California Kingsnake Feeding help

On August 18th our baby California Kingsnake arrived, we set her in her enclosure (40 gallon but we have Alot of stuff inside for her) the warm side is around 87 and the cool side is 78-75. We have tried feeding her frozen mice 3 times without luck, each time she went up to the mouse and put her face on it but did not strike, the first time I thought she didnt strike from the tongs so the next time I left it inside for a couple of hours, she had slithered over the mouth after viewing it and the third time (last night) we decided to leave the mouse in overnight and I was really hoping she would go after it and it would be gone in the morning, but im leaving it inside for a bit longer since we have a cam on her it showed she was asleep in the same spot the entire night so I think she might not even know theres a mouse there but im wondering if anyone has any ideas of how to get her to eat? She wanders around alot doing frequent tongue flicks so I would figure that she is hungry. Should I try live or scenting? and how would I scent it, ik that they are lizard eaters so im thinking of scenting it with an anole but how would I do that? Please I just want to get her to eat

You're almost definitely to have to put her in a smaller enclosure for a while.

What size mice are you offering?
How are you heating the mice?

Kings are typically garbage disposals. I've never had any difficulty getting a King to eat

We have a 20 gallon in the garage that I could set up, is that a good size?
I am offering her pinky mice and im heating it by getting warm water and having the pinky in a plastic bag and having it in the water then I touch the pinky through the bag to see if its thawed yet and then replacing the water with warmer water just to make sure the pinky is nice and warm.

A twenty gallon is definitely better.

Ok it sounds like you're doing everything right. Pinkies can be tricky because they a) cool so fast sometimes they aren't recognized as prey and b) can start to cook since they're so small.

How often are you offering food?
Are you handling the snake at all?

I have offered her food every 4 days and ive only held her once since she came here and that was because the tank we bought the owner had not told us about a hole in it but thats all patched up now, she had escaped the day we got her so that was a huge panic moment lol.
And ya, when I put the pinky into the warm water and then take them out mins later its cooled down alot.
we also have towels surrounding the tank to make her feel more secure.
I have started setting up her new enclosure, once I have it set up and shes in how long should I wait to try to feed her again?

Ok, awesome, make sure that enclosure is 100% escape proof. Kings are fantastic escape artists, and at that size they can fit almost anywhere.

As for feeding I don't see a problem with every 4 days, but I might switch to every 5. Then once she's eating feed every 5 for a while.

After the enclosure switch I'd wait at least 3 days to offer, but if you're feeling lucky before that it won't hurt to offer.

Try to be consistent with how you offer as well. Feed after dark. I would try offering on tongs a few times, reheating as needed, focusing on the head. If after a few tries you have no luck try heating once more and leaving it overnight.

Is the enclosure in a quiet, low traffic area of the house? Sometimes too much traffic can stress them out.

When you thaw the pinkies, thaw in COOL water...& Do NOT warm them up, that only helps them spoil! King snakes are not BPs...they don't care about the temperature,
but they do respond to odors. Did you ask the source of your snake if it had EVER been fed f/t? It was likely only fed live pinkies, & since pinkies don't have a lot of scent
to begin with, especially after being thawed, use your feed tongs to pinch-damage the pinkie's nose a little...that will release a little more scent. Try offering late at night
in dim lighting...wiggle the pinkie slightly from tongs to see if the snake will grab it. If not, leave it overnight.

Another thing: while a 40 gal. tank is huge for a king snake, it doesn't have the negative impact on colubrids* like your baby king, as it would on a BP, but changing cages & the escape were both set-backs in terms of your snake "settling in" (relaxing enough to eat). Don't offer too often (not more than every 4-5 days for hatchling) as that too adds stress. Don't handle a new or non-feeding snake either. (as you already seem to know) *Colubrids like your king snake are active hunters...not ambush-predators like BPs are...that's why they're less bothered by larger tanks. As Craig said though, make SURE it's securely closed.

What pet stores often do may work well for you & this snake until it settles in better: put the thawed pinky and the snake into a paper bag* (or smaller vented container) & leave for a few hours in the evening or overnight (depends on how late you stay up). Many baby colubrids will eat this way. Whatever you do, don't keep checking on it- it most likely needs privacy for at least 4 hours. *If you use a paper bag, you can put a few pin-holes in the paper for ventilation, and fold the top down several times, then use a binder clip (or something similar) to clip it securely shut.

Ya, I found the spot she got out of and wonder how she got out, it was a tiny hole where im guessing your supposed to put a wire through.
So when she starts eating ill switch to trying every 5
3 days seems like enough, once I finish her new enclosure ill make sure shes left alone.
When the 3 days have passed ill try feeding her after dark like you said and if she does not take it ill heat it again and leave it overnight.

But a problem also might be that the tank is near in area where alot of people talk so that could be stressing her out also, with the new tank ill put it in an area in the house where no one goes to make sure stress is at a minimum.

Is there any kind of trick to using tongs? Like do I have to move the pinky around in a certain type of way

The place I bought the snake from had said that she was eating f/t, ill try pinching the nose of the pinky and if not luck ill try the paper bag trick and see if that works.
Ill also still downsize the tank cause it might be causing her stress from being so big and her being so small (They said shes about 6 weeks old)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cypris1

The place I bought the snake from had said that she was eating f/t, ill try pinching the nose of the pinky and if not luck ill try the paper bag trick and see if that works.
Ill also still downsize the tank cause it might be causing her stress from being so big and her being so small (They said shes about 6 weeks old)

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Yes, it matters a lot right now if her tank is located in "grand central station". It should be in a quiet area...distractions just prevent her from calming down...y'all are SCARY. ;) Talking & other activity can be felt as vibrations on the glass...even WE can feel it, we just don't think about trying it- try it if you don't believe me.

And again, do not heat her pinkies...they thaw very fast in cool water...like 10 minutes at the most. Snakes eat RAW food, not cooked, & not spoiled (-usually). :rolleyes:

BTW, I don't currently keep any kings, but I've kept various kinds in the past, also bred & sold some kinds later. One of my first snakes (& the first to escape) was a hatchling albino Cal king.

So I was going to put her in the 20 gallon but I just realized that its a tank made for fish so instead of being wide its tall, the water bowl does not even fit. Is there a way to divide the tank so that its smaller? or should I just not worry about the tank size. I will be moving the tank into a quiet room so people wont scare her.

I would NOT change tanks, but move the tank she's in to a quieter location. A new tank will only ADD stress...not what she needs right now. As long as she has warm &
cool side hides, & safe stuff to hide under (or in), she's fine where she is. Snakes grow up in the great outdoors just fine, don't forget that. BPs are ambush predators,
meaning they tend to stay put (even in the wild), but king snakes are active hunters...the space won't hurt at all, a large tank is nothing compared to the real world. :snake:

Ok I wont change it, ill just move the tank shes in into a quiet place.
If she does not eat next time I try, should I try scenting with an anole? And if so how would I do that
Also would a heat lamp stress her out also, she had a heat lamp and a heat mat with a thermostat, the heat lamp bulb just broke today so atm she does not have the lamp

Youre definitely in good hands with Bogertophis.

I know my Kings pretty well, but she's extremely knowledgeable with colubrids. I humbly defer to Bogertophis with all things colubrid.

Good luck, please keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by Cypris1

Ok I wont change it, ill just move the tank shes in into a quiet place.
If she does not eat next time I try, should I try scenting with an anole? And if so how would I do that
Also would a heat lamp stress her out also, she had a heat lamp and a heat mat with a thermostat, the heat lamp bulb just broke today so atm she does not have the lamp

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No anoles...she ate pinkies before...try the "bag overnight" technique & don't get ahead of yourself. ;) She may or may not like anoles, but if she prefers them, you'd have to keep supplying them. :( AND, anoles are closer relatives to snakes than mice are, so there's more harmful pathogens & parasites they can GIVE to your snake...& then you'd end up with a health issue needing treatment. Never a good idea...best avoided.

What are you using for a substrate, by the way? Anything she can actually burrow into? I recommend either clean paper shreds (I shred my un-needed bills & business papers) or Carefresh 'Natural' (they can tunnel into it & it will partly retain the holes they make...they feel VERY secure in it). I use a mixture of paper shreds + Carefresh for many of my snakes (mostly colubrids).

She does NOT need a lamp...few snakes like being under a spotlight (with exceptions like coachwhips & other diurnal racers that enjoy sunshine) & this might be your problem! If your house is cold in winter & you need the extra warmth, use a red or black incandescent bulb OR a CHE (no light) on a dimmer to add the warmth, but right now, she only likely needs the UTH.

What kind of hides are in there? Does she use them? If they're too big & open, they don't offer a sense of security & won't help the snake much. You can fix this easily by crumpling a paper towel & stuffing it in there so it's cozy & just big enough for the snake to feel safe. Small snakes want small hides...you can also use small clean cardboard boxes with a doorway cut into it for now...when it's dirty, toss & replace it. They also enjoy the cardboard tubes from a roll of paper towels...flatten it first for such a tiny snake, & partly bury it in the substrate for a tunnel. Don't worry about how much you can watch the snake for now...it's more important that the snake is comfortable, & when she is, she'll get braver & you'll see a lot more of her. Cal kings usually love to eat & they're always looking for more food...like a teenager in a snake's body, lol. ;)

no anoles, ok. I will try the bag thing, and when I was thinking of anoles I knew about the parasites but was not sure if they could be transfered but now I know, which is good.

I am using aspen shaving as bedding, ive heard its good, I can see alot of tunnels that she has dug for herself inside lol rly cute when you just see their head poking out of the ground.

And for the light, im hoping that is what the problem was so she eats lol, I had read places that said it was ok and other who said it wasn't to its good to know that now.

The hides might also be a problem, theres a dug out one under the water so that ones nice and small and the one next to it is small but the 2 on the left are pretty big, one of them is huge so I gotta definitely stuff that one but really I should just do the small cardboard box cause that ones to big and the other one is also large so I have to stuff that one also, when I get more ill put the cardboard tube inside. I do see her go into all of the hides, even the big one just less often than the others.

From the information you've just added, I suspect that the quieter location along with a better sense of security (smaller hides & no light) might be all she needs to relax-
I hope so. It's always hard to advise without seeing someone's set-up but I think we've tracked down your issues. And remember not to handle any snake until they're
eating on a regular basis...preferably at least 3 times (at normal intervals for the age/size). I'm not personally a fan of aspen but it's ok...she can burrow into it & yes, it's
very cute when they peek out. :D Try to imagine being that tiny & seeing unknown giants hanging around outside your tiny home...would YOU feel safe enough to stop
to eat? or would you just focus on hiding? :D

Just another suggestion to keep in mind...not saying you need to buy one, but there's a reason that king & milk snakes love these, & yes, I used to use these for mine.

https://beanfarm.com/collections/bedding-and-cage/products/herpatat-hide-out-small

It's not a very good picture with only one view, but basically it's a square flattened box shape, with an entrance hole in one corner, and a depression to hold the water
dish securely so it can't flip; the weight of the water bowl holds the hide in place, and the front part (near the water bowl) slopes. Snakes basically feel like they're going underground...and shy feeders can feel secure when they peek up from the hole & grab f/t prey left on top nearby. You can do the same thing with a disposable box lid &
push it partly into the substrate. You can just cut a tight hole for the water bowl (so it sits IN the "hide") or skip the water bowl & put it elsewhere. Just saying, king & milk snakes love feeling like they have a "basement" to duck into. ;)

One other thing: snakes don't see well, & they LEARN their way around. In the wild, their lives depend on knowing where to quickly hide to escape a predator, so set up the cage but try not to keep changing it for a while, especially while your snake isn't eating. Once they're eating steady, it's not a big deal to make some changes, but for now she needs to feel safe. :snake:

Ya im really hoping the new area will make her feel more secure
And I will not be holding her for the 3 feeding or more just to make sure shes ok
lol and if I saw giants outside I would run into a secure place to hide as fast as I could

If youd like I could take down one of the towels for 1 sec to get a pic of the tank, I have not moved it yet cause its to heavy for me (It would be moved upstairs and im to weak lol but I should be able to have it there soon)


And that herpatat seems like a really good idea! I can understand how they would enjoy it, im probably going to get that and if I cant ill make it!:D

Ill make sure not to change her tank so she can remember where everything is

No, leave the towel...I don't need a pic of the tank and I think you'll get this figured out soon enough. King snakes are cute, & usually pretty easy snakes to keep, once
you get their needs figured out.

Glad you're waiting for help with the tank...40 gal. tanks ARE hard to move & not something you want to drop or get hurt trying to move by yourself...I have quite a few
of them, lol. And much bigger tanks too. I'm a glass tank fan all the way.

BTW, the Bean Farm has a larger size of 'herpatat' and they also have other good basic black plastic hides too. Lots of good supplies, they're one of several reliable
online companies, and Reptile Basics is another one, but I don't recall them ever having any hides like the 'herpatat'.

My king has always been an extremely shy feeder, which is kind of odd for a king snake. I have to leave the f/t feeders on top of her hide and walk away, she'll only eat in privacy. It's been 9 years and she's always been this way (she also likes to hide under her water bowl which is way too small to actually hide under haha).

I've used the brown bag technique for non-feeding hatchling corn snakes and it is a great trick.
OP, I hope with the great advice you're getting that your lil one will be chowing down in no time.

ah ok, I hope I figure it out soon, months of research does not compare to experience! Experience is always the best way to learn lol

Im not sure how anyone is able to move any tank bigger than a 40, especially if you have the tank stuff inside, and ya glass is great

oooo ya think I should get the larger size or the small? And ya I browsed through their stuff and I saw ALot of good things there, untill now I had never heard of Beanfarm or reptile basics and they both seem like really good places to buy things



And thanks AbsoluteApril! Im 100% going to be trying the brown bag technique

Your snake would prefer the small one now, but she'll grow into the large one, & you could just get the large one & "stuff it" for now. I mean that nicely of course, lol. :D

Both companies are excellent sources to know about...it's why we share info on forums like this. It's nice to shop "local" but you can't always find such things locally.

Oh, btw...using the "paper bag" feeding trick...always leave the bag IN the SECURE tank...just in case. Don't trust paper or binder clips that far...baby kings are way too hard to find when loose in your house, lol. (I once had one that got loose, & I found her in my closet, in the toe of a boot. The search was not easy or fun...)

Ill probably get the big one and just "stuff it" lol

Ya its nice to get things local but you cant always get the best things when its local

Thanks for telling me! I would not have thought to put the bag also into her tank, ive already learned how good of escape artists they are lol, im not sure how you were able to find her in a boot, it would have prob taken forever to check all the shoes if you had alot of them in there and when I lost my snake I went into pure panic mode lol but luckily I found her behind my china hutch, tad hard to get to her but I was so relieved that she was ok since I have 5 cats and she was heading straight tword the hunter one

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Originally Posted by Cypris1

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Thanks for telling me! I would not have thought to put the bag also into her tank, ive already learned how good of escape artists they are lol, im not sure how you were able to find her in a boot, it would have prob taken forever to check all the shoes if you had alot of them in there and when I lost my snake I went into pure panic mode lol but luckily I found her behind my china hutch, tad hard to get to her but I was so relieved that she was ok since I have 5 cats and she was heading straight tword the hunter one

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Yikes, that sounds like it was a very close call! :hokitty: King snakes are escape artists, & given a few hours, would likely find their way out of the bottom flaps of the bag. They have nothing better to do, so they're very persistent. Also, a bag or any container with a little snake in would have just enough sound or movement that your cats might "help" with her escape...:O so they're always safer locked in the main tank. ;)
I've had many years of practice -learning the hard way. :rofl:I once had an adult bull snake escape from a "very secure side container" when I got too sleepy to finish cleaning her cage one night. She turned up SIX MONTHS later, after hibernating from mid-November to mid-May in an inaccessible space under a kitchen cupboard...happily she was fine & lived happily ever after...but she gave me a LOT of guilt & anxious but hopeless searching until then.

It is very likely they would find a way out of the bag, they are incredibly smart, mine will climb my thermostats cord and than push her body against it to try to have enough room to squeeze out, it looks really cool the way they climb also but going down she just falls, rip.


Ah man idk what I would do if that happened to me, snakes are so strong and they could break out of anywhere, its a great thing that snakes are able to go a long time without food and still be ok, glad that you found her!

That albino cal-king that escaped into my boot: it was the store-bought cage design that failed...I locked the sliding screen top with the provided peg, but there was "just barely enough" space (like maybe a quarter inch?) of wiggle room in the track when it was locked shut, & I never DREAMED that a tiny hatchling king snake would have the persistence to not only force her way into it, but to then follow it all the way around to the opening where the side of the top was pushed out. From that time on, I began making my own screen tops for all my glass tanks. And yes, I've kept plenty of climbers like yours too, lol...

The bull snake: I meant to say "brumation" but you know what I meant. It was the normal time of year for her to take "a long winter's nap" & under the kitchen cupboards it was chilly enough, but I couldn't see her to verify my suspicions...I just had to wait until one night in May I was walking thru my kitchen & there she was on the kitchen floor, having just emerged...looking for food & water and not a bit "worse for wear"! What a snake! :bow: Snakes like BPs would have gotten too cold & gotten sick, most likely...but bull snakes are tough serpents, it was nothing for her. :D Whew...and her initial escape took a lot of strength & determination...I sure under-estimated her.

ah yes... design fails, lol. I would have thought that if smth said "This will lock!" I would have believed it would be safe but obviously from both or our experience thats not the case lol. Im surprised she was able to squeeze through such a tiny gap! Snakes have so much determination its insane lol, I would not trust myself to try to make a screen top myself, plus I think the screen other than that hole is well made, theirs a lock on each of the corners but you can push it up with enough strength but the gap is Hopefully to small to fit though lol.


hehe a beautiful winters nap under your kitchen cupboards, im guessing you were very surprised when you went to your kitchen finding a snake on your floor, its a good thing she decided she was hungry lol, one nice snake! Im not sure if a BP would be ok since they need certain temps, prob feels nice being able to find your snake after such a long time of her missing:D

I tried to feed her again last night and she still goes up to the mouse and leaves it, I put her in a deli cup with the pinky to see if she takes it then. And of course Right after I do that the person I bought the snake from said to feed her a live pinky. Feeling kinda stupid for not waiting for a response befor stressing her out by putting her into the deli.


How long will it take for her to de-stress from being put in the deli? Cause I feeling really bad for putting her in it.... shes still in it atm not sure how much longer I will wait to take her out since I really want her to eat since she is starting to loose weight, I never weighed her but I can tell shes getting thinner.

omg im so happy rn



since she was in a deli I decided to put her tank upstairs since it wont move her around so I took the deli out and put it in a safe spot, put the tank upstairs, then once I had the tank setup again-I had not looked in the deli yet so when I took the towel off I was so happy that there was no pinky left :D I 100% thought she was going to die because of me but im so happy that she will be ok!!!!

Thank you SO MUCH I would not have gotten her to eat without you!

:D

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Originally Posted by Cypris1

omg im so happy rn



since she was in a deli I decided to put her tank upstairs since it wont move her around so I took the deli out and put it in a safe spot, put the tank upstairs, then once I had the tank setup again-I had not looked in the deli yet so when I took the towel off I was so happy that there was no pinky left :D I 100% thought she was going to die because of me but im so happy that she will be ok!!!!

Thank you SO MUCH I would not have gotten her to eat without you!

:D

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I know just how you feel! :D :carrot::pinkele::dance::banana::D Hopefully, it will get easier now. Snakes often need some patience & time to settle in. They don't understand "our strange world", lol.

Awesome news!!!!

I don't think you'll have much difficulty keeping her eating. Kings are notorious garbage disposals. Before my boy passed away I often joked he'd eat a slice of pizza if I dangled it in front of him....as long as it's meat lovers :rofl:

Keep up the great work!! Your dedication shows you care and your snake is in good hands. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Awesome news!!!!

I don't think you'll have much difficulty keeping her eating. Kings are notorious garbage disposals. Before my boy passed away I often joked he'd eat a slice of pizza if I dangled it in front of him....as long as it's meat lovers :rofl:

Keep up the great work!! Your dedication shows you care and your snake is in good hands. :gj:

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That’s so true .. I have a King who will eat mouse / rat tails and day old chick wings and feet !!


Also whilst Kings May not have heat pits mine really do go absolutely crazy when I give the mouse a quick blast with the hairdryer .. I’ve always presumed it was simply the ‘enhanced’ aroma :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Continued ...


A while back I dangled a warm mouse in front of my Cali King and it lunged at but missed the mouse and grabbed the stainless steel water dish and was throwing it around the viv !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Continued ...


A while back I dangled a warm mouse in front of my Cali King and it lunged at but missed the mouse and grabbed the stainless steel water dish and was throwing it around the viv !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Continued ...


A while back I dangled a warm mouse in front of my Cali King and it lunged at but missed the mouse and grabbed the stainless steel water dish and was throwing it around the viv !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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Sounds like a king to me!!! Hahahahahaha.

Sorry to be a downer but..


I feel stupid. So very stupid.




I was going to put another pinky inside for her so I took the deli out of the tank and noticed there was something yellow on the paper towel... I lifted it and I was horrified about what I saw, the pinky I thought she ate. It was half way decomposed and I immediately started crying. I thought I did it and could get her to eat but I thought wrong. I had thought she ate it cause when I opened the deli I saw her and 0 pinky, I had put the paper towel so tightly in there I didnt even think she would be able to push it under it. Another reason I thought she ate it was because around 24-48 hours after she was out of the deli I smelled a bad smell so I thought she had used the bathroom, but really it was a rotting corpse. I didnt want to lift the paper towel when she first was let out because I was scared that if she saw me she would regurgitate.

Im not sure what im going to do now. Im not sure how long she can go without eating, I picked up pinkys from a different place this time since a worker at the other place where I was getting them from told me that their workers sometimes leave the freezer open and to buy it from somewhere else, I did and now that ones in there and theres still 0 interest so far.

Ive done everything people have told me, I have the correct temps, lots of hides and clutter, the hides have paper towels in them, no heat light to stress her, in a room no one goes to, leaving the pinky to thaw naturally then using a hair dryer to enhance smell, leaving overnight, and deli.

Im confused as to what im doing wrong???

OK, well that took guts to admit...sorry she still refused (re-read my post #7...stop heating the pinkies!). Anyway, it's likely they lied to you & she's only been fed LIVE
pinkies, so for now, try a live one. When she eats them consistently several times, only then try offering 2 pinkies, first the live one, & then a second f/t one, prepared
as I previously told you. This is what it takes sometimes for snakes to "make the connection" and after she eats several times, she'll probably be able to eat 2 pinkies as
long as they're small ones. This is also how you teach them to just take f/t only. Keep at it, your tiny snake has been thru a lot...keep the stress low & DO NOT HANDLE.
Little baby colubrids need to eat & grow for a while first...Don't give up. :snake:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

OK, well that took guts to admit...sorry she still refused (re-read my post #7...stop heating the pinkies!). Anyway, it's likely they lied to you & she's only been fed LIVE
pinkies, so for now, try a live one. When she eats them consistently several times, only then try offering 2 pinkies, first the live one, & then a second f/t one, prepared
as I previously told you. This is what it takes sometimes for snakes to "make the connection" and after she eats several times, she'll probably be able to eat 2 pinkies as
long as they're small ones. This is also how you teach them to just take f/t only. Keep at it, your tiny snake has been thru a lot...keep the stress low & DO NOT HANDLE.
Little baby colubrids need to eat & grow for a while first...Don't give up. :snake:

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sorry I completely forgot to not heat the pinkys, about 5 people on a different forums told me that their kings went crazy for pinkys that where slightly heated with a hairdryer. Ill make sure to Only thaw naturally and no heat. When I go to a pet store again ill pick up a live pinky, I have not held her at all, only when I was putting her in the deli which was probably really stressful for her. When I try feeding her live do I put her in the deli again or just leave the pinky in the tank on a "platter", not sure if its a good idea for the deli again since she hated it so much. And when she eats them consistently 7 times ill then do the 2 pinkies.

By the way, now you know the difference between the smell of snake feces and the aroma of a rotting dead mouse; let's hope you don't add the fragrance of snake
regurgitation to your repertoire any time soon. We all learn a lot of things when keeping snakes...now you also know to check for rejected food hiding in the cage. ;)

She does NEED to be eating, but don't offer "too often" (not more often than every 4-5 days), as that only adds stress when she still hasn't eaten. And once she eats,
she needs time to digest, so for pinkies, you still don't want to feed more often than 4-5 days, & larger prey takes even longer to digest. It's so important that you don't
cause her to regurgitate (from eating again too soon, before the first item is digested) once she does finally eat for you. And btw, "think positive"...:snake:

By now you're wondering what you've gotten yourself into & is this really fun? Snakes can be hard at first, especially an inexperienced snake for an inexperienced owner.
It does get easier, & we all had to learn things "the hard way". Especially those of us that have been doing this since before there was an internet for asking questions. ;)

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Originally Posted by Cypris1

sorry I completely forgot to not heat the pinkys, about 5 people on a different forums told me that their kings went crazy for pinkys that where slightly heated with a hairdryer. Ill make sure to Only thaw naturally and no heat. When I go to a pet store again ill pick up a live pinky, I have not held her at all, only when I was putting her in the deli which was probably really stressful for her. When I try feeding her live do I put her in the deli again or just leave the pinky in the tank on a "platter", not sure if its a good idea for the deli again since she hated it so much. And when she eats them consistently 7 times ill then do the 2 pinkies.

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Yes, deli cups are NOT ideal...they are too cramped & a snake will still feel exposed...there's no privacy, which is WHY I suggested a paper bag. ;)
(Future reference: Don't heat the f/t pinkies...just thaw in cool water & pinch-damage the nose to release more scent.)

:snake: DO try a live one next...that's likely what she's looking for. And you can do one of 2 ways, to make sure she focuses on it: (1) either put her in a closed paper bag with it (a couple pin-holes for air, secure the top closed & leave bag in her tank over-night or until you hear the pinkie squeak to tell you she's eating...then IF you hear that, DO NOT DISTURB for at least 60 minutes...plenty of time for her to get it swallowed, otherwise if you barge in, she'll panic & spit it out & may refuse to eat it. Got that?) If you want, crumple half a paper towel to put in the bag too, just for a little traction & sense of security...she should have no trouble hunting the pinkie.

OR (2) put the live pinkie in a small flat bottom bowl (about 5-6" wide) that's too heavy for the snake to tip over, and leave the bowl in her cage overnight. It can help to put the bowl under her cool-side hide (take the paper stuffing out to make room). Your snake will feel braver being under cover, and braver by being able to look down on the pinkie in the bowl for a while while she gets up the nerve to pounce. The bowl should be deep enough (2") so the pinkie cannot escape...you don't want to need to search the cage for it.

Thaw pinkies IN cool water for about 10 minutes at most...they thaw fast. DO NOT let them sit out to thaw...they spoil that way. King snakes aren't known for caring much, but maybe you've got one that does care, especially since she's probably only had live so far.

Good plan on feeding live about 7 times before trying f/t & 2 pinks at one sitting. You'll get this...OK?

When I did the deli cup I put a towel over it to make her hopefully feel more secure but I will go out and get paper bags, I will probably try the bowl one first as to not stress her from grabbing her. If I hear squeaks I make sure to leave for awile. When I had put the pinky into the deli I had pinched the nose Alot and I partly cut open the head (ew) but I think the thing that stressed her out alot was me opening the deli back up since I didnt know the deli did not fit into the little opening gate thing so I had to partly squeeze the deli to get it in the tank but also that fact that it was prob shaky going up the stairs in the deli.

Ok ill thaw the pinkies in cool water for around 10 mins, and have the plan of 7 live then the 2.

Also im trying not to get my hopes up but the pinky that I left in there this morning is gone, I thought it fell off the thing I put it on but when I came home and went to take it out it was not there and there was a snake hole. Im guessing its just under smth and I just cant see it but im having high hopes since these pinkys looked alot better than the other ones I had bought first, the first ones that I had bought where almost a greyish pink with no red at all (no red in belly), the new ones are pink with red and thats how ive seen them look for others so I think their better ones. Again, I doubt she ate it but im hoping.

by the way, can she smell me in the same room? Shes in my bedroom and I ovi sleep in there, could my smell be scaring her? I never go in my room unless im going to bed so theres no noise from me but can she smell me and get scared? Im thinking about grabbing a sleeping bag and sleeping outside my room.

Don't worry about sleeping in the same room. I sure hope she took the pinky from this morning...it really does sound like those other pinkies were spoiled, plus being
thawed & overly warmed, yuck. Yes, try the "bowl" thing first- she'll find the live pinkie by scent just fine...UNLESS she actually ATE the f/t pink from this morning. IF
she did, don't switch to live, just keep her on f/t pinks...ok? So give the cage a thorough check before you get any live pinks. Yes, it's hard to do without stressing her
some, do the best you can...keeping my fingers crossed that she ate & can stay on f/t pinks. :gj: (I've been known to leave pinkies on a large jar lid or plastic top.)

Next time I see them I should thank the worker who admitted not to buy their mice.

The bowl way does seem like a much easier way than the bag since I ovi dont have to put her in smth.
If she did eat the pinky from yesterday ill make sure she stays on f/t and if she did that really will show that the other pinkys had gone bad.

I had left the pinky on the edge of her water bowl where I see her slither alot and hide under so maybe she liked it there better, thats If she ate it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cypris1

Next time I see them I should thank the worker who admitted not to buy their mice.

The bowl way does seem like a much easier way than the bag since I ovi dont have to put her in smth.
If she did eat the pinky from yesterday ill make sure she stays on f/t and if she did that really will show that the other pinkys had gone bad.

I had left the pinky on the edge of her water bowl where I see her slither alot and hide under so maybe she liked it there better, thats If she ate it

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The bowl idea works better for live pinks, because they move around and also have more scent- you don't want them roaming off, or the snake to eat substrate along with the pinkie when they finally catch it. It does also help you know for sure they ate...you need to know that no matter if f/t or live. That's why it's a good idea to feed on a "plate" of some kind (for f/t)...like on a flat plastic food storage top...if the f/t is gone, you can be pretty sure they ate, since they don't normally drag it very far & then leave it. But you should make sure this time since your snake hasn't eaten in a while, & you also want to know about the quality of the food you have compared to what you got before. (Yes, do thank the worker, but make sure it's not in front of their boss or they might get fired.) You also really need to know what's working, if she did eat it this time, so look gently but LOOK.

BTW, the only time a frozen mouse might be grey is if they're from black mice, but pinkies should still be pink...it's only when they grow a few days (just before their hair starts to come in) that the large pinks/small fuzzies might look gray (& not be spoiled or too old).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

The bowl idea works better for live pinks, because they move around and also have more scent- you don't want them roaming off, or the snake to eat substrate along with the pinkie when they finally catch it. It does also help you know for sure they ate...you need to know that no matter if f/t or live. That's why it's a good idea to feed on a "plate" of some kind (for f/t)...like on a flat plastic food storage top...if the f/t is gone, you can be pretty sure they ate, since they don't normally drag it very far & then leave it. But you should make sure this time since your snake hasn't eaten in a while, & you also want to know about the quality of the food you have compared to what you got before. (Yes, do thank the worker, but make sure it's not in front of their boss or they might get fired.) You also really need to know what's working, if she did eat it this time, so look gently but LOOK.

BTW, the only time a frozen mouse might be grey is if they're from black mice, but pinkies should still be pink...it's only when they grow a few days (just before their hair starts to come in) that the large pinks/small fuzzies might look gray (& not be spoiled or too old).

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Ok so live in the bowl, and make sure they cant escape. When I was feeding her the first few times I used a Tupperware lid to put the pinky on. And ill make sure that theres no other workers when I see the worker again.

I kinda think she did eat that f/t pinky from yesterday but I might just be blind, I took a quick peak and saw nothing on the floor. And im pretty sure snakes have a lower metabolism after they eat and are hiding, thats whats shes dong, I only saw her come out once today then she went into a hide and has not come out yet and befor she possibly ate she was moving around fast but today she was moving slowly and that might be from eating. I still would need to check the other side of the water bowl to make sure the pinkys not there but if she was looking at me and I didnt know I did not want to scare her to much.

If she did eat how long should it take her to digest it? Many said 3-4 days but some said 1-2 days when I searched it up

Nvm it was on the other side of the water bowl.... ):

Live it is then, what day should I put the live pinky in and at what time?

Rats! Too bad she didn't eat that pinky. Might wait a day or 2 at most...she really needs to eat. Feed at night, just before lights out, for best results.

Most snakes can digest a pinky real fast...a day or two, BUT that totally depends on the temperatures they have...warmer = faster digestion. They can't make their own
body heat, that's why we have to provide warmth in their tank. Anyway, you never want to feed snakes too quickly again after they eat...that's why they said wait at least
3-4 days after a pinky, & allow more time still when bigger (more mature) prey is fed.

Yes, a Tupperware lid is perfect to leave f/t prey on, & you could put that under the hide (just like the bowl with a live pinky). Good luck...

Or if you know she's in a particular hide, you can leave the pinkie (live in bowl or f/t on "plate") just outside the doorway of the hide, where she'll likely feel safe
enough after lights out to reach out & grab it to eat inside her hide. Getting a shy snake to feed is mostly a matter of empathy...learning to think like a snake, lol.
Once she gets a taste of eating, she'll like how she feels, more energetic, & she'll be craving food again quickly. She needs to get beyond this slump of refusing to eat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Rats! Too bad she didn't eat that pinky. Might wait a day or 2 at most...she really needs to eat. Feed at night, just before lights out, for best results.

Most snakes can digest a pinky real fast...a day or two, BUT that totally depends on the temperatures they have...warmer = faster digestion. They can't make their own
body heat, that's why we have to provide warmth in their tank. Anyway, you never want to feed snakes too quickly again after they eat...that's why they said wait at least
3-4 days after a pinky, & allow more time still when bigger (more mature) prey is fed.

Yes, a Tupperware lid is perfect to leave f/t prey on, & you could put that under the hide (just like the bowl with a live pinky). Good luck...

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2 days? seems a bit short but ok. Ok ill feed her at night just before lights out. Also where should I get the live pinky from?


Ok warmer=faster digestion. And 3-4 days between each feeding.


Also I screenshoted some pics from my cam that show her and the enclosure, not sure if the video will work but it shows her climbing the cord from the thermostat. Im not sure if shes under weight or not (the water is low in theses pic cause I was waiting for her to go into a hide so I dont scare her) but ill let you see since I cant tell. The white blobs are paper towels that she climbs under and over.

https://r4---sn-hp57knz6.googlevideo...FSRPB5yf3G6Q==

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