Kenyan sand boa stargazing?

Caught my KSB in this weird position yesterday. I thought it might be star gazing, sign of possible RI or IBD so I scheduled him a vet appointment but the closest appointment was a week and a half out. Does anyone think I should take him in as an emergency? Or can I wait?
image link- https://imgur.com/gallery/335y45M

Saw him doing it again and got a better photo- https://i.imgur.com/tLQs0nz.jpg
I am worried.

My KSB will stand himself up similar to that when he's hungry, but he'll go all the way up the sides of his enclosure and sniff around the screen. I've never noticed him just partially raised like that though.

Can I assume he's staying like he is in the photos with just his head elevated? Or is he exploring a bit too?

He’s just hovering in that position... he moved once I tapped his cage but he wasn’t moving before that. I haven’t fed him for a while though so I will tonight, maybe I can look in his mouth for signs of respiratory infection.

Congratulations...I suspect you're a "helicopter snarent". ;) ALL snakes look up now & then...that doesn't mean they're sick, much less stargazing. No doubt your
vet would happily take your money to check him out...especially as an "emergency", but most likely you're just worried for nothing. Snakes are ALLOWED to look up,
it's in their contract...:cool: And when they're hungry, many will try to climb the walls in search of food...they rely on scent, which in MOST cases is coming from the TOP of their enclosures.

If that was my snake, I'd gently hold him so his face was near my ear, & listen for crackling, whistling, squeaking sounds...those can indicate an RI. Also bubbling
and excessive saliva in or near the mouth, & struggling to breathe (open mouth) since they cannot cough away excess secretions.

I'd also suggest assessing his overall coordination & strength...if that seems normal (as I suspect it will), he's not sick, just nosy (or hungry). Snakes with IBD are usually quite obviously sick...if you turn them on their back, they're unable to right themselves...they may have trouble holding on to things, & seem unsteady, as if they're dizzy, and move abnormally with poor coordination.

Heh, yes I am certainly a helicopter snarent, I worry easily. Thanks for your feedback, I will be feeding him tonight so I’ll assess him.

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Originally Posted by Bugs_and_Herps

Heh, yes I am certainly a helicopter snarent, I worry easily. Thanks for your feedback, I will be feeding him tonight so I’ll assess him.

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Asking shows you care about him, that's a good thing.:gj: I know there are scary issues discussed in forums & it's easy to imagine you're seeing the symptoms described in your own pets. It's not just you, either...many people that study medicine (to become doctors or nurses) find themselves imagining many of the symptoms they're reading about...so congratulations, you're also "human". :D FYI, I'd avoid handling him before feeding & only handle (& assess him further) IF he refuses food. If he eats, let him digest for a few days before handling (to check further) for best results (& no regurges) unless there are very OBVIOUS signs that something's wrong.

Yeah thats a good idea, thanks. I will try to handle him as little as I can but he’s actually is quite a fussy eater, he refuses to strike at his food and instead makes me pick him up and dangle him over the mouse. It’s very odd but it got him eating again after he refused a couple times so I’ve kept doing it. I got a new container to feed him in today that’s darker and smaller so maybe he will actually strike for once, we’ll see. Despite his weird method of eating, he does keep his food down so I haven’t been too concerned about it.

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Originally Posted by Bugs_and_Herps

Yeah thats a good idea, thanks. I will try to handle him as little as I can but he’s actually is quite a fussy eater, he refuses to strike at his food and instead makes me pick him up and dangle him over the mouse. It’s very odd but it got him eating again after he refused a couple times so I’ve kept doing it. I got a new container to feed him in today that’s darker and smaller so maybe he will actually strike for once, we’ll see. Despite his weird method of eating, he does keep his food down so I haven’t been too concerned about it.

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That's a VERY strange feeding preference! :D I've had BPs that when young, felt safer & therefore braver by being on a branch above their prey- that makes some sense; I also have snakes (not BPs) that enjoy eating f/t from tongs while sitting in my hand, they also eat "politely", but that's very odd for a BP. But hey, whatever works... The snakes I've hand-fed in the past out-grew that (most got feistier about eating) & fyi, I & most others don't recommend feeding in containers or side cages...especially BPs, they tend to feel bravest on their home turf, at night & peeking out of a secure-feeling hide for clueless prey (dangled f/t from tongs) to "walk past" (never towards them), so you might try moving towards doing it that way, but it's up to you, it's your snake. It's just that most snakes do get more likely to bite you by accident when handled either before or right after feeding-so the risk is mostly yours, if moving them for meals. Or, some snakes are put off eating if handled. Much of whether or not this works for you just comes down to how well you can read your snake & how comfortable your snake is with you doing this. Most snakes do get into a routine.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That's a VERY strange feeding preference! :D I've had BPs that when young, felt safer & therefore braver by being on a branch above their prey- that makes some sense; I also have snakes (not BPs) that enjoy eating f/t from tongs while sitting in my hand, they also eat "politely", but that's very odd for a BP. But hey, whatever works... The snakes I've hand-fed in the past out-grew that (most got feistier about eating) & fyi, I & most others don't recommend feeding in containers or side cages...especially BPs, they tend to feel bravest on their home turf, at night & peeking out of a secure-feeling hide for clueless prey (dangled f/t from tongs) to "walk past" (never towards them), so you might try moving towards doing it that way, but it's up to you, it's your snake. It's just that most snakes do get more likely to bite you by accident when handled either before or right after feeding-so the risk is mostly yours, if moving them for meals. Or, some snakes are put off eating if handled. Much of whether or not this works for you just comes down to how well you can read your snake & how comfortable your snake is with you doing this. Most snakes do get into a routine.

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Sorry, I'm doing several things at once (can you tell?)...meant to say it's odd for a sand boa, & I've actually not kept any sand boas, but as far as I know they're ambush-predators too...pouncing upwards from under the sand. If he's not kept on sand, there are other ways to simulate this ambush technique but right now I need my own dinner, lol...

Well thanks for being so dedicated to replying, I appreciate it. Maybe one day I will try to feed him in his cage but I keep him on aspen so I’ve always taken him out of his cage to avoid impaction and since I have to hold him anyway. He’s never even come close to biting me and has even been dropped a few inches after eating without regurging so he’s certainly chill once he has the mouse down. He would actually strike when he was younger (I got him at 7 months) but now he’s 20 months old and has been in this routine for half a year. I’m going to feed him right now, will update with how he does. Thanks for being so responsive.

Sand boas are so small that I wouldn't worry much about a bite either, lol, & I think it's very cool that you have this routine worked out with him. I'd be uncomfortable
about any of my snakes ingesting any aspen too, it's one substrate I've never used, actually (& for much the same reason).

Yeah I got a bunch of aspen on sale so once I use it up I might change lol... it does hold his burrows really well though and he’s lazy so he likes to reuse the tunnels he makes. If I do change it what would you recommend, out of curiosity? Ok back to my main subject, I did feed him last night and it went well. Something I forgot to mention about his weird eating is that he refuses to eat anything bigger than a fuzzy, even though they’re way too small for him comparatively. So last night I decided to try feeding him two fuzzies and it worked, after I dangled him over there first one I just placed the second one at the tail of the first and he kept on going it was rather amusing. From what I could see of his mouth there were no signs of infection, and he clearly was hungry so I’m relieved. I’ll still take him to the vet checkup I have scheduled but unless he does any other weird stuff I don’t think he needs to be taken in for emergency. Thanks for your feedback it has helped me chill out a lot.

If you feel better taking him to see the vet, just make sure that the vet you see has plenty of snake experience; those that seldom see "exotic" pets often get it all wrong.

Personally I'd not take him to the vet if the only thing you're worried about is the way he was "periscoping" to look around...that's NOT "stargazing". (the latter goes on for a long time, & as I already mentioned, you'll very likely see other symptoms too) Plus he has a good appetite- that's a very positive sign. Snakes are VERY hard to read, especially for vets who only see them in office. First learn what's normal & then trust what you see. If your snake ever really IS sick, your observations can make all the difference, to help your vet diagnose.

I'd recommend using Carefresh 'natural': it sticks together better than aspen...I've raised & kept rosy boas for many years, & especially when they're neonates, they love
to tunnel into it...they feel very secure that way. I use a mix of Carefresh & my own clean paper shreds for most of my snakes currently. I primarily keep colubrids these
days. Carefresh is ideal for desert snakes...it's "drying" (hygroscopic), & has no possibility of splinters...it's a paper by-product. (I'd still avoid letting snakes swallow it,
especially if they're small, but a small bit is very unlikely to cause a blockage & no chance of a bowel perforation at all.)

As far as feeding your sand boa, they have a narrow face (gape), very much like my rosy boas & my Texas longnose snake. You've already figured out the answer to them
getting enough to eat...multiple items. :gj: Don't over-do it...you want a good body weight but not over-weight. For example, my adult female rosy boa (about 40" long)
normally eats 2 small adult mice per meal...one large one would be too big around for her mouth & would be harder to digest, & one small adult mouse just wouldn't be
enough food. My TX longnose snake has a totally different build...long & skinny. He'd normally mostly eat lizards & small snakes in the wild, & the name comes from his
narrow face- he's about 18 years old now & also about 40" long- his meals consist of 5-6 fuzzy mice (f/t), to fill up his tummy to a reasonable extent. See? Snakes are
NOT "one size fits all" about feeding or anything else. Snakes with a narrow gape do best eating on the small side, but pinkies have very little nutrition. For best results
you want to feed the most mature rodents that fit properly for good digestion. :snake: Good work "chain feeding" your sand boa.

Great advice, yeah I am going to go ahead and take him to the vet since he’s never been in the time I’ve had him and I also didn’t quarantine him when I first got him (although he is/was my first snake so it doesn’t make much difference.) I’ve heard good things about Carefresh but I’ve never found it at any of my local pet suppliers so I haven’t tried it but I’ll look into it. I’m glad to have figured out the chain feeding it is an encouraging sign about his appetite. Thanks again for all your help and way cool to have a Texas longnose they are beautiful!

It's easy to find Carefresh online thru any of the major pet-product suppliers. Here's a link to Chewy. https://www.chewy.com/carefresh-smal...ding/dp/122289

I know that Petco carries it in store as well as online...it's always more expensive in the store, & quite honestly, I wait for online sales & stock up so as to avoid shipping
charges too, especially since I have 19 snakes...I typically buy it once a year (multiple bags), or I order it along with dog food etc. Carefresh comes in various versions,
I stick with "natural".

Your little sand boa is a real cutie, btw.

My KSB does that a lot too. I think he's just studying the top of the tank, trying to figure out way to escape.

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Originally Posted by Spicey

My KSB does that a lot too. I think he's just studying the top of the tank, trying to figure out way to escape.

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Yup...I think I remember someone (on this forum?) at least a year ago whose KSB persisted in climbing to the upper "ledge" in their tank, trying to "leave town", lol.

The OP's KSB is likely hungry too- he was only just fed 2 items per meal for the first time, I think? (one wasn't enough, he's been eating prey that's on the small side)

Well everyone thank you for your help, I am currently at the vet after much discussion. Turns out it was a good thing after all because he does have a respiratory infection. He’s going to start antibiotics. I’m glad that it was not IBD though it will be sad to have to give the little guy shots. I’m going to remodel his cage so I think I’ll be starting a new thread regarding that but I might as well ask here too... does anyone have recommendations for something I can line the bottom of his tank with other than reptile carpet? This is to be under his substrate between substrate and glass so he doesn’t burn himself on UTH. I’d like something that is easily washable because reptile carpet is NOT so I’ve just been fully replacing it when I clean his tank, and that is racking up in price. So if anyone has advice for a washable non fabric terrarium liner that I won’t have to replace monthly please let me know. Thanks everyone!

Do you have a thermostat? It sounds like you don't and in that case you should get one asap. It's good that you've been mindful about not burning him, but a terrarium liner shouldn't be necessary with the proper set up. A thermostat will keep your UTH at the right temperature all the time which is easier, safer and a lot more reliable than using a liner on unregulated heat :)

I just saw you made a separate thread for this and you do have a thermostat. People have already told you the same thing but I'll echo them, as long as the thermostat is set to a suitable temperature there is no fear of burning and you don't need a liner

No I do have a thermostat don’t worry, I’ve just been told to have a liner in case he stays on the hot spot for too long. Maybe I’m being over protective though... I guess I could go with no liner, the hotspot stays at 95 degrees.

I think no liner would be a good choice as there’s really no concern for burning when your heat is properly regulated and a liner won’t help if the bottom of his tank is hot enough to burn him anyway. I think your hotspot could be a little lower, most sources recommend 90-95*, but still sounds fine for a KSB. Hopefully you won’t have to spend any more money on reptile carpet!