Target Training Fail!

I've mentioned here that I like to use target training to, among other useful things, moderate strong feeding responses. I thought you might find my latest failure amusing...

If you're not familiar with it, in target training you present a target to your snake and immediately reward them with food when they approach and nudge or tongue-flick the target without striking it. Once the association is well-established, your snake knows that if it sees the target, food is on the way but if there is no target, no food is forthcoming.

My Stimson's Python Jake has the feeding response of a T. Rex. Before being target trained he'd strike and wrap first and ask questions later - he's done really well with training, and feeding and handling have gone much better. But a few weeks ago, Jake got a little too exited when he saw the target, and he struck and wrapped it. I decided I'd just leave it with him, retrieve it the next morning, and make some training adjustments. Jake had other plans, though.

Jake figured out that somehow the magic stick produces mice - so rather than sleeping in his usual spot, he went to sleep right next to the target stick, with his head resting on it. He stayed there, basically guarding the target stick, for over 24 hours. He only shifted position once, and that was to rest his head directly on top of the target ball, lol.

He's no dummy. He's a bit of a handful but I really love this little guy.

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...arget_fail.jpg[/IMG]

:rofl::rofl::rofl: I love it even when it doesn't work....:snake: And I think you owe him a delivery too, just saying...

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:rofl::rofl::rofl: I love it even when it doesn't work....:snake: And I think you owe him a delivery too, just saying...

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Hahah. He thinks I always owe him a delivery. He got two mice the next day! I decided I'd strengthen his target training with some repeated reinforcement, so instead of one large mouse he got two small ones - that allowed me to do back-to-back target reinforcement sessions, and allowed him to feel like the little apex predator he is.

I don't quite understand the point of target training or why you'd want to moderate a snake's strong feeding response. Can you elaborate please?

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I don't quite understand the point of target training or why you'd want to moderate a snake's strong feeding response. Can you elaborate please?

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I think it’s an interesting concept and the woman who is involved in it works a lot with Bredli pythons. I tend to let the animals I have do what their instincts dictate.

The training itself could assist with reptile research down the road.
There have been some limited intelligence studies done with snakes that didn’t prove much.

I don’t have the time or patience to work through this type of exercise. I do like seeing some of the results though.

It’s something I would never have tried with the retic I used to keep.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I don't quite understand the point of target training or why you'd want to moderate a snake's strong feeding response. Can you elaborate please?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyS54dnqacM

Like Gio, I don't have time to do this but sounds fun.

OP - have your tried hook training to snap the Stimson's out of food mode?

I too have not tried target training, but hook training has done wonders for my boas and Carpet python, all food crazed, especially the boas.

Many snakes do well with that and it's pretty easy. I posted a thread a while ago on it and can send the link if you want.

I am not trying to push hook training over target training, I am more curious to know the differences and what works with different animals.

Thank you for this thread.

I think many zoos do a version of this when they work with various animals, including venomous snakes, where they use shift-cages for cleaning. Pretty cool...:gj:

I recall them doing this with Komodo dragons too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x35Kt1OR6r8
And if you watch all the way thru, they explain the various benefits of doing this.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0ge...tTHrWWmZcunYw-

I believe hook training could be considered a form of target training. Target training's main goal is to have the reptile identify when it's food time and when it isn't.

That's interesting. Is the purpose of these studies to show that snakes have the intelligence to understand that following a visual cue eventually leads to a food reward in the end? Kinda like a mouse in a maze? I guess it's possible. And then what? What other tricks are they planning to teach these snakes and what are they hoping to learn? I guess I still don't understand the end goal but hope it's not to try and domesticate such magnificent creatures.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

That's interesting. Is the purpose of these studies to show that snakes have the intelligence to understand that following a visual cue eventually leads to a food reward in the end? Kinda like a mouse in a maze? I guess it's possible. And then what? What other tricks are they planning to teach these snakes and what are they hoping to learn? I guess I still don't understand the end goal but hope it's not to try and domesticate such magnificent creatures.

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I don't think the point is to domesticate them but to learn how intelligent they actually are. There have been very few studies on reptile intelligence but the ones that have been completed have yielded so crazy results. They did an experiment with rattlesnakes hunting in 2002 and found that they will actually move things in their environment to help them hunt. There are a couple summaries of some studies here. http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Six-...-Intelligence/

I love the discussion, don't feel like anyone is pushing anything on me, and am always open to feedback about anything I do with my snakes as long as it's delivered in a friendly/respectful way. I started keeping snakes back when we used fish tanks and 'hot rocks', so I've definitely had to remain open to feedback and change to ensure that I provide the best conditions possible!

So in response to questions, suggestions, etc: I wanted to tone down and focus Jake's feeding response, because before training he'd start striking as soon as he could see movement near his enclosure, and he'd bite and wrap anything that moved into his reach. He takes his food VERY seriously.

I agree that hook training is great, and it's something every new keeper should learn. It's also the best path for those who may not have the time or interest to get into target training, station training, etc. Daksi, I've actually shared your thread on hook training with several others outside of these boards, and appreciate what a nice job you did of explaining it. I think it's helped a lot of people.

I've opted to use target training with my snakes (not only with Jake) for a few reasons: I've found it to be effective while providing additional behavioral options. I can use target training to get a snake to voluntarily shift to a holding enclosure while I clean, or move it to an activity station (like a climbing perch). Finally, the process of target training provides mental and physical stimulation for the snake. I grew up in a family of veterinarians and worked my way through undergrad/grad school as a vet tech in laboratory settings and exotics practices, so we were always looking for ways to lower stress for the animals we handled, and this sort of behavioral training is one option. Plus, I just generally find it interesting and fun.

I don't want to imply that one form of training is better than the other - it all depends on you, your needs and interests, and the animals you are working with. But I enjoy sharing my experiences, brainstorming about ways to improve, and sharing funny mistakes like Jake's escapade with the magical mouse-producing stick.

Caitlin,

Thank you for the thorough and thoughtful answer and the props.

Keep us posted and good luck with Jake!