Mr. Bojangles (640x480px)

Yes, this is Mr. Bojangles. Is the snake a male? I have no clue :D "Mrs. Bojangles" still sounds OK, so it can stay if I find out he's a female :p

This is my first snake, other than the countless gardners caught in the wild when I was younger. I'll get some pictures of his tank tomorrow, and perhaps you guys can give me some of your experienced feedback on how he looks and how well his home is set up. I also have several questions with respect to humidity, heat and when I should start feeding him larger prey (he's up to 1 mouse per week now, hopefully 2 per week soon). I'll try to find that info on my own first, because I know how annoying redundant newbie questions can be ;)

http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag.../Snake/bo1.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag.../Snake/bo2.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag.../Snake/bo3.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag.../Snake/bo4.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag.../Snake/bo5.jpg

hey there welcome aboard!


so first off temps and humidity should be measured on both sides of the tank one should be the "hot" side and the other the "cool" side
90-93 farenheit 80-83 farenheit
and the humidity should be at around 40%-50%

its very important that u measure with an accurate tool eg. a digital thermometer not one of those analog daily thingys not too accurate u can pick up the digital thermometer/ hygrometer at ur local walmart inthe home and garden section i believe.

if u need anything else give us a holler!:D

EDIT: unless hes a new born he is looking a little skinny but i cant get an accurate size reading from ur pics.

ps. theres only one proper way to find out the sex of the snake. and that is to get it probed by someone who knows what they're doing

From our most recent feeding on Thursday, 11OCT05 (always live mice):

Mr. Bojangle's an excellent feeder - he has yet to miss a single strike, and he obtains a kill in no less than 60 seconds after striking. I've heard from local friends and people online about how their snakes often miss their strikes, and I'm quite proud to say that so far, Bo's %100!

http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...nake/feed1.jpg

http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...nake/feed2.jpg

Bo's starting to get some very small dry-looking spots down the length of his body; the largest "patch" being no more than 1/4" in size. I'm thinking that this is due to low humidity, and I just poured a full glass of warm water throughout the tank, focusing mainly under his hide. My next purchase is definitely going to be a humidity gauge (maybe a digital humidity/temp combo?) and some sort of humidifier.

In hindsight, humidity has been the only think I've overlooked with respect to Bo's environment :( Lesson learned, and I'm glad that I caught it before it became too severe! His eyes haven't glazed over, so I'm sure this isn't shedding - by the way, how often do royals shed, and is it during certain times of the year?

sweet looking snake. try feeding out of the enclosure though because the substrate can cause impactions in the abdomen if he swallows. i always feed my snakes i a separate rubbermaid which i call the mouth of hell. lol.

Sounds like you need to do a little internet time on BP care because I have no idea why your dumping glasses of water into the cage, all that's going to do is make the cage wet, lead to mold and then a whole new set of problems for you to deel with. I also agree that you shouldn't be feeding in the cage with the bedding your using, that will also lead to problems if swallowed. And feeding Live is just another thing that you should read up on. As for the Digital Therm/Hydro combo, I would go out and pawn off some DVD's if you have to but that is something that should have been baught before you even got the snake, Temps and Humidity levals are the most important care requirement and shouldn't be put off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HockeyFan2kx

Sounds like you need to do a little internet time on BP care because I have no idea why your dumping glasses of water into the cage, all that's going to do is make the cage wet, lead to mold and then a whole new set of problems for you to deel with.

---

As opposed to what, spraying water inside? Do you really think there's much of a difference? Considering how damp the substrate was when it was purchased, and how much it's dried up since then, I don't think a little moisture is going to be as harmful as you insinuate. You seem to think that I've completely flooded the substrate, and that simply isn't the case. In addition, it's a Cypress mulch, which as I'm sure you know, is highly resistant to mold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HockeyFan2kx

I also agree that you shouldn't be feeding in the cage with the bedding your using, that will also lead to problems if swallowed.

---

Noted. I'll look into that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HockeyFan2kx

And feeding Live is just another thing that you should read up on.

---

Why don't you expound on that for me? You seem very knowledgeable in caring for snakes, so I'm sure you can sum it up quite nicely. I don't see how feeding live prey is such an issue, especially when under close observation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HockeyFan2kx

As for the Digital Therm/Hydro combo, I would go out and pawn off some DVD's if you have to but that is something that should have been baught before you even got the snake, Temps and Humidity levals are the most important care requirement and shouldn't be put off.

---

OK, well obviously knowing how much humidity is in the tank is good, but how do you suspect I should raise the humidity when it drops too low? Obviously adding water isn't a good idea, because you've already told me that.

lol..If you think dumping a full glass of water all over the cage is the same as misting then, my friend, you really need to do some home work. BP don't do well in high moist environments anyway so misting them is something that probably isn't a regular thing (if at all) with most owners. If your having problems with your humidity then try using an old butter container with lid and cut a hole in it so the snake can get in it, then place a moist paper towel in it and let the container sit on the hot side so that the moister can evaporate(This is called a humid hide and works great).

What are you using for a cage lid? That is probably your problem, if it's a screen lid or something similar then get rid of it and try and find something solid, but from the looks of your pictures I see your using an aquarium and that would just kill any air flow. You may want to think about switching to a rubbermaid plastic tub and drilling some air flow holes in each corner, you can find huge rubbermaids these days that are even clear so you'll be able to see in. You'll have a much easier time trying to controll the environment inside with a tub then an aquarium. But what ever you do stop dumping water into the cage, BP are not frogs and don't need or want that, your just opening up a can of problems( too many to name them all).

As for feeding Live prey, that's something you can do on your own because there are alot of info on this all over about why this is a bad idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HockeyFan2kx

As for feeding Live prey, that's something you can do on your own because there are alot of info on this all over about why this is a bad idea.

---

And I can also direct you to plenty of info on this site about feeding live and how safe it is and widely used by many breeders and larger snake keepers... Including high end morphs.

Quote:

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyFan2kx
I also agree that you shouldn't be feeding in the cage with the bedding your using, that will also lead to problems if swallowed.


Noted. I'll look into that.

---

Don't worry about it. As long as you routinely take him/her out than there will never be a problem. I think transitioning them from "rubbermaid" to cage is a worse stressor than feeding them in cage. I've never been bit and I feed 8 snakes in their home and others here feed 10x or more that in cage. I am willing to believe that this out of cage feeding causes more problems than in cage feeding.

Quote:

---

What are you using for a cage lid? That is probably your problem, if it's a screen lid or something similar then get rid of it and try and find something solid, but from the looks of your pictures I see your using an aquarium and that would just kill any air flow. You may want to think about switching to a rubbermaid plastic tub and drilling some air flow holes in each corner, you can find huge rubbermaids these days that are even clear so you'll be able to see in. You'll have a much easier time trying to controll the environment inside with a tub then an aquarium.

---

Just put a towel over most of the tank lid or use seran wrap. Tanks are still preferred by some and that is ok, not the best but still ok. You just have to improvise a little.

The glass of water is a little extreme, but if it is REALLY dry in there than should be ok but I would make sure it's not sopping wet and that I stirred the cypress daily.

By the way--Welcome To The Site!!


~Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Don't worry about it. As long as you routinely take him/her out than there will never be a problem. I think transitioning them from "rubbermaid" to cage is a worse stressor than feeding them in cage. I've never been bit and I feed 8 snakes in their home and others here feed 10x or more that in cage. I am willing to believe that this out of cage feeding causes more problems than in cage feeding.

---

I don't like the aesthetics of rubbermaid enclosures. I know I wouldn't want to live in a tub. Even if I were to feed in a seperate enclosure, how long would I have to wait before putting the snake back into his regular home? Certainly moving a snake that's recently fed isn't a good idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Just put a towel over most of the tank lid or use seran wrap. Tanks are still preferred by some and that is ok, not the best but still ok. You just have to improvise a little.

---

I think I'll buy some glass to cover 3/4 of the screen-lid, and I'll keep my eyes open for a lid that's mostly solid. Probably have to have something made custom for this...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim020cricket

The glass of water is a little extreme, but if it is REALLY dry in there than should be ok but I would make sure it's not sopping wet and that I stirred the cypress daily.

---

Again, I must not have been very clear - I didn't flood the tank or any areas of the tank with water, I just poured some water in and stirred it up a bit to make it moist, not soaking. There's already a large water-bowl for the snake to bask in if he needs it. Like I said before, I'm already addressing the humidity issue :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim020cricket

By the way--Welcome To The Site!!

---

Thanks :D

I know you wouldn't like to live in a small dark hole either, but that's where the snakes prefer to be. Tank or tub is mostly your preference, as long as you can keep the temps and humidity in the correct ranges you'll be ok.

Feeding in the cage and/or feeding live are fine. There's no big issue there. Just make sure to supervise the feedings.

Damp bedding is never a good idea. It leads to belly rot, and just isn't advisable. There is a huge difference between dumping a glass of water in the cage and misting the sides of the cage. HUGE!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IamKaervek

I don't like the aesthetics of rubbermaid enclosures. I know I wouldn't want to live in a tub. Even if I were to feed in a seperate enclosure, how long would I have to wait before putting the snake back into his regular home? Certainly moving a snake that's recently fed isn't a good idea.

---

The snake would have a better life in a Tub where the environment is what it should be, unlike an open top cage. Remember we're talking about a snake that spends 95% of their life in a hide box so where they live isn't as important as environment levals..But I guess if you don't like it then that's all that matters.

Quote:

---

I think I'll buy some glass to cover 3/4 of the screen-lid, and I'll keep my eyes open for a lid that's mostly solid. Probably have to have something made custom for this...

---

Humidity is the amount of water vapor in the air, so if you have a hole at the top of your cage (how ever big or small) this will allow all of that humidity/heat and air to escape. What does this mean? This means you are going to have a hard time keeping humidity and heat in that cage, with open top cages the environment in the cage is in most cases the same as in the room it's in

Quote:

---

Again, I must not have been very clear - I didn't flood the tank or any areas of the tank with water, I just poured some water in and stirred it up a bit to make it moist, not soaking. There's already a large water-bowl for the snake to bask in if he needs it. Like I said before, I'm already addressing the humidity issue :)

---

You have no idea how bad it is to add a glass of water to the cage how ever small the amout, you don't have to flood the tank to be in the danger zone, it is not like misting and is such a bad move, you have no idea how bad it is to have that much moister in your cage. Please do your snake a favour and do some research on this because you'll be very surprised at what you find.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tigerlily

I know you wouldn't like to live in a small dark hole either, but that's where the snakes prefer to be. Tank or tub is mostly your preference, as long as you can keep the temps and humidity in the correct ranges you'll be ok.

Feeding in the cage and/or feeding live are fine. There's no big issue there. Just make sure to supervise the feedings.

Damp bedding is never a good idea. It leads to belly rot, and just isn't advisable. There is a huge difference between dumping a glass of water in the cage and misting the sides of the cage. HUGE!!

---

Maybe now he will listen, he seemed to think I was trying to steer him wrong.

Well, looks like I'll be picking up a new enclosure this week. I think I'll set something up like a "shoebox" rack, with enclosures that slide out. I'll start looking for some good ideas now. I've also been wanting to get some geckos and some frogs, so maybe I'll just reserve Bo's current tank for those in the future.

Thanks for all the input, guys!

Quote:

---

he seemed to think I was trying to steer him wrong

---

Oh, no, not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression. I just was a little apprehensive to think that I had been making the wrong decisions. I really appreciate you giving me feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IamKaervek

Well, looks like I'll be picking up a new enclosure this week. I think I'll set something up like a "shoebox" rack, with enclosures that slide out. I'll start looking for some good ideas now. I've also been wanting to get some geckos and some frogs, so maybe I'll just reserve Bo's current tank for those in the future.

---

Unless you plan on holding more the 1 snake, I think a rack system is alittle over kill. Trust me when I say you can fine a great clear tub to use. For 15-20 bucks you could get a clear tud about the same size as a 30g tank and be able to set it up to look very nice.

Quote:

---

if you have a hole at the top of your cage (how ever big or small) this will allow all of that humidity/heat and air to escape. What does this mean? This means you are going to have a hard time keeping humidity and heat in that cage, with open top cages the environment in the cage is in most cases the same as in the room it's in

---

False, you don't cover the whole tub and not let any air flow at all, do you? You need some air flow and fresh oxygen to enter, right? You probably have small holes drilled around the tub, right? Same effect. If I leave my tanks uncovered the humidity will drop drastically, like 30%, but if I cover 3/4 of it the levels increase to the 50-60 range. I prefer racks, but I still use tanks too with no problems. There are many alternatives to any one way of doing something. User and occupant preference is the key. BRB's are really hard to keep in tanks, but balls and rosys are particularly easy to keep in them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim020cricket

False, you don't cover the whole tub and not let any air flow at all, do you? You need some air flow and fresh oxygen to enter, right? You probably have small holes drilled around the tub, right? Same effect. If I leave my tanks uncovered the humidity will drop drastically, like 30%, but if I cover 3/4 of it the levels increase to the 50-60 range. I prefer racks, but I still use tanks too with no problems. There are many alternatives to any one way of doing something. User and occupant preference is the key. BRB's are really hard to keep in tanks, but balls and rosys are particularly easy to keep in them.

---

Not False! Your humidity levals rise to 50-60% when 1/4 of the top is left open because your snake room is at that leval, don't believe me? Check with a hydrometre and the question will be answered. There is no way you can have the top lid open even 1/4 and say the environment won't escape threw that opening.

And yes I use tubs will drilled holes in them.

Quote:

---

And yes I use tubs will drilled holes in them.

---

Thanks, you just proved my statement. Have a nice day :) . My house is in NY and if our humidity goes above 25% with the heat on--we are lucky :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Thanks, you just proved my statement. Have a nice day :) . My house is in NY and if our humidity goes above 25% with the heat on--we are lucky :P

---

Proved what point? You've lost me

Quote:

---

Proved what point? You've lost me

---

Nevermind... ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Nevermind... ;)

---

So you don't even know what the point was?

What's the problem man? You seem to have a problem with everyone's posts, and here you are, a brand new member struttin around king of the BP world. Why all the animosity?

Hey let's all play nice. Please remember this is a place to exchange ideas and try to come away with a better understanding of herps.

Yes, you need to have some part of a tank not covered. Stagnant air is very bad. I've had tanks and I had to constantly adjust how much of the screen was covered to keep the humidity in the 50-60% range. Shoot I have to put fans on, to make sure the humidity in the rack doesn't get too high, since there is little air movement in there.

Your calling someone a new memeber when your 3months wet behind the ears. Nice post

Ahem...

If we can't all get along, I don't mind sending people to their respective corners. :rolleyes:

I can get along. I make love not war. I just don't think it's nice for someone claiming I have hostility in my post and trying to belittle me for being a new member when they are in fact a new member as well.

Well, I went and picked up a new tub for Bo. I think this should suffice (beer added for size-reference):
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...e/bo_tank1.jpg

I've got 3 bricks of coconut husk in there, and it's drying out under the heater and a heat lamp. It's pretty easy to over-estimate just how much water you need to get that stuff plyable! He's in his aquarium for the night, and just got done scarfing down some dinner (that's mouse #3, for those of us who aren't counting). He struck immediately after seeing this one, which I think means he was quite ready to eat again. I'll wait another 5 days before I try again. The last time he was fed was almost 5 days ago.

Anyway, I think this new tub will be just fine. I'll have to cut a hole on either side, and zip-tie some screen to the top. I imagine one side would be for the day-lamp, and the other for the night-lamp? Any suggestions on how to configure the lighting on this beast? I'm also going to give him a humid-hide on the "day side" of the tank - is this something I should only do during shedding, or at all times? Also, is the heat-pad I have stuck to the bottom of his aquarium safe for this tub, or should I rely solely on lights here?

Thanks so much for everyone's help! I'd be quite clueless without it, which as we all know, is no way to raise a pet!

I myself would skip the whole cutting a hole and adding screen to the top, as that'll just cause the humidity to be hard to keep. Same with the heat lamps. Heat lamps will just dry the enclosure out and will make humidity a task to keep up. Best way to heat a snake's enclosure would be belly heat, IMO. Get some flexwatt heat tape or a heat pad(and a thermostat to regulate the under tank heater), and pop it under the cage, and you should be good to go. As for air flow in the tub, just take a drill or soldering iron(if using a drill, be careful as the tub could crack easily with it) and put a bunch of holes on the sides. I use 3 foot by 2 foot underbed storage tubs for my snakes and I have 20 holes on the front side, 20 on the back side, and 4 on each short side, totalling 48 holes in the tub. You might find that more holes or less holes will work for you.

Also, that looks like a pretty large tub for the size of snake you have. I'd recommend filling up a lot of that space with decorations and hides to provide cover and make him/her feel secure in the new environment. :) (and yes I know the way the tub is in that pic is the unfurnished cage...just saying when you decorate it...yeah :))

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cody

Also, that looks like a pretty large tub for the size of snake you have. I'd recommend filling up a lot of that space with decorations and hides to provide cover and make him/her feel secure in the new environment. :) (and yes I know the way the tub is in that pic is the unfurnished cage...just saying when you decorate it...yeah :))

---

Haha! Yeah, I'm definitely going to have plenty of hides (3 for now) and foliage/climbing structures for him :)

As far as the holes - what sizes do you recommend? 1/4"? And I'm assuming that when you say you have 20 on either long-side, that these are along the top of the tank from end-to-end?

I have the exact same tub set up for my incoming boa, Ruari(except the lid is clear). I do have another one of those tubs in the garage, and the lid is green. I think the red is very festive :) . I will try to get pictures for you of the heating arrangements.

On one side, I have two 2ft sections of flexwatt attached to a JC Controls T-stat set to 94, and on the other side I have a ceramic lamp containing a 60w CHE. I cut a square(about 12"x12") out of the lid using my soldering iron(NOT fun... took forever and a day).

I then cut a square of rubber/vinyl/whatchamacallit green stuff-coated hardware cloth(1/2" squares) and cut it so the mesh was 1.5"-2" bigger than the hole in the lid, all the way around(pictures will better explain). I then used the heavy duty, black zip ties to secure the mesh to the lid. The soldering iron works well to make the holes big enough for the zip ties to go through. Again, pictures work better to show how I did this.

You can get a ceramic based lamp from WalMart for $7-something. They work quite well and the dome is large enough to accomodate a CHE. Matt(justcage) has 60w CHE's for $20. That way you can use just the light from a window or a fluorescent tube set on top to light the enclosure.

I'll take pics, I promise!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IamKaervek

Haha! Yeah, I'm definitely going to have plenty of hides (3 for now) and foliage/climbing structures for him :)

As far as the holes - what sizes do you recommend? 1/4"? And I'm assuming that when you say you have 20 on either long-side, that these are along the top of the tank from end-to-end?

---

Not sure on the size in inches, lol. I just used a soldering iron, so whatever size that made. I do know that the holes are big enough to put a pen through, if that helps. :) And I put the holes in a pattern kinda thing. On the warm side there's 10 holes that are up near the top of the tub, and on the cool side there's 10 holes near the bottom of the tub. I have it like that for every side of the tank. I was told that doing it this way promotes fresh air flow, so I figured why not? lol

Quote:

---

If we can't all get along, I don't mind sending people to their respective corners.

---

"Ah, come on Adrianne. I was playing nice with Apollo."

Hehe, I gave up on him anyways. Nice set up Kaervek, big--but nice! Now just make sure you add holes as you go so as not to end up with the same problem as before. VE175's at Walmart...I luv it!!! I went and bought four the other day. Never know when those snakes will hit a growth spurt. :)

Here's Bo's new setup:
(exterior)
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...ia/new_tub.jpg

(interior)
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...a/new_tub2.jpg

Here's Bo with the majority of his body sticking out from under his hide, and the deadly part is underneath the hide working its magic on a cute, cuddly-wuddly widdle mouse:
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag.../bojangles.jpg

A nice shot of Bo chowing down:
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...ojangles-2.jpg

Stretching out, getting that mouse down:
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...ojangles-3.jpg

i've heard aspen shavings is the best substrate. is coconut husk equal? or is it more "removing feces and replacement" that makes aspen easier/cheaper and therefore better?

curious,
aleesha

Just another note about the new tub arrangement: I've got a dark bulb setup for night-time light/heat, and the regular heat lamp you see above is setup for the daytime. They're on a timer set for 12-hours of light each. My next steps with the tub are some ventilation holes along the tops of the long sides, some along the top of the "hot" side, and along the middle of the "cool" side. I have a fan setup already about 4 feet from the "hot" side on the floor, and it's blowing air directly across the tub. Humidity is aroung 55 to 65%, with temps on the "hot side" in the high-80's to low-90's. I'm not too certain what the "cool" side's temp is at, but being as there's no direct heat source over there, and the tub is quite long, it's probably too low. I'd rather the cool side be too low than the tub being too cool or too hot overall, but this will be fixed in the near future with another hole on the cool side of the lid identical to the one already on the hot side, and this will be the home for the "night" lamp. Does that sound reasonable, or should I leave the two lamps on the hot side at all times, and get an extra lamp for the cool side during night-hours?

Also, the hot side has a ~24" x ~12" heat pad sitting ontop of two ceramic tiles, and the tub has the rubber spacers for airflow. The heat pad's material is identical to what I imagine flexwatt is, only it costs more and is manufactured with the cords. I needed a quick fix, and I still plan on getting some flexwatt in the future. I'm also going to get a thermostat next payday for the heatpad.

"Make sure you get my good ssssside."

http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...bo_closeup.jpg
http://www.subiminallusion.com/image...bo_closeup.jpg