The Vaping Epidemic

What the hell is going on? And What are u doing about it?

so E-cigarettes or vaping have around for almost 2 decades now, but have really gained popularity in the last 10 years or so. over that time, there have not been no documented health risk associated w/ vaping that i can recall. now within the past 2 months or something like that, there are 500 suspected cases of acute lung disease and over a half-dozen deaths across 33 states attributed to vaping. what the hell is going on? is this for all vape products (or just the THC ones)? are teens/young adults more at risk? is the black market to blame or does there need to be more government oversight? this has turned into a real epidemic.

i think there has gotta be something going on. something has changed in the manufacturing process or there's gotta be some bad batches of E-juice out there. after so many years, why does this all of a sudden become such a health risk? esp to some of the youngest and newest vapers. it's very scary. i started vaping myself (again) back in March/April. i refill my Smok at least once a day w/ e-juice that has 6 or 3mgs of Nicotine. i was planning to stop (again) and i think i will do that when this glass runs out. what about you? do u vape and what are our thoughts on this epidemic.

I work for a vape company, though I hate vaping.

There's nothing healthy about inhaling stuff into your lungs. But if you ban vape, ban cigarettes too. Cigarettes are much worse than legitimate (non blackmarket) vape.

What's going on is that the big tobacco companies are not enjoying the competition for "their" money. Draw your own conclusions. ;)

(Full disclosure: I'm not now & never have been a smoker of anything. Couldn't pay me to smoke...anything.)

Don’t smoke period is my best advice. If you do, pot is actually the “healthier” option as long as it’s clean. Idk how people really thought that inhaling vapor filled with chemicals was/is harmless... I think that it’s become a trend recently and exploded in popularity thus increasing the amount of users. In turn the amount of reported medical issues increases to a point where it gains media attention. I wouldn’t classify it as an epidemic though because it’s people being stupid and doing it to themselves. It’s by no means a disease of any kind which is what epidemic refers to.


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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

What's going on is that the big tobacco companies are not enjoying the competition for "their" money. Draw your own conclusions. ;)

(Full disclosure: I'm not now & never have been a smoker of anything. Couldn't pay me to smoke...anything.)

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Honestly thats one of my first thoughts too.
Not to sound like I need a tinfoil hat BUT all these years and then out of the blue.......

Not much different than when the big tobacco companies marketed smoking to be "cool" (knowing full-well the harm they were doing for profit)...and now they've
just replaced (marketed) one addiction for another. I agree it's self-inflicted damage...don't come crying to me when your lungs give out.

And if you think the big tobacco companies are just going to sit back & play "nice" while their profits go down...I have a bridge for sale...in Florida.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

What's going on is that the big tobacco companies are not enjoying the competition for "their" money. Draw your own conclusions. ;)

(Full disclosure: I'm not now & never have been a smoker of anything. Couldn't pay me to smoke...anything.)

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Big tobacco owns or bought in real big in these vape company's.

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Originally Posted by Joesmith

Big tobacco owns or bought in real big in these vape company's.

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I know that...but it's not the same as far as their profits (& control) go. At least that's what I've heard & read.

its from Vi5tamin E acetate. which is not even in vape juice. its in THC vape juice

I think a lot of this has to do with deregulation in the vaping corporations, and so many newer companies trying to capitalize off of the vaping craze. (ill name names... juul.) they put so many chemicals into their pods.. not to mention 1 juul pod has more tobacco than an entire pack of cigarettes, and juuls "anti smoking campaigns" for teens/young adults are just pro vaping campaigns and claim its better for you (it poses the exact same risks as smoking.) not to mention the flavors, though nice for legal adults, are 100% contributing to the amount of nicotine addicted teens and children.

another thing to mention, with thc/cdb vaping, getting cartridges off the street is so dangerous because they are more likely to be not just watered down but full of chemicals and sometimes even laced. so if you are in a state where thc is illegal, or too young, buying it off the street is a huge huge risk many may not realize. this is the same with buying juul pods or nicotine vape cartridges off the street when you are underage. its all so dangerous.
((of course vaping is a good way to help quit smoking for people who were already cigarette addicted, but now with all the chemicals being put into it... im not so sure! ))

all in all, i think there should be MUCH more regulation on these.

anyone else have any thoughts?

My husband smokes cigs and vapes. I don't do either, tried both, never liked it. Smoked pot too. I am still open for pot but I would not pay for it. I never feel the need or desire for this type of hobby, I suppose.

My understanding in life is this: everything is out to kill you, either slowly or acutely. The air you breathe is polluted (man made or otherwise), the food you eat probably has cancer agents or bacteria or whatever (unless you grow your own food and cook the meat thoroughly), and the water you drink probably is contaminated with whatever.

If it is not cigs or vapes, it is something else. The clothes we wear are not exactly chemical free either, or the plastics we use, the list goes on. Regulations are a good thing, but with a good lawyer, you can work around that. Sad to say, laws and rules keep people like me in the legal field working so I can't complain. There are jobs involved, such as those in the factories or marketing. And the government clearly knows all this. The rules are there to please the masses. This is all the same in most societies, it is just the poorer you are, the less likely they need to pretend that they care with less rules, bigger loopholes and less enforcement. Think about it, you are trying to tell someone what to do. How well did it go for you the last time you try to warn someone of the risk of overeating due to health reasons (ie obesity, diabetes, high salt intake, etc), and how well did that go for you? Most consumers have an inkling that there is risk in anything you consume. And unless they want to stop supporting said product, regulations will do very little about it. Again, follow the money.

Anyways, life is too short. Vape away at your own risk. But if it brings enjoyment to your life, what does it really matter? If if is not the vaping, something else will probably kill you first. Just saying.

From what I have read it is not even real vape that is the issue but black market stuff laced with things.

But I don't think anyone should be inhaling anything other than oxygen unless it is for a medicinal purpose.

I got back and forth on stuff like this. I've never smoked anything - I was raised with my dad smoking and hearing him hack every morning really put me off of it. I also like things very clean, to the point of being nearly OCD about it, and don't like how smoking anything makes this smell and can leave yellow stains. Gross in my opinion. BUT, I have a very firm belief in not judging others. I have my addictions - I have struggled with eating and over-eating all my life, using it as a crutch for my feelings. I have also recently struggled with drinking. I also have a very grounded belief in living your life to the fullest. I'm only 35 years old and I've had a lot of death in my life - my mom died very young, all of my grandparents are gone, and I've had a few friends my own age or younger pass from various things, some health related, some not. If something makes you happy and brings you enjoyment - and, of course NOT HURTING ANYONE ELSE - I find a hard time holding it against you. We aren't guaranteed anything in this life, especially a time frame.

So I guess IDK...

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Originally Posted by glowstone

not to mention 1 juul pod has more tobacco than an entire pack of cigarettes,

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:O Wow!

Coming in here as a nurse and someone who tries to know what they are putting in their body-- like others said it's probably just poor regulation and putting all kinds of who-knows-what into those products because they are not regulated. Anything that goes into our bodies needs to have full disclosure of what's in it and be regularly tested to make sure those things are safe.

Remember the vitamin scares a year or so back? There were all kinds of things in the vitamins not listed on the ingredients, and a lot of them didn't even have what was supposed to be in them!

BTW I have never smoked anything . . lifelong asthmatic. I don't understand the appeal of smoking/vaping/etc. but I do enjoy my coffee, so I imagine it's something like that for smokers.

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Originally Posted by glowstone

I think a lot of this has to do with deregulation in the vaping corporations, and so many newer companies trying to capitalize off of the vaping craze. (ill name names... juul.) they put so many chemicals into their pods.. not to mention 1 juul pod has more tobacco than an entire pack of cigarettes, and juuls "anti smoking campaigns" for teens/young adults are just pro vaping campaigns and claim its better for you (it poses the exact same risks as smoking.) not to mention the flavors, though nice for legal adults, are 100% contributing to the amount of nicotine addicted teens and children.

another thing to mention, with thc/cdb vaping, getting cartridges off the street is so dangerous because they are more likely to be not just watered down but full of chemicals and sometimes even laced. so if you are in a state where thc is illegal, or too young, buying it off the street is a huge huge risk many may not realize. this is the same with buying juul pods or nicotine vape cartridges off the street when you are underage. its all so dangerous.
((of course vaping is a good way to help quit smoking for people who were already cigarette addicted, but now with all the chemicals being put into it... im not so sure! ))

all in all, i think there should be MUCH more regulation on these.

anyone else have any thoughts?

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The reason 1 juul pod has more nicotine than a pack of ciggarettes is because a single juul pod lasts for about a week. When I was smoking I when through a pack every 5 days. How much nicotine is relative to how long the pod lasts. Not to mention the issue with people dying is from Vitamin E Acetate. This is not found in commercial Vape juice. It is only found in black market stuff. Also I agree that there needs to be regulation, but, and this is a big but, banning flavors is not the answer. That will just push people to buy on the black market.

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Originally Posted by FollowTheSun

Coming in here as a nurse and someone who tries to know what they are putting in their body-- like others said it's probably just poor regulation and putting all kinds of who-knows-what into those products because they are not regulated. Anything that goes into our bodies needs to have full disclosure of what's in it and be regularly tested to make sure those things are safe.

Remember the vitamin scares a year or so back? There were all kinds of things in the vitamins not listed on the ingredients, and a lot of them didn't even have what was supposed to be in them!

BTW I have never smoked anything . . lifelong asthmatic. I don't understand the appeal of smoking/vaping/etc. but I do enjoy my coffee, so I imagine it's something like that for smokers.

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OK Since you are a nurse you must agree that putting an oil in your lungs that only has about 5 ingredients, is better than a combustible that has thousands of ingredients.

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

...

My understanding in life is this: everything is out to kill you, either slowly or acutely. The air you breathe is polluted (man made or otherwise), the food you eat probably has cancer agents or bacteria or whatever (unless you grow your own food and cook the meat thoroughly), and the water you drink probably is contaminated with whatever.

... if it brings enjoyment to your life, what does it really matter? If if is not the vaping, something else will probably kill you first. Just saying.

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Yes, our world is FILLED with risk factors...we can't do anything about our genes, only some about our luck (as in what we're exposed to), but we CAN make the best
choices when it comes to the care we take of ourselves. Just because it's not an immediate danger doesn't mean the bad choices you make for your health don't add up.

Psychologically your answer is typical, since studies show that most people want immediate rewards in life, & are less likely to work toward long-range goals, even when
it concerns our health, not just financial savings & such. It's easier for young people to dismiss health concerns...it's only after you lose your health that you realize how
much it affects your entire life & limits your happiness. My parents were heavy smokers, so while that exposure was not healthy for me & my siblings growing up, it did
manage to cure me of any curiosity or desire to smoke, ever. For that, I'm grateful.

Quitting is obviously hard. But so is having lung cancer or COPD and a shorter life. Personally, I like improving my odds of staying healthy.

The way I see it, I'm 40 years old. I am old enough to make my own choices. Let me vape.

Plain and simple, it all comes down to the almighty dollar. Big Tobacco is seeing something cut into their profits. Since Big Tobacco is in the government pocket, they're squashing vaping.
Not because it might be harmful, but because of the almighty dollar.

If our health and safety were their concern cigarettes would be coming off the shelves too. It is well known cigarettes kill thousands and thousands of people each year. So clearly our public safety is not their concern.

And for those who say it's geared towards kids with all the fun flavors...why can vodka come in bubblegum, cotton candy, fruit loops, birthday cake and a million other flavors??

Again, this is not for our public safety, it's about money.

You can buy alcohol, tobacco, legal marijuana, a freaking gun!! Government is opening facilities for people to "safely" shoot heroin without fear of being arrested and be medically treated with Narcan if they OD.

And you want to take flavored nicotine away???

Don't Tread On Me!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

The way I see it, I'm 40 years old. I am old enough to make my own choices. Let me vape.

Plain and simple, it all comes down to the almighty dollar. Big Tobacco is seeing something cut into their profits. Since Big Tobacco is in the government pocket, they're squashing vaping.
Not because it might be harmful, but because of the almighty dollar.

If our health and safety were their concern cigarettes would be coming off the shelves too. It is well known cigarettes kill thousands and thousands of people each year. So clearly our public safety is not their concern.

And for those who say it's geared towards kids with all the fun flavors...why can vodka come in bubblegum, cotton candy, fruit loops, birthday cake and a million other flavors??

Again, this is not for our public safety, it's about money.

You can buy alcohol, tobacco, legal marijuana, a freaking gun!! Government is opening facilities for people to "safely" shoot heroin without fear of being arrested and be medically treated with Narcan if they OD.

And you want to take flavored nicotine away???

Don't Tread On Me!!!!!!!!!!

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I couldn't have said this better myself. Those who would give up privacy for a bit of security deserve neither privacy nor security.

I meant liberty not privacy

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

The way I see it, I'm 40 years old. I am old enough to make my own choices. Let me vape...

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"Pick your poison" as they say. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

"Pick your poison" as they say. ;)

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Hey, at least this one won't land me in jail or a coffin... Well, at least not right away... :rofl:

Well if it becomes illegal all I know is I am going to buy my stuff on the black market. A vape store I goto sells the flavors seperate so in 2 weeks I am going to go buy $100 worth of flavoring just in case.

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

Well if it becomes illegal all I know is I am going to buy my stuff on the black market. A vape store I goto sells the flavors seperate so in 2 weeks I am going to go buy $100 worth of flavoring just in case.

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I've already found some loopholes too. I'll still be vaping. Ssssshhhhh.... Don't Tell Uncle Sam

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I've already found some loopholes too. I'll still be vaping. Ssssshhhhh.... Don't Tell Uncle Sam

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I figured I smoked pot for years before it become legal. It doesn't bother me to be on the other side of the law. I just hope they dont do something stupid like make it a felony or something.

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

I figured I smoked pot for years before it become legal. It doesn't bother me to be on the other side of the law. I just hope they dont do something stupid like make it a felony or something.

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I highly doubt it will even become illegal, I just don’t see it happening. Maybe banning the certain chemical and then adding extra warnings like they do with cigs and alcohol. I would much rather smoke a blunt than vape honestly lol I’ve felt great since I kicked all the tobacco and nicotine minus the occasional gutted swisher.


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This is a bit off topic but since we are talking about vaping-related deaths and regulations I just wanted to offer my perspective.

I wonder why "they" (the powers that be) do more to address the alcohol problem? As a hospice nurse I see Far More people die from alcohol-related liver disease than I ever would have imagined before I work where I do (and it's an awful death, too). My partner is a former alcoholic who has a damaged liver. I have lost 2 dear friends to liver failure due to alcoholism.

People joke about "Mommy needs wine" and can't seem to have a good time without drinking to "loosen up." I don't drink-- and I don't judge those who do, but it makes *them* feel awkward when I ask for soda instead, and there are social events where partner and I are not invited because there's drinking. It's not something people talk about-- the toll that alcohol use takes-- and how pervasive it is because it's acceptable, but it's something we should talk more about.

Anyway . . . I do see lung cancer/COPD patients too, but most of them are older.

I have only ever had a handful of drug-related deaths on our unit.

I have never had a patient yet die from marijuana. In fact many of my cancer patients find medical marijuana helpful. (Why it is illegal I have no idea, it seems the least harmful of all of them)

Most of my alcoholic liver patients are 30's to 50's, and from all walks of life, socio-economic, religious backgrounds. Way too young to be facing end of life, and totally preventable. :disbelief

On a given day on my 12-bed unit, I will have about 6 old people dying of natural causes (including Alzheimers, heart disease, etc), 2 COPD patients (smokers), 2-3 cancer patients, and 1-2 alcoholic liver patients.

Anyway, something to think about.

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Originally Posted by FollowTheSun

This is a bit off topic but since we are talking about vaping-related deaths and regulations I just wanted to offer my perspective.

I wonder why "they" (the powers that be) do more to address the alcohol problem? As a hospice nurse I see Far More people die from alcohol-related liver disease than I ever would have imagined before I work where I do (and it's an awful death, too). My partner is a former alcoholic who has a damaged liver. I have lost 2 dear friends to liver failure due to alcoholism.

People joke about "Mommy needs wine" and can't seem to have a good time without drinking to "loosen up." I don't drink-- and I don't judge those who do, but it makes *them* feel awkward when I ask for soda instead, and there are social events where partner and I are not invited because there's drinking. It's not something people talk about-- the toll that alcohol use takes-- and how pervasive it is because it's acceptable, but it's something we should talk more about.

Anyway . . . I do see lung cancer/COPD patients too, but most of them are older.

I have only ever had a handful of drug-related deaths on our unit.

I have never had a patient yet die from marijuana. In fact many of my cancer patients find medical marijuana helpful. (Why it is illegal I have no idea, it seems the least harmful of all of them)

Most of my alcoholic liver patients are 30's to 50's, and from all walks of life, socio-economic, religious backgrounds. Way too young to be facing end of life, and totally preventable. :disbelief

On a given day on my 12-bed unit, I will have about 6 old people dying of natural causes (including Alzheimers, heart disease, etc), 2 COPD patients (smokers), 2-3 cancer patients, and 1-2 alcoholic liver patients.

Anyway, something to think about.

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My dad is wheel chair bound because of alcohol, it’s absolutely terrible. The thought of it happening to me scares me to death, I won’t drink hard liquor at all and I only drink maybe a couple beers a week if I feel like I want one. I don’t understand why weed is illegal still either, it helps my anxiety and depression almost disappear and that’s a wonderful thing to get rid of.


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i haven't had a cigarette since april and don't want to go back. i am 100% addicted to "smoking" something, whatever and e-cigs save me from smelling like an ashtray. i'm not gonna stop. from what i understand, it is the black market crap that is making people sick.

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

Well if it becomes illegal all I know is I am going to buy my stuff on the black market....

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That's where MOST of the risk is...I hope you change your mind or it doesn't come to that.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That's where MOST of the risk is...I hope you change your mind or it doesn't come to that.

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I know I agree, but if they push this ban I will have no choice. I will have to do my homework and become a vaping expert. Until now I've depended on different stores that perform testing on their juice. Without that it's going to be difficult to do it safely.

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Just got 9 bottles in the mail yesterday :D

This article brings up some good points. I'm all for making our own choices in life, but good lungs come in handy...;)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/16/healt...ner/index.html

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

This article brings up some good points. I'm all for making our own choices in life, but good lungs come in handy...;)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/16/healt...ner/index.html

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I'm aware of the risks. But I stand firmly that I should be able to make my own choices. And I think it's absolute BS that government is pretending to care about our health and well-being.
If they REALLY cared, alcohol and tobacco would be coming off shelves too. But nope, it's obviously about money.
I'm 40 years old and don't need greedy politicians telling me I can't vape while they roll in the money Big Tobacco provides.

They way I see it, as long as I'm not harming anyone else government shouldn't be able to tell me I can't do it.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I'm aware of the risks. But I stand firmly that I should be able to make my own choices. And I think it's absolute BS that government is pretending to care about our health and well-being.
If they REALLY cared, alcohol and tobacco would be coming off shelves too. But nope, it's obviously about money.
I'm 40 years old and don't need greedy politicians telling me I can't vape while they roll in the money Big Tobacco provides.

They way I see it, as long as I'm not harming anyone else government shouldn't be able to tell me I can't do it.

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Big tobacco has huge amounts of money in vaping company stock, jul is owned partially by marbro I don’t think vaping in going anywhere. Maybe some more labels and maybe restrictions in some areas but like you said to many people are making money off of it.


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Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

and making my choice of what to put in my body is an essential Liberty

They should ban Cigarettes as well, far more detrimental numbers than this vaping. Something like 1300 people die every day from cigarettes that’s over 47 million a year. Compare that to 88000 annual deaths from alcohol. We certainly don’t have any far more pressing things to deal with.
The word is out on the vaping black market stuff so any one with a fair IQ can decide ya or nay based on that. I’m guessing these people responsible are from the US but why hold them accountable? What gets me the most is still the huge death toll from cigarettes getting swept under the rug.
Ten years ago my mother died from COPD and it’s complications. A victim of the Tobacco Industry that admittedly pumped up cigarettes with more nicotine to get smokers hooked. I can not for the life of me understand why Cigarettes are readily available and legal for adults.
So I say all or nothing on all Tobacco.

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Originally Posted by Jakethesnake69

They should ban Cigarettes as well, far more detrimental numbers than this vaping. Something like 1300 people die every day from cigarettes that’s over 47 million a year. Compare that to 88000 annual deaths from alcohol. We certainly don’t have any far more pressing things to deal with.
The word is out on the vaping black market stuff so any one with a fair IQ can decide ya or nay based on that. I’m guessing these people responsible are from the US but why hold them accountable? What gets me the most is still the huge death toll from cigarettes getting swept under the rug.
Ten years ago my mother died from COPD and it’s complications. A victim of the Tobacco Industry that admittedly pumped up cigarettes with more nicotine to get smokers hooked. I can not for the life of me understand why Cigarettes are readily available and legal for adults.
So I say all or nothing on all Tobacco.

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Jake, so sorry about your mom- my dad also died from a massive heart attack and suffered COPD for many years after a fairly long life of heavy smoking. So much has been swept under the rug about smoking risks, & the same will be true for vaping, because tobacco & drug companies are making lots of money at the expense of people's health that get hooked. And make no mistake, they've modified ingredients after LOTS of research to make sure that people have trouble quitting tobacco...so I'm going to assume there is little difference with vaping products, even if research is not yet completed to prove it. Other drugs that are known to be addictive are not freely sold, so why are some things OK? Money, I guess...& lots of it.

To Craig, & sur3fir3 & others in agreement with you:
I'm all for being able to do what you want with your own body, as long as (A) what you do poses no risk to others -like when ppl drink & drive, and also (B) as long as I'm not paying for your health care as a tax-payer, at least not for any issues that are the result of self-inflicted health problems...is that fair? If you're on any sort of public health program (& I'm NOT asking- I'm just saying-) then I think that changes the equation, don't you? Our decisions all come with consequences, and if you deliberately use unhealthy addicting substances, you should be responsible for any damage that results from the poor choices you made...because the rest of us have rights too, yes?

And I wish I knew what the answer is...because we all want pain relief & enjoy pleasurable feelings...but we all don't get addicted as easily as some others do.
Some people (myself included) can drink a half a glass of wine just now & then with dinner & never want more, & never drink to excess...but not everyone. :confusd:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Jake, so sorry about your mom- my dad also died from a massive heart attack and suffered COPD for many years after a fairly long life of heavy smoking. So much has been swept under the rug about smoking risks, & the same will be true for vaping, because tobacco & drug companies are making lots of money at the expense of people's health that get hooked. And make no mistake, they've modified ingredients after LOTS of research to make sure that people have trouble quitting tobacco...so I'm going to assume there is little difference with vaping products, even if research is not yet completed to prove it. Other drugs that are known to be addictive are not freely sold, so why are some things OK? Money, I guess...& lots of it.

To Craig, & sur3fir3 & others in agreement with you:
I'm all for being able to do what you want with your own body, as long as (A) what you do poses no risk to others -like when ppl drink & drive, and also (B) as long as I'm not paying for your health care as a tax-payer, at least not for any issues that are the result of self-inflicted health problems...is that fair? If you're on any sort of public health program (& I'm NOT asking- I'm just saying-) then I think that changes the equation, don't you? Our decisions all come with consequences, and if you deliberately use unhealthy addicting substances, you should be responsible for any damage that results from the poor choices you made...because the rest of us have rights too, yes?

And I wish I knew what the answer is...because we all want pain relief & enjoy pleasurable feelings...but we all don't get addicted as easily as some others do.
Some people (myself included) can drink a half a glass of wine just now & then with dinner & never want more, & never drink to excess...but not everyone. :confusd:

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I disagree to a point. I believe that if there is a substance that is sold that is addictive and harmful the people who sell it should be required by law to put aside a percentage of the sales to help deal with the fall out from selling said product.

I should say a large percentage. The tobacco and alcohol companies should have to pay at least 30% of the health costs associated with smoking. I mean I know they do taxes, but those taxes are paid by the people. This needs to be paid by the tobacco companies.

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

I disagree to a point. I believe that if there is a substance that is sold that is addictive and harmful the people who sell it should be required by law to put aside a percentage of the sales to help deal with the fall out from selling said product.

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Nice idea but that's putting a great deal of trust in the ethics of those who are so profit-motivated that they truly don't care about your health. That's why we have class-
action lawsuits. It's also very hard to predict the effects of many products...there's the human factor involved...like people who decide on alternative uses for otherwise
useful products (-huffing paint comes to mind). Anyway it's a challenge to prove that the manufacturers & sellers "knew" what they actually knew...look how long "big
tobacco" companies avoided paying settlements...or big oil companies whose research on air pollution was swept under their rug. Seems like the original purpose to vape
was promoted (falsely) as a way for smokers to actually quit. Wink wink... It's not being used that way most of the time, it's just another addiction, thanks to the many
promoters making it look "cool" & adding flavors (& who knows what?) to hook those younger & unwary...it's just a repeat of the cigarette playbook. :rolleyes:

Latest in the news:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/17/healt...nia/index.html

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Nice idea but that's putting a great deal of trust in the ethics of those who are so profit-motivated that they truly don't care about your health. That's why we have class-
action lawsuits. It's also very hard to predict the effects of many products...there's the human factor involved...like people who decide on alternative uses for otherwise
useful products (-huffing paint comes to mind). Anyway it's a challenge to prove that the manufacturers & sellers "knew" what they actually knew...look how long "big
tobacco" companies avoided paying settlements...or big oil companies whose research on air pollution was swept under their rug. Seems like the original purpose to vape
was promoted (falsely) as a way for smokers to actually quit. Wink wink... It's not being used that way most of the time, it's just another addiction, thanks to the many
promoters making it look "cool" & adding flavors (& who knows what?) to hook those younger & unwary...it's just a repeat of the cigarette playbook. :rolleyes:

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Well I have to say it is easier to quit vaping than it is to quit smoking. I started with 2 packs a week. When I went to vaping I started on 12mg. Now I am down to 1.5mg I am hoping to switch to 0 mg soon. I have basically cut down my nicotine intake quite a bit. I am hoping that when I goto 0 that it will not be too big of a deal. Going from 12mg to 6mg was a bit rough, but 6 to 3 and 3 to 1.5 was easy. Everytime the government wants to ban something they find some way to say we have to ban it for the kids. Its ridiculous. If we wanted to do something for the kids we should make smoking age 21. I'm sorry but everytime the government feels like banning something they always use kids as an excuse. The person keeping kids away from vaping shouldn't be the government it should be the parents. Vaping is already 18+ what more do you want? Yea lets ban vaping so that a black market arises, and causes more damage than when it was legal. I just dont see the point in banning something for the kids when its already 18+.

Also I highly doubt vape companies went after kids. It would be stupid to do so after what happened to the tobacco companies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

I should say a large percentage. The tobacco and alcohol companies should have to pay at least 30% of the health costs associated with smoking. I mean I know they do taxes, but those taxes are paid by the people. This needs to be paid by the tobacco companies.

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I just wish they would stop selling alcohol and tobacco, I enjoy beer quite a bit but all of it does more harm than good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

To Craig, & sur3fir3 & others in agreement with you:
I'm all for being able to do what you want with your own body, as long as (A) what you do poses no risk to others -like when ppl drink & drive, and also (B) as long as I'm not paying for your health care as a tax-payer, at least not for any issues that are the result of self-inflicted health problems...is that fair? If you're on any sort of public health program (& I'm NOT asking- I'm just saying-) then I think that changes the equation, don't you? Our decisions all come with consequences, and if you deliberately use unhealthy addicting substances, you should be responsible for any damage that results from the poor choices you made...because the rest of us have rights too, yes?

And I wish I knew what the answer is...because we all want pain relief & enjoy pleasurable feelings...but we all don't get addicted as easily as some others do.
Some people (myself included) can drink a half a glass of wine just now & then with dinner & never want more, & never drink to excess...but not everyone. :confusd:

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You actually make a very good point that I hadn't considered. As adults who are given a choice, we should also be held accountable for what may come of our choices.
That being said, I think in many cases it would be way too difficult to determine "who should be financially responsible" if medical treatment is needed.

Just to play devil's advocate here...
If Joe Schmoe worked a job his whole that was physically demanding, should he be responsible for his medical bills because he knew his job may lead to knee, back, shoulder problems?

If Jane Doe loves skiing but is injured skiing should she be responsible?

If Jimmy ODs shooting dope should he be left to die because he has state health care?

I would have to say no...
And I know I'm talking apples and oranges, but just trying to paint a picture with a broad brush to illustrate a point.


Edit to comment on a point by sur3fir3....

Abso-freaking-lutely parents should be held accountable if their kids are vaping. It's not governments job to baby-sit.

Check this article out:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...to-the-states/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

Well I have to say it is easier to quit vaping than it is to quit smoking. I started with 2 packs a week. When I went to vaping I started on 12mg. Now I am down to 1.5mg I am hoping to switch to 0 mg soon. I have basically cut down my nicotine intake quite a bit. I am hoping that when I goto 0 that it will not be too big of a deal. Going from 12mg to 6mg was a bit rough, but 6 to 3 and 3 to 1.5 was easy. Everytime the government wants to ban something they find some way to say we have to ban it for the kids. Its ridiculous. If we wanted to do something for the kids we should make smoking age 21. I'm sorry but everytime the government feels like banning something they always use kids as an excuse. The person keeping kids away from vaping shouldn't be the government it should be the parents. Vaping is already 18+ what more do you want? Yea lets ban vaping so that a black market arises, and causes more damage than when it was legal. I just dont see the point in banning something for the kids when its already 18+.

Also I highly doubt vape companies went after kids. It would be stupid to do so after what happened to the tobacco companies.

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My wife went from smoking to vaping and it saved a ton of money. Instead of 3-4 dollars a day. It is one pack of cartridges ( Fuma ) less than 10 dollars and that lasts about 3 months. Do that math. She now hardly ever uses the vape now and is considering quitting all together.
I don't think you will even be able to tell the difference going down from 1.5 to zero. Let us know I am curious to know. But I really don't think you will even feel it. But good luck. And the way you have done it I always thought would work and you have just about proved it to me, (one more step to go).
My wife is only vaping once a day or some days none. The type Fuma she likes don't have taper down amounts. So she might quit altogether well see. But your way of quitting is better than hers. But as long as she quits I won't care because her health just can't take either anymore.

But after watching the cotton balls video about 30 days smoking verses vaping on You Tube anybody would have to see that vaping is better than smoking. But quitting is better than vaping and using vape should be about quitting. IMO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

You actually make a very good point that I hadn't considered. As adults who are given a choice, we should also be held accountable for what may come of our choices.
That being said, I think in many cases it would be way too difficult to determine "who should be financially responsible" if medical treatment is needed.

Just to play devil's advocate here...
If Joe Schmoe worked a job his whole that was physically demanding, should he be responsible for his medical bills because he knew his job may lead to knee, back, shoulder problems?

If Jane Doe loves skiing but is injured skiing should she be responsible?

If Jimmy ODs shooting dope should he be left to die because he has state health care?

I would have to say no...
And I know I'm talking apples and oranges, but just trying to paint a picture with a broad brush to illustrate a point.


Edit to comment on a point by sur3fir3....

Abso-freaking-lutely parents should be held accountable if their kids are vaping. It's not governments job to baby-sit.

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I agree it's a "slippery slope" that no one really wants to see, but (theoretically) that's why we have a government to issue warnings & put limits that protect the health
of our society...& NOT to be "in bed" with the big corporations* that are raking in the profits of their harmful products. (*And no, they didn't "learn" :rolleyes: -not when huge
profits are involved.) We all would love to be "free to do whatever we want" but it's just like with health care...many don't want to be required to "buy into" any plan if
they don't want to (especially those who are younger and seem "healthy")...but then when -not "if"!- they get sick or have an accident, ALL the REST of us pay for their
emergency room visits, etc...& that's just not fair either. That's like the friend who always shows up empty-handed to eat what everyone else brought to the potluck.;)

As adults, we all want our free choices, only we do have to consider what is good for our society as a whole too. Certainly those under-age are the responsibility of their
parents, not the government or the rest of us.

Well, MA just put a ban in place, effective immediately. A four month ban. So freaking stupid. I can't vape at 40 years old, but at 18 you can go to war and die for your country...