GHI pastel?

[URL="https://ball-pythons.net/gallery//showimage.php?i=59278"]https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...007_190412.jpg[/URL

Is this GHI also pastel? Bought him in a hurry as expo closing and didn't write stuff down. Now trying to id his offspring.

He's definitely more than GHI, they are way more black. I would say pastel is a possibility but I'm not familiar with how pastel GHI looks as an adult, I just know for sure he's not just GHI.

Looks like kind of like a ghost ghi
I have 3 Ghi pastels and they are more yellow .

Kaos Balls

Thanks you two! I think the picture turned out a little brighter than life. I bred him to a dark combo possible het ghost and think I have half ghost babies but am worried might be pastel instead. Should have a better idea on them after another shed or two. I have noticed het ghosts tend to be lighter.

Post pics of the hatchlings, I'd love to see them and they may help with figuring out the ID.

Ok, you asked for it …

Here is an old pic of mom when she was young, one of the first Chocolate Cinnamon Mojave

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...amonmojave.jpg

I've only hatched two but neither had patternless sides so I'm thinking her kids that are patternless have something else and the only thing I know for sure they could get from Dad is GHI.

Here is daughter #4 which looks the most like the GHI dad. I do think she might have chocolate based on the width of the black but I'm really not that familiar with GHI

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/2019c2f4.jpg

Female #3 I think is GHI Mojave and maybe hypo based on head. I also wonder if her axanthic look is due to a cinnamon and hypo combo

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/2019c2f3.jpg

Female #2 has even less side pattern but more yellow. Again, got to be GHI and Mojave, right? Maybe chocolate with the light bar at the back of the head I often see in my Garcia line.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/2019c2f2.jpg

Could female #1 be chocolate cinnamon ghi Mojave ghost? She also has the axanthic look which I'm thinking is from cinnamon + hypo.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/2019c2f1.jpg

Here are the boys.

Male #2 I'm thinking cinnamon chocolate based on the rich brown color and the fading to white in the dark areas on the lower sides but could cinnamon Mojave do the same? The abnormal light on the head might be more of a chocolate thing.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/2019c2m2.jpg

I'd love for male #1 to have everything as I want to keep him as a breeder but wondering if he is missing something female #1 has:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/2019c2m1.jpg

I really want him to have GHI so as to upgrade his dad but not sure he is dark enough (but why way less pattern than mom if not also GHI?) and of course hypo/ghost would be very nice but might have to wait another shed or more to be sure on that.

You're right, now I'm confused lol. At least they are all beautiful! The problem is you have quite a few genes in the mix that react similar with ghi. I believe all are ghi but the obvious cinnamon male. None of them look like pastel to me except possibly female 4 but shes still not quite right.
I'm wondering if the gene is fire? It looks like a few could be fire. I honestly don't see ghost in any of them but I don't work with ghost so I'm definitely no expert on it. The only other helpful info that I can give you is that the cinnamon ghi that I produced looks almost exactly like female number two and that's what mine is for sure because that's all that was in the mix.

Beautiful clutch either way, good luck figuring them out.

Thanks rufretic. I hadn't considered fire. I'd much rather it be hypo but if they don't look a lot more ghost after the next shed I'll have to admit you are on to something.

I also didn't realize that GHI could do the same really dark shift for other genes like it does for Mojave. I went to worldofballpythons and looked up GHI cinnamon and the two examples there are quite different but certainly puts some of mine in that range. Unfortunately that leaves me less sure as I thought all the dark ones where Mojave GHI but I guess could be GHI Cinnamon or maybe even GHI something else.

In addition to wanting to weed Pastel and I guess fire out of my dark snake projects I don't want cinnamon on both sides for fear of producing kinked super cinnamons. So now I'm leaning towards keeping female #4 as I'm also not sure I want to produce super Mojave (although a super Mojave super GHI male could be a nice breeder). But if she is fire maybe I should just buy or trade for an unrelated chocolate ghi ghost female.

No problem, I try to help if I can. The ghi cinnys came out quite different than I was expecting for the same reason, wobp has 2 completely different examples but I'll post a pic of mine and you'll see what I'm talking about. My pairing was super cinny x ghi, so that's what they are 100%. 1 got 5 and they are all pretty similar other than some that had more or less side pattern, they are also 50% het DG so that could play a factor.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5800419aea.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...eb9705e9a9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cfaccea219.jpg

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

And this is why I don't think they are ghost, ghost makes them way more faded out. This pic is from wobp of a ghi Mojave ghost, not of yours are even close imo.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5f50dbbc84.jpg

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

Thanks again rufretic. Those are some nice looking cinnamon ghi and very helpful. Comparing them with the ghi Mojave on wobp I'm thinking I'm seeing some patterns regarding the side patterns. When you look at your cinnamon ghi from the side would you say that the light pattern areas tend to have a closed bottom and not open down into the belly? Also, the dark inside the light loops on yours seems to be a pretty uniform smudge expanding to almost take up the entire light side pattern but leaving a distinct light ring around the edges. I'm probably not describing well but not sure I could annotate a picture crop to do any better.

On the ghi Mojave I'm seeing the light side elements tending to be farther apart (wider dark in-between), more likely to open into the belly area, and the dark inside the light side loops is more chaotic.

Based on these I'm thinking both my #2 and #3 are likely both cinnamon ghi although the dark smudges in the light loops on their sides aren't quite as uniform as yours looks to be. I think my #3 also has fire or whatever my light gene is (I still haven't given up completely on hypo as I think all the really nice looking ones are a little older) and #2 is darker due to chocolate added to cinnamon with chocolate also showing in the back of the head bar in #2. At least that's my theory for today.

I think my #1 male and #1 female might be cinnamon ghi Mojave hopefully with chocolate based on the wobp cinnamon ghi Mojave pics. Both of those also seem to have whatever my lightening gene is and of course I'm hoping chocolate based on rich brown color but can't really be sure.

Sorry I didn't see your response.
I do believe most of my side pattern closes before reaching the belly. I also have a bit of variation on how strong the side pattern shows, I think all the ones I posted are ones showing more side pattern, then two of the others have the side pattern noticeably more faded out. I'm not sure if it's anything to do with if they are het DG or not or if it's just standard variation with this combo. One other thing I don't think I've seen mentioned is the color of the dorsal stripe, this is the main difference I noticed between mine and ghi Mojave. Mine are tan with a slight orangey brown tint where as the ghi Mojave I've compared them to have a much more yellow colored dorsal strip. This comparison is at hatchling age and they both fade a bit with age making them a more similar color.

2nd shed didn't make mine look any more ghost like so I've got to give up on the hope I hatched some hypos. Still not sure if the lightening gene some of them do have is fire or pastel. I don't have much of any GHI experience but this one is too bright to be just GHI, right?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...152443_489.jpg

Also, not sure what all genes made it into the two stripy ones. Here is the male post 2nd shed. Such a nice brown surely he has chocolate and cinnamon. Way less side pattern than chocolate cinnamon Mojave mom so thinking GHI is in there but is Mojave too?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...224412_595.jpg