Concerns of a New BP Owner

TL;DR - just read the bold text.

I purchased my first ball python on December 29th, 2019. He was about one month old. I've owned him for about 4 months, a little less than that. When I first bought him, he was the most finicky eater I've ever seen. I hadn't read anywhere of such a picky eater. I actually had to return him to his breeder so that he would eat, and then had him returned to me after 3 feedings. I finally got him to eat for me, but I had to use the strangest method: thaw a frozen rat, warm it up using hot water afterward, then lay it down in front of him. If I wiggled it, he would reject it. It had to be just him and the rat. I didn't mind, because he would eat.

He ate reliably up until about 2 weeks ago, and I haven't been able to get him to eat since. I'm going to attempt to feed him again tomorrow. I don't know why he suddenly decided to stop eating, but I'm very worried about how to proceed with his feeding schedule.

Here's some general data about his environment:
80-90ºF on the hot side.
70-80ºF on the cool side. (There's fluctuation because my house is wicked cold and the temp wobbles a lot, so I am constantly adjusting the thermostats.)
55%-60% humidity (I stabilized this yesterday; before, it was a high 70%. Since he doesn't appear to be going into shed, this may have been the issue.)

Last attempt to feed: 4/15
Next attempt: 4/23
Last urate found: 4/14
Last poop found: 4/14
Last tank reset: 4/14 (full clean, substrate replacement, the works)
Last shed: ?

He has not shed for me yet. He has had two sheds in his lifetime so far, I believe. His first hatchling shed was with his breeder of course, and then his second shed happened during the time his breeder was holding onto him trying to get him to eat. He didn't tell me when the shed was, though. And now, I can't remember when it was exactly that he had my snake. I also don't know when he last took a meal, because the reminders on my phone glitched and messed up my schedule for him.

But now, I can only move forward. That's where I really need help. I have no idea if my snake- whose name is Smake by the way, lol- is underweight, overweight, the right weight for his size, or anything. I have a kitchen scale I can use, but I don't want to weigh him until I can get him to eat, since I don't want to touch him or handle him until then. I've included some pictures of Smake and his enclosure.

He's been primarily in his hide on the hot side: https://imgur.com/a/hSGP3bd

This is his tank setup: https://imgur.com/a/y33M9Np
(Not pictured: two heat mats (again, my house is FREEZING. His cold size would be in the low 60s otherwise), two thermometers on either side, and one thermostat per mat)
(Also: his tank is 10gal)

This is him:
https://imgur.com/a/11gTjfP
https://imgur.com/a/YmfYCgC
https://imgur.com/a/obKdbZM
https://imgur.com/a/tgQonyA
https://imgur.com/a/aaY8BR7

In summary, here are my questions:
1. Is he healthy, underweight, or overweight?
2. Based off of his appearance/weight, how often should I feed him going forward?
3. Is there anything visibly wrong with his setup?
4. Aside from blue eyes and rougher skin, what signs can I look for to know if he's getting ready to shed?
5. Finally, his head appears flaky, but only barely. It doesn't show up in pictures. Is that normal?

Thanks for reading my long post! Please ask me any questions about my snake that come to mind and I will answer them to the best of my ability.

I would weigh him- it´ll help determine the appropriate prey size and frequency of offering.

About at what time do you offer food (Morning, mid-day, dusk, night time) and what time did you offer when he did take food?

Ball pythons are notoriously picky eaters. If he doesn't eat the f/t then you may have to try a live, appropriately sized rodent.

More than likely the breeder fed it live hopper or rat pinkie before the purchase and after you returned it to him. Also, it was probably living in a small bin in a rack system like all the other hatchlings. This is not counting the temps and humidity the breeder have right in his room.

So imagine that and your snake being shipped back and forth, living in an unfamiliar place and eating a strange prey item that he may not recognize. It is a huge stressful move for your snake.

There is a 101 hatching feeding sticky by Deb in the forums. Follow it and you should see it eating soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smakemom

80-90ºF on the hot side.
70-80ºF on the cool side. (There's fluctuation because my house is wicked cold and the temp wobbles a lot, so I am constantly adjusting the thermostats.)

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Sorry but I keep getting hung up about these statements. Are you referring to thermostats in your house or a thermostat for your mode of heating your enclosure (which is a must). The ten degree fluctuations are pretty alarming to me. A thermostat for your enclosure should reduce the fluctuations so you can have a steady temperature for your ball python.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Sorry but I keep getting hung up about these statements. Are you referring to thermostats in your house or a thermostat for your mode of heating your enclosure (which is a must). The ten degree fluctuations are pretty alarming to me. A thermostat for your enclosure should reduce the fluctuations so you can have a steady temperature for your ball python.

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It´s mentioned that there are two heat mats (one on each side) both regulated by seperate thermostats.

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Originally Posted by vivi

It´s mentioned that there are two heat mats (one on each side) both regulated by seperate thermostats.

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Sorry, I missed that. But if that's the case, why is there a 10 degree fluctuation on both sides?

That´s what confused me too. Could be because of incorrect probe readings or just an unreliable thermostat.

I usually offer him a meal around 8-10pm, so after sunset. I try to have the lights off in my room as well.

Ok, so I worded the fluctuation badly. I have to adjust my stats at least once a day, because of the temperature of my house. The cool side is usually fine and shuffles between 75º and 80º but can sometimes dip below 70 or rise above 80 depending on the house. I also have a huge window that affects my room temp. I will be moving soon to an environment with a much more stable temperature, thankfully, but until then my room is the only place for him.

The hot side is the bigger problem. It's true that it can fluctuate about 10º a day, but not all at once! That would definitely be a shock. It only wiggles about 5º up or down at a time. But again, because of my house, I usually have to adjust that side once a day. (I only set it one more degree above or below- that's enough of a change to fix it, usually.)

Hopefully that makes more sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smakemom

Ok, so I worded the fluctuation badly. I have to adjust my stats at least once a day, because of the temperature of my house. The cool side is usually fine and shuffles between 75º and 80º but can sometimes dip below 70 or rise above 80 depending on the house. I also have a huge window that affects my room temp. I will be moving soon to an environment with a much more stable temperature, thankfully, but until then my room is the only place for him.

The hot side is the bigger problem. It's true that it can fluctuate about 10º a day, but not all at once! That would definitely be a shock. It only wiggles about 5º up or down at a time. But again, because of my house, I usually have to adjust that side once a day. (I only set it one more degree above or below- that's enough of a change to fix it, usually.)

Hopefully that makes more sense.

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From the sounds of it, you're not taking the surface temperatures of your tank which is what you need to be concerned with. You can achieve this by using a temp gun. I say this because I don't think your house temperatures are going to influence huge 10 degree swings in surface temps; especially if you have a working thermostat controlling your heat mats. It sounds like you may be using a regular thermometer to take air temps inside your tank. Does this make sense?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

From the sounds of it, you're not taking the surface temperatures of your tank which is what you need to be concerned with. You can achieve this by using a temp gun. I say this because I don't think your house temperatures are going to influence huge 10 degree swings in surface temps; especially if you have a working thermostat controlling your heat mats. It sounds like you may be using a regular thermometer to take air temps inside your tank. Does this make sense?

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I actually have a thermometer on either side and the probes are against the surface of the tank, covered by the substrate. What you say makes sense though.

What thermostat do you have and where's the probe?

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Originally Posted by vivi

What thermostat do you have and where's the probe?

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I use two vivosun digital heat mat thermostats (the ones shown here: https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Therm.../dp/B015F4VFGI)
The probes are directly under the hides, beneath the substrate.
I use these thermometers: https://www.petsmart.com/fish/heatin...ml?cgid=300121
And this hygrometer: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0cfc5ccf75.jpg


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...0cfc5ccf75.jpg


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I have the thermostat probe inside the tank, is that the issue? Everything else matches my setup.

Probe should absolutely never go inside the cage for a UTH. Could have something to do with it. Goes outside between the heat pad and the bottom of the enclosure because inside it can get moved, peed on, water spilled, etc and will change the temperature regulation and could result in burns, fire, etc


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Probe should absolutely never go inside the cage for a UTH. Could have something to do with it. Goes outside between the heat pad and the bottom of the enclosure because inside it can get moved, peed on, water spilled, etc and will change the temperature regulation and could result in burns, fire, etc

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Bingo! I think this is your answer here to your wild temp fluctuations. Hope this helps you get back on the right track.

And if the enclosure is dipping to 70* on the cool side, that's TOO LOW. The 'cool side' for a BP should be about 78-80*,not below 75*. Sensing a chill can make snakes
refuse to feed, & for a BP, it doesn't take much anyway, to make them refuse. But hopefully when you get your thermostat probes set up correctly, this won't keep on
happening.

Thank you all so much! That’s probably definitely the issue. I will fix that right away!

I’d also insulate the tank if your house gets as cold as the low 60s. Get some foam insulation from Lowe’s and cover three sides and probably part of the top as well aside from any overhead heat you might be using.


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Ok, since I had to fuss with his tank, I went ahead and weighed him using our kitchen scale. He weighs 187g! I am in the process of moving the stat probes between the mat and glass beneath the tank as directed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I’d also insulate the tank if your house gets as cold as the low 60s. Get some foam insulation from Lowe’s and cover three sides and probably part of the top as well aside from any overhead heat you might be using.


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I am only using belly heat. I have a mesh top lid, so I have a piece of foam board covering that to provide insulation. I will set about covering the sides with some foam as well.

Sorry for the scatterbrained abundance of posts, I don't know how to edit my previous posts lol- but anyway, putting the probe between the bottom of the tank and the UTH helped DRAMATICALLY. Wow. It's coming up to temperature right now. I think his tank was colder than I thought it was, and that was probably why he was refusing and such a bad eater in the first place. I've added insulation on the back of his tank and one of the sides with the leftover foam I already had. Hopefully the temperature issue will resolve itself now that adjustments have been made. So glad I made this post. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smakemom

Sorry for the scatterbrained abundance of posts, I don't know how to edit my previous posts lol- but anyway, putting the probe between the bottom of the tank and the UTH helped DRAMATICALLY. Wow. It's coming up to temperature right now. I think his tank was colder than I thought it was, and that was probably why he was refusing and such a bad eater in the first place. I've added insulation on the back of his tank and one of the sides with the leftover foam I already had. Hopefully the temperature issue will resolve itself now that adjustments have been made. So glad I made this post. :)

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Awesome to hear and I'm glad you were open to everyone's advice! Make sure you take several temperature readings to make sure you have it where it needs to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smakemom

Sorry for the scatterbrained abundance of posts, I don't know how to edit my previous posts lol- but anyway, putting the probe between the bottom of the tank and the UTH helped DRAMATICALLY. Wow. It's coming up to temperature right now. I think his tank was colder than I thought it was, and that was probably why he was refusing and such a bad eater in the first place. I've added insulation on the back of his tank and one of the sides with the leftover foam I already had. Hopefully the temperature issue will resolve itself now that adjustments have been made. So glad I made this post. :)

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So is he....:snake: You aren't the first to put the probe in the wrong place & I'm sure you won't be the last. ;)

FYI, you only have a short time to edit your posts on this forum...like about five minutes (I've never timed it) after which the edit button (lower right of each post) disappears.

Insulation can be many things besides foam board, & if this is a glass tank, you can put up scenery first & insulate behind it if you like, not that your snake will care, lol. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

So is he....:snake: You aren't the first to put the probe in the wrong place & I'm sure you won't be the last. ;)

FYI, you only have a short time to edit your posts on this forum...like about five minutes (I've never timed it) after which the edit button (lower right of each post) disappears.

Insulation can be many things besides foam board, & if this is a glass tank, you can put up scenery first & insulate behind it if you like, not that your snake will care, lol. :gj:

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He does have some scenery, haha. My parents surprised me with a glass tank, some basic snake stuff, and a roll of desert wallpaper. I was also gifted a PetSmart card to buy the rest of his stuff with (there was a LOT they missed, but I'm delighted with what I got). I originally planned on getting a tub, and when he grows out of this tank I will probably switch to a tub.

I have one other concern now, though. Both thermostats are set to 98º but the hot side temp reads at 86-88º and the cold side temp reads at 76-78º. The temperature fluctuates much less now, but should I be worried about the heat mats I'm using since there's a 10º difference in setting on the hot side, and 20º difference in setting on the cold side? Or should I just leave it, since the correct temperatures have been achieved and appear to be stable? (I'll continue monitoring the temperatures throughout the day.)

My snake, Smake, ate! I added a dimmable ceramic heat emitter to the top of his tank. I've been controlling it manually but will look into getting a timer. I have it set to emit only a bit of warmth to lift the ambient temp up, and I turn it off at night to avoid disaster since I can't control the lamp's temp if I'm unconscious. After that, I offered him food a night later. He ate quickly and happily. It seems we're doing fine now! :)