UGH! Agressiveness is still a porblem!

Well after telling you people about Link and you guys gave me the advice to feed in his cage I did. And now He's striking at my hands outside the cage! I've had to wear mittens to handle him. UGH! I need some help.

make sure his setup is clean and everything is right. (temps,humidity,hides)
keep handling him a few minutes at a time, you may have to take a bite or two. after a few weeks or maybe months he may or may not calm down. usually the little ones are more nippy than adults, some snakes will always be that way though.


vaughn

I agree with checking your humidity/temp levals. Sounds like you have a stressed out snake on your hands. Are you feeding enough? Not sure what you've been told in the past but the problem may be as simple as you trying to hold him too often too soon, after you check his environment I would leave him alone for 2 weeks, only going in to give fresh water), after 2 weeks take him out and feed him and then allow another week with out holding. After this give it a try.

frustration is not going to get you anywhere...this is an animal with its own mind and own agenda. Its not just going to curl up like a kitten when it sees you. You have WORK at gaining trust and making sure you have the environment setup properly. If you stop interactions now you will never change its attitude.

ive had this problem with my first snake, a male ball python. struck at everything, even if i was in my door which was half way across the room from his enclosure. here is what i did...

i tryed putting a tshirt that smelled like me in his enclosure. didnt work. i would wear gloves to get him out, moving away everytime he snapped. well one time, i just got sick of it, and picked him up with no gloves. yea, i got tagged. drew some blood. i just wiped it off and continued handling him. i just started doing that from now on. bites didnt hurt really, just like a bee sting. i just started letting myself get tagged, and kept holding him. he calmed down. i dont have him anymore, but last i heard hes pretty docile. the key is, dont give up. if you let him have his way and not handle him if he snaps then hes gonna get it that if he snaps, he wont be held, thus being aggressive its whole life.

i find its best for a beginner (at least for me) to start out with a smaller, nippy snake. part of owning these animals is getting bit, and no matter how tame and how long youve had the animal, it will bite you at one point. i think anyone here can tell you that. its good to get comfortable somewhat with being bit, especially if your looking to get into more snakes, and bigger ones.

I guess I've been lucky guys, I have two bp's male and female I also have a dumeril boa never seen a slight hint of aggression. Is their a chance that your bp could be wild caught.

Good, advice guys. I'm handling him on the same day every few weeks for a few minutes. After a while of this I'll increase the time of how long he's out and how much I handle him. Do you thin kthis would work? Temps look fine, 90 hot side and 82 cool side. I am getting some Flexwatt to make sure that the temps are right.

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Originally Posted by emilio

I guess I've been lucky guys, I have two bp's male and female I also have a dumeril boa never seen a slight hint of aggression. Is their a chance that your bp could be wild caught.

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It could be a chance. But he hasn't been this way all time. Just a little after the first year of having him he's been like this.

It may be possible, and those of you feel free to correct me, but if you snake is older then it's possible it has to do with the upcoming 'breeding season'. Even if he doesn't have a girlfriend, maybe he's trying to be dominant to be available for any that might come his way? I'm just throwing this out there, so I could be wrong. Did this begin shortly after the temps dropped?

Does he bite you and let go immediately? Or does he bite you and not let go?

For a normally docile ball to become suddenly aggressive I'd be thinking back hard to what was going on when this all started. If it's possible it's a male snake/breeding season activity...did the seasons change about then or was there a drop in his tank temps for any reason. If it's something else like maybe you startled him, he struck and you reacted strongly enough to reinforce the action? Any major changes in his environment in the tank and in the room the tank is in? Change of prey?

Remember though Link isn't being "mean". He'd have to form an intent to be mean. He's just reacting instinctively to some sort of stimuli and it's your job as his keeper to figure out what that is and if it's possible to make adjustments to lower the reaction.

I believe strongly that snakes (and most animals) react to signals we aren't even aware we are broadcasting. When humans get nervous, stressed, frustrated, etc. we smell different, we breath different and often our hand movements are fast and jerky. I know from handling Brannagh our big aggressive female that the only time she did manage to tag me I was nervous of her and I was also trying to clean her tank when I was overly busy that day anyway. I know Brannagh reacts more calmly if Mike and I are firm, fast and sure in our handling of her. Now that I've experienced Brannagh's bite I lost my fear and anxiety of it. My handling of her is so much easier now that I'm not broadcasting that to the snake on a level I can't pick up but I'm pretty sure she can.


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by Lady Python

Does he bite you and let go immediately? Or does he bite you and not let go?

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He bites and lets go immediately.

The temps may be the problem. So as I said I'm getitng some Flexwatt to see if it helps any.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

For a normally docile ball to become suddenly aggressive I'd be thinking back hard to what was going on when this all started. If it's possible it's a male snake/breeding season activity...did the seasons change about then or was there a drop in his tank temps for any reason. If it's something else like maybe you startled him, he struck and you reacted strongly enough to reinforce the action? Any major changes in his environment in the tank and in the room the tank is in? Change of prey?

Remember though Link isn't being "mean". He'd have to form an intent to be mean. He's just reacting instinctively to some sort of stimuli and it's your job as his keeper to figure out what that is and if it's possible to make adjustments to lower the reaction.

I believe strongly that snakes (and most animals) react to signals we aren't even aware we are broadcasting. When humans get nervous, stressed, frustrated, etc. we smell different, we breath different and often our hand movements are fast and jerky. I know from handling Brannagh our big aggressive female that the only time she did manage to tag me I was nervous of her and I was also trying to clean her tank when I was overly busy that day anyway. I know Brannagh reacts more calmly if Mike and I are firm, fast and sure in our handling of her. Now that I've experienced Brannagh's bite I lost my fear and anxiety of it. My handling of her is so much easier now that I'm not broadcasting that to the snake on a level I can't pick up but I'm pretty sure she can.


~~Jo~~

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Well the first time I had been bit it had been a while sinse I had handled him. And I have been nervous ever sinse. So maybe it is that.

can someone explain what temps have to do with snappiness??

Well I'll take a stab at this....hmmm.

Ok here's my take on it. Low temps cause sluggishness and such, so on the other end of the spectrum high temps would cause an increase in activity. I would think it's kinda like putting them on a lot of caffiene. If you're body is in super overdrive it's hard to have normal reactions. Well that's kinda how I think of it, but I could be wrong.

I just know that a lot of people complain of strikes and abnormal behavior when the temps are higher than the recommended range. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Well I'll take a stab at this....hmmm.

Ok here's my take on it. Low temps cause sluggishness and such, so on the other end of the spectrum high temps would cause an increase in activity. I would think it's kinda like putting them on a lot of caffiene. If you're body is in super overdrive it's hard to have normal reactions. Well that's kinda how I think of it, but I could be wrong.

I just know that a lot of people complain of strikes and abnormal behavior when the temps are higher than the recommended range. :rolleyes:

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My temps are acually a little low. Not very much, but sinse it's winter in Minnesota the temps have dropped a bit. But the Flexwatt should clear that up.

Also, at least for me and Mike, if we see any abrupt change in behaviour the first thing we look at is husbandry of that snake (temp, etc), then at changes in how we've handled or fed that snake, any change in the room environment the snake's tub is in and obviously any issues with health with that snake.

If everything is bang on and nothing has changed and the snake is healthy then we just chaulk it up to a bad day with that snake and just become more aware of any permanent change in that snake's patterns.

I do think after a strike/bite from a snake that is normally docile both the handler and the snake need to get re-acquainted sort of. If you've cut back handling due to a bite or are now nervous of it happening again, I'll bet the snake senses the change and it's making it even more jumpy which of course then sets you both up for a poor time of it.

I'm no snake expert mind you. I'm still such a newb myself but my instincts tell me that in that situation, just take small steps to get your interaction with your snake back on an even keel again. Be very patient, everything with these lovely creatures takes time, patience and absolute dedication to their unique needs.

Funny since we've gotten snakes I'm remembering so much the wisdom of the words "as you sow, so shall you reap".


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Also, at least for me and Mike, if we see any abrupt change in behaviour the first thing we look at is husbandry of that snake (temp, etc), then at changes in how we've handled or fed that snake, any change in the room environment the snake's tub is in and obviously any issues with health with that snake.

If everything is bang on and nothing has changed and the snake is healthy then we just chaulk it up to a bad day with that snake and just become more aware of any permanent change in that snake's patterns.

I do think after a strike/bite from a snake that is normally docile both the handler and the snake need to get re-acquainted sort of. If you've cut back handling due to a bite or are now nervous of it happening again, I'll bet the snake senses the change and it's making it even more jumpy which of course then sets you both up for a poor time of it.

I'm no snake expert mind you. I'm still such a newb myself but my instincts tell me that in that situation, just take small steps to get your interaction with your snake back on an even keel again. Be very patient, everything with these lovely creatures takes time, patience and absolute dedication to their unique needs.

Funny since we've gotten snakes I'm remembering so much the wisdom of the words "as you sow, so shall you reap".


~~Jo~~

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So do you think handling him on an increasing schedual(sp?) will help?

Well like anything I do stuff in small, slow steps personally. Things like just reaching in to stroke your snake and see how that goes as far as any hissing, balling up or attempt to strike. Then maybe a nice quiet short handling session with a good start and good end to it. Handling doesn't have to be long, it just needs to be low stress and easy on both you and the snake. If you are at all nervous of a nip then pop on a pair of work gloves. Heck I wouldn't dream of handling our Brannagh without my pair on LOL but she's an extreme case and certainly not the norm.

If you take it really slow and it goes well then both you and your snake can rebuild the good interactions and you can feel a lot more confident which will in turn I firmly believe help your snake feel safer in your hands. If you set up your handling sessions for times when you are relaxed, the snake is up and about in the evening, it's not hungry and looking for prey or whatever, you are setting an good environment for success.

Some snakes though are more nippy than others and any snake can bite. That's just the nature of the creature and something we have to accept. All you can do is work slowly to find the ways to make your own snake feel safe and secure so you lessen it's need to feel defensive and strike at you. Remember it's not a mean snake, it's just doing what mother nature designed it to do under a certain set of circumstances.


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well like anything I do stuff in small, slow steps personally. Things like just reaching in to stroke your snake and see how that goes as far as any hissing, balling up or attempt to strike. Then maybe a nice quiet short handling session with a good start and good end to it. Handling doesn't have to be long, it just needs to be low stress and easy on both you and the snake. If you are at all nervous of a nip then pop on a pair of work gloves. Heck I wouldn't dream of handling our Brannagh without my pair on LOL but she's an extreme case and certainly not the norm.

If you take it really slow and it goes well then both you and your snake can rebuild the good interactions and you can feel a lot more confident which will in turn I firmly believe help your snake feel safer in your hands. If you set up your handling sessions for times when you are relaxed, the snake is up and about in the evening, it's not hungry and looking for prey or whatever, you are setting an good environment for success.

Some snakes though are more nippy than others and any snake can bite. That's just the nature of the creature and something we have to accept. All you can do is work slowly to find the ways to make your own snake feel safe and secure so you lessen it's need to feel defensive and strike at you. Remember it's not a mean snake, it's just doing what mother nature designed it to do under a certain set of circumstances.


~~Jo~~

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You know. I thin kthis may be food related. He doesn'y seem at all scared me my hands. I think he may be associating them with food. Then agai nhe does strike when I try to pick him up.

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Originally Posted by landofthelost

can someone explain what temps have to do with snappiness??

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Stress. Poor husbandry can lead to an uncomfortable and stressed out animal. It can also lead to an animal that is slowly becoming sick. Sick animals are a natural taget or predators in the wild and therefore become extremely defensive.

But if the temps are good to go (measured with a decent thermometer) and the snake is a little bit of an older animal, I'd just chalk it up to teenage angst. He'll settle down eventually.

-adam

Gosh I won't survive my snake's teenage angst Adam! I'm barely surviving my 2 human teenagers and 1 human pre-teen's angst! Can either the teenage snakes or teenage kids (prefer kids to be honest LOL) come live with "Uncle" Adam till they mature and get normal again!!! LOL

Quick question, why do you think your snake is associating your hands with food?


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Gosh I won't survive my snake's teenage angst Adam! I'm barely surviving my 2 human teenagers and 1 human pre-teen's angst! Can either the teenage snakes or teenage kids (prefer kids to be honest LOL) come live with "Uncle" Adam till they mature and get normal again!!! LOL

Quick question, why do you think your snake is associating your hands with food?


~~Jo~~

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That's what I'm not sure of. I've fed him outside his cage until a few of the guys here said I didn't need to. Now he thin kthat my opening his cage or my havign my hands near him means food.

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Originally Posted by First_time_herp

That's what I'm not sure of. I've fed him outside his cage until a few of the guys here said I didn't need to. Now he thin kthat my opening his cage or my havign my hands near him means food.

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Do you give him fresh water every day and clean his cage on a regular basis?

-adam

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Originally Posted by First_time_herp

That's what I'm not sure of. I've fed him outside his cage until a few of the guys here said I didn't need to. Now he thin kthat my opening his cage or my havign my hands near him means food.

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Personally I've always fed in a different feed box and have never seen a reason to change that :)

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Originally Posted by iceman25

Personally I've always fed in a different feed box and have never seen a reason to change that :)

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If it works for you, great! ... But remember, not everyone is lucky enough to have a snake that can be moved prior to feeding without being stressed. The key is to figure out what works best for you and your snake.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

If it works for you, great! ... But remember, not everyone is lucky enough to have a snake that can be moved prior to feeding without being stressed. The key is to figure out what works best for you and your snake.

-adam

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Exactly! Though I guess it would become a pain in the butt if you own like a hundred of em :picknose:

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Originally Posted by iceman25

Exactly! Though I guess it would become a pain in the butt if you own like a hundred of em :picknose:

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Pain in the butt or not, you can't let a large collection be an excuse for doing what's best. I feel that we have a responsibility to do the absolute best we can for the animals in our care!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Pain in the butt or not, you can't let a large collection be an excuse for doing what's best. I feel that we have a responsibility to do the absolute best we can for the animals in our care!

-adam

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Sorry if that came across in the wrong manner. One can never express something clearly online without it being misintepreted in the wrong way. I suggested that it would be a pain in the butt jokingly and that was it. I did not in anyway infer that we should stop doing the right thing for the snakes if that aforementioned thing becomes a "pain in the butt." Hope that cleared things up for ya! So hence, our feelings on this topic of doing the things that work for our snakes whether they be a pain or not are the same :)

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Originally Posted by iceman25

Sorry if that came across in the wrong manner. One can never express something clearly online without it being misintepreted in the wrong way. I suggested that it would be a pain in the butt jokingly and that was it. I did not in anyway infer that we should stop doing the right thing for the snakes if that aforementioned thing becomes a "pain in the butt." Hope that cleared things up for ya! So hence, our feelings on this topic of doing the things that work for our snakes whether they be a pain or not are the same :)

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It's all good ... I knew what you meant for sure. I was just posting for the sake of someone new coming across the thread and reading it the wrong way! ... We're on the same page! ;) :D

ROCK ON!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

It's all good ... I knew what you meant for sure. I was just posting for the sake of someone new coming across the thread and reading it the wrong way! ... We're on the same page! ;) :D

ROCK ON!

-adam

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:handshake

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Do you give him fresh water every day and clean his cage on a regular basis?

-adam

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I give him fresh water every day and usually clean has cage every two wees. I've been a little nervous to do it lately though.

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Originally Posted by First_time_herp

I give him fresh water every day and usually clean has cage every two wees. I've been a little nervous to do it lately though.

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If you're putting your hands in his cage every day (or at least several times a week) to give him fresh water and clean the cage, he's not going to associate your hands with food from just feeding him once a week.

Work with him more often, clean the cage more often, handle him as much as possible ... if you're afraid, he's going to be afraid ... settle down and have fun! :D

-adam

Wonderful advice Adam! I have to be honest and admit there's been times I've been afraid of Brannagh. She's such a large female now and so fast to attempt to bite. I just had to sit myself down and decide that no way was that snake going to control our interactions and I needed to be able to handle her, if for no other reason than cage maintenance. I still stand by her tub and take a deep breath to steady myself and remind myself I can handle this snake safely, shove on my gloves, have her transport cage open and ready and just "git er done".

Amazing that since I've had a talk to myself LOL and steadied my own response, Brannagh has calmed down considerably. She still isn't and never will be likely a "pet" snake but she's easier to manage and I'm quite proud of myself for not letting my fear of a bite override all else. Actually her biting me recently was a good thing as it got that over with and I realized that with gloves on it's really not a big deal.

Also a good dose of humor helps LOL. I often say to Brann as I'm going in after her..."okay you snot of a snake, that poop you just dropped is coming out and so the heck are you!...now we'll do it the easy way or the tough way darlin but it's about to happen!" I highly doubt Brann could care about my little pep talk but heck it makes me feel nifty keen! :P

Just keep on keepin on first time....you'll get there! We all sometimes have our "difficult child" snake (heck if my mother was here she'd confirm I was HER difficult child LOL).


~~Jo~~

Ok. I'm going to feed Link otmarrow and then after a few days I'll try and handle him again this time calming myself.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Also a good dose of humor helps LOL. I often say to Brann as I'm going in after her..."okay you snot of a snake, that poop you just dropped is coming out and so the heck are you!...now we'll do it the easy way or the tough way darlin but it's about to happen!" I highly doubt Brann could care about my little pep talk but heck it makes me feel nifty keen! :P


~~Jo~~

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I love your humor, Jo - I often laugh when I read your posts. It's just so the way to sort these critters that bite us. I have no problem with our snake (but then she's only a baby) but I do have a Vampire Parrot who's off to the vet for a wing trim next weekend as he'll fly to attack when he's in hormonal mood - at least snakes can't do that :) Ever since we've had Emily our Ball I've said she's the perfect pet - doesn't require a lot of attention - only feed once a week - and no hormonals!!

Sue

Thanks Sue! Sounds like quite the parrot LOL but they do say they are like having a perpetual 2 year old in the house (tantrums and all) LOL.

I try to see the humor in a lot of stuff these days. Maybe it's turning 40 a few years back or just realizing most of life is rather silly, or just coming from a whole line of crazy, redneck Canadian womenfolk who tend to have wacky senses of humor! Hmmm but then if you grew up around the strange Canadian menfolk in my family, you either learn to laugh it off or go find a really big cast iron frying pan! LOL


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Hmmm but then if you grew up around the strange Canadian menfolk in my family, you either learn to laugh it off or go find a really big cast iron frying pan! LOL


~~Jo~~

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Lol! :lmao:

That sounds just the attitude - I too, turned 40 a few years ago, it definitely makes a difference - I feel I'm a better more tolerant person than I was 20 years ago ... and yes - having a parrot is definitely like a permanent 2 year old (or teenager at his worst!)

Sue