Ball Python not eating

This is on a lot more than just him not eating I have quite a few issues with him. So I got this ball python back in early August of 2019 and when I first got him I realized he had a rectal prolapse. I read that this might just have been from a low humidity and since upping his humidity I’ve never had a problem with this since but i thought I would add it in just in case. He never eats and never sheds. He’s almost a year old and has only shed once. I soak him weekly, spot clean his tank, replace the soil monthly and try to feed him regularly but he rarely is interested in his mice. He has a hard time aiming at his mice. He frequently strikes but hits his head on the tank and more recently has bitten himself. He doesn’t act lethargic or malnourished. I feed him pinkies even though he is big enough to eat fuzzies because he doesn’t realize that he needs to turn the mouse and eat it head to tail. I’ve tried to feed him fuzzies and he did successfully get one down but he often tries to eat it from the side and you could imagine this doesn’t work out for him and he eventually just drops it. I try to feed him every three days and he was doing good until recently. I don’t really know what what I need to do. There’s just all of these little things that make him really difficult and I’m worried about his health. I was talking to the lady at the PetSmart where I got him and she just said that the breeder they get their snakes from isn’t the best and that it wouldn’t surprise her if he’s “messed up”. And like I talk to her a lot so maybe that’s why she felt comfortable say stuff like that to me but like I wished they would have given me advice rather than just saying they aren’t surprised. I know this is kind of long but I would really appreciate some advice. I don’t think he has a spider gene even though he does show some traits that they would have.

Ok, definitely a few things to fix. But in order to help you best we'll need some more info.

What size/type enclosure?
How are you heating the enclosure?

**VERY IMPORTANT** Are your heat sources regulated by a thermostat? Not a thermometer, but thermostat?

What are your temps and how are you measuring temps?
Are you handling the snake at all?

Answering those questions will be important to help you further.

But here's a few things that stand out immediately...

A) why are you soaking your snake?? There's no need to soak him. Especially weekly. All this is doing is stressing your snake.

B) pinkies are WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYY TOO SMALL for a BP. So are fuzzies. They eat hoppers from birth and typically only for their first 3-5 meals before moving up to small adult mice. Your snake may not be eating because he doesn't even recognize a pinkies as food. They are primarily water since they haven't developed at all yet, no nutrition at all.

C) offering food every 3 days is also not helping. You want to wait AT LEAST five days between offering. Since your poor snake has only eaten a handful of pinkies in a year, you really need to get him eating. And offering that often only stresses him more.

D) he's only shed once because he's extremely undernourished. He's got nothing in his body for nutrition so isn't growing. Shedding is pretty directly related to growth in juvenile snakes. No food = no nutrition = no growth = no shed.

Lastly, it sounds like you need to start from scratch learning how to care for your snake. Unfortunately, if you're relying on PetSmart employees to educate you they're usually pretty clueless and sadly under trained.

Here is a link to the basics...
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ius)-Caresheet

Here is a link to a feeding chart...
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ing-Guidelines

Please do your snake a favor and start doing some research that you should have done long before bringing your snake home.

Everything Craig said is on point, so I have nothing to add. I don´t know why you are soaking him at all or who told you to feed him pinkies...

However, I think I should note that depending on the morph he could have the spider gene.

https://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

If you post a picture we can tell you if it has the spider gene or not, it's pretty distinct.

If it's not a spider and has neuro issues then those are caused by everything from illness to overheating to exposure to chemicals.

I actually did research ball pythons before I got him. You make it sound like I just impulse bought him and threw him in a tank. I soak him weekly because he used to be wrinkly like he was going to shed but he never would and the wrinkles weren’t length-wise. Forums said that he might be dehydrated and that soaking him would fix that. His humidity is currently 60 and never drops below 50. His ambient temperature is in the high 70s and his basking temperature is 90. He is in a 20 gallon tank. For daytime I use a 100 watt for heat and at night I use a blue light. I am using a thermometer rather than a thermostat. If getting a thermostat will help then I’ll make the switch. I used to handle him more but recently no because I know it’s not good to mess with them at all until 2 days after they eat. Now as for the pinkies, this is where I failed: when I got him I asked the petsmart employees what size they had been feeding him and they said pinkies. After a few weeks read more and realized fuzzies would be better because it is the same size as the thickest part of his body but I could never get him to eat them not because he wasn’t interested but because he likes to eat everything side first and I have rarely been able to get him to eat them head to tail. He’s very sweet and timid and if I were to try to help him I’m certain he would drop it. He would always try to eat them but would give up because he doesn’t realize it would fit if he would turn it. So instead I kept feeding him pinkies but more frequently because that’s what was suggested. Btw the minimum days is 3 days in between feeding so it’s not too frequent especially since it was such a small meal. I think your taking what I’m saying in a way I don’t mean. I have tried everything with my snake and he has never gone more than a week without eating and it’s not because I just decided not to feed him or something, it’s because he would miss when he strikes and even then I would still try and sometimes it would work. If he didn’t eat a meal I would try again 2 days later and most of the time he would eat it. So the comment “your poor snake has only eaten a handful in a year”, is not true. I try everyday to make sure I’m doing everything I need to. I’ve taken him to vets and they always say that there is nothing wrong. I’ve tried to get him to eat bigger mice but he just likes eating everything sideways and I’ve never been able to get him to eat it differently. I’ve never just sat back and let him starve.

[QUOTE=bcr229;2731007]If you post a picture we can tell you if it has the spider gene or not, it's pretty distinct.

If it's not a spider and has neuro issues then those are caused by everything from illness to overheating to exposure to chemicals.[/
I can’t figure out how to post a picture on here but I think his morph is called a leopard. He just the kind you can get at any pet store. He is lovely and sweet. He never corkscrews or slithers upside down. He only has these problems when I go to feed him. If the mouse is to the right of him he’ll strike left instead.

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

I actually did research ball pythons before I got him. You make it sound like I just impulse bought him and threw him in a tank. I soak him weekly because he used to be wrinkly like he was going to shed but he never would and the wrinkles weren’t length-wise. Forums said that he might be dehydrated and that soaking him would fix that. His humidity is currently 60 and never drops below 50. His ambient temperature is in the high 70s and his basking temperature is 90. He is in a 20 gallon tank. For daytime I use a 100 watt for heat and at night I use a blue light. I am using a thermometer rather than a thermostat. If getting a thermostat will help then I’ll make the switch. I used to handle him more but recently no because I know it’s not good to mess with them at all until 2 days after they eat. Now as for the pinkies, this is where I failed: when I got him I asked the petsmart employees what size they had been feeding him and they said pinkies. After a few weeks read more and realized fuzzies would be better because it is the same size as the thickest part of his body but I could never get him to eat them not because he wasn’t interested but because he likes to eat everything side first and I have rarely been able to get him to eat them head to tail. He’s very sweet and timid and if I were to try to help him I’m certain he would drop it. He would always try to eat them but would give up because he doesn’t realize it would fit if he would turn it. So instead I kept feeding him pinkies but more frequently because that’s what was suggested. Btw the minimum days is 3 days in between feeding so it’s not too frequent especially since it was such a small meal. I think your taking what I’m saying in a way I don’t mean. I have tried everything with my snake and he has never gone more than a week without eating and it’s not because I just decided not to feed him or something, it’s because he would miss when he strikes and even then I would still try and sometimes it would work. If he didn’t eat a meal I would try again 2 days later and most of the time he would eat it. So the comment “your poor snake has only eaten a handful in a year”, is not true. I try everyday to make sure I’m doing everything I need to. I’ve taken him to vets and they always say that there is nothing wrong. I’ve tried to get him to eat bigger mice but he just likes eating everything sideways and I’ve never been able to get him to eat it differently. I’ve never just sat back and let him starve.

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Alright. Well I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm going to be blunt. Fifteen minutes of google searching will tell you the MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT you can have is a THERMOSTAT.
Without one you're risking dangerous heat spikes that can lead to horrible burns, neurological problems and even death.
Every decent care sheet mentions a thermostat.

Anybody telling you to feed a pinkie mouse to a ball python is clueless and you should learn elsewhere. But, just like a thermostat, appropriately sized prey is something you research BEFORE bringing an animal home. That only takes a few minutes of googling as well. Fuzzies are also WAY TOO SMALL.
Look at the feeding chart I linked...no pinkies or fuzzies anywhere on it.


As for soaking...maybe he's dehydrated because he HAS NO NUTRITION in him. And rather than just put a band-aid on the problem by soaking, why not actually FIX THE PROBLEM???

And yes, offering food too often DOES stress the animal and lead to further refusals. I've had thousands of feedings with over a dozen snakes over about 15 years. I, and any other experienced keeper, will tell you that you should only be offering every 5 days at least. You even said yourself the minimum is three days, yet though u were offering after two. So you're even breaking your own rules that are wrong.... But yeah...

Your snake is trying to eat anything it can to survive. But you're feeding it basically a sip of water. That'd be like us surviving on a glass of water a day.

So maybe reconsider your sources, they're clearly not reputable sources.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Alright. Well I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm going to be blunt. Fifteen minutes of google searching will tell you the MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT you can have is a THERMOSTAT.
Without one you're risking dangerous heat spikes that can lead to horrible burns, neurological problems and even death.
Every decent care sheet mentions a thermostat.

Anybody telling you to feed a pinkie mouse to a ball python is clueless and you should learn elsewhere. But, just like a thermostat, appropriately sized prey is something you research BEFORE bringing an animal home. That only takes a few minutes of googling as well. Fuzzies are also WAY TOO SMALL.
Look at the feeding chart I linked...no pinkies or fuzzies anywhere on it.


As for soaking...maybe he's dehydrated because he HAS NO NUTRITION in him. And rather than just put a band-aid on the problem by soaking, why not actually FIX THE PROBLEM???

And yes, offering food too often DOES stress the animal and lead to further refusals. I've had thousands of feedings with over a dozen snakes over about 15 years. I, and any other experienced keeper, will tell you that you should only be offering every 5 days at least. You even said yourself the minimum is three days, yet though u were offering after two. So you're even breaking your own rules that are wrong.... But yeah...

Your snake is trying to eat anything it can to survive. But you're feeding it basically a sip of water. That'd be like us surviving on a glass of water a day.

So maybe reconsider your sources, they're clearly not reputable sources.

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I said if he didn’t eat when offered I would try again 2 days later. It’s not like I’m not willing to feed him bigger mice. If you can tell me how to get him to eat hopper mice then I will gladly do it. I rather feed him mice too small frequently rather than try to force him to eat bigger mice that he just drops. I should have named this something different because he does eat but I just can’t get him to eat bigger mice. After the one time he shed the wrinkles have never come back. He’s actually kinda chunky for his size but he’s small for his age. I wish i could figure out how to post a picture of him because he looks greatly and is very active. I’m not gunna say I did nothing wrong I know I fail somewhere but I have never starved my snake. So please if you know how to get him to eat bigger prey without him dropping it I would love your input.

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

I said if he didn’t eat when offered I would try again 2 days later. It’s not like I’m not willing to feed him bigger mice. If you can tell me how to get him to eat hopper mice then I will gladly do it. I rather feed him mice too small frequently rather than try to force him to eat bigger mice that he just drops. I should have named this something different because he does eat but I just can’t get him to eat bigger mice. After the one time he shed the wrinkles have never come back. He’s actually kinda chunky for his size but he’s small for his age. I’m not gunna say I did nothing wrong I know I fail somewhere but I have never starved my snake. So please if you know how to get him to eat bigger prey without him dropping it I would love your input.

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Have you TRIED bigger prey???? From what you said you've only tried pinkies and hoppers.

I honestly want to help you here, I'm passionate about these animals and love helping people enjoy theirs.

But you're going to have to basically forget everything you know about feeding. Wherever you learned is a million percent wrong. So let's work together from scratch.

Oh, and PLEASE unplug your UTH until you get a THERMOSTAT.

There are so many things it's hard to know where to start

Shed is related to growth, if the animal does not eat or does not eat sufficiently it will not grow at a normal rate and therefore will not shed at a normal rate

Pinkies and fuzzies are COLUBRID food even a BP out of the egg will take a hopper and quickly move to adult mice. They are not only inadequate as far as nutritional value but they are also rarely recognize a prey item.

Feeding issues in a young animal are at 90% husbandry related, young individuals aside from a few exceptions are VORACIOUS eaters, and if there is an issue it should be addressed with 6 to 8 weeks of acquiring the animal.

Addressing the issue and getting the animal as fast as possible is very important as it becomes a vicious circle, the less the animal eats, the less it wants to eat until it reaches the point of no return.

You are also trying to hard if you have a refusal you DO NOT offer 2 to 3 days later, that's counter productive.

So let's start with the basics

What is the weight of your snake?

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

I said if he didn’t eat when offered I would try again 2 days later. It’s not like I’m not willing to feed him bigger mice. If you can tell me how to get him to eat hopper mice then I will gladly do it. I rather feed him mice too small frequently rather than try to force him to eat bigger mice that he just drops. I should have named this something different because he does eat but I just can’t get him to eat bigger mice. After the one time he shed the wrinkles have never come back. He’s actually kinda chunky for his size but he’s small for his age. I wish i could figure out how to post a picture of him because he looks greatly and is very active. I’m not gunna say I did nothing wrong I know I fail somewhere but I have never starved my snake. So please if you know how to get him to eat bigger prey without him dropping it I would love your input.

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Please stop trying to justify yourself and take the advice. I think you are underestimating the strength of a snake. Hatchlings can take bigger mice than pinkies OUT OF THE EGG. And as Craig said before you need to wait at least 5 days before offering food again!

I don´t even have a snake! And while I do trust you did research, it doesn´t sound like you did nearly enough.

Okay I’m going to the store as we speak. I’ll get a thermostat and hoppers. If he takes the hopper I will thank you profusely because honestly all I want is for my baby to be healthy but if not I’m gunna ask for your help again. Should I try to feed him right when i get home, when it gets dark, or ?

When was the last time you offered food to him? If it was less than 5 days ago, wait, and when it has been 5 days feed at dusk or nighttime.

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

Okay I’m going to the store as we speak. I’ll get a thermostat and hoppers. If he takes the hopper I will thank you profusely because honestly all I want is for my baby to be healthy but if not I’m gunna ask for your help again. Should I try to feed him right when i get home, when it gets dark, or ?

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I think a hopper will still be too small, but at least it's something.

We'll get you on track... When did you last offer food? When did he last eat?

Getting hoppers is not gonna be the magic solution, the issue is likely due to multiple issues that need to be resolved before the next feeding.

So again start with the basic what is your snake weight?

Until than there is no point to buy food as you will most likely have to make some changes and give it at least a week before even offering food.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I think a hopper will still be too small, but at least it's something.

We'll get you on track... When did you last offer food? When did he last eat?

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I offered him food yesterday but the last time he ate was Wednesday.

Deborah has already asked twice, do you have any idea what his weight is?

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Originally Posted by vivi

Deborah has already asked twice, do you have any idea what his weight is?

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I don’t know how much he weighs and I don’t have a scale.

I would get one.

Okay so I asked them what size mouse was a hopper because after fuzzies it just says small to large and they told me that hoppers are mouse fuzzies but that’s not what the internet says. Would the small be a hopper? I opened the box and they look to be about 1-1 1/2 inches.

After fuzzies, its hoppers, after hoppers, its small mice.
Hoppers are hoppers. Small mice are small mice. Fuzzies are fuzzies. Don´t feed anything smaller than a hopper.

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Originally Posted by vivi

After fuzzies, its hoppers, after hoppers, its small mice.
Hoppers are hoppers. Small mice are small mice. Fuzzies are fuzzies. Don´t feed anything smaller than a hopper.

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Okay in that case they don’t sell them or at least don’t have them labeled as that but the small mice look just like a hopper so should I just go with a small mouse?

Hi,

One question I haven't seen asked is how you prepare the snake and the meal before hand.

With mine I found that letting them defrost near the enclosure lets the snake know a meal is on the way. The eating sideways raises the thought that maybe you need to heat the head of the prey more ( that is generally how they key in on the head of the prey animal) with mine, once it is defrosted, I heat the head region with a hairdrier.

This has a dual purpose - it wafts the scent of the prey around a lot more just before offering, and it gives them a clear hotspot on the animal to aim for when presented.

Hope this helps.


*ETA* yes I would try the small mouse.

del

Yeah, definitely go with the small mouse. I would wait til Tues or Wednesday though.

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

I don’t know how much he weighs and I don’t have a scale.

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That is where you need to start, get a scale, get the weight.

Not only will it give us an idea on what prey you need but it will also affect what you need to do when it comes to husbandry changes because there is a high possibility that changes will be required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

One question I haven't seen asked is how you prepare the snake and the meal before hand.

With mine I found that letting them defrost near the enclosure lets the snake know a meal is on the way. The eating sideways raises the thought that maybe you need to heat the head of the prey more ( that is generally how they key in on the head of the prey animal) with mine, once it is defrosted, I heat the head region with a hairdrier.

This has a dual purpose - it wafts the scent of the prey around a lot more just before offering, and it gives them a clear hotspot on the animal to aim for when presented.

Hope this helps.


*ETA* yes I would try the small mouse.

del

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I thaw them in hot water for about 10 minutes or until thawed all the way through. I’ll try the hairdryer method the next time I feed him. Something I forgot to mention though, he doesnt immediately strike. He likes to rub his face on the mouse and then bites it. I don’t know if that is worth mentioning but I’ve always thought it was odd.

Will any scale do? My boyfriend has a scale somewhere that we used to measure livestock feed. I’m not sure what it was supposed to be for but I’ll find it if that’s the kind I need.

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

Will any scale do? My boyfriend has a scale somewhere that we used to measure livestock feed. I’m not sure what it was supposed to be for but I’ll find it if that’s the kind I need.

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If it measures grams it'll do the trick. Many of us use kitchen scales. I got mine from Walmart a few years ago and I think it was$20.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

If it measures grams it'll do the trick. Many of us use kitchen scales. I got mine from Walmart a few years ago and I think it was$20.

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Craiga I owe you one heck of an apology. So I went against your advice about when to feed because he was acting like he would eat so I went ahead and heated up of those small mice. He grabbed it immediately and ate it head to tail like a champ. Thank you so much and I’m sorry I didn’t believe you. �� I’m going to weigh him in two days so that I don’t mess with his schedule and stress him out. Should I start feeding him every 5 days?

Many of the older member here have been doing this for a long time, some as hobby and others as business.
Research is your friend. ;)

Glad he ate for you! Have you gotten a thermostat yet?

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Originally Posted by vivi

Glad he ate for you! Have you gotten a thermostat yet?

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yes, his ambient temperature is exactly 81 degrees and the basking temp is 93 currently.

What are the cool side temps at?

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Originally Posted by vivi

What are the cool side temps at?

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the cool side is 77

Cool. Props to you for seeking advice.

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

yes, his ambient temperature is exactly 81 degrees and the basking temp is 93 currently.

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Are you talking thermoSTAT or thermoMETER?

Thermometer measures temps while thermostat regulates temps.

93 is a bit too high as well. I aim for 88-89, but never above 90.

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

Craiga I owe you one heck of an apology. So I went against your advice about when to feed because he was acting like he would eat so I went ahead and heated up of those small mice. He grabbed it immediately and ate it head to tail like a champ. Thank you so much and I’m sorry I didn’t believe you. �� I’m going to weigh him in two days so that I don’t mess with his schedule and stress him out. Should I start feeding him every 5 days?

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Hahahahha, no apologies necessary. I'm happy to help.

I'd stick to a 7 day schedule. Definitely give him 7 days after this meal since it's larger than he's used to. Going too fast can lead to a regurgitation, and then you're worse off than before. Be patient, patience is important when keeping snakes.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Are you talking thermoSTAT or thermoMETER?

Thermometer measures temps while thermostat regulates temps.

93 is a bit too high as well. I aim for 88-89, but never above 90.

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yes a thermostat. I checked those temperature shortly after setting it all up. They are probably different now. I’ve never used one before though so maybe I’m doing something wrong?

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Originally Posted by elisemiller

yes a thermostat. I checked those temperature shortly after setting it all up. They are probably different now. I’ve never used one before though so maybe I’m doing something wrong?

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Ok awesome :gj:
I don't mean to second guess you, but you'd probably be surprised how often people make that mistake.

Keep an eye on your temps and get them dialed in. You're on the right track :gj:

Don't be shy if you've got more questions!