How long with no food?

So im in the process of switching my roughly 6mo old Ball Python from mice to rats.. with mice he never missed a meal he ate every week as long as ive had him.. now that ive been offering rats he wants nothing to do with it, its been a little over two weeks since hes eaten.. if he continues to do so, how long before I should consider giving him a mouse again.. ive read a lot of the tricks about making them smell like mice etc.. but ive chosen to go the route of eventually he will be hungry enough to take it... but how long is too long?

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Also he is still very healthy looking and acting.. I know they can go quite some time without food, but would like to hear advise

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Really depends on the health (& body weight) of each individual snake. One thing to keep in mind: you didn't mention how often you're trying to get him to eat a rat, but offering more than once every 5-7 days
tends to work against you, as it stresses the snake. Personally, I'd get some "used" mouse shavings from a local pet store & use it to scent the rats so they smell more like mice.

I'd keep offering food every 2-3 weeks until he eats. If he insists on being stubborn I'd give it a good 3-4 months before I offered another small mouse. Then start the process over again.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Really depends on the health (& body weight) of each individual snake. One thing to keep in mind: you didn't mention how often you're trying to get him to eat a rat, but offering more than once every 5-7 days
tends to work against you, as it stresses the snake. Personally, I'd get some "used" mouse shavings from a local pet store & use it to scent the rats so they smell more like mice.

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Offered the 20th, offered again the 25th, and now havent yet offered the 3rd time.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I'd keep offering food every 2-3 weeks until he eats. If he insists on being stubborn I'd give it a good 3-4 months before I offered another small mouse. Then start the process over again.

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Sounds good, thank you!

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Really depends on the health (& body weight) of each individual snake. One thing to keep in mind: you didn't mention how often you're trying to get him to eat a rat, but offering more than once every 5-7 days
tends to work against you, as it stresses the snake. Personally, I'd get some "used" mouse shavings from a local pet store & use it to scent the rats so they smell more like mice.

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Also I do frozen thawed, so im not sure the shavings trick would do much

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Since the animal is still so young I would focus on keeping it eating for now. I tend to use the "tough love" approach and wait them out as well, but not when they're only 6 months old.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Since the animal is still so young I would focus on keeping it eating for now. I tend to use the "tough love" approach and wait them out as well, but not when they're only 6 months old.

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Ive always heard the sooner the better, becauae the longer you wait the more they wont want to switch..

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Since the animal is still so young I would focus on keeping it eating for now. I tend to use the "tough love" approach and wait them out as well, but not when they're only 6 months old.

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Also 6mo is just my best educated guess.. hes about 260grams and 5-8 months is what id guess from the info I have

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Originally Posted by Mppeasle

Ive always heard the sooner the better, becauae the longer you wait the more they wont want to switch..

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Some switch easier than others, but at only 6 months you've got plenty of time. If you're insistent on switching now, you can't be so quick to write off things like scenting. Waiting the animal out is something I don't suggest newer keepers rely on.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Some switch easier than others, but at only 6 months you've got plenty of time. If you're insistent on switching now, you can't be so quick to write off things like scenting. Waiting the animal out is something I don't suggest newer keepers rely on.

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Okay! Thank you for your advise!

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Originally Posted by Mppeasle

Okay! Thank you for your advise!

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Also, how often are you offering?

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Also, how often are you offering?

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I offered the 20th, the 25th (he looked like he was hunting around his enclosure thought id try) and I havent offered again yet. So im not overly concern yet as its only been 2 attempts..

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I just switched my BP from F/T mice to rats. The first time I offered a rat I thawed it with a mouse beside it to transfer scent. She took that rat that was scented perfectly. The next week I tried a rat with no mouse scent added, and she struck instantly again. I would definitely try scenting if you haven't yet- it seems weird (I honestly didn't want to do it myself) but I think that made the process much easier personally!

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Originally Posted by OkamiFlautist

I just switched my BP from F/T mice to rats. The first time I offered a rat I thawed it with a mouse beside it to transfer scent. She took that rat that was scented perfectly. The next week I tried a rat with no mouse scent added, and she struck instantly again. I would definitely try scenting if you haven't yet- it seems weird (I honestly didn't want to do it myself) but I think that made the process much easier personally!

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I'll give it a shot! I guess I just never understood how it worked.. thought id have to scent the rats forever [emoji23]

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Originally Posted by Mppeasle

Also I do frozen thawed, so im not sure the shavings trick would do much

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Helps more than you might think. Thaw the rat in cool water...it washes off more of the rat scent. Then add scent of mice & warm to "lifelike" warmth* (which I assume you've been doing?) & use tongs to slightly
wiggle rodent AWAY from the snake, never towards the snake. (rodent in the real world don't volunteer to get eaten, & if they appear to do that it may scare your snake into not eating)

Timing & "atmosphere" can also help get a snake to eat: BPs are ambush predators, & usually like to strike from their hiding place at rodents that appear to be cluelessly passing by, in the evening, dim lighting.
You don't want to offer food to a BP that is out cruising his cage...they're too cautious to eat in the open like that, usually.

All of these seemingly tiny details can seriously make a difference...especially offering the prey WARM -about 100*- just not cooked though. ;) And I agree w/ Craig...keep a young snake eating, work out the details
when they're older & have more body size. Don't go too long before you just offer what HE wants.

Another way to help a snake switch to rats is when they have enough body size to accept 2 smaller prey items instead one larger one, feed ONE of what they want first (mouse, in this case), then while they are still
pumped up ("in feed mode") offer (or "chain-feed") the second item (rat). In this way they may learn to accept either one. This works for SOME snakes, not all...it's just another method to keep in mind. Some snakes
are harder than others to switch...patience. ;)

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Originally Posted by Mppeasle

I offered the 20th, the 25th (he looked like he was hunting around his enclosure thought id try) and I havent offered again yet. So im not overly concern yet as its only been 2 attempts..

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Ok. I'd wait at least 7 days between offerings as well. You're certainly not overdoing it, so I'm just sharing this for general knowledge, but offering too often can actually stress the animal and lead to further refusals. 5 days isn't too bad, but I definitely wouldn't offer any more frequently than that.

It sounds like you're open to suggestions and you obviously have the snakes best interest at heart. Try not to stress, you're on the right track :gj:

I agree that scenting and braining are definitely worth trying even though I've never done the braining thing. I also don't think there's any rush, or need, to transition your BP to rats. They're not very large snakes and they could thrive on a varied diet of jumbo mice, ASFs, chicks and quail. On the flip side, if you really want the snake to eat rats then stay the course. Even young snakes can go months without food. If it's a well established animal that was eating consistently before it will eat again. Survival always trumps preference. I may prefer steak but if there's only chicken available then chicken it is. I had a 6 m/o carpet python that took 3-4 months before she got on track. She ate once and then refused for the next few months. I was offering food every week, then biweekly, and then every 3 weeks. Once she started eating she hasn't skipped a meal since. The bottom line for me is try not to stress yourself, or the snake, too much if it doesn't eat for a while. I used to do it too but I've learned that it's just wasted energy. If the husbandry is on point, and the animal is healthy, it'll eat when it's ready. BPs are some of the most stubborn snakes when it comes to food breaks but they all eat eventually. Self preservation is the first law of nature.

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Originally Posted by Mppeasle

Ive always heard the sooner the better, becauae the longer you wait the more they wont want to switch..

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At this age I don't think you have to worry yet about that. I mixed my feeders in the same bag (frozen skin to skin or fur to fur) and fed both mice and rat. I didn't fully switch mine to rat till it was over 500 grams. Since BP's don't have great vision they go by smell and air/tongue tasting and use heat sensing. If you mix the two feeders rat/mice together in the same bag in the freezer for a bit they won't hardly know which is which. It worked for me.

PS warm the fully thawed feeders up to 100 F (they cool fast) and offer in the dark.

Well heres an update, bought the mice that he loves.. thawed it in the same bag as one of the rats, took the rat and mouse out of the plastic bag and set in front of the heater.. put the plastic bag on top of his enclosure so he could smell it, walked away for a minute and came back to him stretched out towards the empty bag tongue flicking. Grabbed the rat with tongs and lifted his enclosure lid, I barely got the rat in the enclosure and he nailed it! Thanks everyone! Sucks I have to waste this mouse now.. only have 1 snake, but a success nonetheless. Now hopefully in a week or so he will take the rat without scenting, we will see how that goes.

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Awesome!!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Mppeasle

Well heres an update, bought the mice that he loves.. thawed it in the same bag as one of the rats, took the rat and mouse out of the plastic bag and set in front of the heater.. put the plastic bag on top of his enclosure so he could smell it, walked away for a minute and came back to him stretched out towards the empty bag tongue flicking. Grabbed the rat with tongs and lifted his enclosure lid, I barely got the rat in the enclosure and he nailed it! Thanks everyone! Sucks I have to waste this mouse now.. only have 1 snake, but a success nonetheless. Now hopefully in a week or so he will take the rat without scenting, we will see how that goes.

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Good excuse to get another snake.... lol


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Originally Posted by MarkL1561

Good excuse to get another snake.... lol


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Would it be safe to offer the other one to the snake.. the snake is about 260 grams, the rat was 25, the mouse is about 19..

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I wouldn't plan on forcing it or make it a habbit, just curious as to if he wanted it.. would it be dangerous to the snake?

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That's a tough choice. I hate wasting feeders, and it wouldn't be too big of a meal, but you'll also be reinforcing a behavior you're trying to change. Either way I'm glad he took the rat. That was easier than you thought it would be.🙂

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

That's a tough choice. I hate wasting feeders, and it wouldn't be too big of a meal, but you'll also be reinforcing a behavior you're trying to change. Either way I'm glad he took the rat. That was easier than you thought it would be.[emoji846]

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Maybe its like saying.. if you eat what I want you to eat, then you can have what you want... haha only kidding! Thanks! It was way easier than I thought, the real test will be in a week or so if he will take the rat without the mouse.

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So glad to hear it worked! [emoji846]

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