Back in the Game

So after about a 6 year hiatus...I'm breeding rats again. Feeder prices at Big Cheese and Perfect Prey are going up every week, and neither supplier has had the sizes I need, so I got a little colony together. 4 females and one male. So far, I've bred two of the females and one of them has had her babies. 10 of them! Not bad for a 200 gram first time mom. I'm hoping to get another rack together and make some space for it so I can have 2 litters going at the same time. Atm I only have places for 2 litters at a time, so I'm going to have to stagger them out so just as the rats are culled the new ones are being born.

Last time I bred, I had nothing but normal white rats, this time I wanted to get a bit more interesting stuff. :P But a lot of it is over my head, so if anyone can lend a hand that would be great. XD The breeder told me in person, but I didn't catch everything.

These pictures are a month or two old.

(Male - silvermane)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/qyIewj9.jpg

(Female - marten?)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/J9UaFnv.jpg

(Female - marten?)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Kaijwp4.jpg

(Female - double rex, possible marten? She has pink eyes, too.)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/oKzWwLy.jpg

(Female - my mom seems to think the breeder said she's silvermane, and one of the gray/white females are supposedly possible silvermane)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/u5FGvrD.jpg

I used to breed rats but they've come a long way in a few years, lol...I had hooded rats mostly, agouti, & black w/ white markings, & later a few dumbos, but fancy
types were never my focus. I've always raised fancy mice though, & when I used to sell my surplus, it makes them more salable too, just in case wanted as pets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I used to breed rats but they've come a long way in a few years, lol...I had hooded rats mostly, agouti, & black w/ white markings, & later a few dumbos, but fancy
types were never my focus. I've always raised fancy mice though, & when I used to sell my surplus, it makes them more salable too, just in case wanted as pets.

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Yup that was part of it, too. I’m probably going to add more in time, but for now I’m starting with this at least long enough to build my freezer up before I even think of selling beyond friends.

I had a few mice a couple years ago, and I plan on starting another colony of those, too, for when my boa breeding starts. I had a couple of black/white mice, a gray mouse, and a belted male with one pink and one black eye. Almost all the babies were always black and white, but one ended up a pretty lavender color with pink eyes and another looked kinda like a perle merle rat. Only two unique ones I got from several litters. The mice also ate way more food than rats, and were not as placid. The two adult females and the male were sweet, but the one female and all the babies were always quick to resort to flightiness and biting.


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Rats are much smarter than mice...which is why I am happy I no longer need to raise any for food. I had pet rats long ago, before I ever got into snakes, & they're
trainable & affectionate. Mice are pretty & cute, but have nothing like the personality that rats do, & rats are better parents also. All my mice are fancy...white ones
are rare here, lol. I used to have silky & satin mice but while pretty, they just didn't breed as well. I got into breeding my own feeders shortly after getting my first
snake, as the size feeders I needed were generally not available...plus I know they're healthy & fed well. (they get bits of kale & such things for extra nutrition)

Well both females had their litter last week. The first one, named Calypso (she's the g/w one above with more gray) had 10, and Misery (the g/w one with less gray) had 13!! Not bad at all. They've all since gained their pigmentation, and should be growing fuzz in the next few days. :) I caught both of them mid-birth and was able to watch part of the process, and interact with little stress from the females. Calypso was the nervous one, but not too nervous, and has settled down as her babies have aged.

I'm in the process of getting a new rack built so I can have all 4 females breeding at the same time, and I'm looking to add a hairless male rat to the colony!

You're off & running with a great start. Congrats to you & your little momma-ratties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You're off & running with a great start. Congrats to you & your little momma-ratties.

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I was worried they’d have small litters because everything online said 250-300 grams, but the breeder said 200 grams was fine. Seems they’re doing just fine, and keeping weight on no problem.

I’m thinking I’ll keep 4 rats from these litters back to grow to large adult size, and the rest will be grown as close to half/half small and medium. I’ll be able to keep more back for larges once I have all 4 breeding.

Very excited to have a full freezer again. XD The initial set up cost was about what I’d spend on feeders, but after that, their food and bedding is covered for just about the next year for only ~$60-70. I might have to buy another bag of pellets before then, but that bedding isn’t going anywhere any time soon.


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Nothing better than the feeling you get with a secure & healthy food supply for your snake-family. ;) Rats are good parents too.

Babies!

Calypso's older litter from yesterday. We have 3 hoodeds and one pale hooded here. I have no clue on the rest. lol This pic was taken in the holding bucket, a little messy as I clean the other tubs first.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ur.com/CpKtWPxhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ur.com/CpKtWPxhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/CpKtWPx.jpg

Plus one with a random little white strip.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Gw3dcKw.jpg

Two of the hoodeds, 2 are dark, and one is pale.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/ofP0aph.jpg

Then there's Misery's younger litter. Only 2 hooded in this litter, and a lot more dark babies.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/oemhSrR.jpg

The two hoodeds from her litter. One is dark and one is pale.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/WioErqS.jpg

Cute babies!

I don't think thsoe 3 are technically hooded rats. The way it was explained to me by my mentor, hooded rats have to have the hood and a solid stripe from the hood to the base of the tail without break in the color down its back. Anything that has breaks or lacks the stripe is technically variegated (or possibly DWS I think).

AFRMA describes them that way too:
http://www.afrma.org/ratmkd.htm

To be honest though, I prefer the variegated look over hooded, so what you've got is my preference in pattern between the 2. :)
And the terminology is probably not super important unless you show rats, but I think it's interesting to learn it and wanted to share.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

Cute babies!

I don't think thsoe 3 are technically hooded rats. The way it was explained to me by my mentor, hooded rats have to have the hood and a solid stripe from the hood to the base of the tail without break in the color down its back. Anything that has breaks or lacks the stripe is technically variegated (or possibly DWS I think).

AFRMA describes them that way too:
http://www.afrma.org/ratmkd.htm

To be honest though, I prefer the variegated look over hooded, so what you've got is my preference in pattern between the 2. :)
And the terminology is probably not super important unless you show rats, but I think it's interesting to learn it and wanted to share.

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I only knew of the hooded term so that’s what I used. :) I am very new and have no feedback from the breeder, so I really have no idea what is what. I’m less claiming them as being any certain breed/coat/pattern and more just trying to describe what I see at this point.

There are a total of 5 of the variegated/DWS, 2 in one litter and 3 in another. Perhaps if I have space in the future I may work on some selective breeding. Not necessarily for hoodeds specifically, either.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

I only knew of the hooded term so that’s what I used. :) I am very new and have no feedback from the breeder, so I really have no idea what is what. I’m less claiming them as being any certain breed/coat/pattern and more just trying to describe what I see at this point.

There are a total of 5 of the variegated/DWS, 2 in one litter and 3 in another. Perhaps if I have space in the future I may work on some selective breeding. Not necessarily for hoodeds specifically, either.


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No worries! It's not really a big deal what you call them in most situations, so it's all good.

I'd probably stick to just variegated to describe them since DWS (stands for dominant white spotting) in most lines have megacolon (basically, they don't digest right and the abdomen swells until they're super bloated and die, generally by a few weeks old as they start eating solids) and tends to have much less coloring on the head than yours. Depending who is talking, some people get unnecessarily bent out of shape about DWS. (Sometimes on the same level as people talking about spider BP wobble)

I've got a line where the great great grandparent was a DWS from a line that hadn't even shown megacolon (it's a gene that is commonly linked with the visual trait, so most lines carry the hidden gene that causes the medical issue. Some lines do not, but the only way to know is to breed it and see if any have it) and while nothing popped up in looking like DWS for my mentor, I've gotten a few now, none with megacolon.

Pics for reference sake. A few variegated I bred earlier
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...31c3dae6a1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6eacee3b0f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d715293019.jpg

And one of mine that came out with the DWS appearance (I think there is a lower white version, but I dont know how to ID that one, this is the "classic" appearance)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a5224c6d8f.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

No worries! It's not really a big deal what you call them in most situations, so it's all good.

I'd probably stick to just variegated to describe them since DWS (stands for dominant white spotting) in most lines have megacolon (basically, they don't digest right and the abdomen swells until they're super bloated and die, generally by a few weeks old as they start eating solids) and tends to have much less coloring on the head than yours. Depending who is talking, some people get unnecessarily bent out of shape about DWS. (Sometimes on the same level as people talking about spider BP wobble)

I've got a line where the great great grandparent was a DWS from a line that hadn't even shown megacolon (it's a gene that is commonly linked with the visual trait, so most lines carry the hidden gene that causes the medical issue. Some lines do not, but the only way to know is to breed it and see if any have it) and while nothing popped up in looking like DWS for my mentor, I've gotten a few now, none with megacolon.

Pics for reference sake. A few variegated I bred earlier
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...31c3dae6a1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6eacee3b0f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d715293019.jpg

And one of mine that came out with the DWS appearance (I think there is a lower white version, but I dont know how to ID that one, this is the "classic" appearance)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a5224c6d8f.jpg

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Hopefully as these ones develop I’ll be able to get further help.

Considering the father was silvermane/D’argent, a decent portion of the dark babies should be as well. I read you can’t tell for awhile until they age a bit?

I’m thinking maybe the paler kinda lavender-ish ones are regular martens, if the breeder did tell me they were marten.

It’s really all just guesswork rn. Haha


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Hopefully as these ones develop I’ll be able to get further help.

Considering the father was silvermane/D’argent, a decent portion of the dark babies should be as well. I read you can’t tell for awhile until they age a bit?

I’m thinking maybe the paler kinda lavender-ish ones are regular martens, if the breeder did tell me they were marten.

It’s really all just guesswork rn. Haha


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I usually have fairly dark martens as babies, the usually look like the black self rats at that age, the markings show with the fur and then they lighten with age. Most of my lighter marked ones tend to be blue or mink, or marble if that's one of the parents.

A few of my martens over time:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0fb6046a58.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ad1b35d9cc.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...abdb4db99e.jpg

And a bit older
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1d7cf994cd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a0cfb5eb99.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...027eebbd98.jpg


I'm not very familiar with silvermane since I don't have it, but I think that's how it works as far as lightening goes; that it doesn't start until they're at least a few weeks old. Though I think it can be on any coat color, so you should have it on anything not just dark ones. I'm not sure if it is recessive or not, so depending on that you may get no visuals. (I.e. if recessive and mom is not a carrier) - I think I heard it talked about as recessive, but I really don't know for sure.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

I usually have fairly dark martens as babies, the usually look like the black self rats at that age, the markings show with the fur and then they lighten with age. Most of my lighter marked ones tend to be blue or mink, or marble if that's one of the parents.

A few of my martens over time:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0fb6046a58.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ad1b35d9cc.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...abdb4db99e.jpg

And a bit older
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1d7cf994cd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a0cfb5eb99.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...027eebbd98.jpg


I'm not very familiar with silvermane since I don't have it, but I think that's how it works as far as lightening goes; that it doesn't start until they're at least a few weeks old. Though I think it can be on any coat color, so you should have it on anything not just dark ones. I'm not sure if it is recessive or not, so depending on that you may get no visuals. (I.e. if recessive and mom is not a carrier) - I think I heard it talked about as recessive, but I really don't know for sure.

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I believe silvermane is dominant, at least that’s what this link (https://www.onceuponamischief.com/variety-silvermane) says, but it is unknown.

I believe the breeder said 2 were likely silvermane, so if it’s recessive then I know those are carriers. If they show up in all litters, then I believe it’s safe to assume it is dominant? I’m fairly sure the rex/hairless girl (whichever she happens to be) has no chance of being silvermane.

Do you know much about the hairless and rex varieties? I was initially told by someone that hairless were selectively bred rexes, but some reading and videos seem to imply they’re separate genes? I’m just wondering what sort of results I’d get breeding my rex girl to a hairless male (I haven’t seen him yet and won’t get him until the new rack is built).


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

I believe silvermane is dominant, at least that’s what this link (https://www.onceuponamischief.com/variety-silvermane) says, but it is unknown.

I believe the breeder said 2 were likely silvermane, so if it’s recessive then I know those are carriers. If they show up in all litters, then I believe it’s safe to assume it is dominant? I’m fairly sure the rex/hairless girl (whichever she happens to be) has no chance of being silvermane.

Do you know much about the hairless and rex varieties? I was initially told by someone that hairless were selectively bred rexes, but some reading and videos seem to imply they’re separate genes? I’m just wondering what sort of results I’d get breeding my rex girl to a hairless male (I haven’t seen him yet and won’t get him until the new rack is built).


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Well, don't quote me on silvermane, lol. I definitely don't know. Might be mixing it up with roan which I also don't have, haha.

I have rex and I can 100% confirm that the "hairless is a selective bred rex" is complete garbage. They're entirely separate genes. Rex is a dominant with a visual homozygous form called drex or double rex, it varies in appearance a bit but can appear similar to hairless. Hairless is a recessive gene where homozygous form is reliably lacking most if not all hair.
I don't have hairless, but I think there is a way to tell via whiskers. I'm not too sure though. I have only hit 1 I think is drex and she's still pretty young.

Rex to hairless will give you 50% rex rats, 50% standard, 100% carriers for hairless. Breeding a rex carrier back to the hairless would give you on average 25% rex (carriers for hairless), 25% rex + hairless, 25% hairless, and 25% standard that are carriers for hairless.

It gets messy and hard to differentiate the genes further on (i.e. rex hairless vs just hairless, or drex hairless even), so I'd personally avoid making that pairing unless you have no choice or don't actually care what the turnout is (i.e. 100% feeders for the babies). It could be very difficult down the line to determine which babies have what if you did try to sell/advertise pets or to other breeders searching for specific genetics. (Someone who knows more obvious identifiers for hairless vs rex may not have that issue, but that's a trick I don't have lol)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

Well, don't quote me on silvermane, lol. I definitely don't know. Might be mixing it up with roan which I also don't have, haha.

I have rex and I can 100% confirm that the "hairless is a selective bred rex" is complete garbage. They're entirely separate genes. Rex is a dominant with a visual homozygous form called drex or double rex, it varies in appearance a bit but can appear similar to hairless. Hairless is a recessive gene where homozygous form is reliably lacking most if not all hair.
I don't have hairless, but I think there is a way to tell via whiskers. I'm not too sure though. I have only hit 1 I think is drex and she's still pretty young.

Rex to hairless will give you 50% rex rats, 50% standard, 100% carriers for hairless. Breeding a rex carrier back to the hairless would give you on average 25% rex (carriers for hairless), 25% rex + hairless, 25% hairless, and 25% standard that are carriers for hairless.

It gets messy and hard to differentiate the genes further on (i.e. rex hairless vs just hairless, or drex hairless even), so I'd personally avoid making that pairing unless you have no choice or don't actually care what the turnout is (i.e. 100% feeders for the babies). It could be very difficult down the line to determine which babies have what if you did try to sell/advertise pets or to other breeders searching for specific genetics. (Someone who knows more obvious identifiers for hairless vs rex may not have that issue, but that's a trick I don't have lol)

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Ok thanks. I will probably breed him to the rex just to see the results, with no plans to sell. I’ll save the pet hairless for the other, non-rex girls. For now I’m just building up my freezer so no pet sales yet.


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Well all the babies are up and moving around now. :) Perhaps they're too small/young, but I don't think any of them have any pink eyes. I figured marten was dominant, so why don't I have any pink eyes? Or should I give them time to get bigger? Could the moms not be martens?

Here's the first, older litter. I have a sneaky suspicion 2-3 of them are silvermane, or at least they're starting to silver out a lot. I've read it takes time for their coats to silver, so by the time they're big enough for snake food I should know for sure. I don't have the slightest idea what the whitest one could be.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ur.com/dgUNl2Ehttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ur.com/dgUNl2Ehttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/dgUNl2E.jpg

And a couple pics of the other, younger litter, because I haven't been interacting with them as much (due to work I missed the day they opened their eyes) and they're a bit shy. I don't see any that look to be silvermane here, but I'll give them another week at least.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/oCFPHIU.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/JXj8KPt.jpg

Hi there,

Marten is a recessive gene that is located on the "C-Locus" in rats. It's commonly remarked as c^M in most cases.

Marten is compatible with all other C-Locus genes, these are:

Himalayan (Called Siamese in it's Super Form)
Albino (Traditional Pink Eyed White)
Marten (Silver to grey in it's heterozygous form, and can be pure black in it's Homozygous form)
Tonkinese (Brown rat with a paler belly and eyes that are darker than Pink, but lighter than Ruby in it's Heterozygous form. It's Homozygous form is a dark chocolate rat with eyes that are only slightly lighter than the Ruby you'd get from R-Locus Dilutes (Beige and Fawn colors depending on the A-locus (agouti vs black))

I've got all of the above genes in my collection, but it's not easy for me to post pictures on here from work. I'll try to remember to upload some examples tonight of what I've got in my collection for these genes.

Your litter looks like Blue to me (d-locus or g-locus) - but I'd lean towards d-locus as it looks "Russian Blue" to me, which is what I work with myself.

I will confirm that Silvermane is a Dominant gene with no Homozygous form known. It's easiest to see on a Black rat, and can be hard to pick out on lighter rats. The Silvering can come or go as they age, and can disappear.

There is a recessive gene that is similar that not many work called "Frost" but I've not seen it regularly myself or many people advertising it. I MAY have it in my lines, but it popped out as a recessive coming out during a line/inbreeding setup to reinforce some attributes I liked in the line.

Best,

Paul

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pbenner

Hi there,

Marten is a recessive gene that is located on the "C-Locus" in rats. It's commonly remarked as c^M in most cases.

Marten is compatible with all other C-Locus genes, these are:

Himalayan (Called Siamese in it's Super Form)
Albino (Traditional Pink Eyed White)
Marten (Silver to grey in it's heterozygous form, and can be pure black in it's Homozygous form)
Tonkinese (Brown rat with a paler belly and eyes that are darker than Pink, but lighter than Ruby in it's Heterozygous form. It's Homozygous form is a dark chocolate rat with eyes that are only slightly lighter than the Ruby you'd get from R-Locus Dilutes (Beige and Fawn colors depending on the A-locus (agouti vs black))

I've got all of the above genes in my collection, but it's not easy for me to post pictures on here from work. I'll try to remember to upload some examples tonight of what I've got in my collection for these genes.

Your litter looks like Blue to me (d-locus or g-locus) - but I'd lean towards d-locus as it looks "Russian Blue" to me, which is what I work with myself.

I will confirm that Silvermane is a Dominant gene with no Homozygous form known. It's easiest to see on a Black rat, and can be hard to pick out on lighter rats. The Silvering can come or go as they age, and can disappear.

There is a recessive gene that is similar that not many work called "Frost" but I've not seen it regularly myself or many people advertising it. I MAY have it in my lines, but it popped out as a recessive coming out during a line/inbreeding setup to reinforce some attributes I liked in the line.

Best,

Paul

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Thank you so much! The AFRMA link just said marten was dominant (unknown) and I couldn’t find much else on it so I thought it would be dominant. XD So I assume all the babies would be 100% het marten? Rat/mouse genetics don’t seem as straightforward as snake genetics....

Now, if I were wanting to add individuals or replace my colony with known genetics, what are my best options for doing so? Would an AFRMA certified breeder be willing to sell to me, or mentor me, knowing I’m also breeding for snake food? Or just keep looking on Craigslist for sellers, checking pet stores, etc.?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Thank you so much! The AFRMA link just said marten was dominant (unknown) and I couldn’t find much else on it so I thought it would be dominant. XD So I assume all the babies would be 100% het marten? Rat/mouse genetics don’t seem as straightforward as snake genetics....

Now, if I were wanting to add individuals or replace my colony with known genetics, what are my best options for doing so? Would an AFRMA certified breeder be willing to sell to me, or mentor me, knowing I’m also breeding for snake food? Or just keep looking on Craigslist for sellers, checking pet stores, etc.?


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In Texas, AFRMA is a joke. Most of the serious breeders of rats don't mess with AFRMA and the few rats I've seen from their lines are horrible messes. Low litter count and weird proportions based on what they consider "ideal". Also, a lot of pet breeders don't believe in culling in any form, so snake food breeders are kind of their own group.

There is a group on Facebook called "Feeder Breeder Enthusiasts" that will answer 99% of all your questions without too much issue and with out any judgement. I raise a number of feeders outside of Rats and am expanding, and it's one of my favorite groups. In regards to mentoring you, I've mentored more than one novice rat breeder and am happy to answer any questions I can for you either on here, or on Facebook if you want to find me. Send me a PM and I'll link you my profile.

Color Genetics for Rats are not any more complicated than Snake Genetics, but it's the genetics of Pattern that will get you all wound up. I personally don't like patterns outside of Hooded and Blaze, so I've done my best to cull out anything other than those, but those two genes interact well with Self, Irish, and Berkshire patterns, which are most of my collection.

I'd get onto FBE on Facebook and post that you're looking to get "Founding Stock" for a rattery. Go entirely with known lines and genetics as inbreeding isn't an issue and make sure that whoever you buy from has the genes you want. If you were closer to me I'd help you out. But you can find someone within reasonable distance. It's worth EVERY PENNY to get good, known lines out of the gate to avoid having to breed out things like Maternal Aggression and any temperament issues.

Best,

Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pbenner

In Texas, AFRMA is a joke. Most of the serious breeders of rats don't mess with AFRMA and the few rats I've seen from their lines are horrible messes. Low litter count and weird proportions based on what they consider "ideal". Also, a lot of pet breeders don't believe in culling in any form, so snake food breeders are kind of their own group.

There is a group on Facebook called "Feeder Breeder Enthusiasts" that will answer 99% of all your questions without too much issue and with out any judgement. I raise a number of feeders outside of Rats and am expanding, and it's one of my favorite groups. In regards to mentoring you, I've mentored more than one novice rat breeder and am happy to answer any questions I can for you either on here, or on Facebook if you want to find me. Send me a PM and I'll link you my profile.

Color Genetics for Rats are not any more complicated than Snake Genetics, but it's the genetics of Pattern that will get you all wound up. I personally don't like patterns outside of Hooded and Blaze, so I've done my best to cull out anything other than those, but those two genes interact well with Self, Irish, and Berkshire patterns, which are most of my collection.

I'd get onto FBE on Facebook and post that you're looking to get "Founding Stock" for a rattery. Go entirely with known lines and genetics as inbreeding isn't an issue and make sure that whoever you buy from has the genes you want. If you were closer to me I'd help you out. But you can find someone within reasonable distance. It's worth EVERY PENNY to get good, known lines out of the gate to avoid having to breed out things like Maternal Aggression and any temperament issues.

Best,

Paul

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I thought I was in that group, turns out I’m not! Sent a request. :) The other groups I’m in have almost no activity.

For now, my group works well for feeder breeders, but without knowing their genetics 100% I don’t feel comfortable selling as pets.

I also want to have a whole host of feeders for the snakes (as well as myself). I’m currently in the process of finding a house, and I’m looking for a place with enough space to have rats, mice, rabbits, chickens, pigs, goats, quail, ducks, and anything else I’ll need. Rabbits have been hard to find lately, perhaps the FBE group will be able to help. I’ve only found one breeder, in TN. :/


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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

I thought I was in that group, turns out I’m not! Sent a request. :) The other groups I’m in have almost no activity.

For now, my group works well for feeder breeders, but without knowing their genetics 100% I don’t feel comfortable selling as pets.

I also want to have a whole host of feeders for the snakes (as well as myself). I’m currently in the process of finding a house, and I’m looking for a place with enough space to have rats, mice, rabbits, chickens, pigs, goats, quail, ducks, and anything else I’ll need. Rabbits have been hard to find lately, perhaps the FBE group will be able to help. I’ve only found one breeder, in TN. :/


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Good luck! Once you're in the group and make a post I'm sure you'll find someone. There are lots and lots of members in there.

I've got Rats for the snakes, but am going to get some Mice and ASFs going soon. Outside of the snake stuff, I have Dubias, Hissers, Mealworms, Superworms, and Wax Worms currently. We've also had success in breeding snails, but I think they'll grow too slowly to be decent as a food option for lizards.


I looked again at your pictures. Your girls are Marten for sure, but they're not homozygous martens. They've both got one marten gene, and the other is likely to be Himalayan or Albino, so all your babies will carry one or the other and you won't know which. It's like breeding a Candino to a normal, you've got 50% that are het for Albino and 50% het for Candy, but don't know which are which.

I'm going to have my first Homozygous Martens soon, probably around Christmas time. As it sits right now, I've finally hit pay dirt on my Tonkinese breeding projects.

Best,

Paul

Looks like Calypso's litter has been weaned, and I only found 3 males out of her litter of 10. :O Those males have been moved to their own tub, and Calypso and Misery will be moved back together and the other litter separated when Misery's litter is also weaned. I have put Doc in with the other 2 females, and by the time they're ready to give birth, I should have all the young rats culled off for feeding. Getting that second rack is going to take a bit longer as it's a lot more expensive than the smaller one. :/

I'm hoping they'll do ok over the winter. Last time I bred rats, they were kept outside in a carport. They still had babies except at the absolute coldest temps and could keep themselves warm even in the negatives, but they were in a much larger cage with bedding deeper than these rats' tubs are. If the cold does turn out to be an issue, I do have space heaters to put next to the racks, but the room is too large to heat. Still crossing my fingers we'll be able to start looking for houses again next month.

I just wanted to update with some of my favorite pics/rats. XD Turns out the rats I thought were hooded are indeed mismarked hooded, but I do also have variegated and Berkshire in my lines. I'm still trying to figure out what all I'm working with, and still have quite a few that are stumping me. I've been advised to work on temperament and structure with my rats, so I've got quite a few holdbacks with good temperaments, but I think I'm going to some more testing with them and try to thin out my males a bit more. It's easy when I find males with better temperament, but I don't know much about genetics so it can make choosing who to keep a bit harder.

We've put an offer on yet another house, so maybe we'll be moved before I have to make that decision, and I can finally expand. I'm only working with 2 rat racks, and 4 100 qt tubs (when I get this last tub set up). So not a whole lot of room for breeding. But I want to make a couple of large colony cages for each sex, and keep the racks and tubs just for maternity and grow outs.

Doc, my starter buck. Silvermane Berkshire. I'm probably going to try working on separating my SM into a separate line from my C-locus stuff now that I have so many males. He is one of the most gorgeous SM I've seen, and would like to have more like him.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/NRSdgrA.jpg

Misery, one of my starter girls. Marten dumbo rex. Beyond that, I'm uncertain.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/0syyrTa.jpg

A close up of Calypso's fur, she's another of my starter females. Suspected to be silvermane marten dumbo rex.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/L6w4s6U.jpg

Luna, my recessive hairless. I'm still not sure gene is giving her the red eyes, but I'm going to keep a doe and a buck from her litter. They're extremely flighty, but I'll just have to be careful with them and work on their temperament. But I really want to continue her line as she's the only true hairless I have. Only problem is all of my other rats seem to be rex, so I don't want to mix her hairless with them, meaning I may need more standard coats to further her line if there seems to be issues when I begin linebreeding.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/4yunDZw.jpg

I also received two drex rats (one male and one female) and an albino (also male) from a friend of a coworker who had the 3 in a bird cage outside in the middle of winter. They were very skinny, dirty, and dehydrated when I got them, and had mild RIs. After some TLC and a round of antibiotics they've been doing great since. I never got pics of the albino as he was rather flighty and I never intended on keeping him, but he did father the female drex's second litter. I have also culled the drex male due to aggression issues when he was introduced to one of my groups of males.

The female - she may or may not stay permanently. Agouti hooded drex.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2JKC2Vt.jpg

Male drex. I am thinking his color was black and pattern Berk, but nakeds can be hard to tell, and he was already hairless when I got him. The female threw nothing but agouti hooded when paired to the albino, and she threw both black and agouti with this male. Some hooded, some with what appear to be Berk pattern. In this photo, he had an odd eye issue that was treated before he was introduced to the other males, upon which he was promptly culled.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/rNDBwON.jpg

My oldest holdback male from the first round of litters. I have no idea what he is for sure, but I've been assuming pearl. lol

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/sA809WQ.jpg

A female from one of the more recent litters. I'm thinking marten, but beyond that I'm lost, too. lol

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/6BIjevr.jpg

A holdback male from one of the more recent litters, brother to the female above. Again, no clue what he is. Only feedback I've gotten is someone who called him cinnamon pearl when he was younger, and someone who called him blue now that he's older. He still has that brownish tint, it's just hard to pick up on camera.

Younger pic:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2ULjPlr.jpg

Recent pic:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/zFUbw3v.jpg

I also have an oddeye buck, and a potential lilac blaze male pictured below. All from the same litter as the two above.

Younger pic of the "lilac" male:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/GLfrfZp.jpg

And a recent pic of him:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/xXpHDJt.jpg