Cloacal Opening - Is this normal?

Hello All,


I’m hoping to get some advice about my ball python, Smaug. I’ve never had Smaug sexed so I’m not sure whether male or female, but I got Smaug as a baby and have had him/her for about a year now. Yesterday when I picked him up for some cuddles I noticed the Cloacal opening looked somewhat dry and perhaps irritated. After soaking in a nice warm bath it looked somewhat better, but I’m concerned about Smaug’s health and want to be proactive if something is wrong. I would attach photos, but it seems the forum does not permit me to do so. Thank you!


Best,


Maggie

To post a picture you need to host it through a third party and than copy and paste the link here, or if you are using your phone simply dowload and use tapatalk.

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Originally Posted by Stewart_Reptiles

To post a picture you need to host it through a third party and than copy and paste the link here, or if you are using your phone simply dowload and use tapatalk.

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Doesn't look like a major concern to me. Did you happen to notice his most recent stool & urates? Might have been dryer & harder to expel than usual; urates sometimes
turn into stone-like 'marbles' of varying size that a snake might even need professional help to expel, so be sure he stays hydrated, & what is his cage humidity?

What sub-strate is he living on? If it's any sort of wood chips or aspen, you might re-think that, or at least be careful how you feed him so he doesn't ingest any such material along with his food. Snakes have great digestion for what they're SUPPOSED to eat, but cannot digest twigs & any kind of wood...they just don't have the enzymes to do so, and if swallowed, such things are apt to be very irritating to "pass", thus the sore-looking cloaca you're seeing.

I think it will be ok just left alone, but if you want you could also probably apply a little Vetericyn ointment (made for snakes, water based antiseptic) to his cloaca for now...just externally, & mostly it will rub off anyway. Just pay attention if there is any bleeding...might want to keep him on white paper towels for now, so any issues (blood) shows up.

I don't see anything alarming either.

But to be safe just be sure you're diligent with cleaning, make sure there's always clean water available and keep an eye on it.

Like Bogertophis mentioned, it may be a good idea to use paper towel for substrate in the meantime.

The only thing I could might attribute this to is dehydration. I haven't seen any recent stools or urinates in the terrarium when I combed through it yesterday. How can I assure he stays hydrated? More frequent soaking? I feed live, so there is not an opportunity to inject water like I've read on some of the other threads. I try to keep the terrarium moist and I keep terrarium moss within his "hidey hole," or cave. I've been considering a fogger for more consistent moisture. I've used this before with a previous ball python.

I keep the eco-earth coconut fiber in the terrarium as a substrate and do have a separate enclosure without any substrate for feeding.

Thank you for your advice! I will keep an eye on my little guy and keep you posted if you'd like :)

Actually, from your thread title, I thought he might be keeping his vent partially-open, so I'm glad that's not the case. I've seen photos of much worse-looking cloacas
(as far as looking sore & irritated), but it's great that you're paying attention to your sweet BP...that's what good "snarents" do. :gj:

Oh! What would be the cause or concern with the keeping of the cloaca open? It did sort of look like it was partially open, but soaking seemed to help.

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Originally Posted by MaggieMay91

Oh! What would be the cause or concern with the keeping of the cloaca open? It did sort of look like it was partially open, but soaking seemed to help.

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As I said, they can get urate stones (aka "cloacaliths"), which can cause a prolapse & even a need for surgery. So keep him eating & drinking & good humidity; if he's taking f/t, thaw in water & feed it damp if he'll take it that way. (he might not though, he's a BP, lol). And a soak can help too.

Snakes that form cloacaliths can also form more than one, btw. Some little ones may come out OK, but a larger one may get stuck, thus causing an issue with the vent (cloaca).

Like any sort of "constipation", it seems more likely to occur with snakes that are less active (like BPs), & also those whose living conditions tend to dehydrate them (the high temps. that BPs need). Their bodies evolved to deal with their living conditions, but as pets, they are less active...just keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by MaggieMay91

The only thing I could might attribute this to is dehydration. I haven't seen any recent stools or urinates in the terrarium when I combed through it yesterday. How can I assure he stays hydrated? More frequent soaking? I feed live, so there is not an opportunity to inject water like I've read on some of the other threads. I try to keep the terrarium moist and I keep terrarium moss within his "hidey hole," or cave. I've been considering a fogger for more consistent moisture. I've used this before with a previous ball python...

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One of the snakes I had many years ago (NOT a BP, btw) was elderly & prone to forming cloacaliths. What helped her to defecate (& expel the stones that formed) was to put her in my bathtub with shallow luke-warm water so that she could actually go thru the motions of swimming (with me right there of course). That motion, combined with the water, proved to be very "inspiring". Needless to say, my tub got rather messy, lol, but her relief was worth it. (I have also in the past helped a snake by removing a large cloacalith using some KY jelly to ease it out, but that is more of a job for your exotic vet.)

Cloacaliths aren't really very common in pet snakes...it's just that I've been keeping so many :snake: for so many years (including taking in rescues) that I've seen a few cases to know more about them.

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Originally Posted by MaggieMay91

...and do have a separate enclosure without any substrate for feeding...

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It's best for a snake's concentration on eating if they are fed where they live, not removed to another container. That handling will put many snakes off eating entirely, & while you might be getting away with it now, it's not a good practice. (trust me, I've heard all the "reasons" ppl give for doing this, ie. "cage aggression", yada yada) A snake that is hungry is way more likely to bite you when you handle it to move it elsewhere, & even MORE likely to bite you when you try to put them back, as they stay in 'feed mode' for hours or even a day or more. Your warm & wiggling hand will not always be respected as part of you, & not prey. :snake2:

BPs are snakes that are easily put off eating, especially as adults (around age 4), so what works ok now, might set you back later on. They are also "ambush-predators" by nature: they like to peek out of their hide in the evening & wait for clueless prey to stroll within reach. By moving your snake, you totally disrupt their natural instincts- & the only thing that picks up a snake in the wild is a predator that's about to eat THEM! Fear is not helpful to a snake's appetite. ;)

A much better way is to wait for their behavior (as just described) to signal their readiness to eat, then offer f/t prey from tongs with a slight jiggle to simulate "live". The prey must be properly thawed & have life-like warmth -many here use a hair-blow-dryer to give it that "finishing touch". ;) Feeding live prey, sooner or later your pretty snake will get bitten & potentially maimed (some lose eyes, & others die from resulting infections, always harder to treat in our cold-blooded pals). If that happens, even assuming he survives OK, you'll have the pleasure of seeing his scars for years to come, knowing they could have been prevented.

BTW, you can put something like a piece of cardboard or a large plastic lid over top of the substrate, ahead of time, near where your snake will feed, to help them keep substrate out of their mouth. A little bit won't usually matter anyway, but best avoided, as snakes have no enzymes to digest branches or other wood products.

Hmm, now I'm a concerned snake mom. I've always fed my snakes in a separate space outside of their terrarium and always live mice (sinaloan milk snake for 15 years and another ball python I've had for about 8 years). I've heard it can be difficult to switch to frozen if you have started them on live. Also, don't live contain more nutrients for your snake? I've never fed the ball python anything bigger then a rat pup and I've never had any injuries. I feel like I've been doing it wrong all these years! Am I a bad snake mom?!

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Originally Posted by MaggieMay91

Hmm, now I'm a concerned snake mom. I've always fed my snakes in a separate space outside of their terrarium and always live mice (sinaloan milk snake for 15 years and another ball python I've had for about 8 years). I've heard it can be difficult to switch to frozen if you have started them on live. Also, don't live contain more nutrients for your snake? I've never fed the ball python anything bigger then a rat pup and I've never had any injuries. I feel like I've been doing it wrong all these years! Am I a bad snake mom?!

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No...not bad, just misinformed. Social media spreads good & bad info, it can be hard to tell the difference but it's never to late to learn better ways. That's why we're here. :snake:

F/t rodents lose a little of their scent after being frozen & thawed, but most snakes adjust quite well, & you can just pinch-damage the nose w/ your tongs to release more scent.

Actually, depending on your snakes, many become better pets when fed f/t...a bit more relaxed & less ready to bite either in self defense (when you reach in) or out of confusion. Most snakes still grab & go thru the motions of constricting, but some will just eat "politely" from tongs...just depends on their personality as to how much they learn to let down their guard. ;)

Here's the thing though: a young BP can eat rat pups, but as snakes (including BPs) grow bigger, their nutritional needs are better met by larger (ADULT) rodents, because the adult rodents are less fatty, more protein & minerals from bigger bones & muscles. Live rodents do NOT have more nutrients, and besides that, they can give your snakes intestinal parasites-WORMS! which do not survive in frozen-thawed rodents. So you probably should get stool samples to your vet so you can see if any of your snakes need de-worming. ;)

You are correct that by feeding young rodents (rat pups) there was virtually no danger to your snake, but IF you were feeding the appropriate size (age) rodents, they sure would be.