Question about feeding hatchling rat snake

A customer of my husbands breeds snakes and gave us a rat snake hatchling as a present for my sons birthday. Im not exactly sure which species of rat. Looks sort of like a gray rat snake to me, but Ive read that they change a bit as they get older. Ill try to get a pic later so you all can help me identify.
For the last few weeks we have been feeding it small lizards, as he wont take live pinkies or f/t pinkies either. The breeder said most likely they will only eat lizards for a while.
Any advice on getting him to accept mice? Wait until he is bigger? I only ask because now that its getting colder, it can be a little tougher to find wild lizards.

I've never kept rats, so I probably can't help with the transition.

I just wanted to suggest finding a reliable food source though. Feeding wild caught prey items isn't the best idea, they can carry parasites and disease you don't want your snake eating.

I agree with Craig- feeding lizards is risky, as they're so similar to snakes that they can carry all sorts of parasites & pathogens that can affect snakes too, whereas
c/b mice are warm-blooded so they have little in common (in terms of things that cause illness) & snakes eating them are healthier, unless other types of exposure
occurs. Since you've been feeding lizards, you can plan on needing to de-worm this snake but not right now...he needs to eat for a while first.

I've kept (raised & bred) all sorts of rat snakes, but never had any that wouldn't eat pinky mice...I've never in all these years fed lizards to a rat snake. Posting a pic
would help, but better to ask the source what kind of rat snake this is, because most in the Pantherophis* family look similar until their true colors come in, or don't, in
the case of gray rat snakes. *The black, yellow, gulf hammock, & even Everglades all look very similar as hatchlings, with the muddy-grey coloration & blotch pattern
going down their dorsal side. I'm raising some "Florida" rat snakes right now, actually...mine are a blend of yellow & gulf hammock & likely Everglades...2 have a dark
grayish blotch pattern, but one is much lighter in warmer (tan) tones so she appears to be more like an Everglades would be at this age. For yellow rat snakes, it can
take a year before they're turning yellow, or with Everglades, they gradually become a little more orange with each shed, but it's a long slow process either way.

You might need to keep a dead lizard in your freezer to scent pinky mice for as long as it takes to get your hatchling switched over. I'm surprised it won't just accept
pinkies...rat snakes are usually bigger & more robust than corn snakes & I've never had any trouble even raising corn snakes on pinkie mice only.

But one thing in particular: you said this snake was a gift for your son? One reason (& maybe the biggest?) it won't eat pinkies is if the snake is being handled...at all.
You should not be handling this snake until it's eating reliably on mice of appropriate size, & grows a lot stronger & bigger. Eating is the most important thing, not
taming or handling. You wouldn't expect a human newborn to play catch, right? ;)

You might also ask the source of this snake where he gets his feeder lizards. Some companies might supply them online, but since I've never bought them, I
cannot tell you which ones.

When you offered a pinkie to this snake, how long had it been since it's last meal? how long since it had been offered food? You need to wait at least a week
between feedings because offering food, especially "new" food, too often just adds to their stress when they aren't really that hungry yet anyway. And the snake needs quiet time & privacy to eat...maybe you're just not offering the right way? Try leaving a pinkie in the cage with the snake overnight, preferably
a f/t one...thaw it in water, & pinch-damage the nose slightly to release more internal scent for your snake, then don't check until morning.

If the snake has been eating live lizards, it might do better with the motion of a live pinky, but wash it off first (to remove most mouse smell) & try to get some lizard scent onto it...then leave it in overnight (as previously described) & only check in the morning.

I've heard that Reptilinks makes some really good scenting products for problem feeders.

https://reptilinks.com/collections/scenting

We got him about 3 weeks ago. I set up a tub for him with heat pad and hides, set at the proper parameters for rat snakes. I believe he told my husband it was about a week old at that time.
He has eaten 1 or 2 lizards since then. Its been an insanely crazy few weeks, so I cant remember if he ate the second one or we took it back out.
I have tried f/t pinkies, a live pinky left in overnight, and even braining the f/t pinky, but he wont eat them. Id much prefer c/b mice, so as to prevent parasites. I will also ask the breeder how he sources his lizards.

As far as handling, he has only been held twice. The second time being today, for about 10 minutes to clean his tub since he pooped and needed fresh water. Since he is so small and fast, I havent let my son really hold him out of fear that he would accidentally grip him too hard and injure or scare him. We are just letting him settle in and adjust.

Ill try washing the pinky and scenting it with a lizard. Maybe that will help.

He seems to be somewhat interested in the smell, bit wont take it. They come towards the pinky and tongue flick repeatedly, but then retreat.

Thank you, thats awesome!

Went in a few minutes ago and he is out exploring. I took the photos through the tub so I wouldnt spook him by opening the lid.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6ad42dd6b0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e3f6eaaae3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1ce06dbae6.jpg

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Does he act defensive when you approach -by that I mean does he coil up & strike at you at all- trying to scare you off? or does he just want to hide?

And do you have feeding tongs?

No, he doesn't coil and strike. If you approach him he will crawl away. He does come towards your hand and flick his tongue to smell you, but he hasnt attempted to bite.

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And yes, I do have feeding tongs

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Originally Posted by Turningstar

No, he doesn't coil and strike. If you approach him he will crawl away. He does come towards your hand and flick his tongue to smell you, but he hasnt attempted to bite.

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I asked because if he were the more defensive (feisty & willing to bite) type I would suggest a different technique, but probably not under the circumstances.

Well I tried another f/t pinky. I thawed and heated to 100° and pinched it, then left it on a plastic lid in his tub. No go. It was still there in the morning. I figured he would be hungry since he was out hunting all over his tub.
My son caught a small anole and put it in there. I saw him hunting all over again, and I dont see the lizard, so I think he ate it.

I guess Ill order some of that anole scent and scent the pinky with it and see if it works.

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Success finally! I put a f/t pinky in and left it after he showed interest, but refused to take it from the tongs. He finally ate one!!

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Congratulations on the successful feeding! I hope he's on the right track now.

Congrats....As Ziggy said "hope he is on the right track" :gj: I know it's a relief that he took F/T. Hopefully he is turning the corner

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Originally Posted by Turningstar

Success finally! I put a f/t pinky in and left it after he showed interest, but refused to take it from the tongs. He finally ate one!!

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Hallelujah! Should get much easier now that he's taken his first pinkie. How long did it take him to eat it after you left it there? (sometimes a snake will respond when the f/t prey finally gets a little bit "ripe", & then
gradually transition to taking fresher f/t prey in subsequent meals) :gj: So glad his hunger finally kicked in- makes a good holiday "gift".

No idea how long it took him. I didnt even want to disturb him to check until the next day. Im so glad he ate it though!

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Originally Posted by Turningstar

No idea how long it took him. I didnt even want to disturb him to check until the next day. Im so glad he ate it though!

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So he might be "one of those" snakes that it took until the pinkie got a little 'ripe' before the snake recognized it as edible. Next few meals just feed him in early evenings & just leave him be until the next morning.

After a few more meals he should get faster at accepting pinkies. I've worked with such a snake before, I could hardly believe my own eyes when the snake ate what I was about to throw out- it really stunk! It had
been all day in his warm cage, & when I got home from work, I was about to remove it but got stuck on the phone for a while...when I came back, he was just swallowing the very "ripe" prey. Hey, whatever works. :rolleyes:

Blech....that so gross. I hope not, but Ill take it if it gets some food in him. The first time I tried a live pinky and it died overnight and from being on the warm heating pad was pretty rank. Just thinking about the smell makes me gag...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turningstar

Blech....that so gross. I hope not, but Ill take it if it gets some food in him. The first time I tried a live pinky and it died overnight and from being on the warm heating pad was pretty rank. Just thinking about the smell makes me gag...

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I agree...the only thing worse than a dead rodent spoiled & reeking in a cage is when it's barfed up after partial digestion. Trust me...;)

Honestly my first "instinct" when that happened (many years back) was to try to stop the snake from swallowing it, but it was much too late. It wasn't a rat snake, btw, but this can happen with various kinds, and
it did happen to be a kind that typically feeds on lizards in the wild before "graduating" to rodents or mixed prey. And nothing bad came of it, & that snake took fresher f/t rodents from then on...it was something it
just had to learn I guess, & all we can do is let nature take it's course sometimes.