Leo Morphs

I was at the pet shop today, and noticed some of their Leo's. There were a couple advertised as Albino (babies for $40), and 1 as a Blizzard (juvenile for $60). I was wondering if there's a way to find out whether or not the Leos' genetics are likely to be passed on to their offspring (boy, I'm really bad at this genetics stuff, even after reading 3 pages of it the other day!). For instance, without being able to talk to the breeder, how would I know if the genes for the albino were dominant, and thus pass on to its offspring? Would I just be taking a shot in the dark?

I'm thinking het means dominant, and homozygous means recessive, but I'm not sure... I guess I'll have to read that article again and hope it sinks in this time *sigh*

take a look at this: http://www.gekkonida.com/genetics-guide.htm. that should help you out a bit. :)

Het= Heterozygous, one dominant allele and one recessive allele. The dominant masks the recessive.

If you can visibly see the albino or blizzard trait, that means that they are Homozygous. (either two dominant alleles or two recessive alleles)

If you want to breed albino leo geckos or blizzard leopard geckos, then your best chances would be breeding the leo to another leo with the same morph.

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Originally Posted by mlededee

take a look at this: http://www.gekkonida.com/genetics-guide.htm. that should help you out a bit. :)

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Ah, groovy. Thanks for the link!

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

Het= Heterozygous, one dominant allele and one recessive allele. The dominant masks the recessive.

If you can visibly see the albino or blizzard trait, that means that they are Homozygous. (either two dominant alleles or two recessive alleles)

If you want to breed albino leo geckos or blizzard leopard geckos, then your best chances would be breeding the leo to another leo with the same morph.

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Alright. Believe it or not, you've just cleared up what 3 pages of geneology discussion couldn't :) I appreciate you taking the time to sum it up for me.

Do albino and blizzard Leo's tend to be highly sought-after, or are they quite common? $40 and $60 for the albinos and blizzard (respectively) seemed a little low in contrast to the normals.

And by the way, the albinos and the blizzard I saw at the store, based upon my extremely limited knowledge of genotypes/phenotypes, were Homozygous. I'm looking forward to picking them up in a couple weeks, and hopefully I'll have myself a male/female pair :)

After looking at this page ( http://www.gekkonida.com/morphs.htm ), it would seem that the albinos I saw at the pet store may have been blizzards instead. The albino-types listed on that page all have noticeable shading/color patterns, whereas the advertised albinos were patternless and a more light-grey / pinkish color. Of course, I suppose the color-patterns might come in with age?

Thoughts?

they are pretty popular in the world of leos. there are however, different kinds of albinos--trempers, bells, rainwaters/las vegas albinos... i'm guessing at the pet store there was no label as to which type of albino these geckos were? those prices are typical pet store prices for those gecko morphs. i am not a fan of pet store (especially chain store) geckos, especially leopard geckos. too many times they are full of worms and other parasites, malnurished, dehydrated and who knows what else. if you decide to purchase these leos be sure to check them over carefully. make sure they have nice fat tails, bright eyes, clean vent areas and are active and alert. consider taking them to a vet to have fecals done and to be treated for parasites as well. too many times i have gone into a pet store and the leos looked like they were about on the verge of death. to an untrained eye they might not look so bad, but you don't want to deal with the heartache of losing a gecko you haven't had for very long so please be careful.

all albino or blizzard leos are homozygous. if it wasn't homozygous then it could be heterozygous for albino, which means it would be carrying the gene but it would not be visibly different from a normal. not het or homo albino or blizzard and it's a normal.

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Originally Posted by mlededee

i am not a fan of pet store (especially chain store) geckos, especially leopard geckos. too many times they are full of worms and other parasites, malnurished, dehydrated and who knows what else. if you decide to purchase these leos be sure to check them over carefully. make sure they have nice fat tails, bright eyes, clean vent areas and are active and alert.

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This is a small mom-and-pop store, which is a little reassuring. I didn't pay much attention to the tails or the eyes, and all but a couple (they actually had about 6 or 7 in one 10gal.-long tank (is this a bad sign in itself?) were under the hide, while a couple were in the foliage/at the water dish.

I will definitely spend some time looking them over more thoroughly next time I go in!

And a little off-topic, but since we're here: is there a database online that's used to track regional reptile shows that you would recommend checking out?

if they are still small a 10 gallon may not be too bad, just depends on how big/old the geckos are.

you can find a list of shows here: http://www.kingsnake.com/events.html

Just for example:

I have a 1.2 group of leos. The male is a banana blizzard, one female is a banana blizzard, and the other female is normale.

The babies from banana blizzard x banana blizzard will all be banana blizzards. The offspring from the banana blizzard x normal will all be 100% hets for banana blizzard.

What I'm really interested in though is since banana blizzards are a cross between a blizzard and a patternless, meaning they are homozygous for both blizzard and patternless, what would happen if they were cross to a pure blizzard or a pure patternless?

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Just for example:

I have a 1.2 group of leos. The male is a banana blizzard, one female is a banana blizzard, and the other female is normale.

The babies from banana blizzard x banana blizzard will all be banana blizzards. The offspring from the banana blizzard x normal will all be 100% hets for banana blizzard.

What I'm really interested in though is since banana blizzards are a cross between a blizzard and a patternless, meaning they are homozygous for both blizzard and patternless, what would happen if they were cross to a pure blizzard or a pure patternless?

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Cross the double Homo to a single Homo and you will get 100% of the common Homo that are 100% Het for the other.

Using your example, breed the double Homo to blizzard and you get all blizzard babies that are Het for Patternless.

Breed the double homo to a patternless and you will get all patternless het for blizzard.

Wouldn't Banana Blizzards be incomplete dominant genes? I think. ?:) I'm pretty sure incomplete dominance is when two traits of a gene both try to be dominant, and in the end they just sort of mix together. Like if someone had yellow hair, and someone had blue hair. Their kid, if it had incomplete dominance, would have green hair. I'm probably way off, but oh well. :P

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

Wouldn't Banana Blizzards be incomplete dominant genes? I think. ?:) I'm pretty sure incomplete dominance is when two traits of a gene both try to be dominant, and in the end they just sort of mix together. Like if someone had yellow hair, and someone had blue hair. Their kid, if it had incomplete dominance, would have green hair. I'm probably way off, but oh well. :P

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I don't know, I never worked with the Patternless or the Blizzards, I'm more into the line-bred traits when it comes to Leopard Geckos. I was going on the info that he stated the Banana Blizzards were Homo for both Blizz and Patternless... :)

Here are some photos of the advertised albinos, though I couldn't manage to snag a pic of the blizzard (if they even still have it):

(2x) Babies @ $40 ea.:
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...Albino-002.jpg

(1x) Juvenile @ $60:
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...Albino-001.jpg

The Juvie certainly looks like an authentic albino to me. I saw his whole body the other day, and it's similar markings to his head, which is all I could manage to snap today. The babies also look albinistic to me, but with my little experience, I was hoping that a breeder here could confirm this. I know babies' colors and patterns change with age, so I would like to make sure that these look authentic.

Also, the other Leo right next to the two albino babies - does that look like a particular morph? Hypomelanistic, perhaps? And note the size of their tails. Do these look unhealthy?

Thank you!

the tails of the two larger geckos that i can see are definitely too thin but the albino is WAY too thin all over. you can see its little hip bones protruding and its tail doesn't have any fat reserves at all. :( i'm gonna give you my honest opinion here, and that is to pass these guys up. :hmm:

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Originally Posted by mlededee

i'm gonna give you my honest opinion here, and that is to pass these guys up. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...d/icon_hmm.gif

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Alright. That's kind of disappointing, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay for these little critters if they're just going to cause me problems. Of course, I hate to see them in their conditions at the store, too. I was a little hesitant, a.) because of the amount of geckos in each tank, b.) because of how the tanks seemed neglected (feces gathered in corners), and c.) because of their weight. Thanks for the feedback Emily, it's greatly appreciated.

I'm still going to get a tank set up, and keep my eye open for some to purchase of the Web...

yeah, since you know you want to get some leos, go ahead and get an enclosure set up and ready to go. then when you do find some you like you will have everything ready to go. :)

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

I don't know, I never worked with the Patternless or the Blizzards, I'm more into the line-bred traits when it comes to Leopard Geckos. I was going on the info that he stated the Banana Blizzards were Homo for both Blizz and Patternless... :)

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patternless and blizzard are recessive traits. the banana blizzard morph is a result of an animal carrying a pair of recessive genes for patternless and for blizzard. They don't interact on the same genetic level, rather, they both manifest themselves at the same time.

I THINK. I actually caught my male banana blizzard latched on to the female's neck today, trying to mate with her. It looked kinda brutal actually! But didn't seem to bother the female too much.

I guess we'll see what pops out this spring!

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

patternless and blizzard are recessive traits. the banana blizzard morph is a result of an animal carrying a pair of recessive genes for patternless and for blizzard. They don't interact on the same genetic level, rather, they both manifest themselves at the same time.

I THINK. I actually caught my male banana blizzard latched on to the female's neck today, trying to mate with her. It looked kinda brutal actually! But didn't seem to bother the female too much.

I guess we'll see what pops out this spring!

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Spring? If they hooked up now, she could start laying eggs by late Dec. , with eggs hatching in Feb. ;)

Any idea of what type of Leo that darker one may be (first picture, post #13)? It didn't have any bright colors at all, unless you consider light-gray bright. I don't plan on getting it, due to the malnourishment, but was curious as to what morph he might be.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by IamKaervek

Any idea of what type of Leo that darker one may be (first picture, post #13)? It didn't have any bright colors at all, unless you consider light-gray bright. I don't plan on getting it, due to the malnourishment, but was curious as to what morph he might be.

Thanks!

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First Picture, I see the 2 Albinos, 2 babies, probably turn out as Hypo High Yellows, and the one you are referring to which appears to be pretty much a normal.;)

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

First Picture, I see the 2 Albinos, 2 babies, probably turn out as Hypo High Yellows, and the one you are referring to which appears to be pretty much a normal.;)

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Oh, OK :P I thought "normals" were yellow with black spots. Shows how much I know, lol!

man! i fell soo sorry for those Leo's theyre probably gonna die. poor leos!

-Courtney

yeeeah, courtney--let's not talk like that, ok? :(

I'll have to post a picture of the Leo I plan on picking up tomorrow; she's absolutely beautiful! I had no idea Leo's could get this big, which is quite exciting I must say. Her tail must be larger than the circumference of a quarter at it's thickest portion, and her body is no different. She's about 1 and 1/2 years old, the lady tells me. In fact, I'm told that the Leo is on a diet! LOL! I think she's going to be quite happy with a male of her own age!

is she normal or albino or something else? i can't wait to see some pics. :)

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Originally Posted by mlededee

is she normal or albino or something else? i can't wait to see some pics. :)

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Well, considering the dark-colored Leo in the pictures I posted before was said to be a normal by Gecko Den, then so is the lady I'm picking up tomorrow. She has similar dark spots on top of a light-gray base color.