New User Question - Ball as 1st Snake for Child

Hello everyone. A few weeks ago, I took my 7 year old son to Repticon and decided to let him get his first snake. We narrowed it down to a Ball or a Corn, but I've largely decided in favor of the Ball. My reasoning is that even though the husbandry seems easier and more forgiving for the Corn, the Ball seems more relaxed when handling. The Corn looks like it always has to be moving and that might be frustrating for a young kids first snake. Although all handling will be supervised by me, I'm a little worried a Corn may get away from him and the Ball just looks so calm. As for the husbandry, I will be heavily assisting and I have experience keeping a Dumerils Boa for nearly 10 years in the past. I'm curious if there's any reason to second guess the decision on the getting the Ball for a 7 year old?

I've read the Ball can be nippy, especially as a baby. Is this really individual snake dependent or are most of them this way at first? I'm totally fine working with a young snake to get it to be more docile, but it might not be a great experience if he gets intimidated by his 1st snake. Would I be better off with a less young one?

Besides the humidity, is there any huge difference b/t keeping a Boa and a Ball?

My intent is to start the Ball in a 20gal which I will get all dialed in ahead of time. Then, we'll upgrade to something nicer once it gets a little bigger. I used a Boaphiles in the past, but I'll probably go with an AP T8 this time around.


Thanks for reading!

My ball is my first snake and we are doing great. However, I'm nearly 30 lol. I think balls make great first snakes as long as you do your research and know what to expect. The only reason I can think of that they may not be good for a young'n is that they can be a bit .... well, boring for lack of a better word. They are very shy and you won't see much of them in their enclosure apart from feeding time. That, and they are nocturnal so they will be hidden during the daytime. Corns tend to be a bit more active and are diurnal so you get to see them moving around their enclosure a bit more. But overall I think both are great choices. Balls definitely help teach patience for sure lol.

I got my girl at about 2.5 months old and she has never been nippy with me, but that's just one individual.

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Personally, I'd get an adult/subadult corn. Much calmer, not flighty, and more interesting/active to a kid.

Just keep in mind that this will be your snake, not your kids'. Pick what you like. At 7 he may stay interested in snakes in general, and get attached to that one in particular and take it off to college.

But it is far more likely that it will simply be your snake within a year.

Both are great snakes, depending on what you're looking for, and neither is particularly difficult to care for as long as you do your research, ask questions, and prepare. None of my BPs have been nippy, even as young animals. Neither has my corn. The corn is generally much more active when out. Although most of my BP's don't do the stereotypical curling up when out either. They're plenty active too.

A happy BP is generally a hiding BP. Young ones might cruise their tanks, and they may do that when older if hungry. But generally they're kinda like pet rocks.

If you are able to get an animal from an expo or a good store, the benefit is that you can handle the snake prior to purchasing to get a general idea about temperament.

If you decide on a BP, make sure to ask about diet (ie, on live or F/T, mice or rats, if a baby has it had at least a few meals, etc.)

I have a Dumerils boa as well, corns and a ball python which is my first snake.

Husbandry is similar to Dumerils boa but higher temps (88-90) in the hot spot and 77-80 in cold side. Good hides are a must, something that hugs the top and sides of the snake because they are much more shy than a Dumerils. Feeding issues with BP can be more problematic than a Dumerils, with some who would only eat mice or rats, the color of the rodent, etc. While many bp eat well once they get going, you run the risk of dealing with one who might just eat when and what it wants, no matter how accurate your husbandry is, and that can be a headache if you plan to breed. Also, a hungry baby ball python cannot wait out a strike the same way a boa can. The body condition of a not-eating bp in 3 weeks appear visibly while the same boa going without food for 3 weeks don't seem to affect them much, so getting one to eat as soon as possible at a young age is a must. Whereas in Dumerils boa keeping, quail or chicks can be used to get them started then transition to rodents, it is not recommended for bp because of their stubborn way of wanting to eat the same thing over and over again, making transitions a challenge.

Long story short, if you want an easy overall snake for your son who may eventually take over keeping it when he is old enough, a corn would be best. By then, the corn would be grown, docile and sturdy enough for handling, feeding would be easy and mistakes are easily forgiven. They adjust being handled a lot more than a bp being handled too often causes stress and feeding strike. Corns are no lap snakes but not all wants to go anywhere either. A lot of it depends on personality and positive association with the keeper. I have 3 corns, all came to me about 2-3 months old. All started out skittish. Within a week's time, they all learned to look for food when I visit their cages. Two of them are easy to handle without trying to run away, the oldest being so calm that he just sits on my hand. The smallest of the 3 remained skittish when picked up, nips and musks. I usually pick them up prior to feeding. Then when I put them back down, I reward them their meal which they would eat on my hand if they could. With time, handling gets easier and easier, they learned that you won't hurt them and less likely they want to run away but more like trying to explore you when picked up.

Any snake you buy "for" a 7 year old is going to be YOUR snake first, or it won't survive. It will be years before your child is old enough to be responsible, much less able to understand the care requirements for a snake, but if you're totally involved, it will be a "win" for you both, as your son learns to respect, understand & care for whatever you decide to get.

Looks are deceiving, so it might be wiser to guide your son on this decision; he's not old enough to understand the difference, & if you make the choice, I suspect he'll be ecstatic no matter which kind or color comes home with you. ALL "baby" snakes are nippy...it varies more by the individual personality than by the species. You can find snappy ball pythons and snappy rat snakes. You can also find either one that just looks at you with curious googly-eyes without biting. Consider that BPs are less active, more likely to hide, & are more stressed by temperature fluctuations or other changes that may cause them to be problematic feeders. It's a LOT more fun, in my some-what prejudiced view ;) to share ownership of a snake with a child that is more outgoing, nosy, easy to feed and even likes to climb branches provided...therefore, I'd cast my vote for a corn or rat snake* (*some kinds are much mellower than others) rather than a more complex-to-keep BP. But it's your call, as it will BE YOUR SNAKE for a very long time. (Pssst! Glass tanks have more visibility & are also perfect for corn & rat snakes...not so much for BPs.) ;)

I would NOT recommend getting a hatchling corn snake, as it will be a LONG time before handling is a good idea, especially by a child (let's face it, kids can be clumsy & small snakes will be unable to defend themselves & can be easily injured...or LOST). Find at least a yearling corn or rat snake, or a healthy c/b one that's even a couple years old. That, IMO, would be the best way to start...corn snakes may move around more but tend to be very docile, unlikely to bite. There are exceptions, but they're obvious & easily avoided. Even the most curious child of 7 will be bored to death in no time if you follow the guidelines about no handling for the best survival of the snake while IT has a chance to grow up & learns to eat. I hope you reconsider getting a hatchling of ANY kind. All the best. :snake:

The biggest thing I would keep in mind is that this snake could very well be your snake. All the interest in the world at 7 years old could fade pretty quickly. You're looking at 20+ years with the snake.
So maybe your kid loses interest, maybe goes off to college and can't bring the snake, etc...

Just be prepared for it to be your snake. Hopefully your boys passion continues to grow, but don't bank on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

Both are great snakes, depending on what you're looking for, and neither is particularly difficult to care for as long as you do your research, ask questions, and prepare. None of my BPs have been nippy, even as young animals. Neither has my corn. The corn is generally much more active when out. Although most of my BP's don't do the stereotypical curling up when out either. They're plenty active too.

A happy BP is generally a hiding BP. Young ones might cruise their tanks, and they may do that when older if hungry. But generally they're kinda like pet rocks.

If you are able to get an animal from an expo or a good store, the benefit is that you can handle the snake prior to purchasing to get a general idea about temperament.

If you decide on a BP, make sure to ask about diet (ie, on live or F/T, mice or rats, if a baby has it had at least a few meals, etc.)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Any snake you buy "for" a 7 year old is going to be YOUR snake first, or it won't survive. It will be years before your child is old enough to be responsible, much less able to understand the care requirements for a snake, but if you're totally involved, it will be a "win" for you both, as your son learns to respect, understand & care for whatever you decide to get.

Looks are deceiving, so it might be wiser to guide your son on this decision; he's not old enough to understand the difference, & if you make the choice, I suspect he'll be ecstatic no matter which kind or color comes home with you. ALL "baby" snakes are nippy...it varies more by the individual personality than by the species. You can find snappy ball pythons and snappy rat snakes. You can also find either one that just looks at you with curious googly-eyes without biting. Consider that BPs are less active, more likely to hide, & are more stressed by temperature fluctuations or other changes that may cause them to be problematic feeders. It's a LOT more fun, in my some-what prejudiced view ;) to share ownership of a snake with a child that is more outgoing, nosy, easy to feed and even likes to climb branches provided...therefore, I'd cast my vote for a corn or rat snake* (*some kinds are much mellower than others) rather than a more complex-to-keep BP. But it's your call, as it will BE YOUR SNAKE for a very long time. (Pssst! Glass tanks have more visibility & are also perfect for corn & rat snakes...not so much for BPs.) ;)

I would NOT recommend getting a hatchling corn snake, as it will be a LONG time before handling is a good idea, especially by a child (let's face it, kids can be clumsy & small snakes will be unable to defend themselves & can be easily injured...or LOST). Find at least a yearling corn or rat snake, or a healthy c/b one that's even a couple years old. That, IMO, would be the best way to start...corn snakes may move around more but tend to be very docile, unlikely to bite. There are exceptions, but they're obvious & easily avoided. Even the most curious child of 7 will be bored to death in no time if you follow the guidelines about no handling for the best survival of the snake while IT has a chance to grow up & learns to eat. I hope you reconsider getting a hatchling of ANY kind. All the best. :snake:

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If your child is gonna be handling the snake then it HAS to be a Royal / Ball Python .. they’re slow moving , calm and rarely snappy .. ( I’ve never ever come across one that’s been snappy )

They’re big enough to handle plus they’re very slow moving and predictable - hatchling Corn snakes are tiny and are as fast as hell when they’re young .. maybe ok when they’re 18 months to two year old .


The MAIN thing when buying a Royal / Ball Python is to buy off a trustworthy source/breeder and ensure that it is a GOOD feeder !!


Here’s one of my babies ( just out of the egg) and a Corn baby for comparison

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Thanks for the replies everyone! They have given me a lot to think about. The short answer sounds like get both a Corn and a BP eventually, but it brings me full circle as to which to get first...

My new approach is going to be to say we're going to go get a BP "together" which basically means that it's going to be my snake first with some assistance from my son. If he really takes to it, then in 6-12 months we can go back to Repticon and get him "his own" Corn which may not be a hatchling. Best case scenario, he likes both of them and takes over most of the upkeep as his gets older. Most likely scenario, I end up with a BP of my own (or he loves the BP and I end up with a Corn for myself). Worst case scenario, I end up owning both a BP and a Corn which really doesn't sound too terrible.

Set up and calibrate temps in your enclosure before you get your snake(s).

Get female snakes. In case it doesn't work out for you-adult female snakes are easier to re-home...and if you decide to breed them someday the older females will come in handy...

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Originally Posted by Nick_MD

Thanks for the replies everyone! They have given me a lot to think about. The short answer sounds like get both a Corn and a BP eventually, but it brings me full circle as to which to get first...

My new approach is going to be to say we're going to go get a BP "together" which basically means that it's going to be my snake first with some assistance from my son. If he really takes to it, then in 6-12 months we can go back to Repticon and get him "his own" Corn which may not be a hatchling. Best case scenario, he likes both of them and takes over most of the upkeep as his gets older. Most likely scenario, I end up with a BP of my own (or he loves the BP and I end up with a Corn for myself). Worst case scenario, I end up owning both a BP and a Corn which really doesn't sound too terrible.

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For what it’s worth I have two beaut adult Corn snakes just to add weight to my last post and show that I’m not just some crazy Royal lover :)


Remember if you’re going with a Royal : Ball Python ensure it is a good feeder / eater by buying off a trustworthy seller

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And "full disclosure", I've had BPs many years ago, but none currently. Way more into rat snakes & others...currently have 5 adult corn snakes & 11 rat snakes
of various kinds & ages. 19 snakes in all currently, including a spotted python, rosy boa & Texas longnose. Your plan sounds pretty good. ;) Have fun! :snake:

BTW, Australian spotted pythons also make great pets...WAY easier to feed than BPs, stay about the size of a corn snake. I've only had this one, & in the 11 years
I've had her, she has only nipped me by mistake ONCE. She handles great, even with strangers, & she eats unheated f/t small mice happily. Just a thought- not
as colorful as corn snakes are though, but she likes to bask on branches...way less of a "hider" than BPs are. She's always watching me ("food?"). BTW, she does
great in a glass tank also, with more warmth than a corn, & only needs a humid hide (not a whole humid enclosure).

I will go with many on this one. My son is 6 and I am teaching him the husbandry of all my animals because he takes an interest in them. But just because they want one, is not good enough. I can't see him fully taking care of any animal for a few years, even though he is much more knowledgeable then his peers at his age. My focus is to create a desire for him to know and love these animals.

They will handle my bp, my beardy, but they are mine. They have hamsters i. Their room, they feed them but I have to remind them, I am their true keepers.

He can have one, but make sure you understand you will be taking care of it.

That is my personal experience with my son.

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Thanks again for the replies. My son sounds similar. I would have never agreed to let him get a snake if I didn't already have some experience taking care of them (Dumerils Boa as adult and Rat Snake as kid). I'm just really glad my wife talked him out of a Hermit Crab. She said, "I would rather you get a snake" and well, we jumped all over that and here we are. I fully anticipate being responsible for the upkeep - just maybe with a 7 year old assistant. It's part of the reason I'm taking the time to research what I want really first, but what also works as a reasonable starter for a kid.

I'm working on getting the cage dialed in currently. Aiming for an optimal BP setup, but if I come home with a corn snake, then I can always adjust the setup.

I very much like the look of the Okeetee Corns, but will not get a baby which is all I saw for those at the past Repticon. I'm also liking the BPs that have a high yellow/black contrast - maybe a Pastel or a Mojave, but need to research any genetic issues on those. I actually like the Normal BPs too so getting a healthy normal could be the best route...

You might ask some breeders about older hold-backs they may want to sell...they might have them but not drag them to all the shows as they take more room &
most buyers want hatchlings. I like Okeetee Corns too & used to breed them. I still have one but he's 20 years old, a little old to call a "hold-back". :rofl:And if you
like the look of Okeetee, you might also look for Abbotts corn snakes. (they tend to have heavier black borders between the reds & oranges, really pretty IMO)

Be careful! I started with a corn. And then a BP. And, over a few years, a king, a rosy boa, a western hognose, and now a boa constrictor! Definitely can't stop at one.

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Originally Posted by Meghenebk

Be careful! I started with a corn. And then a BP. And, over a few years, a king, a rosy boa, a western hognose, and now a boa constrictor! Definitely can't stop at one.

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Who wants to "stop"? :P You're no fun...

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Originally Posted by Nick_MD

I very much like the look of the Okeetee Corns, but will not get a baby which is all I saw for those at the past Repticon. I'm also liking the BPs that have a high yellow/black contrast - maybe a Pastel or a Mojave, but need to research any genetic issues on those. I actually like the Normal BPs too so getting a healthy normal could be the best route...

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One thing to possibly consider is that a lot of BPs brown out as they age, whereas a lot of corns look the same as adults if not better. I know some BP morphs hold their color better, but I'm no expert on that. As an example, my Pastel Vanilla Yellowbelly is still pretty yellow and black at about 2 years of age. My Dragonfly is also still pretty bright but has browned out some.

Cher and Buffyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...781ac0701f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1ab0ca69a1.jpg

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Took "most" of the advice, but did end up with a younger snake than might have been optimal. Got a caramel corn who is now named Sheila. Going well after a couple weeks. Here she is eating for her second time (testing pic posting). I'll start a progression thread once we're handling her more frequently.

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Very good choice IMO, a corn is much less 'fussy' than a ball python, even though much smaller (more fragile!) & more active (which they improve upon as they grow).
I have 3 caramel corns myself, & 2 Okeetees (currently). Corns make excellent pets- most have docile personalities, require far less heat in cage (I recommend good
air-flow as well), & if treated gently, are not biters at all, even when hungry. I like their adult size as well...welcome to "rat snakes". :gj:

Looks gorgeous..


They not very relaxing to hold when they’re young and small as they never stop wriggling around .. like a hamster ..

I’d switch to a dark coloured substrate like or orchid or reptile bark to show off his colours !!
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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

One thing to possibly consider is that a lot of BPs brown out as they age, whereas a lot of corns look the same as adults if not better. I know some BP morphs hold their color better, but I'm no expert on that. As an example, my Pastel Vanilla Yellowbelly is still pretty yellow and black at about 2 years of age. My Dragonfly is also still pretty bright but has browned out some.

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The tricky thing with hatchling corns though is that they hatch out very drab, compared to how their colors actually come in gradually. But you're right, once they get their
true colors, they stay that way for life. BTW, yellow is the slowest color to come in, so be patient with caramel corns (<to OP).

@ Boogertophis - Can you link me to some pics of your 3 caramels? I'm curious what to expect in a few years. Does it take roughly that long?

@ Zincubus - I'm planning on switching out substrate once it starts to warm up and the natural humidity climbs. I bought this to hold humidity when I was still setting up for a Ball.


I also need to get her something to climb on. Currently the only vertical surface is a temp/humidity gauge and she seems to hang out on top of it when she's out cruising. Anything you all recommend?

As expected, she can really move quickly when she wants to. Although handling has been kept to a minimum, she does mellow out after a couple minutes already. She still wants to move, but slows down and takes kindly to being redirected. So far my son has been very patient with wanting to handle her. He's content to let her slither over his hand for a minute and just watch her cruise the cage around dusk each day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nick_MD

@ Boogertophis - Can you link me to some pics of your 3 caramels? I'm curious what to expect in a few years. Does it take roughly that long?...
I also need to get her something to climb on. Currently the only vertical surface is a temp/humidity gauge and she seems to hang out on top of it when she's out cruising. Anything you all recommend?

As expected, she can really move quickly when she wants to. Although handling has been kept to a minimum, she does mellow out after a couple minutes already. She still wants to move, but slows down and takes kindly to being redirected. So far my son has been very patient with wanting to handle her. He's content to let her slither over his hand for a minute and just watch her cruise the cage around dusk each day.

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Sorry, but no I can't, mainly because I never take photos, lol....(I promise I'm NOT from another planet). Anyway, yellow usually comes in around a year old, hang in there.
When (in the past) I've bred or bought hatchling corns, it was usually the drabbest ones that ended up looking the best. :rolleye2: All you can do is go by the "parents" & wait...

A few more suggestions: a hatchling corn may be too shy for a while to climb on ('clean') branches, but you can include them so she'll get used to them being there. If you use driftwood, make sure there are no holes your snake can get stuck in (when she grows & you've forgotten they're there) or just plug them now. Snakes will use man-made things to climb on too, like the ladders they sell for birds. You can also make your own-it's a good idea to coat wood with non-toxic no-VOC waterproofing so the wood doesn't absorb feces & germs, & are easier to clean off.

As far as handling: hatchling rat-or-corn snakes are afraid of us & the world...they're tiny & preyed upon in nature. One thing I like to do is gently cup them in my closed hands-they learn to calm down, feeling "safe" in a "cave"...then let them look out*. Always handle them over a safe surface should they fall, so they aren't hurt. I prefer my bed, since most chairs & couches may have tiny holes between the cushions. I've never had to tear apart any upholstered furniture to retrieve a snake, but many others have...;)

*I've actually had corn snakes that learned to feel so safe in my cupped hands that they happily ate f/t pinkies from my fingers while there. I got away from that as they grew bigger, but you really can see & help their personality if you're patient.

Congrats on the new acquisition! Corns really are a great beginner snake.

Funny just last week I shared the progression pics of one of my caramels (with Miami) with a customer so they could see how they change. These pics are hatchling, several months, a year, and 3 years with varies lighting quality in the photos.

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