Dwarf/Super Dwarf Retic or Boa

I currently have 3 ball pythons and a corn snake. Due to space constraints (and my spouse) I will probably only get one more snake to round out my collection. I would like it to be a larger breed than what I currently have but not so big that it can’t live in a 6 x 2 enclosure as an adult. (I currently have an empty 6 x 2 boaphile I picked up on Craigslist)

The two options I am currently considering are a Dwarf Retic or a Boa (either bci or bcc). Does any one have any experience with both species that could offer some opinions on them. My main concerns are temperament and size. I want something large enough to be impressive but not so large that it can’t live happily in a 6 x 2.

i appreciate everyone’s feedback.

Boa of any sort over a retic 1000% any and every day. Read some threads by myself, Gio, and a few others on here about our retic experiences. Not to say that all retics are bad, but over the last two years I have found boas and carpet pythons to be infinitely more enjoyable and in countless different ways.

Some boas, and especially specific locality BCC animals like pucallpa Peruvians could outgrow a 6’ cage. But for all practical intents and purposes, a 6’x2’ will likely be plenty for most average sized boas.

Bonus, they use the bathroom far less than retics, are much slower growing, easier to handle/slower moving, and probably on average have a reputation for a better temperament.

I’ve got a Pokigron Suriname red tail and an Argentine Boa and can’t get enough of either of them.


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I agree with jmcrook about the boa. I've never owned a retic (and have no desire) but I do have boas and I absolutely love them. And if you have a 6x2 but are leaning more towards the dwarf retic because that's what tickles your fancy, then have you considered a carpet python instead? They're more active than a boa is and great to handle. An ij or a jungle would do great in a 6x2. Just food for thought. Good luck in your decision!

Sounds like you want a boa.

Either a boa or a high-percentage FEMALE SD retic.

While I like my retics, I spend more time enjoying my boas.

Also I'd consider a Dumerils boa, as they can get larger than BI but are very docile and easy to deal with despite their size.

A carpet python is another excellent option.

Boa!

A 6X2' will easily house a female BI (or a male BI for sure).

BI's are a little more forgiving in terms of husbandry than most BC's and you can get any color/pattern you want!

I have 2 BI's and one BC and love them all. They have great temperaments and if you can keep BP's happy, you won't have an issue with husbandry.

I've heard mixed things on Retics and have no desire to own one.

Boas are great snakes. As you said, impressive size, but manageable and generally puppy dogs when out.

Unlike your corn snake and BP's, you definitely want to hook train a boa though. They have a crazy strong food response.

Any questions on breeders, hook training, picking one out, husbandry, etc. just ask. Lots of good boa peeps on here.

P.S. I have a Carpet Python as well and he's a great display snake as well as having a great temperament. If I had to choose, I would pick a boa as a last snake over a CP. However, not a bad suggestion to consider a CP. However, with a CP you will want height in that 6X2' which may or may not be an option for you.

I don’t have either but I’ve done a lot of research on both, and it hasn’t been mentioned that unless u are diving deep into ur pockets and getting a true sd retic then it’s very possible that it will get pretty big, you would need to see pics, age, and size of the parents to have a guess at how big it may be. And just because the parents are smaller doesn’t mean all the babies will be that small too. If u can’t go above a6x2 then that might be an issue. also my option is that relics need and love to climb when they are younger.

basically I’m saying get a boa and be happy lol

Boa all the way!

Everyone,
Thanks for all of the responses. I was leaning towards a boa actually and I think this pretty much confirms that’s what I should be looking at. I don’t know much about carpet pythons but I may do a little research on them as well.

I will be looking for boa breeders to talk to in or around Michigan if anyone has any recommendations.

Thanks again!

I'd recommend going with a SD retic.

I will chime in and say I agree you should look into Carpets. I would definitely look into Bredli Pythons too. They are very close cousins to Carpets.

Personally I enjoy my retics more than my boa. Retics aren't for everyone and will keep you on your toes, there are plenty of horror stories out there. I'd say a good middle of the road medium sized snake is a carpet python.

I’d look into a 50% SD albino cross that has been selectively bred for both size and behavior. You’ll get the best of both worlds!

Good feedback here, and it sounds like you are leaning toward a Boa, which is a great decision.

One other factor touches on a painful subject but I think it needs to be mentioned. There's a pretty big push in multiple states to make it illegal to even own a Retic. I work with legislation and can tell you that this is not a Republican or Democratic issue; politicians in both parties are ignorant about reptile keeping, and are being pressured by vocal and powerful lobbies comprised of individuals and groups who are against reptile keeping in general or who are against keeping large constrictors specifically.

Right now they are using fears about COVID to push these laws using the rationale that restrictions should be based on protecting public health due to viruses that can jump from animals to people. They also use the rare instances of human injury/death caused by large constrictors as a rationale. If these laws are passed, they usually specify Retics, Burms, and Rock Pythons, but in some cases they restrict ownership of any constrictor over a specific length (typically 8'). Generally, Boa owners are not affected.

I try to be realistic and not panic about this stuff, but I have to say that my personal assessment is that we as keepers are facing an uphill battle, and in some cases we are just plain going to lose (as seems to be the situation in Florida and Alabama as I write this).

I just feel that in the current legislative climate, anyone considering their first Retic should do so with their eyes wide open. People who have already owned Retics for awhile usually know what they're up against, but new keepers may not.

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

Good feedback here, and it sounds like you are leaning toward a Boa, which is a great decision.

One other factor touches on a painful subject but I think it needs to be mentioned. There's a pretty big push in multiple states to make it illegal to even own a Retic. I work with legislation and can tell you that this is not a Republican or Democratic issue; politicians in both parties are ignorant about reptile keeping, and are being pressured by vocal and powerful lobbies comprised of individuals and groups who are against reptile keeping in general or who are against keeping large constrictors specifically.

Right now they are using fears about COVID to push these laws using the rationale that restrictions should be based on protecting public health due to viruses that can jump from animals to people. They also use the rare instances of human injury/death caused by large constrictors as a rationale. If these laws are passed, they usually specify Retics, Burms, and Rock Pythons, but in some cases they restrict ownership of any constrictor over a specific length (typically 8'). Generally, Boa owners are not affected.

I try to be realistic and not panic about this stuff, but I have to say that my personal assessment is that we as keepers are facing an uphill battle, and in some cases we are just plain going to lose (as seems to be the situation in Florida and Alabama as I write this).

I just feel that in the current legislative climate, anyone considering their first Retic should do so with their eyes wide open. People who have already owned Retics for awhile usually know what they're up against, but new keepers may not.

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Fantastic reply. Thank you for this.

It's also a good time to join USARK and help support our hobby.

Good question and good answers.

Retics are very fascinating animals. They are like nothing else really. They are very active, very fast and extremely arboreal, especially the SD x dwarf stuff. Even with a 6 X 2 cage unless it is 3 feet tall, I think you'll run into potential pushing issues, especially if the ceiling space is 2 feet or under. Every snake is different, but 3 of us here recently had SD X dwarf males that were not easy animals. JM had a male and a female. His pure SD female went over 10 feet if I'm not mistaken.

Moving up to a retic from royal pythons and a corn snake is a big jump. Retics are an advanced species and though I find them beautiful and interesting, I'm one that does not recommend them.

Here are a few other options that are "impressive" yet far more relaxing to own.


Actually, lets start with my retic.

https://i.imgur.com/a5Kw0hV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/17UXjjp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6NTEiJx.jpg

Ooooops!! That's not him, that's his handy work.
That was a 3.5 year old male, SD X Dwarf X Mainland. He was 9 feet and still growing rapidly.

He was extremely aggressive and that situation came about after tapping him and confidently lifting him out of his cage. The fight was about 10 minutes. He came back up on me after wrapping my left hand and nailed my right hand. Both hands took damage. I was handcuffed somewhat but remained very calm. My family isn't interested in the hobby so I'm a solo handler. Although my wife would readily kill the animal to save my life if needed.

I consider most animals in the 8-9 foot range "doable" but an 8 plus foot retic is a lot different than any other snake at that length. Remember this is my limited experience and the experiences of 2 - 3 others. There are good retics out there, but you MUST put in the extra effort.

He was absolutely beautiful and I do miss having him in a sense, however I'm completely stress free now that he's gone.
https://i.imgur.com/lbKSTOk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v1X7AYW.jpg


Here's his replacement and as Craiga mentioned, a species you may want to consider. Morelia Bredli.
This is my male, Kevin. He's about 2.5 years old in this photo.
https://i.imgur.com/RLUTMua.jpg

More recent here.
https://i.imgur.com/MjdJHBE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yw6PUxA.jpg
He'll be 3 years old mid September. He's around 5 feet long and growing slowly. I'd expect a 7-8 footer once he's topped off.


Speaking of impressive, this $80 coastal carpet mixey/mutt is pushing 9 feet and she's the sweetest animal I have. Super chill, long, and heavy, but not boa heavy. She's a super relaxed handler. This gal was 7 years old in June and she's still growing.
https://i.imgur.com/zxK5W1O.jpg

I love this snake and I'd say she fits into the "impressive" category.
https://i.imgur.com/wFUvNXd.jpg

Then there is my pride and joy, male, Barranquilla, Colombian boa constrictor. He's a pure locality boa bred by Gus Rentfro.

This animal is right at about 7 feet and is 8 years old.
He's heavy and pure muscle. The well kept boas have a shape that is second to none IMO. The lateral compression looks so different compared to most other snakes..
https://i.imgur.com/ag1EUc0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7qLMdlG.jpg

Boas and carpets fit the bill for many of us here. I've never hear a complaint from people who keep them.
https://i.imgur.com/WteooP9.jpg

You have some of these.
https://i.imgur.com/mQxkkgd.jpg

You want to go bigger, so I figured I'd show you what some of the carpets look like and what a nice boa looks like.

The first snake here was that 9 year old royal we bought for our son and she's great.

Long thread, but I hope seeing some photos helped.

Cheers!

Some others options not yet mentioned are the larger north American colubrids such as cribos, indigo's, pines and bull snakes.

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Originally Posted by 67temp

Some others options not yet mentioned are the larger north American colubrids such as cribos, indigo's, pines and bull snakes.

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Man, I’d love to have a Texas indigo snake. But I steadfastly refuse to clean up that much rancid feces from any snake and especially at the frequency that drymarchon evacuate their bowels [emoji90]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Man, I’d love to have a Texas indigo snake. But I steadfastly refuse to clean up that much rancid feces from any snake and especially at the frequency that drymarchon evacuate their bowels [emoji90]


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The eastern indigo I put a deposit on hatched. I've been told their poop is otherworldly. We shall see.

Thanks for taking the time to post the pics. I have some experience around retics & burms (handling in group settings only) but I never considered owning own one until I heard about the dwarf/super dwarfs. I actually ran across your thread with those pics of the injuries awhile back and that is part of why I wanted to ask everyone’s opinions on them before I considered them to seriously.

The carpet pythons are definitely interesting. I haven’t had much exposure to them before now, but I have started my research now.

I am really interested in the Boa’s but it seems like there is a lot to learn about them as they seem to vary a lot in size based on locality and genetics. Right now I think I really want a female Columbian BCI. But I really like the Suriname BCC as well.

If you want to do some thorough research on boas I’d highly suggest The More Complete Boa Constrictor by Vin Russo. Regarded far and wide as the boa bible and I agree.

The Complete Carpet Python by Nick Mutton, Justin Julander, and Benson Morril is another bible on a genus but is out of print. You may be able to find a second hand copy but I’m not sure how much they’re going for. I got mine on eBay last fall for ~$70? They are currently working on The More Complete Carpet Python however.

Researching can be half the fun and you sound very interested in some very cool species. Now that morelia is in the options I’d be hard pressed to suggest a boa or a carpet over one or the other. Both are interesting and rewarding captives in their own very different ways.

Best of luck in your research!

I'm very cautious about recommending youtubers, but I recommend the Brian Boas channel without hesitation. Brian has been breeding locality Boas as well as a couple of morphs for a long time, and is well-respected in the community. I've found his channel to be informative, practical, and drama-free. Below is a link to a video he posted just a couple of days ago about which Boas he thinks are best for keepers who are new to Boas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Tl...jOWgun4IGKCVU4

While both SD retics and Common Boas (Boa Imperators) are very good choices. Each species tend to have their own pros and cons.

For online videos - check out Brian's Boas for info on Boas, & Reach Out Reptiles for info on the Dwarf & Super Dwarf Retics.

Another option to look into is some of the smaller localities of the Boa imperator - such a Hog Island, Crawl cay, Nicaraguans, & Sonoran desert. Also the Long tail or BCLs might be a good choice.