our first day together

well we brought dexter home from the breeder on saturday and put him in his new viv and left him alone. so this afternoon i decided to see if he was in the mood to come out for a while. i don't want to stress him out.

so my son was holding him in his hand and he was a tight little ball... and within about 10 minutes he was relaxing and another 5 minutes and he was off exploring the couch. we have a 210 gallon fish tank behind the couch and when dexter discovered the tank... well let's just say he was in heaven :D

he stared at the tank for almost an hour LOL - the kids were thrilled cause they were holding him while he stared at the fish and he was so gentle with them... he didn't ball up again, even when my 6 yr old was holding him. he was still very relaxed.

what a great first day :D

Congrats on the new addition. :D

Ummm, not to be a killjoy but you really need to allow the snake a week of settling in and at least one meal (with the obligitory 48 hours no handling after). I know it really sucks, but it truely is better. Allow the snake the one week, then short handling sessions around 15 minutes. Too much handling and you may have a noneating snake.

really? no handling at all, not even for short periods?

wow, this is gonna be tough...

Nope no handling. I just finished up a week of no handling with my 3 new babies. And even longer with one, since he didn't take his first meal. Picky little booger. ;) It completely and totally sucks, but it's good for them to acclimate and get settled.

*ties hands behind back*

okay, no more handling until he eats and then for another 48 hours. ;) i promissssssssssssssse.

Hardest part of getting a new snake is leaving it be that first week other than a quick visual check, changing water or removing urates & feces but it truly is for the best.

The little snake may not show stress immediately from too much handling, too soon but it has been shown to sometimes cause feed refusals.

Especially with kids, it's hard to enforce the hands off rule but we just tell ours that the snake doesn't know us and even though we are nice people, we can scare it so it's best to just leave it be till it feels safer.

Best of luck with your lovely new snake!


~~Jo~~

my 1 week and 2 days is up today. fed her saturday afternoon so i had to wait 2 extra days. if i can hold out anyone can. mine tore into her mouse so quick i almost missed it when i blinked.

Isn't it amazing how fast and accurate they can be! One minute just still and then WHAMMO! Even little Malachi hits so hard the first time I fed him from tongs he slammed his dinner across the tub LOL.


~~Jo~~

thanks for your support everyone... i told the kids it's for his health and they understood that :)

so they are now counting the days LOL

i haven't held him... but i've been watching him in his viv. he's so cute. he stretches so tall and touches the lid, raises himself up his driftwood and slithers around... exploring every inch of his new home.

;) i looooooove my new baby!

Aren't they great snakes! We love ours and once they are well settled in, most of them make excellent pets as long as handling is reasonable and appropriate for a snake.

I'm finding with our kids and I know Lars has mentioned this as well, that they are learning some great life lessons from us having snakes around. Things like patience and putting the snake's needs first, about the natural world of prey & predator (even feeding f/t, this is obvious), about being gentle and easy and still with a young or nervous snake, that they can't impose their will on a snake, that biology/genetics is very cool and so on. All sorts of really nice things for kids to learn at any age.


~~Jo~~

i totally agree with you. my kids are used to being slow and steady with our lizards... they know they can't touch the frogs and toads... they are able to watch a bird grow from a tiny little hatchling to a full grown adult...

ah the circle of life - all within our eyesight... what a gift that is!

we just did our first feeding and i was hoping he would eat. :please:

i put the mouse into his viv and he grabbed it like he hadn't been fed in a year!!! immediately he constricted it and the mouse was dead.

then he sniffed and nudged and moved the mouse around and i thought... oh no i've got a mouse that too big for him :worry: what am i going to do??? i could tell by the way dexter was looking at the mouse :love: there was no way for me to get it from him.

so i came on here and did a search... reading i found "i look for prey 3x the size of my snakes head and no bigger"

so i looked at the mouse and at dexter's head and realized i was being an overprotectivefirsttime mom. :redface:

so i made the kids lunch (not mice but actually... pig!) and when i came back dexter was just finishing the tail... he gave a huge yawn and i saw 1/2 an inch of tail sticking out of his throat. his body is swelled from the mouse but no larger than the thickest part of his body...

so i think we both did good... me being a first time snake mama and him eating his first meal in my home. ;)

and yes, i know... no holding him for 48 hours! that makes it... friday night snake holding night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

right?

Isn't it such a wonderful feeling to have a snake all curled up with a nice rodent in it's belly? You're definitely in the right place, since very few people out there will listen to our incessant babbling about our snakes and their bodily functions. ;)

You got it! And congrats! :clap: :D

i'm just soooo pleased about this... since i've read about how hard it can be for a snake to eat for the first time(s).

the breeder, henry, suggested i let dexter eat in his viv for the first few times and if they are very successful feedings, then i can remove him for eating.

oh and one more thing... i read that aspen is disgestible for balls and that IF they eat some, it's fine... is this correct?

Sounds wonderful! If you are at all worried about aspen ingestion then just pop in a pad of newspaper and remove it after he's all done and gone off to digest. We feed all our snakes on aspen and have yet to have any issue with it. If the prey isn't sopping wet from being immersed in hot water it doesn't tend to pick up much if any aspen. If a tiny bit did get in, remember these are snakes with stomachs designed to digest bone, teeth, hair, etc.

We compare the size of the prey at it's largest point (hips on a rat/mouse for the ball pythons, head on a bunny for the large boa) to the largest girth of the particular snake. If it's not larger than the largest girth circumference, they are usually good to go. Our snakes have a nice thickening after eating but no large discernible lump. Just our way, not the "only" or "right" way though LOL.

Glad your snake is eating so well...that's always exciting and reassuring!


~~Jo~~

jo,

thank you so much. i have found all of your postings on this forum to be so informative and enlightening...

thanks!
aleesha

Oh that's nice of you to say! Seriously if this forum hadn't been around or the wonderful folks on it that have taken some of my panicked phone calls I highly doubt my family or our snakes would be as happily settled in as we are at this point. I know we would have never had the confidence to take on the adoptees and rescues that we have or watched them come along so well without the full support and care of the forum members of BPnet.

If in any way I can pass on what little I know then I guess it's "pay it forward". We're so passionate about this hobby that I guess I just want to see everyone as happy with their snakes as I am!

I think I can speak for most of us here when I say that it's very rewarding to assist at whatever level we can to help ensure snakes are being kept properly so they can thrive and their humans can have a great experience with them.

Acccck I'm babbling......never have a coffee and caramel temptation liqueur if you've ingested cold meds recently! LOL


~~Jo~~

good advice :)

knowledge is power. ignorance is NOT bliss.

thanks for sharing! hopefully one day i'll know enough to "pay it forward" too.

okay so i waited and last night (friday) i brought dexter out but he just laid in our hands... no exploring at all, he seemed kinda... tired. (this was around 5pm) so after about 10 minutes i put him back into his viv.

tonight around the same time, we brought him out, and again, not a lot of action. so after about 20 minutes i put him back.

now, i'm thinking... this is good. i'm respecting what dexter wants without 'not' handling him...

but after reading some other threads within this forum... could it be that i'm handling him too early? oh and also i haven't seen him exploring his enclosure ever since we fed him (that was wed. afternoon). maybe it's taking a little longer for him to digest? he looks fine when we have him out... no 'bulges'.

well last night we had our second successful live feeding. as soon as i put the mouse into his viv... he immediately took it down. (i chose not to remove any hides and he attacked under his bark hide so i lifted it up to make sure everything was going well - and it did)

so, i would like to change things a bit. i'm considering feeding dexter outside his viv in a feeding box (not sure what to call it... sorry if i'm using the wrong term here). so here's my questions:

first, the breeder told me that i can remove dexter to feed him if i want to but he doesn't feel it's really necc. - he said some types of snakes you absolutely need to remove but in his experience, balls don't strike when he goes into their viv so giving them a feeding box isn't an absolute. (i'd love to hear everyone's feelings on this one)

second, how do you use a feeding box? do i put the snake in and then the mouse and if that's the case, then isn't it the same as feeding inside his viv?

(see i really am confused about this)

i did a search on this forum but didn't find anything to answer my questions... so i hope you all don't mind discussing it here.

Great to hear another feeding went so well! Sounds like Dexter is a happy snake!

As far as handling and how much a ball python moves about...some of our royals are off and exploring quite a bit when out of their tubs, others are content to just laze about with us and rarely do more than a bit of a stretch out. Dex could just be still adjusting as well to handling so isn't exploring as much since he's not sure if a predator might be lurking under your arm LOL. We usually have each of our ball pythons out twice a week give or take but then we have more of them and since we only handle in the evening hours there's only so much time for hang out on the couch with the family thing. We don't handle for 48 hours after feeding or on the day of feeding so that cuts 3 out of 7 days anyway. Just our routine, not the only routine of course.

We've always fed in their enclosures. If you look at my avatar that's actually Malachi our small male bp that we bought recently from Adam at 8BallPythons. You can see how Malachi is ready to eat and in a nice strike position but he feels safe as his butt end is still tucked safe in his hide so obviously we don't remove hides when we feed. With the really big females, we do take out one of their hides (the one they aren't currently in or near) just to give us a bit more room to work and monitor their live feeds, but replace it quietly afterwards.

If you are in and out of his enclosure regularily for handling, water changes, feces and urate removal, whatever he not as likely to equate the opening of his home with an automatic offering of prey. We also always make sure the prey is handled with hemostats (live, p/k, f/t, whatever) and wash really well, so none of our snakes ever smell rat or mouse on our hands.

Lots of folks prefer to use a seperate feeding tub and that's just fine too. What works, works.

Doesn't mean he's never going to tag you though LOL. Sometimes they just have bad days, bad moments or you startle them. Sometimes it's not even a bite, just a "leave me alone" sort of jab that doesn't even connect. Mike and I call it the "HISS OFF!" attitude LOL.


~~Jo~~

well hopefully it won't be my little one who gets tagged... although i never allow her to reach into any enclosures so i doubt she will.

i just added two items to dexter's viv... a hydrometer (they finally got them in at the petstore!) which is reading 68 and a new hide. he really loves the little exo terra hide we have in there for him, so i got him a larger one... (they are tan and look like a cave) - i cover them with aspen to give them that, "i'm under the ground look" even more!

i had to remove his piece of driftwood though, as it's too large and i'm going to get him another piece soon... he does have the bark in there though to assist with a shed if needed...

so i think we are happening now :D:D:D:D

oh and when i finished messing with his viv... dexter came out, (i could see the buldge from his supper yesterday) and he slithered into his new hide... so i think it was definitely a good purchase.

but, i don't know if it's possible... he sure seems bigger than when we got him 10 days ago... *sniff* my baby is growing up...

Amazing how fast they grow. Little Malachi looks so much bigger already too.

Just a little suggestion to try and not disturb Dex or his home too much right after he's eaten. It may not seem to bother him much but it's always best to play it safe and try to leave them alone as much as possible for 48 hours after they eat. (I'm such a worry wort LOL)

We use big black rubber dog dishes for hides for the bigger snakes but I pile aspen on top too in a rather pointless attempt to make them look less like...well....a flipped over big black rubber dog dish!


~~Jo~~

oooooooh, i thought i just couldn't hold him... bothering him, :petting: annoying him :omfg: and pestering :hump: him is out too?

all joking aside... thanks for telling me that jo cause i honestly didn't realize i should just leave him alone... :sleep:

thanks!!! :thumbsup:

It's not a huge deal and if you need to get in there to remove feces/urates or freshen water don't hesitate of course. Remember this is only the way Mike and I do it, not the only way to do it. We just tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to disturbing the snakes at all for 48 hours after a good feeding. I'm one of those folks that live in fear of accidentally triggering a regurge LOL *knock wood*


~~Jo~~

well i don't want a regurge either... but if it happens, what do i do? just remove it and wait another week to feed?

If you ever get a regurge only the really experienced keepers/breeders here could advise you on what's best to do. I wouldn't dream of even trying as one, I've never had a regurge occur and two, I'm in no way experienced enough yet so I'd be risking your snake to do so.

There are so many great folks here that would offer advice far better than I could in that situation. Hopefully though you won't have to deal with it. I hope I didn't make you worry with my post. From what I've seen on this forum, regurges aren't a very common occurrence but they seem to be a serious indicator something is going on that needs addressed properly. Basically, not something akin to the pet cat gakking up the occasional small hairball.


~~Jo~~

oh okay, perhaps someone will respond to this post and fill me in. (and no you didn't make me worry, just gave me another question to ask LOL)

i homeschool my kids so i'm used to asking a lot of questions so i can answer their questions when they ask ;)

ive found in my corns that regurege isnt life an death if there is a clear reason for it. my anery corn regurged twice while eating happily inbetween.

once when the power cut out for a couple of hours and she couldnt digest it (im kinda glad she chukked that time, better than it goin bad inside her) and once when i lifted her back into the tank after her first feed with me. now i let her digest for a bit in a warm spot before i try an put her back into her cage and i let her slither in herself instead of picking her up. she hasnt chukked since and is eating happily.
id worry if any of them regurged for no clear reason as it can be a sign of internal parasites, least thats what ive read.

okay so since this is my thread, i want to change the subject... once again :P

i'm very nervous when i go to pick up dexter. my son picks him up for me and once he's out of the viv i'm okay holding him. any suggestions on how to pick him up in his viv? i'm guessing i'm just being silly... but i've always been terrified of snakes and when i see him laying in his hide... it makes me afraid to bother him.

so, how do you pick up your baby snakes? just grab ahold of their belly or scoop under their whole body with your hand....

They're usually in their hides, so I just lift the hide up off of them, stroke their side gently so they know I'm coming, and then grip them by the mid body and lift. Once they're in the air, I support more of them with my other hand. Voila! Hand-held snakes. :)

Yep, that's pretty much the way I do it too. It works for my son's Sonoran gopher snake too, but he is usually alot squirmier once you pick him up.

The snake, I mean, not my son.

Funny but over the years I've been bit more by my kids than the snakes....odd that! LOL

We do basically what Cody does. Take the hide off slowly, gently reach in for a little stroke down the spine of the snake, gives them notice we are about to lift them out of their home, then remove and support their body. We do this even if they are out of their hide just so it's a routine they can learn. Reach, stroke, lift, support....even Brannagh the Brat is coming to know this routine. Just be deliberate and slow in your movements so you don't startle Dex.

Even with the most nicely tempered snake you are doing to get hissed at, jabbed at or nipped (tagged as the snake folks call it) someday. It's just part of owning snakes and isn't anything to really worry over. All you can do is minimize the reasons which are normally driven by fear, defensiveness or a hungry snake going for something warm coming his way. They just aren't domesticated pets when all is said and done.

I was actually glad when Brannagh finally tagged me as it was so minor compared to what my fear of it was (FEAR = false evidence appearing real).

One of the best bits of wisdom that Adam shared I think is to form habits and routines and stick to them with ball pythons whether it's feeding, handling, whatever. It seems to make everything run smoother and the snakes know in a basic way what to expect from life.

If you are nervous right now, then pop on a set of gloves to get Dex out. Then when you know he's relaxed, slip them off. Heck I'm not a weenie but I wouldn't think of handling our Brannagh gloveless yet myself, though she's getting better every day LOL.


~~Jo~~

i was thinking about this last night and thought... isn't it funny how something so simple in theory (hey you gonna pick up your snake?) can actually become something larger when you don't know how to do it...

thanks to you all, i think i'm going to do fine. so, later this evening... i'll be the one picking dexter up for some cuddling (odd word to use regarding a snake LOL) - i'll keep ya posted!

well i did it. i'm very proud of myself cause i was soooo nervous. i put on my glove cause i kept trying to pick him up and he would slither into another hide!!! and i was bound and determined to hold him...

so i put on my glove and i picked him up and we have some nice time together. he almost slipped off my arm twice... but i caught him both times... he's just learning how to explore LOL -- so all in all... i give me a 8 out of 10 for bravery and just simply doing it!!!

Well done :) And I think snakes do seem to be cuddly just like any other pet (yes I know they only see us as a perch really :D ) Mine seems to enjoy it mostly except when's she's in hungry hunting mode then she's constantly in motion. She was just sat on me last night curled up with everything but her head and tailtip under my shirt keeping warm and snuggly.

Yeah they're definitely cuddly, whether they know it or not. :P Yesterday when I woke up, I noticed Ace was out of his hides exploring a bit, so I went and got him out for a bit and laid in bed while he slithered around. He checked out the bed for a bit, then slithered over and curled up next to me. I was like "awww, I know he's just there because I'm warm, but still...awww". :D

:D I'm not the only one who takes pets to bed then :D

And we humans make much safer warm surfaces to rest on than hot rocks ...

whew... i'm so glad i'm not the odd one here LOL

(not saying any of you are odd :P )

Hey I'm odd and darned proud of it! Worked my way through freaky, slighty off center, space cadet and "who is that wierd lady down the street?" to get here!

I am 44. My next goal is to live long enough to be a burden to my children :psychotic


~~Joanna, future funny old lady~~

giggling.... i'm 42...

my kids say i'll be that crazy cat, snake, bird... etc etc etc lady sitting in my yard listening to my pond and not going out except for food LOL

and i'm sooooooo looking forward to those days when my kids are grown and i can be crazy and alone :D

ah the peace and quiet... i can hear it now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

giggling.... i'm 42...

my kids say i'll be that crazy cat, snake, bird... etc etc etc lady sitting in my yard listening to my pond and not going out except for food LOL

and i'm sooooooo looking forward to those days when my kids are grown and i can be crazy and alone :D

ah the peace and quiet... i can hear it now!

---

I soo agree with you - (I'm 45) - no more running about taking teenagers somewhere - I'm forever on the move. At least one of my daughters has now just passed her driving test so she can take herself (and pick me up sometimes if I want to go out for a dinner/drink with friends)

Ahhh so I'm not the only one that dreams of old age! LOL

My eldest daughter, bless her little black heart, told me once that she will care for me in my "golden years".....a retirement home at the top of a steep cliff was mentioned! To think I labored 36 hours and went through a C-section to give that wench life!!! I, of course, replied that since she managed to burp up on my very best and only mohair sweater as an infant I was planning to do pretty much the same to her in my later years....turnabout being fair play and all that.

Seems Kate and I share the same warped sense of humor LOL.

I just want to be that old lady that says bizarre things and everyone assumes it's terribly wise. My hero was Sophie on The Golden Girls! LOL


~~Jo~~

hahaha i keep telling mine i'm coming to live with them and i want all my meals catered LOL

oh i looooove getting older, i had no idea it would be so much fun! i was so worried about turning 30 (as i would HAVE to start dating guys over 30 and that terrified me {don't know why}) and then i went out and married a guy 14 years older than me LOL - go figure :)

told him i married him for his pension plan and dental plan... well he retired at 54 so i've got the pension plan and unfortunately his dental plan is gone... so i got 50% of what i wanted LOL

i just went in to change dexter's water and to spend some time with him (i fed him friday morning) and i've been missing his little face... being oh so very patient waiting for him to digest...

and he's darker :D he's getting ready for his first shed with me... i'm soooooo pleased :)

so i held him for a bit, made sure his viv was clean and now he's relaxing in his warm hide ;)

yipppppeeeeeee :please: please please make it a clean shed cause i wanna keep it forever :love:

Just bump up that humidity and let him do the rest. I'm sure it'll be fine. ;)

heehee, actually we are trying to keep the humidity down. we have so many fish tanks in this house... 4 in this room alone which total over 300 gallons of water... plus a fountain... so the humidity is high in his enclosure.

his eyes are really blue today and I'M SO PROUD OF MYSELF i picked him up, yesterday and twice today all by myself. i only used my glove the first time and haven't had to since. :D:D:D:D ya for me!!!

so my hubby is bringing dexter home a snake tonight and we'll see if he wants to eat, if not i have a rubbermaid i can keep the mouse in until he wants it. ;)

i sure am loving this new addiction... SNAKES!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

so my hubby is bringing dexter home a snake tonight and we'll see if he wants to eat

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bringing home a snake? lol do you mean a snack ir are you feeding your bp poor lil defenceless snakes now lol