2019 failures turned into 2020s successes

Hello everyone. After an extensive amount of time spend learning everything there is to learn about breeding BP, I hatched my first clutch on Sept 6th 2019. I wanted to thank everyone on this forum for helping me along this journey, I couldnt have done it without the expertise of the awesome people on here. The mom turned out 6 good eggs in which 3 hatched and survived. All three have been sexed/eating well and I am now moving onto my second season breeding, I couldnt be more excited.

Now, I prided myself before starting this endeavour to know everything I could before starting it as I thought it to be irresponsible and cruel to "figure it out as I go". I hate that mentality, especially when dealing with a living creature. I see it far to often on the internet. At no point during this did I feel I was in over my head or didnt know the answer to the next step in the process.

I've waiting a few months to ask this mostly because of how bad I feel about it (even though I know its nature) but I lost 3 of those eggs. After pulling them out they look to have gone full term, no birth defects and nothing I could tell went wrong in the incubation process. Temps were stable, no mold, condensation or accidents. Here's were I think I may have failed. I had two of the eggs pip overnight on me (Sun). I was leaving Monday to go camping and wouldnt return until the Wednesday. When I had returned home one more baby pipped and one had fully crawled out of her egg. The three eggs that didnt pip were all died. If I had cut all the eggs after the first had pipped (which my instincts were telling me to do) would they have survived? The only thing I can think of is they drowned in the eggs. That felt bad to say. I have also seen videos online of people cutting eggs before one even pips (very reputable breeders might I add). How do they know? How can you be so sure that the eggs dont need another few days to develop? This year I will be cutting the entire clutch when the first one pips but what do you guys thing?

Thanks in advance

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Originally Posted by Weremey59

The three eggs that didnt pip were all died. If I had cut all the eggs after the first had pipped (which my instincts were telling me to do) would they have survived?

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Half the clutch didn't make it. That is not a pipping issue. 50% egg failure in my experience is usually due to a temp. spike/drop, an egg positioning/manipulation issue resulting in late-term death, or a lethal genetic combination. If you cut those three eggs that died you would not have changed the outcome--if they did need more time to develop you would have reduced their odds of survival.

As for breeders: Reputable and Patient are two separate things.

So many things could have gone wrong with those eggs so I can't give you an answer. Only thing I can say is make sure your incubator doesn't have temp spikes and no stale air hot spots.Also helps to have two thermostats in case one fails. Find what egg tub setup works best for you, I use the egg crate/light diffuser method with perilite, and cling wrap for the set it and forget it "substrate less incubation" and have not lose a single fertile egg since I started. I check on my thermostats daily and look at the eggs from time to time through incubator window. I don't really start the egg watch until day 50 or so when I notice a lot of deflation/dimples. I start checking daily at day 59 for pips, when the first pips I cut the rest (more out of curiosity than anything). Find what works for you, if you cut after first one pips you should not have any issues unless you cut the snake or spill the fluid in the egg (you can refill it).

Ok in that case here is my incubator. I my temps did fluctuate however it never once left the 87-89 degree guideline. Moisture got on an egg a few weeks in however I got it off with a qui-tip. I didnt open the incubator often (maybe every 3-4 days) only to check humidity and make sure nothing was molding, rotting, etc.

https://i1383.photobucket.com/albums...psuq8xinwa.jpg

This was one of the eggs that didnt survive and one that did. That moisture is on the outside of the tub.

https://i1383.photobucket.com/albums...ps1aqywxef.jpg

Is the heat source a fish tank water heater? If the heat source is under the tub some eggs might have been exposed to higher temperatures. People I know who use a cooler with similar setup have a few computer fans to circulate the air just above the water line and don't open it until the 40 to 50 day mark to keep it as stable as possible. Every time you open that type of incubator you lose a lot of heat and the heat needs to crank up to reach your desired temp again when you close it.

Yes fish tank heater, the thermostat was built into it. I had two thermometers to double check all the temps. I didnt have any fans in the cooler as the atmosphere was nearly 100% humidity and I doubt the fans would survive that. I did however have an aquatic wave maker in the bottom to keep the water moving and eliminate any hotspots. The cooler and incubation box had some 1/4 holes drilled along the brim to keep some fresh air in it.

Just my opinion, but this is why I’m not a fan of the cheap cooler as an incubator idea.

I wish u the best of luck and I hope u get it all figured out.

Sorry to sound so blunt but I also think your issue was the incubator. You may want to try something different or you will be asking the same question next year.

Well I set up an entire topic last year asking about incubators and this was liked by the majority. What would you do then? I have a good thermostat for my rack that I can run a probe off of.

I'm no incubating expect but I can tell you what worked for me after building 4 different incubators. Before I turned a large wine cooler with a false wall into an incubator I had experimented a cooler incubator. I tried water and fish tank heater method but I lost a few eggs with it. What worked best out of all the DIY cooler incubators I tried was using heat tape at the bottom, PVC pipe to create a floor with a light difuser, two small computer fans to circulate the air, a closed egg tub with press and seal and water bottle on the side to retain heat. Don't open the cooler incubator for at least 50 days, if you set the egg tub up correctly you will be fine.

I didn't mean for my last comment to sound snippy. I have an old fridge freezer I am probably going to convert this year. I have a bunch of spare heat tape however I would need to get some fans. What is a light diffuser? Could you post a picture of your incubator?

This is my incubator now, it has a false wall and fans at top and bottom to circulate air.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4ebc2b4550.jpg

When I had the cooler incubator I used a light diffuser or egg crate like the one below over pvc pipe.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6ef8312947.jpg



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Ah I see what you are getting at here. Hest tape up the sides, thermostat probe somewhere in the middle I'm assuming?

See here's were in confused, how do the incubation boxes closes to the chest tape not get hotter then the ones in the middle. Can you fit 2 or 3 boxes wide on one shelf?

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Originally Posted by Weremey59

Yes fish tank heater, the thermostat was built into it.

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I get it: the thermostat was regulating the temperature of the water not the temperature inside the plastic box housing the eggs. I always like to have the thermostat probe in one egg box.

That was one of the concerned I had as well with my incubator before I built it. Either way, I'll be building a new one out of the spare fridge I have. That being said, my incubator will no longer be 99% humidity anymore. That would mean I will have to go to tubs with perilite, light difuser and plastic wrap? I actually need to pay attention to the substrate/water ratio now as well don't I? How often do you air them out/ check on them to watch for rotting or mold?

Sorry I was not very specific, my new incubator is a converted wine chiller. The heat tape does not run from the sides, the heat tape is attached behind a false wall. Heat tape is not visible, I have fans on the top that suck hot air from the main chamber and force it down the false chamber with fans at the bottom of the incubator that blow air out from behind the false wall to the main chamber. I also lined the bottom with water bottles to help retain heat.

The light diffuser sits on top of the substrate, the eggs are never in contact with the perilite. You don't have to worry about getting the right water to perilite ratio. The "press and seal" covers the top of the tub and then you cover the tub with its regular cover to maintain proper humidity inside the tub.

By false wall you mean you attach the heat tape to the wall of the wine cooler then leave a 1/2" so to let air flow between your false wall and the heat tape. Correct? What do you use for a false wall, 1/2 PVC sheet? Obviously the air is being moved with the fans. The thermostat probe is taped to the back wall between the incubation boxes? Do you put thermometers in all of the boxes or in say every second one?

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That felt bad to say. I have also seen videos online of people cutting eggs before one even pips (very reputable breeders might I add). How do they know? How can you be so sure that the eggs dont need another few days to develop? This year I will be cutting the entire clutch when the first one pips but what do you guys thing?

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You know because when you incubate in the same incubator at the same temp each year you know when they are due to pip naturally, I can tell you that the way I incubate everything pips at day 58 to 60, could I cut a few days before? Sure but there is no reason to expose them to possible bacteria or letting them dry out. So what do I do, I let them pip and 24 hours later I cut whatever has not pipped. If nothing has pipped I cut on day 60.