Question about Eggs

If I don't ever breed my ball python, would they still lay eggs? Even if they were just slugs? I am not entirely sure of my new Ball Python's gender, but I was curious that if it turned out to be a girl, would she still lay eggs without any other male Ball Pythons in the house, and she has never been bred? I just got my first ball python as a pet, and I wasn't sure if it was like other reptiles that will sometimes still lay clutches of eggs even when no other males are around.

In some species of snakes it is common. In many reptiles it is standard.
It is rare (but, not impossible) for a ball python to have parthenogenesis and lay viable eggs without mating.
It is more common (but, still uncommon) for a ball python female to have an internal hormone imbalance that results in slug eggs being produced.
If you would like to have viable eggs: I recommend getting your ball python sexed and buying a potential mate. :)

It's called parthenogensis, and it can happen with ball pythons, but it's not likely.

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Originally Posted by wnateg

It's called parthenogensis, and it can happen with ball pythons, but it's not likely.

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It's only called parthenogenesis if they develop & hatch (in the case of egg-laying snakes) or if they're born (in the case of live-bearing snakes). Some snakes just produce non-viable "eggs" without any coming to life. Either way, snakes that produce eggs when you don't want them to reproduce is a hassle because you'll be feeding lots more food with no "return" on your investment & worse, there's always a chance the snake can become egg-bound, & either need vet help or even die as a result.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's only called parthenogenesis if they develop & hatch (in the case of egg-laying snakes) or if they're born (in the case of live-bearing snakes). Some snakes just produce non-viable "eggs" without any coming to life. Either way, snakes that produce eggs when you don't want them to reproduce is a hassle because you'll be feeding lots more food with no "return" on your investment & worse, there's always a chance the snake can become egg-bound, & either need vet help or even die as a result.

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Wow! That is fascinating. Slightly off topic from the original question, but would the offspring of a parthenogenetic clutch be genetically identical to the mother? Basically like a bunch of little clones? Would they be visually identical to the mother too? That is SO interesting, I didn't know that was possible!

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Originally Posted by MamaRhea

Wow! That is fascinating. Slightly off topic from the original question, but would the offspring of a parthenogenetic clutch be genetically identical to the mother? Basically like a bunch of little clones? Would they be visually identical to the mother too? That is SO interesting, I didn't know that was possible!

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Not quite. It used to be thought they would be clones, but it's more complicated than that & "above my pay grade" to explain. Search & you'll see...;)

Many years ago, an older rosy boa that I took in from a museum (long-term captive there) had an offspring (it was assumed) via parthenogenesis, sadly with many defects from which she passed at the age of 8 months. She was so small & weak when born, I was amazed that she lived past the first week, but by 8 mos. I was really pulling for her.

And I currently have 2.2 c/b Florida rat snakes (yellow x gulf hammock x ?) that I've had for over 10 years (about 1.5 yrs old when I took them in) & every year both females lay double clutches of eggs, some of which are obvious slugs but many of which "appear" to be good eggs. Last summer, I decided to incubate the "good" eggs and 3 of them HATCHED! One has spinal defects but all are eating & thriving, & all are different in appearance. Now I am assuming these are the result of parthenogenesis (again, it has not been scientifically proven by tests) but if they're not, then that's gotta be the longest retention of viable sperm/unplanned mating (at age 1.5 yrs)...? :O These snakes (now big adults) have never mated since they've been with me...they don't even live in the same room, much less hang out in the same cages for any contact. By the way, there were several other fully-formed snakes that failed to successfully emerge from their eggs, & while one was visibly defective, the others appeared quite normal, though you cannot always tell from appearances...internal abnormalities may also happen. I do wish these adult females would quit doing this...the first clutches are typically 20-27 eggs, & the second clutch is somewhere in the mid-teens, from EACH of them. I'll let you know if I ever find their "off" switch, lol. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Not quite. It used to be thought they would be clones, but it's more complicated than that & "above my pay grade" to explain. Search & you'll see...;)

Many years ago, an older rosy boa that I took in from a museum (long-term captive there) had an offspring (it was assumed) via parthenogenesis, sadly with many defects from which she passed at the age of 8 months. She was so small & weak when born, I was amazed that she lived past the first week, but by 8 mos. I was really pulling for her.

And I currently have 2.2 c/b Florida rat snakes (yellow x gulf hammock x ?) that I've had for over 10 years (about 1.5 yrs old when I took them in) & every year both females lay double clutches of eggs, some of which are obvious slugs but many of which "appear" to be good eggs. Last summer, I decided to incubate the "good" eggs and 3 of them HATCHED! One has spinal defects but all are eating & thriving, & all are different in appearance. Now I am assuming these are the result of parthenogenesis (again, it has not been scientifically proven by tests) but if they're not, then that's gotta be the longest retention of viable sperm/unplanned mating (at age 1.5 yrs)...? :O These snakes (now big adults) have never mated since they've been with me...they don't even live in the same room, much less hang out in the same cages for any contact. By the way, there were several other fully-formed snakes that failed to successfully emerge from their eggs, & while one was visibly defective, the others appeared quite normal, though you cannot always tell from appearances...internal abnormalities may also happen. I do wish these adult females would quit doing this...the first clutches are typically 20-27 eggs, & the second clutch is somewhere in the mid-teens, from EACH of them. I'll let you know if I ever find their "off" switch, lol. :rolleyes:

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Oh my god!!!!! Wow yeah I am definitely going to do some research on that, just for fun/learnings sake. That is honestly one of the wildest things I have ever heard. Sad that it seems like most of the babies are born with issues that make it difficult of not impossible to survive. I also didn't know that double clutches were possible, so I am learning all kinds of fun facts today LOL. That has got to take up a TON of energy from them to produce that many eggs every year! May I see pictures of the babies? By spinal defects I assume you mean like a kink of some kind? Sorry for all the questions :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's only called parthenogenesis if they develop & hatch (in the case of egg-laying snakes) or if they're born (in the case of live-bearing snakes). Some snakes just produce non-viable "eggs" without any coming to life. Either way, snakes that produce eggs when you don't want them to reproduce is a hassle because you'll be feeding lots more food with no "return" on your investment & worse, there's always a chance the snake can become egg-bound, & either need vet help or even die as a result.

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I am just worried about them potentially becoming egg-bound. But is it common for them to lay non viable eggs every year or on a regular schedule, or do they usually not even get "gravid" if they haven't been bred?

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Originally Posted by PaulBython

I am just worried about them potentially becoming egg-bound. But is it common for them to lay non viable eggs every year or on a regular schedule, or do they usually not even get "gravid" if they haven't been bred?

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Many years ago I "lost" (died prematurely) a young king snake (under 2 years old) to egg-binding. She had never mated, I got her as a hatchling, & the issue was not readily apparent either, until it was too late. Even surgery is risky, it's not something many vets do often, especially on such small snakes, so I understand your desire to avoid this.

As I explained about my large Florida rat snakes, they do "automatic shipments" :rolleyes: every year, late spring/early summer (each does a double clutch, the second one about 2 months after the first one); I always assumed the eggs were non-viable since I KNOW they haven't mated but every year, some eggs were obvious slugs (yellowish in color, often smaller or mis-shaped, sometimes moist/slimy/soft...) while quite a few eggs appeared* viable (white, full-size, firm & correctly shaped). *I know what good snake eggs look like, I've bred enough snakes over the years, various kinds. When I candled the eggs that looked viable, they also candled as healthy, live eggs...that's why I decided to incubate them "just for the heck of it" last summer. Despite all the signs of viability, I was amazed when I walked by the eggs last summer & the first tiny snake was in the process of hatching out, looking back at me.

But...this ^ ^ ^ is not typical. All I can say is sometimes it happens...no way to predict, much less prevent, other than buying only male pet snakes when you don't intend to breed snakes. And that usually makes breeders happy, as they'd rather keep extra females for breeding, or have less trouble selling females for those wanting to pair up the pets they already have. That's why some breeders will only sell snakes as pairs...so they don't get stuck with un-paired males. (females often sell out faster)

My Florida rat snakes just seem to think they're chickens...:D -they've been doing these eggs for years now, they're determined to cover the planet with their offspring even if it means being solo parents, lol.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Many years ago I "lost" (died prematurely) a young king snake (under 2 years old) to egg-binding. She had never mated, I got her as a hatchling, & the issue was not readily apparent either, until it was too late. Even surgery is risky, it's not something many vets do often, especially on such small snakes, so I understand your desire to avoid this.

As I explained about my large Florida rat snakes, they do "automatic shipments" :rolleyes: every year, late spring/early summer (each does a double clutch, the second one about 2 months after the first one); I always assumed the eggs were non-viable since I KNOW they haven't mated but every year, some eggs were obvious slugs (yellowish in color, often smaller or mis-shaped, sometimes moist/slimy/soft...) while quite a few eggs appeared* viable (white, full-size, firm & correctly shaped). *I know what good snake eggs look like, I've bred enough snakes over the years, various kinds. When I candled the eggs that looked viable, they also candled as healthy, live eggs...that's why I decided to incubate them "just for the heck of it" last summer. Despite all the signs of viability, I was amazed when I walked by the eggs last summer & the first tiny snake was in the process of hatching out, looking back at me.

But...this ^ ^ ^ is not typical. All I can say is sometimes it happens...no way to predict, much less prevent, other than buying only male pet snakes when you don't intend to breed snakes. And that usually makes breeders happy, as they'd rather keep extra females for breeding, or have less trouble selling females for those wanting to pair up the pets they already have. That's why some breeders will only sell snakes as pairs...so they don't get stuck with un-paired males. (females often sell out faster)

My Florida rat snakes just seem to think they're chickens...:D -they've been doing these eggs for years now, they're determined to cover the planet with their offspring even if it means being solo parents, lol.

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But, it isn’t common for them to lay eggs at all, viable or not if they haven’t been bred?

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Originally Posted by PaulBython

But, it isn’t common for them to lay eggs at all, viable or not if they haven’t been bred?

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That's correct...most snakes don't do this to us, lol. Mine just happened to figure out how to torture me...;)

Another related thing: after mating only ONCE, some snakes will go ahead & lay fertile eggs for another year or several* even with no further mating. So think twice before you get into breeding snakes "just once" because they may not follow the "rules". *I had a corn snake that had fertile clutches for FIVE years with one mating.

Isn't nature a hoot!? :snake:

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Originally Posted by MamaRhea

... Sad that it seems like most of the babies are born with issues that make it difficult of not impossible to survive. I also didn't know that double clutches were possible, so I am learning all kinds of fun facts today LOL. That has got to take up a TON of energy from them to produce that many eggs every year! May I see pictures of the babies? By spinal defects I assume you mean like a kink of some kind? Sorry for all the questions :rofl:

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When a solo female snake reproduces this way, the offspring have only one set of genes (from "mom") so there's a greater chance of defects. But if even a few survive, it can save the species when adults available for breeding become scarce.

Many snakes automatically do double clutches, IF they're in good health with plenty of food. But still, it takes a lot out of them: my female Florida rat snakes are much smaller than their male counterparts of the same age; the males are about 7' & hefty, while the females are about 5' & less heavy-bodied, despite crazy-voracious appetites year-round.

The one offspring with "spinal defects" has a mid-body kink, & some minor ones in her tail. So far, she's had no trouble eating & digesting food, & she's really sweet. (she'll take food calmly from my fingers while sitting in my hand sometimes, which is pretty endearing...) Sorry, I don't have pics (never take 'em, sorry).