Scabbed, Thinning Scales Around Spine + Infected(?) Eye

Hello,

I have a spider ball python (around 3 years old) who is currently having some issues. I just got back from my college (8 hour drive from my home) and my parents have been taking care of my snakes. I'm unsure of when this began happening. All I know if that I noticed it today during feeding. My ball python has multiple (presumably scabs) or horribly dry, lumpy scales around his spine. These don't show up on the bottom or the sides. He's always been a petite snake but he seems skinnier than usual. I don't have a gram scale so I cannot weigh him, but he doesn't seem as plump as he usually is. Along with this, he has a gross, scabby cast over one of his eyes. I'm unsure if it's from multiple stuck sheds or an eye infection. He moved around quite a bit when I took him out but refuses to eat. I've only tried today; but even when he's shedding he usually eats. At first, however, he seemed interested. He pointed his nose towards the mouse and inched closer to it but retracted when it sniffed him. (He's live fed).

I don't know how this could've happened because I wasn't there when it began. He had the average half-cylindrical logs for hiding in; nothing that would tear apart his scales. Right now he has stuck shed, which isn't usual for him but it has happened so I wasn't worried initially when I saw him. Upon closer inspection, though, I saw all the red scabs.

Here's pictures. Notice the white spacing on the back. Those aren't normal and I believe they're the scales separating around that area:


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...8D3/image4.jpg


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ySH/image3.jpg


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...Yc3/image2.jpg


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...XqG/image1.jpg


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...bdq/image0.jpg

Any ideas of what this could be? An appointment has been set up with a general vet tomorrow at 9:30 AM CT but I don't know how helpful they'll be since exotic animals aren't all too common; especially snakes. I need a better understanding of this in order to help him, if I'm able to.

Thanks in advance.

The pics are a little blurry, but is it possible a live rat was left in there with him for too long? He almost looks chewed on. Or maybe burned? Is the heat source on a thermostat? He's definitely got some stuck shed too. Poor baby [emoji26] I'm glad you have an appointment

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As much as you probably don't want to hear it, it looks like neglect to me. That animal should not have been left like that for however long it's been going on. Injuries and things happen, but that animal should have seen a vet long ago. And had you not come home from school (I'm assuming your school is shut down indefinitely?) when you did it may have been too late.

Good luck with the vet appt. I hope you can get him back on track before heading back to school.

And for the animals sake, I'd be finding someone new to care for the snake while you're gone...or unfortunately re-home him. Leaving him in the condition he's in is unfair. Your parents clearly don't have the animals best interest at heart, and he deserves better.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

As much as you probably don't want to hear it, it looks like neglect to me. That animal should not have been left like that for however long it's been going on. Injuries and things happen, but that animal should have seen a vet long ago. And had you not come home from school (I'm assuming your school is shut down indefinitely?) when you did it may have been too late.

Good luck with the vet appt. I hope you can get him back on track before heading back to school.

And for the animals sake, I'd be finding someone new to care for the snake while you're gone...or unfortunately re-home him. Leaving him in the condition he's in is unfair. Your parents clearly don't have the animals best interest at heart, and he deserves better.

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Agree, he looks so skinny too [emoji24]

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Those look like bites from a rodent. Im guessing your parents leave the mouse in and walk out before feeding is done. Not good. Prekilled is a safer method.

Also, stuck shed may be normal for you, but it shouldn't be. That means your husbandry is off. Not enough humidity. I can definitely see stuck eye caps.



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According to my parents, he hasn't eaten in 2 months. I do believe they may have left a live mouse or rat in there and that could be it. I know they've done it before, even when I say it's dangerous to do that. It's hard to put a foot down from hundreds of miles away. My other two ball pythons are perfectly healthy. I'm not sure what went wrong with this one when they were caring for him. I told them that he doesn't eat rats because he's small enough to fill up on mice, so they shouldn't have put a rat in with him anyway. (Whether they did or not, I have no idea-- but a mouse could do that much damage if it was aggressive enough). All snakes are fed separately so it makes sense for only one to be bitten up if put in with an aggressive mouse/rat.

As far as giving him up to another owner, that all depends. My college is shut down and it might be for the rest of the semester seeing how this panic is going. I'm going to be switching colleges as well as I want to get into another major, and may end up staying home as opposed to a dorm. This means I can watch over my own snakes again instead of them doing so. If it isn't extremely costly, I can work with him to heal him. The eye is my main worry since if those are just scabs, they will go away as long as they're taken care of properly and not injected. Another worry is the fact he's not eating. If there is something I can do, I will try but if not, I'm not going to let him suffer anymore. I don't want to see him die so young.

And my parents aren't doing this on purpose. They didn't know. Of course they don't care for them as much as I do, and they don't spend time in my room so they're not always looking. But they're not evil. They're just very inexperienced, and sadly that was at a cost.

What kind of heat is used on his enclosure? Those could also be burns if heat is from above, also low humidity. Poor snake...and live rodents left alone with a snake should NEVER happen. :mad: A rodent gets hungry and WILL chew on a snake; a snake that's not hungry generally doesn't not fight back...in the wild they
just move on (& they follow their instincts), but in a cage they obviously cannot do that...they just get injured or killed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nixon

According to my parents, he hasn't eaten in 2 months. I do believe they may have left a live mouse or rat in there and that could be it. I know they've done it before, even when I say it's dangerous to do that. It's hard to put a foot down from hundreds of miles away. My other two ball pythons are perfectly healthy. I'm not sure what went wrong with this one when they were caring for him. I told them that he doesn't eat rats because he's small enough to fill up on mice, so they shouldn't have put a rat in with him anyway. (Whether they did or not, I have no idea-- but a mouse could do that much damage if it was aggressive enough). All snakes are fed separately so it makes sense for only one to be bitten up if put in with an aggressive mouse/rat.

As far as giving him up to another owner, that all depends. My college is shut down and it might be for the rest of the semester seeing how this panic is going. I'm going to be switching colleges as well as I want to get into another major, and may end up staying home as opposed to a dorm. This means I can watch over my own snakes again instead of them doing so. If it isn't extremely costly, I can work with him to heal him. The eye is my main worry since if those are just scabs, they will go away as long as they're taken care of properly and not injected. Another worry is the fact he's not eating. If there is something I can do, I will try but if not, I'm not going to let him suffer anymore. I don't want to see him die so young.

And my parents aren't doing this on purpose. They didn't know. Of course they don't care for them as much as I do, and they don't spend time in my room so they're not always looking. But they're not evil. They're just very inexperienced, and sadly that was at a cost.

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I'm not saying they're evil, or bad people in any way. However, as adults they should know when something is wrong and do the right thing about it. And since they accepted the responsibility of caring for the snakes, that means learning about them, putting in the effort and caring for them properly. It's not a lack of experience, it's a lack of responsibility. Otherwise simply say they don't want to keep the snake and find him a proper home.
You're a college kid, you knew something was wrong and you're acting on it, kudos to you. You're acting more grown up and responsible than your folks.

Good luck to you. Please know I'm not bashing your folks, I don't know a single thing about them other than what this thread reads. They're clearly not interested in taking responsibility, and that's perfectly fine. However, caring for them in the half hearted manner they are isn't fair to the animals.
I truly wish you and your snakes the best.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

What kind of heat is used on his enclosure? Those could also be burns if heat is from above, also low humidity. Poor snake...and live rodents left alone with a snake should NEVER happen. :mad: A rodent gets hungry and WILL chew on a snake; a snake that's not hungry generally doesn't not fight back...in the wild they
just move on (& they follow their instincts), but in a cage they obviously cannot do that...they just get injured or killed.

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Oh, yeah, sorry that I forgot to mention it. It's a heat pad. I know the dangers of using one but I had issues with the heat lamps since they'd burn out in less than a month and were $15 each. It was getting really expensive. I try to make a thick layer of bedding so it isn't as hot but it condensed and gets moved around overtime. They have logs on both a cool and warm side in case they get too hot. The only way those could be burns is if he laid upside down on it with direct contact to it. Looking at the cage now, there's about 2 inches of bedding covering the heat pad. I felt over the hottest spot and it's a very mild warmth; certainly not enough to burn.

Can you tell us specifics about his husbandry? Temps, humidity, substrate, caging type?



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I don't know specifics for temperature and humidity because I don't have readers. Just know there's a hot, or warm end and a cool end. I spray the cage with warm or lukewarm water 2-3 times a day to keep humidity up. He's in a 20 gallon tank and has pine wood shavings as a substrate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nixon

I don't know specifics for temperature and humidity because I don't have readers. Just know there's a hot, or warm end and a cool end. I spray the cage with warm or lukewarm water 2-3 times a day to keep humidity up. He's in a 20 gallon tank and has pine wood shavings as a substrate.

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Ok, well maybe I was wrong....

Maybe these animals need a new home regardless. You don't even know your temps?? No wonder your parents didn't know what to do. The person responsible for teaching them doesn't know how to properly care for them...

Im sure there are other with more experience than me who will chime in, but there are a lot of red flags there.

You need to know exact temps, as it doesnt take much to be too hot or too cold for a bp.

You also need a humidity gauge, as obviously your tank is way too dry, thats why he isnt shedding properly.

Shavings shouldnt be used as they dont hold humidity and mold when wet.


Im not criticizing you in any way. I myself had a bp years ago and did not do great with husbandry, but have learned a lot since then.



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If you search this site, there is great info on bedding, thermometer, thermostat, etc choices. There are people on here who are very knowledgeable and helpful that we can learn from. Our snakes all deserve wonderful and proper care, and its up to us to learn and provide it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Ok, well maybe I was wrong....

Maybe these animals need a new home regardless. You don't even know your temps?? No wonder your parents didn't know what to do. The person responsible for teaching them doesn't know how to properly care for them...

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While I understand that husbandry is important, you have no place to tell me I'm a bad owner. I worked my ass off years ago trying to help my ball python recover from slipped skin disease. I care about my animals, and it's not full on full on neglect to not have a thermometer and a tracker for the humidity. I've seen snake breeders shove their living animals into small boxes with paper bedding and they get praised. So don't shun me for not having the perfect husbandry. If you can't get your point across respectfully, then just get out and leave this thread alone.

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TurningStar;

Thank you for taking a more respectful approach to it. I'll look into going to Petsmart tomorrow and getting gauges. If better bedding isn't horribly expensive, I'll get some. But as of the corona virus nonsense, I'm not getting paid from my part time job. Hell, I haven't even gotten my first paycheck because for some reason the first pay isn't direct deposit.

Reptibark, coco coir or even cypress mulch are good at retaining humidity and can be found inexpensively. You can also make a humid hide out of a tupperware container and damp sphagnum moss. Place it in the cage for them to utilize whenever needed.

I use thermostats from amazon for about $20. Not everyone recommends them, but I havent had any issues with our 3 snakes and tortoise.
You can also get a point and shoot laser thermometer on amazon or walgreens for about $10.

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New bedding is a definite must. Pine has oils that are extremely harmful to snakes and will only exacerbate any existing issues. I personally would consider removing the substrate and using a few layers of paper towels, both to keep the wound clean and easier to monitor, but also to replace the pine if you can't afford a better substrate.

Knowing the exact numbers for your Temps and humidity is also important though. Especially with an under tank heater. They are notorious for getting too hot and burning reptiles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that since you don't have temp or humidity sensors that you don't have a thermostat?

Some of these fixes are slightly on the pricey side, but it's going to be very important in helping your snake recover. I get money being tight. I'm a single mom that can't reasonably work until the schools open again. Still, if you take the responsibility for a life, it's up to you to either provide it with what it needs, or surrender it to someone who can. Just my two cents. I hope your baby gets better, and I hope you find a way to afford the needed changes.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nixon

While I understand that husbandry is important, you have no place to tell me I'm a bad owner. I worked my ass off years ago trying to help my ball python recover from slipped skin disease. I care about my animals, and it's not full on full on neglect to not have a thermometer and a tracker for the humidity. I've seen snake breeders shove their living animals into small boxes with paper bedding and they get praised. So don't shun me for not having the perfect husbandry. If you can't get your point across respectfully, then just get out and leave this thread alone.

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TurningStar;

Thank you for taking a more respectful approach to it. I'll look into going to Petsmart tomorrow and getting gauges. If better bedding isn't horribly expensive, I'll get some. But as of the corona virus nonsense, I'm not getting paid from my part time job. Hell, I haven't even gotten my first paycheck because for some reason the first pay isn't direct deposit.

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You may care about your animals, but unless you're willing and able to provide proper homes and care for them it's not fair to the animals. YOU have a choice, THEY do not.

Yes, breeders do use racks and provide little as far as space or enrichment, but I guarantee they know their temps and their heating equipment is regulated by thermostats.
That's because they do it the right way. With the safety of the animals being top priority.

I'm not saying you're a bad owner, I'm just saying you should have been prepared and set your enclosures up properly. There's a reason EVERY SINGLE CARE SHEET talks about temperature... because it's IMPORTANT to the well being of the animal. If you can't be bothered to spend ten bucks on thermometers then maybe it's time to reconsider keeping them.
I saw above you're planning on going to PetSmart. Save yourself some money and go to Walmart or Amazon and buy decent digital thermometer/hygrometer combos. I use Accurite brand, but there are others you can use.
However, you made no mention of buying thermostats. They're literally the most important piece of equipment you can have.
Google snake burns if you need to, but unregulated heating equipment can burn your snake, cause neurological damage or even be fatal.

And unless you get the right equipment and start keeping the animals properly it's inevitable that you'll have more vet trips in your future. And since your a college kid earning a part time paycheck that may not be possible.

I'm not bashing you, I'm teaching you. And if you aren't able to hear constructive criticism you'll never improve. I may not wrap everything in rainbows and bunny rabbits, but what I say is true. It's our responsibility as keepers to keep them the best way we can. That means buying proper equipment before buying animals. That means teaching the people watching our snakes how to properly care for them.
But it starts with us, and the animals don't get a choice.

Looking at it for a while I see stuck shed and scrapes down the back.

I'd try a soak in warm water ( around 86f - and only deep enough to come half way up his body. about 20 minutes is long enough to start to loosten the skin) and then trying to remove the shed from his head and back so you can get a better idea of what you are dealing with. Then you will be in a better position to judge his overall condition.