Animal Plastics - RHP Heating w/ a Shelf

Hey there...

I'm in the middle of trying to dial in my temps on a new AP T10 w/ a shelf and heated with a RHP. I'm finding it a little trickier then my 1st AP since this one has a shelf and the other didn't. In both enclosures, I have the probe hanging down the backside of the enclosure underneath the RHP. The Herpstat is set to 86 on the original enclosure and provides the temps i'm looking for (88 Hot and 79 cool). The new enclosure, I have the probe just beneath the shelf. Curious where others have it placed when using a shelf.

So far, I have the Herpstat set on 82.5 and I'm getting the following readings (two readings taken today)

Top Shelf Hot (85-89) and Hot Floor Bottom (89-94)
Top Shelf Cool (79-80) and Cool Floor Bottom (80)

I'm assuming the fluctuation has something do with the RHP heating up the shelf and it's projection on the bottom.

Thanks

I'd try setting the thermostat to 80*F and see where the temps end up. If you can get the hot floor down to 91*F without the cool side temp dropping more than a degree IMO that would be perfect.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I'd try setting the thermostat to 80*F and see where the temps end up. If you can get the hot floor down to 91*F without the cool side temp dropping more than a degree IMO that would be perfect.

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Thanks BCR! I started my testing at 80 and here were the results of my increments:

80 Setting: Hot (85) Cool (78)
81 Setting: Hot (86) Cool (79)
82 Setting: Hot (87-89) Cool (80)
82.5 Setting: Hot (93-94) Cool (80)
82.5 Setting: Hot (89-90) Cool (80)
82.5 Setting: Hot (90) Cool (80)

What has me scratching my head is that 1st 82.5 reading w/ the high floor readings. One thing I don't think I've seen before is my Herpstat will show 83 w/ 0% even though it's set to 82.5. Wondering if it's because the probe is positioned right below the heated shelf.

Yeah that is weird. Given that info I'd go with the 82*F setting and then re-evaluate in a week or so based on the snake's behavior. Remember that the RHP will make your snake a bit warmer than the surface temps you've been reading since it's back is closer to the RHP.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Yeah that is weird. Given that info I'd go with the 82*F setting and then re-evaluate in a week or so based on the snake's behavior. Remember that the RHP will make your snake a bit warmer than the surface temps you've been reading since it's back is closer to the RHP.

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I’m not sure what’s going on. I checked again this morning at the 82.5 setting and saw the high temps I previously measured yesterday (93-94) so I dropped it back down to 82 and I’m still seeing the (93-94). I waited a couple hours before I rechecked.. I’m still wandering if it has something to do with the shelf and probe placement.

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Just wondering, have you tried fiddling with the power % setting on the herpstat? I personally found lowering it to something like 70%-80% power helps keep heat spikes in check a little more. Mind you I don't know how true that is other than it's what I personally observed for my herpstat and rhp. But may be worth looking into?

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

Just wondering, have you tried fiddling with the power % setting on the herpstat? I personally found lowering it to something like 70%-80% power helps keep heat spikes in check a little more. Mind you I don't know how true that is other than it's what I personally observed for my herpstat and rhp. But may be worth looking into?

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No, I've never messed with this setting. In fact, I've only ever set the Day time temperature on the 1st setting which I think is Dimming. It might be worth checking out. Thank you!

It's just puzzling that I'm seeing almost 10 degree differences between today and yesterday.

This is off topic but did you just drill a hole and let your probe hang freely or how do you have it secured?

CK- I noticed some erratic temp swings when I had my probe in the same place yours is. Can your probe fit into the same hole as your RHP cord? I was able to squeeze mine in there. Now I have my probe hanging about an inch lower than the RHP. My temps have been very consistent this way.

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Originally Posted by EWC88

This is off topic but did you just drill a hole and let your probe hang freely or how do you have it secured?

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Yes, that's correct. You can also tape the wire to the back of the enclosure to limit it's movement.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

CK- I noticed some erratic temp swings when I had my probe in the same place yours is. Can your probe fit into the same hole as your RHP cord? I was able to squeeze mine in there. Now I have my probe hanging about an inch lower than the RHP. My temps have been very consistent this way.

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Much appreciated response Buddy! I'll try this and hopefully it will solve my issues because it's driving me crazy. I've tried lowering my Herpstat temp settings 2 degrees and the floor temps still remain in the 93-94 range.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Yes, that's correct. You can also tape the wire to the back of the enclosure to limit it's movement.

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Two thoughts.

1. Never put tape, or anything sticky in your enclosures. This can hurt your animals. If you want to secure a probe, drill another small hole or two and secure with a plastic zip tie.

2. If I can see it correctly, the probe is below the shelf? Maybe you can put it closer to the RHP and above the shelf and just adjust temp accordingly? In my boaphile tank for my carpet python, where the higher perch is further back and closer to the RHP, I keep the probe at the same height and do have to keep a closer on eye on that tank then other tanks as room temp changes. This is just a thought and I am not clear on how the shelf can impact things as I've never had one.

As I mentioned in #1, securing the probe with a zip tie might help keep it against the wall of the tank and above the shelf.

Keep us in the loop and good luck.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Two thoughts.

1. Never put tape, or anything sticky in your enclosures. This can hurt your animals. If you want to secure a probe, drill another small hole or two and secure with a plastic zip tie.

2. If I can see it correctly, the probe is below the shelf? Maybe you can put it closer to the RHP and above the shelf and just adjust temp accordingly? In my boaphile tank for my carpet python, where the higher perch is further back and closer to the RHP, I keep the probe at the same height and do have to keep a closer on eye on that tank then other tanks as room temp changes. This is just a thought and I am not clear on how the shelf can impact things as I've never had one.

As I mentioned in #1, securing the probe with a zip tie might help keep it against the wall of the tank and above the shelf.

Keep us in the loop and good luck.

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Thanks Dave for weighing in! Yes, I agree.....NEVER put tape inside your enclosure. I used tape on the outside (back) of my enclosure to secure the wires and it's worked well.

As per Ziggy's and your recommendation, I'm going to try and move the probe from under to above the shelf (closer to the RHP) and see if that makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Thanks Dave for weighing in! Yes, I agree.....NEVER put tape inside your enclosure. I used tape on the outside (back) of my enclosure to secure the wires and it's worked well.

As per Ziggy's and your recommendation, I'm going to try and move the probe from under to above the shelf (closer to the RHP) and see if that makes a difference.

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Cool. I figured your meant outside, but wanted to be clear for the benefit of others reading as well.

I've had bad luck with tape and do recommend zip ties, but whatever works for you is what matters.

I think it will be much better closer to the RHP, but keep us posted.

*** UPDATE ***

I took the advice of some and moved my tstat probe from under the shelf to above. I was hoping to route it through the RHP power cord slot but it wouldn't fit so I managed to use the corner of the enclosure where the light source power cord exits. The probe now hangs (dangles) about an inch from the ceiling in the corner of the enclosure on the outer edge of the RHP. From the early looks of it, I feel good about the temps staying more consistent. Hoping this placement is good and doesn't need to be centered in the middle of the RHP. Any commentary would be greatly appreciated.

Here's my early readings:

Tstat Setting (81)

Hot Ledge (83-87) Middle Ledge (83) Cool Ledge (78-80)
Hot Floor (86-89) Middle Bottom (86) Cool Bottom (79-80)

*** Two additional questions / comments **

The last 2-3 days, I've noticed my BOA on the hot side outside of his hide just coiled up which is odd for him since he usually spends all day curled up in his cool side hide. He then travels to the middle area by early evening and relaxes on the branch which is heated by the RHP. Normally I would suspect a difference in temps but I spot checked and didn't seen anything that seemed abnormal. Hopefully this is nothing to worry about.

By my watch, a shed should be coming soon even though I haven't visually noticed any signs. Should I wait to move him to his new enclosure or do you think it's ok (once I feel good about the temps).

This might be a thought, now I’m new to this because I need to set mine up, but Spyder robotics told me to route the prob in its own hole because other power sources can mess with the readings some how. But if you’re not having anymore issues then that’s good!

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Thanks BCR! I started my testing at 80 and here were the results of my increments:

80 Setting: Hot (85) Cool (78)
81 Setting: Hot (86) Cool (79)
82 Setting: Hot (87-89) Cool (80)
82.5 Setting: Hot (93-94) Cool (80)
82.5 Setting: Hot (89-90) Cool (80)
82.5 Setting: Hot (90) Cool (80)

What has me scratching my head is that 1st 82.5 reading w/ the high floor readings. One thing I don't think I've seen before is my Herpstat will show 83 w/ 0% even though it's set to 82.5. Wondering if it's because the probe is positioned right below the heated shelf.

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You’re 100% correct even though the herpstat kicks off the radiant heat panel itself is still hot and warms the probe up... when minded that I turned my herpstat down to 80%, this lowered the power which lowered the degree of the radiant heat panels And fix that problem for me. Also remember an extra degree here or there is not going to matter anyways... nothing is exact not even the thermometers or thermostats... snakes are very smart when it comes to regulating themselves, my snakes even lay in between the cool and hot they find the best place to regulate.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by EWC88

This might be a thought, now I’m new to this because I need to set mine up, but Spyder robotics told me to route the prob in its own hole because other power sources can mess with the readings some how. But if you’re not having anymore issues then that’s good!

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I've heard about the crossing of wires giving out odd readings but I believe it was the shelf that was causing the huge swings in temperature. Since I've moved the probe above the shelf, the temps seemed to be consistent.

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

You’re 100% correct even though the herpstat kicks off the radiant heat panel itself is still hot and warms the probe up... when minded that I turned my herpstat down to 80%, this lowered the power which lowered the degree of the radiant heat panels And fix that problem for me. Also remember an extra degree here or there is not going to matter anyways... nothing is exact not even the thermometers or thermostats... snakes are very smart when it comes to regulating themselves, my snakes even lay in between the cool and hot they find the best place to regulate.


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Good to hear from you Calm! It was many moons again when you helped me with my 1st RHP setup. Totally understand how temps can fluctuate but these swings were pretty big and worrisome which I really think was due to the probe placement under the shelf. My next test (if the movement of the probe did not work) was to play with the Herpstat Power as you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Good to hear from you Calm! It was many moons again when you helped me with my 1st RHP setup. Totally understand how temps can fluctuate but these swings were pretty big and worrisome which I really think was due to the probe placement under the shelf. My next test (if the movement of the probe did not work) was to play with the Herpstat Power as you mentioned.

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Yep I agree I’m sure the shelf contributed to that like you say, what I’ve done is one of my enclosures is i ran the probe wire over the top of the heat panel, now it hangs between the Glass and the panel. It’s been in that one like that for three years and hasn’t bbothered the wire at all... Have fun trying different things and see what works best for you :)
Good to talk to you again I’ll be visiting the forum more after next month when I’m off for the winter


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So I reached out to Dion at Spyder Robotics LLC (Herpstat) about my issues with spikes in temperature when a shelf is involved. He agreed that with the probe below the shelf, you are gaining too much heat above it and when it finally gets up to temp it turns the power off but the heat build up above keeps providing heat and overshoots. Then when it cools down its taking too long for the heat to build up again so you get a big drop in temp before it recovers and is why you get the big swings in temp.

He recommended putting the probe "directly" on the RHP which I haven't considered because I've never heard of anyone on this forum recommend such. Also recommended securing with tape which I know enough not to go that route.

Currently, I have the probe dangling an inch from the ceiling in the corner of the enclosure. I've seen more consistent temps this way but have also witnessed some spikes (i.e. 88-90 most of the readings and then an occasional 90-92 reading).

Any ideas?

Sounds like you have the right idea but don't use tape inside the cage that's a disaster waiting to happen. Use some water proof sealant or drying adhesive.



Good luck !

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Originally Posted by Ba11er

Sounds like you have the right idea but don't use tape inside the cage that's a disaster waiting to happen. Use some water proof sealant or drying adhesive.



Good luck !

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Spoke to Bob at ProProducts and he said putting the probe on the RHP is probably the worst place to put it. It’s amazing how you get so many differing opinions in this field. I guess you have to keep trying things until you get it right. I’ll probably experiment with the probe placed horizontally (more surface area to heat) on the back wall near the middle of the RHP. And then I’ll just use the sealant that came with the AP to secure it.

Once good placement is located I’d use a nylon cable clamp with a 1/4” screw to hold in place. Won’t budge, easily removed, no sealant drying/curing time