Ball python spazzing out during the day

I'm so worried about my little Crowley I am in tears from what he's doing. So in an earlier post I mentioned how he'd twitch when I was petting him gently, I was told this was because he didn't want to be handled/touched. I'm afraid it could be something worse. He couldn't sleep today, he had his back end half in his hide this morning so I put his bum back in his hide and left him alone. About 4 hours later he moved the hide and twitched his head out like he was spazzing. His hides are light but I am currently in the process of trying to get slate rocks to hold them down. I'm not sure what to do as every time he goes in his hide he does a twitching spaz and knocks his hide way out of place.

I tried bringing him in his room as he does have a hide at 90 degrees and one at 80 degrees in there and the humidity is fine at the moment. He was spazzing just as much in there as soon as he'd try going in a hide, I also offered him his tent as it is soft but he didn't want to go in there. I put him back in his main tank to see if he could go to sleep but now he's spazzing even more. I just took a video which brought me to tears as you can probably hear in the video. He just keeps doing that and if I try to fix it I feel like I'm just stressing him out even further.

Please help, I don't know what is wrong with my baby, he was fine yesterday.

Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/tgFX8z5UAN8

Could it have anything to do with that giant ass bird you have right next to him?! In the wild birds are predators so he might be associating your bird with death. I'd say separate them asap.

He's been fine with the giant bird, I've had the bird since the end of April and it wasn't a problem till now, Crowley is still spazzing around and my nearest vet is 3 and a half hours away.

That kind of looks like a seizure to me, maybe a vet trip is in order :(

Really hoping Crowley will be okay, that video was really hard to watch

Have you checked for mites?

But either way, vet is probably a good idea.

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Originally Posted by wnateg

Have you checked for mites?

But either way, vet is probably a good idea.

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I don't see any mites, I tried to hold his hide down while he went in it and he spazzed so hard I couldn't even hold it down. He's been doing what he did on that video for almost an hour now. If he doesn't get better I will have to take that 3 and a half hour trip to the vet. I really hope my baby will be okay. It's so painful seeming him like this, he's only 6 years old.

So sorry...I would NOT put heavy things on his hides to hold them down...they may slide off onto him & hurt him.

It does sort of look like a seizure to me too, vet trip may be a good idea. Also you might ask the vet if you should bring any bird droppings to test...it's possible that
your bird is carrying something that could make your snake sick, & since he's in close contact (same room etc) that might be worth looking into rather than a "shot in
the dark treatment".

Feel better soon, little Crowley. :please:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

So sorry...I would NOT put heavy things on his hides to hold them down...they may slide off onto him & hurt him.

It does sort of look like a seizure to me too, vet trip may be a good idea. Also you might ask the vet if you should bring any bird droppings to test...it's possible that
your bird is carrying something that could make your snake sick, & since he's in close contact (same room etc) that might be worth looking into rather than a "shot in
the dark treatment".

Feel better soon, little Crowley. :please:

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Thank you so much for your answer, Crowley is still having a hard time, poor little guy. I won't put rocks on the hides then. My bird poops so much I have no issue bringing in a sample. I'll probably have to do an emergency visit to the vet tomorrow if Crowley isn't doing any better by then. At least I know people who live near the vet but it's 3 and a half hours away for me so today isn't an option.

Another thing: are you renting where you live? (some landlords spray without much notice when you're not home) And is there any chance that he's come in
contact with any pesticides while on his "missions"? Or what about any other chemicals...like room freshener sprays, cleaning chemicals, etc.?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Another thing: are you renting where you live? (some landlords spray without much notice when you're not home) And is there any chance that he's come in
contact with any pesticides while on his "missions"? Or what about any other chemicals...like room freshener sprays, cleaning chemicals, etc.?

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I own, so no pesticides and I don't use air fresheners or anything that smells really because it's lethal to birds and I have a parrot. I didn't even use the hair dryer to tighten plastics on the windows as that can also kill a bird with just the fumes. I use unscented detergent, non-Teflon pans (Ceramic). Nothing recent has changed with what I do in or around the house.

I was trying not to disturb him for a while but he was still doing the same thing. He spazzes the hide around so it's not usable, he'll roam around in the crooked hide, you can see him from every side because it ends up angled. He did this for an hour before I ended up taking him out and necking him, fixing the hide and putting him back, no matter how many times I do this he spazzes once he goes in the hide again, I switched the bed inside to see if that was the issue but same thing. I got another video, once he saw me he zoomed right towards me, then tried the hide again by zooming right in really fast and did his little spazzing thing again. I just feel so bad for my poor little guy as I don't know what to do to help him and it's painful watching him like this not knowing what's going on.

Here's the new video:
https://youtu.be/rPTxpe3hars

Is he ONLY "spazzing" when he goes in the hide? or does he do the same when you touch or handle him?

His movements look normal when he's cruising or drinking...maybe he's unhappy with the hide now? Try something else??? Like maybe a dark pillowcase he could
snuggle into without much restraint?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Is he ONLY "spazzing" when he goes in the hide? or does he do the same when you touch or handle him?

His movements look normal when he's cruising or drinking...maybe he's unhappy with the hide now? Try something else??? Like maybe a dark pillowcase he could
snuggle into without much restraint?

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It's mostly when he goes in the hide and a few times when I pick him up but once he's on me he's okay, I tried putting him in his room again just now and he actually went in his hide, different style but he has that same one in his main enclosure. He was spazzing over that one earlier though so I don't think it's the hide itself as 2 completely different kinds made him spaz. I'm just happy he finally went in a hide and looks like he's gonna sleep, I will hang out with him in his room and keep an eye on him. He was also spazzing on his way out of the hides too if that makes a difference.

You're absolutely sure there's been no spikes in heat? Thermostat(s) still working correctly and/or room temps haven't spiked? Did you change your food resource anytime recently? Did you use PAM recently?

In the first video, it appears to be neuro-based for sure... development of these symptoms are typically associated with poisoning (insecticides, etc) or over-heating.

Have you handled and/or been around anyone's boas recently? IBD is rare, but just ruling that out with the question.

At the end of the day, if you're worried, you need to go to a vet. I know it's 3.5 hours away, but your anxiety and worry are only going to get worse until you KNOW something - and no one can tell you anything except a vet.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

You're absolutely sure there's been no spikes in heat? Thermostat(s) still working correctly and/or room temps haven't spiked? Did you change your food resource anytime recently? Did you use PAM recently?

In the first video, it appears to be neuro-based for sure... development of these symptoms are typically associated with poisoning (insecticides, etc) or over-heating.

Have you handled and/or been around anyone's boas recently? IBD is rare, but just ruling that out with the question.

At the end of the day, if you're worried, you need to go to a vet. I know it's 3.5 hours away, but your anxiety and worry are only going to get worse until you KNOW something - and no one can tell you anything except a vet.

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I checked with a temperature gun and temps are fine. I went back to the rats he was getting before but he's not eating anyway. Room temps are the same. I have used pam (the baking oil) if that's what you meant recently like maybe 4 days ago. I have not handled any other snakes or even pets other than my macaw.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I checked with a temperature gun and temps are fine. I went back to the rats he was getting before but he's not eating anyway. Room temps are the same. I have used pam (the baking oil) if that's what you meant recently like maybe 4 days ago. I have not handled any other snakes or even pets other than my macaw.

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PAM = Provent-a-mite

It's a mite medicine.

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Originally Posted by wnateg

PAM = Provent-a-mite

It's a mite medicine.

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Nope have not used that.

Watched both videos. The zooming into hide and spazzing on side to *me* and my b/f look like a terrified snake. You've got stuff in the hide (I assume to make it snugger) and he's pushing like crazy against it and the hide making it flop. I personally don't see a neuro issue here, I see a terrified snake (I COULD BE WRONG!). I've seen the zoom, going half stiff, when trying to escape which is what I am basing my opinion on plus his otherwise normal movements in the rest of the video.

I know you said the bird isn't a big deal, but I really think it is. You should block any visual access they have to each other. I've seen snakes terrified of a moving ceiling fan before. Birds are natural predators of reptiles.
It's at least worth a shot to see if it helps improve the situation if you aren't going to the vet yet. Vet visit would be good to help try to rule out a neuro isssue... just giving my and my b/f's feedback based on what we see in both videos.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Watched both videos. The zooming into hide and spazzing on side to *me* and my b/f look like a terrified snake. You've got stuff in the hide (I assume to make it snugger) and he's pushing like crazy against it and the hide making it flop. I personally don't see a neuro issue here, I see a terrified snake (I COULD BE WRONG!). I've seen the zoom, going half stiff, when trying to escape which is what I am basing my opinion on plus his otherwise normal movements in the rest of the video.

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As a relative noob here take what I think with an open mind, But I'm with the above... at about 1:25 into the 2nd video I see a little bed or something under the hide.

Anything get on it? Any thing sticking out of it? Maybe Crowley just doesn't like the feel of it anymore? Have you tried throwing some Aspen or another substrate under the hide? Something Crowley can kind of burrow in?

Might not make any difference, but again it might.

Good Luck, and I've got my fingers crossed it's just something simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Watched both videos. The zooming into hide and spazzing on side to *me* and my b/f look like a terrified snake. You've got stuff in the hide (I assume to make it snugger) and he's pushing like crazy against it and the hide making it flop. I personally don't see a neuro issue here, I see a terrified snake (I COULD BE WRONG!). I've seen the zoom, going half stiff, when trying to escape which is what I am basing my opinion on plus his otherwise normal movements in the rest of the video.

I know you said the bird isn't a big deal, but I really think it is. You should block any visual access they have to each other. I've seen snakes terrified of a moving ceiling fan before. Birds are natural predators of reptiles.
It's at least worth a shot to see if it helps improve the situation if you aren't going to the vet yet. Vet visit would be good to help try to rule out a neuro isssue... just giving my and my b/f's feedback based on what we see in both videos.

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If this continues I will definitely just move Crowley's enclosure to his room, it's weird that he'd suddenly be scared of my parrot, he usually looks at him like he wants to eat him when he comes out early.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gocntry

As a relative noob here take what I think with an open mind, But I'm with the above... at about 1:25 into the 2nd video I see a little bed or something under the hide.

Anything get on it? Any thing sticking out of it? Maybe Crowley just doesn't like the feel of it anymore? Have you tried throwing some Aspen or another substrate under the hide? Something Crowley can kind of burrow in?

Might not make any difference, but again it might.

Good Luck, and I've got my fingers crossed it's just something simple.

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He has nothing on the bed, I even tried switching it out. I haven't tried substrate yet. Thing is, he was spazzing in a different hide too which was different material and had no bed, same carpet he's had all his life.

Also, would like to add he only hissed lightly (from what I heard) when he was in his room the first time I tried to get him to sleep in there. As of almost 2 hours ago he's been sleeping in his hide the his old enclosure in the room. I put a little water bowl in there with him and let him sleep, I stayed and watched him for a bit and check in on him once in a while and he's still sleeping. He's in his enclosure so I can just close and lock it when I'm not in there.

I’m going to say something that is just my opinion. But that substrate carpet thing I don’t like. I’d get rid of it and replace it with a better substrate and put the bird up

And I agree with above posts...ie. I would not rule out that he's now (suddenly?) more aware of the bird & what you're seeing is his fear of the bird.

Snakes are so subtle & limited in their "expressions" that you have to remain vigilant, & play detective to rule things out. The more you know before you go to the
vet, the better...& hopefully, you won't need the vet. But if it comes down to something likely medical (other things ruled out), then by all means see the vet. And
again, ask if anything carried by your bird could possibly infect your snake...even if this time it's something else, it's something I'd still want to know for future health.

As far as his "hide-flipping", that too could just be Crowley trying to burrow deeper to get away from the bird, but the hide flips (because
it's light-weight) when he tries, & when it comes down on him, he panics & flips his tail against it, making it seem "neuro" when it really
isn't. While you wouldn't want to just lay something heavy on top (as it could hurt him when it slips off), I'd try to come up with some-
thing heavier that he can really burrow into & that's also safe for him. Doesn't have to be something made for snakes, as long as it's safe
...think "outside the box".

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

I’m going to say something that is just my opinion. But that substrate carpet thing I don’t like. I’d get rid of it and replace it with a better substrate and put the bird up

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I know the carpet is an unpopular choice and isn't recommended but that's what I learned to use and it's what Crowley has been used to all his life. I have a good system going where he can still get the humidity and heat he needs with just the carpet. I will move the snake into his room if that persists tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

And I agree with above posts...ie. I would not rule out that he's now (suddenly?) more aware of the bird & what you're seeing is his fear of the bird.

Snakes are so subtle & limited in their "expressions" that you have to remain vigilant, & play detective to rule things out. The more you know before you go to the
vet, the better...& hopefully, you won't need the vet. But if it comes down to something likely medical (other things ruled out), then by all means see the vet. And
again, ask if anything carried by your bird could possibly infect your snake...even if this time it's something else, it's something I'd still want to know for future health.

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I respect and thank everyone for their opinion, I will definitely move Crowley into his room if he keeps spazzing tomorrow. I can easily make room in there and Crowley probably wouldn't mind and then the parrot can have more space. I will definitely ask the vet about the bird possibly carrying and infecting Crowley.

One question about him possibly being scared of the parrot, why would he spaz in his room afterwards? Just lingering fear I guess?

Could be lingering fear...who knows??? It's just one possibility, & trying keeping him in "his own room" may give you a better answer than we can.

Did you say he hasn't been eating now too? Since when was his last meal taken? (probably means nothing...winter's coming & he's a BP...it's what they do, but still?)

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

OP, you clearly care very deeply for your snake, and I appreciate and respect that.

However, your methods are extremely unconventional and your experience is limited to a few years with one animal.

Maybe it's time to try keeping him in the more "standard" way that's advised by experienced keepers.

Snakes are not social animals. And I don't mean this as an insult, but you anthropomorphise with the best of them. You love your snake, that's obvious. But I think you often forget the most important thing...he's a snake.

Snakes don't look forward to time outside the enclosure the way you feel Crowley does. They aren't animals that enjoy roaming and cruising all day...that's why BPs aren't photographed and observed just cruising around in nature. They are secretive, solitary and nocturnal.
Your routine of having him out for hours all day is not allowing him to just...be a snake.

And the bird, I'm sorry but that can't possibly be helping the situation. Snakes and other pets don't mix, period. Especially when one is a perfect predator to the other.

So what I'm getting at is, there's a reason us experienced keepers keep our animals the way we do and advise others to do so. It works.

We have years of experience and thousands of animals to have learned from.
And unfortunately, your inexperience shows in how often you anthropomorphize. Snakes are very good at hiding stress and illness. So you may have mistaken signs of stress for signs of affection. You may simply not know what you're looking for. And that's ok because you only have one animal, so what you see may appear "normal", while we may have recognized it as stress.

Sometimes all they need is to be left alone...to be a snake. Even you constantly hovering over the enclosure with a camera and fixing his hide and moving him into his hide...all equal stress.

I'm just being honest here...it may be time to realize that snakes are not social animals and will not thrive when being treated as one. You clearly want more interaction with your pet than your pet is equipped to provide. It might be time to give Crowley a break and let him be a snake.

Wait a min... I need to think about this one...

I've had snakes that have a huge issue with the carpet your using in its enclosure. Also, the bird... I know you say its been there for some time but your snake could be stressed over it and it just cant take it anymore. Its probably a really good sweet snake when your handling it and may not show signs of being stressed but it really is. For the sake of discussion just try moving it out of the room. yes, it does look like its having seizure. Those can be caused from prolonged stress especially if they just started happening with in the last couple months. Did i see a snake bed under the hide as well. I've never seen that either maybe take that out as well.

Take out whatever that brown thing inside his hide is and don't put it back in. If that doesn't help get one of those smaller cave hides you have in the warm end and take the plastic hide out. In both videos he is moving about perfectly until he goes into that hide.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Take out whatever that brown thing inside his hide is and don't put it back in. If that doesn't help get one of those smaller cave hides you have in the warm end and take the plastic hide out. In both videos he is moving about perfectly until he goes into that hide.

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The above. I had to watch the vid many times slow to figure what the heck it was. It looks like a dog bed for a chihuahua. Crowley goes into the dark an something furry bigger then him is in there, fight or flight. An the bird, cover that end of the cage at the minimum. The carpet gives off gas stop using it. Paper towels work fine.

You keep stating his room. Do you use two cages for him? If so please stop, as soon as Crowley gets settled in it's change 1,001. Again, the bird is not helping.

Now, what does Crowley weigh an any other snakes in the house? How cold is it in Canada now?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Could be lingering fear...who knows??? It's just one possibility, & trying keeping him in "his own room" may give you a better answer than we can.

Did you say he hasn't been eating now too? Since when was his last meal taken? (probably means nothing...winter's coming & he's a BP...it's what they do, but still?)

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He hasn't eaten since July 17th, I think this was due to me getting an AC unit and it got cold the one day so I assumed he started his winter fast early. He's been in his room since about 2:30pm, went in his hide and slept. I was checking often and when I checked on him at 5pm he had spazzed that hide around (not the plastic one with the bed) It's a brown one with no bed in it. I had to go do groceries and I'm now back and his hide is in the middle of his enclosure instead of the side and his head and tail are sticking out by like 6 inches each. He seems to be resting like that at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

OP, you clearly care very deeply for your snake, and I appreciate and respect that.

However, your methods are extremely unconventional and your experience is limited to a few years with one animal.

Maybe it's time to try keeping him in the more "standard" way that's advised by experienced keepers.

Snakes are not social animals. And I don't mean this as an insult, but you anthropomorphise with the best of them. You love your snake, that's obvious. But I think you often forget the most important thing...he's a snake.

Snakes don't look forward to time outside the enclosure the way you feel Crowley does. They aren't animals that enjoy roaming and cruising all day...that's why BPs aren't photographed and observed just cruising around in nature. They are secretive, solitary and nocturnal.
Your routine of having him out for hours all day is not allowing him to just...be a snake.

And the bird, I'm sorry but that can't possibly be helping the situation. Snakes and other pets don't mix, period. Especially when one is a perfect predator to the other.

So what I'm getting at is, there's a reason us experienced keepers keep our animals the way we do and advise others to do so. It works.

We have years of experience and thousands of animals to have learned from.
And unfortunately, your inexperience shows in how often you anthropomorphize. Snakes are very good at hiding stress and illness. So you may have mistaken signs of stress for signs of affection. You may simply not know what you're looking for. And that's ok because you only have one animal, so what you see may appear "normal", while we may have recognized it as stress.

Sometimes all they need is to be left alone...to be a snake. Even you constantly hovering over the enclosure with a camera and fixing his hide and moving him into his hide...all equal stress.

I'm just being honest here...it may be time to realize that snakes are not social animals and will not thrive when being treated as one. You clearly want more interaction with your pet than your pet is equipped to provide. It might be time to give Crowley a break and let him be a snake.

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It may be my inexperience but I only mostly just take Crowley out when he wants to, I even let him come out himself and put him in his room where he has places to hide and places to explore, he explores then hides, once he has some time in his hide I bring him to the couch to watch a show, most of the time when I put him back he is riding the glass of the enclosure like he wants back out whereas he's nice and calm in his room or on the couch with me. The carpet I know isn't the best method but it's what I've always used and it's worked till this occurrence today.

I've tried leaving him alone today and when I saw him struggle of course I tried to help, the camera was to show what he was doing to help diagnose what's happening with him, I tried not to hover too much. As for the bird, I wasn't expecting to get him for many years but my mother could no longer care for him and I took him in. Having Crowley and the parrot together was something I wasn't sure was going to work but I wanted to try it before I just shoved Crowley in a room. Like I've mentioned I will move Crowley to his room is he continues the spazzing tomorrow or if it was just a today thing.

I appreciate hearing your opinion about this as I do feel like a mommy to my snake and I could be anthropomorphizing it without realizing because of the love I have for him. I just have never seen signs of stress in my experience, it always seemed like Crowley was happy with how I was taking care of him and he eats regularly when he isn't doing his winter fast.

As for the other recent replies, the brown thing in the hide is a bed, he won't go in the hide without the bed as the entrance is too big and he doesn't like it. I can try switching to the brown hide I have, to see if that helps but he has spazzed in both of them. For tomorrow I have a plexi glass in front of Crowley's enclosure that I will block his vision from the bird with some towels on it.

So my plans are, put him back in his enclosure with everything the same except for the hidden vision to the bird tonight. If he spazzes I will move him as soon as possible to his room. If the spazzing continues, I can switch hides around, if that doesn't work I will go to the vet on the weekend as my parents are going that way anyway so I'd get a ride from them (I don't trust my vehicle to make it that far, it's near the end of its life).

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Originally Posted by 303_enfield

The above. I had to watch the vid many times slow to figure what the heck it was. It looks like a dog bed for a chihuahua. Crowley goes into the dark an something furry bigger then him is in there, fight or flight. An the bird, cover that end of the cage at the minimum. The carpet gives off gas stop using it. Paper towels work fine.

You keep stating his room. Do you use two cages for him? If so please stop, as soon as Crowley gets settled in it's change 1,001. Again, the bird is not helping.

Now, what does Crowley weigh an any other snakes in the house? How cold is it in Canada now?

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He has 2 enclosures, his main one and one in his room. He always sleeps in the main one and rests in the one in the room after he does his roam around. I got him to sleep in the one in his room today as he was spazzing in the main one. Crowley is 6 years old, he's 4'4" long and weighs 4.6 lbs (2087 grams). It gets to 40-60 degrees outside during the day and usually drops to around 20 at night. The house always stays at about 76 degrees. There are no other snakes or reptiles in the house, the only other pet is the parrot.

I’m sorry but I have to be honest. Your doing everything wrong, everything! Plz for the sake of your snake u listen to us

So u let him have two tanks, and u let him run around in his room? He hasn’t eaten since July and now he is doing this... it’s time to start listening to us and change everything your doing. He isn’t happy.

Do u have pics of this room u let him run around in?

and I promise u as much as u want to think he loves being with you it’s not true. I hate it because I’d love to think mine are happy with me but they would rather me never pick them up in the first place

I talked it over with my husband and realized why and how it can be the bird. They've met quite a few times when Crowley would get up early, Jacob (the parrot) would always talk to him (from a distance or behind glass from the enclosure). Jacob was always happy and didn't look hostile at all... Till very recently, when Crowley gets up early, I get Jacob and sit with him while my husband gets Crowley to his room so we can keep them apart. Well recently Jacob has become jealous of Crowley (he wants all the attention to himself at all times) so he's been lunging at Crowley, they were very far apart but I guess Crowley must be scared of Jacob since then.

Even if he isn't scared of Jacob I feel as though it's best to move Crowley away from him. Thank you all for your advice. I will be moving Crowley's enclosure as soon as I can, probably tomorrow.

Ok... I remember (sort of) who Crowley is and your bond with him... And I had been reading the posts here as well as watched the vid...

Having your parrot so close to the snake enclosure... In a glass tank where he already can feel exposed from all sides... And some fur item as a 'bed' (I know of dog and cat beds... Even bunny beds. But snakes using a bed?)... If you are going to see him with human qualities, you should also sympathize him what you are putting him through. Love has nothing to do with it, even if he can love as a snake. He is stressed out and you are not helping him.

Crowley may be that special snake, but he is a snake first before anything else you hope or imagine him to be. His needs as a ball python comes first... One being feeling secure. Your snake is fine until he enter a his hide. Animals retreat to a hide for security and shelter. Instead of feeling that way, he 'spazzes' and appears conflicted: wanting to hide and be secure vs not being able to relax to do so being where he is. Do you not see that?

When I train dogs, one mantra has always true for most trainers: let dogs be dogs first and foremost. You can dress them up, cuddle them and baby talk them to no end. But for them to be trained and behave properly, you have to treat them like dogs.... Because no amount of baby talk will teach a dog not to jump on someone, or to listen to you when he runs off chasing a squirrel. What they are will always trump what you think they are.

Part of being its guardian means learning how to be humble. You can wrong, and I have found some really bad, outdated and incorrect husbandry info from supposedly decades long experienced breeders(not naming names) out there... So learning how to be humble and consider what the others are saying on this thread, will ultimately make you a better guardian for Crowley and a happier Crowley.

Said it perfect

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

Ok... I remember (sort of) who Crowley is and your bond with him... And I had been reading the posts here as well as watched the vid...

Having your parrot so close to the snake enclosure... In a glass tank where he already can feel exposed from all sides... And some fur item as a 'bed' (I know of dog and cat beds... Even bunny beds. But snakes using a bed?)... If you are going to see him with human qualities, you should also sympathize him what you are putting him through. Love has nothing to do with it, even if he can love as a snake. He is stressed out and you are not helping him.

Crowley may be that special snake, but he is a snake first before anything else you hope or imagine him to be. His needs as a ball python comes first... One being feeling secure. Your snake is fine until he enter a his hide. Animals retreat to a hide for security and shelter. Instead of feeling that way, he 'spazzes' and appears conflicted: wanting to hide and be secure vs not being able to relax to do so being where he is. Do you not see that?

When I train dogs, one mantra has always true for most trainers: let dogs be dogs first and foremost. You can dress them up, cuddle them and baby talk them to no end. But for them to be trained and behave properly, you have to treat them like dogs.... Because no amount of baby talk will teach a dog not to jump on someone, or to listen to you when he runs off chasing a squirrel. What they are will always trump what you think they are.

Part of being its guardian means learning how to be humble. You can wrong, and I have found some really bad, outdated and incorrect husbandry info from supposedly decades long experienced breeders(not naming names) out there... So learning how to be humble and consider what the others are saying on this thread, will ultimately make you a better guardian for Crowley and a happier Crowley.

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There has been so many good points made, I think many people just want what’s best for the whole situation. I’m in agreement with a possible overheat. But knowing how he is kept and the chances he could of easily came across something else harmful is hard to ignore. I keep all my snakes in tanks in my living room, at first I thought he was being a typical horny male. But after reading this and other previous posts, I’d recommend a vet trip. And definitely more conventional snake husbandry. Peace, hope it all works out.

He needs to be in one tank only that’s properly set up and away from the bird. I wouldn’t handle him until he eats. I think he has been so stressed out the past several months that is if don’t fix it soon u might see his health deteriorate the longer he is in this position.

I had put Crowley back in his main enclosure at 9pm when he was done resting in his hide in his room. The bird goes to bed in a separate cage upstairs at 7pm. I went to bed at 10:30pm and Crowley seemed to be doing okay, he had gone in his hide with the bed in it with his neck and tail out. I got up at 2am to check on him and saw him in his bed with the hide sitting horizontally and angled, looking all confused. Poor thing, I necked him, fixed the hide and put him back in. I have been glancing over once in a while, he tried going in the hide and spazzed it off again at 2:20am so I put the 2 brown hides in place of the black plastic ones with the beds. I am currently waiting to see if he goes to sleep in one of those.

If that doesn't work I will put him in his room to see if he can get some sleep there. This is only a temporary solution as I will be moving his enclosure to his room later today as soon as possible, I need 2 guys to lift it as I am just a woman with a currently messed up back. I will probably have to wait till after 4pm to move him when both my husband and my dad are done work as they are probably going to be the ones moving the tank, it's very huge and very heavy. I am currently taking measurements and moving things around in his room to fit his enclosure while I wait to see if he can get some sleep in the brown hide.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I had put Crowley back in his main enclosure at 9pm when he was done resting in his hide in his room. The bird goes to bed in a separate cage upstairs at 7pm. I went to bed at 10:30pm and Crowley seemed to be doing okay, he had gone in his hide with the bed in it with his neck and tail out. I got up at 2am to check on him and saw him in his bed with the hide sitting horizontally and angled, looking all confused. Poor thing, I necked him, fixed the hide and put him back in. I have been glancing over once in a while, he tried going in the hide and spazzed it off again at 2:20am so I put the 2 brown hides in place of the black plastic ones with the beds. I am currently waiting to see if he goes to sleep in one of those.

If that doesn't work I will put him in his room to see if he can get some sleep there. This is only a temporary solution as I will be moving his enclosure to his room later today as soon as possible, I need 2 guys to lift it as I am just a woman with a currently messed up back. I will probably have to wait till after 4pm to move him when both my husband and my dad are done work as they are probably going to be the ones moving the tank, it's very huge and very heavy. I am currently taking measurements and moving things around in his room to fit his enclosure while I wait to see if he can get some sleep in the brown hide.

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:confuzd: Stop moving him from tank to tank... I'm not responding anymore, sorry.
Well... Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

:confuzd: Stop moving him from tank to tank... I'm not responding anymore, sorry.
Well... Good luck.

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He wasn't using his hide and just roaming around lost on his enclosure. I moved him to his room at around 4am and within 30 mins he was happily in his hide (the same one he wouldn't go in, in the main tank) and is now getting some sleep. This is just temporary and I'm doing the best I can to get my poor little guy to be able to sleep. His main enclosure will be in his room by 6pm tonight and I will never have to tank swap him again.

I think this the point someone should close this thread down, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make drink (think). They are going to do whatever they want, regardless of the advice given. I read their threads before and could not believe what I was reading, and the fact this is a public form can help others think this might be an “okay way to keeping”. I’m super surprised the animal has gone this long without more problems. It’s a snake, and wishing and dreaming different isn’t going to make so. Best of luck, personally I believe with the snake, yours is running out.

I do have some major concerns after going back and reading through previous threads as well as some of the language used in the OPs responses.

"If it happens again, I will do what you say..." You came to us for advice. We are giving it to you. You aren't taking it - you're doing what you want, and continuously bugging the crap out of this poor snake that most likely is simply looking for a safe, secure place to be left alone for awhile. I think it's a HUGE correlation that you adopted the parrot in late April and Crowley went off feed a month and a half later. I'm not entirely convinced that the adopted bird didn't bring something in with him - birds carry all kinds of bugs, and if Crowley has been kept in close quarters with him, there's no telling. I'm also not entirely convinced that all the moving around hasn't exposed him to some sort of chemical - snakes absorb things differently than humans. They're tough, yes, but they can also get into spaces that we can't, and become exposed to things we can't. The temperature fluctuations from said moves are also very concerning - if you fall asleep when he's on a "mission" how do you know what he's gotten into, or what temps he was exposed to? NOTE: what happened to the second baby ball python you adopted? Did you quarantine?

Snakes do not feel affection. They feel fear, hunger, thirst, heat, and cold. Their little reptile brains are not big enough to compute a complex emotion such as we humans define it. They need food and water, they need proper places to feel safe, and they need proper temps. If one of these is not being met, or they get sick, you will see what you are seeing.

THIS. SNAKE. NEEDS. A. VET. Not excuses for why the vet is 3.5 hours away, not moving around to fifteen different places, not poking and prodding and holding him down, or you crying over him. He needs a doctor just like you would if you were acting/feeling out of sorts.

After that, you need to seriously listen to folks that have been keeping snakes for far longer than you have, and start treating Crowley like what he is: a ball python. An insecure, young ball python, who's instincts tell him to find a hole and stay there until a rat happens to run by. He needs security, he needs to be left alone. Return to the very barest basics, and see if you can get him to eat. That's step 2, AFTER he's gone to the vet and gotten a diagnosis.

I know I'm being harsh. I typically stay pretty quiet... I like to let people learn things on their own. You obviously care about this snake, and we all here on the forums care about him too. We are trying to help, and we are begging you to listen.

I don't see why people are saying I don't listen, I am taking the first step and putting his enclosure in his room away from the bird today. I am just trying to do what's best for Crowley and so far he's been doing much better since yesterday, I am letting him sleep in his room today as he is completely restless in his main enclosure right now. I've been leaving him be as much as I can to let him rest while still keeping an eye on him. I don't want to change everything I do all at once as that can stress him out just as bad. I will keep the enclosure the way it is and see if he does better in the room, if not I take the advice given and change things like his hides or bedding if that's even the issue. I don't want to cause any arguments so I will leave it at that for now. I will update on how he's doing once he's settled into his new location.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I don't see why people are saying I don't listen, I am taking the first step and putting his enclosure in his room away from the bird today. I am just trying to do what's best for Crowley and so far he's been doing much better since yesterday, I am letting him sleep in his room today as he is completely restless in his main enclosure right now. I've been leaving him be as much as I can to let him rest while still keeping an eye on him. I don't want to change everything I do all at once as that can stress him out just as bad. I will keep the enclosure the way it is and see if he does better in the room, if not I take the advice given and change things like his hides or bedding if that's even the issue. I don't want to cause any arguments so I will leave it at that for now. I will update on how he's doing once he's settled into his new location.

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Do us all a favor and don’t update us. You are either pranking us, trolling us.......or I don’t want to get my first infraction. Nough said. Don’t need to hear the bird killed the snake, got enough stupid stuff in this world. I keep rereading, then remember why I stopped coming here. And you have two snakes? Poor guys. So if you’ll excuse me, I gonna leash up my 4 boys and taking them for their daily stroll to 7-11. It’s only 40degrees outside but they love the fresh air and the slithering down the sidewalk. Peace, I going to turn on my PS4, don’t worry I got enough controllers for all 4 snakes.

I'm having the hardest time visualizing your enclosures/arrangements. I know one cage you say is in his room, and one is elsewhere? Just to ease confusion could you show pictures of both enclosures and his "room"? Just so we are all on the same page here.

Also when you say you're letting him sleep in his room, do you mean in the actual room itself free roaming or inside the enclosure in the room?

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

don’t worry I got enough controllers for all 4 snakes.

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:rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

I'm having the hardest time visualizing your enclosures/arrangements. I know one cage you say is in his room, and one is elsewhere? Just to ease confusion could you show pictures of both enclosures and his "room"? Just so we are all on the same page here.

Also when you say you're letting him sleep in his room, do you mean in the actual room itself free roaming or inside the enclosure in the room?

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Same for me. When you say "room," do you actually mean an entire room roaming around? Calling it his room just leads me to believe that you're anthropomorphizing pretty badly here. And you say he has no problem with the bird and such but that he hasn't eaten since July? You don't see a contradiction there?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I will keep the enclosure the way it is and see if he does better in the room, if not I take the advice given and change things like his hides or bedding if that's even the issue.

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This is why we say you're not listening.

Good luck to you and Crowley.

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Originally Posted by wnateg

...but that he hasn't eaten since July?...

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She did acknowledge earlier that it got too chilly from A/C that was running...that may have sent a "fast" signal to the snake. It's a mistake that many people make in the summer...they adjust the A/C for human comfort & forget that the snakes perceive it as fall/winter coming on.

I do think that she worries far too much about how the snake positions himself, for example. If a snake is comfortable (ie. not worried about) having his tail sticking out of his hide while he rests, I would NEVER interfere with it...

:snake: Valyndris, when you touch a snake's tail (or lower body) is does stress them- that's what predators grab. If he wants to lay half in & half out of a hide, please do NOT try to re-position him the way you think he should lay. I agree that is too much interference. OK?

And I do agree that Crowley is likely to feel much safer if he has only ONE home cage that he knows & feels secure in...and where you don't re-position him. ;)
(FYI, all of my snakes have dedicated plastic 'critter cottage' cage for temporary use while cleaning, transport or for programs, but they are NOT for anything long term.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I don't see why people are saying I don't listen, I am taking the first step and putting his enclosure in his room away from the bird today. I am just trying to do what's best for Crowley and so far he's been doing much better since yesterday, I am letting him sleep in his room today as he is completely restless in his main enclosure right now. I've been leaving him be as much as I can to let him rest while still keeping an eye on him. I don't want to change everything I do all at once as that can stress him out just as bad. I will keep the enclosure the way it is and see if he does better in the room, if not I take the advice given and change things like his hides or bedding if that's even the issue. I don't want to cause any arguments so I will leave it at that for now. I will update on how he's doing once he's settled into his new location.

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We're saying you don't listen...because you don't. You keep moving the poor snake all over the place. JUST LET HIM BE!!!!
He's a snake, not a child who needs your constant supervision and interference. Just because his hide is crooked is no reason to bother him.

For the sake of your snake, PLEASE understand he's a SNAKE.

What may have been working til now clearly is NOT WORKING and if you truly want the best for your snake you need to understand he's a snake!!!

Do a little research on snakes and how EXPERIENCED, SUCCESSFUL keepers keep them. You'll find none of us keep them the way you keep Crowley. Why??? Because it doesn't work!!

You can't possibly know your snake loves his bed, I'm pretty sure he's the world's only snake with a bed. You can't tell me you honestly believe he's telling you he wants out all the time....unless his husbandry is wrong and he's trying to escape. He's NOT cruising cause he wants to hang out with you.

Until you have a basic understanding of snakes for what they are you're going to continue to anthropomorphize and treat your snake like something he's not. He needs to be treated like...you guessed it...a SNAKE!!!

Until you accept that he's a snake who has no emotional feelings towards you your snake will continue to suffer.

You claim to love Crowley so much. Now show it by caring for him properly.