Will cutting a rodents teeth prevent risk of live feeding injury?

I'm considering a ball python, but the main thing holding me back is their tendency to skip meals; I can't justify wasting a rat every time he/she refuses a meal.
My proposed solution is to feed live, because if the meal is refused, the rodent can be kept in a separate enclosure and maintained for another day.


I want to know, will trimming a rodents teeth down to the nub prevent live feeding disasters?



Do you personally feed live?
If so, what are your experiences?

Are the dangers of feeding small rats to ball pythons overhyped, or is eventual injury really as certain as it's portrayed to be online?

What a horrible idea! I'd suggest that you NOT get a ball python. How about an Australian Spotted python? They happily eat f/t, & so do many other snakes.

And I have to ask: Just how do you think you'll be able to file down the teeth of a live rodent? Do you imagine that's not painful, frightening or that they're
going to sit still for that??? DO NOT TRY THIS.

I feed fresh-killed or f/t, never live. The dangers are real & not "over-hyped"...sooner or later your snake will need the vet, & may die anyway. If you doubt this,
call any exotic vet that has treated snakes for a while & ask them about the injuries they see...about the snakes with their eyes chewed out, & all that. Ask them
if antibiotics always work for infections that result. And consider how you'll feel if your pet survives & every day you have to look at them all scarred up & know
that you could have prevented it. It happens in the wild too, but wild snakes do not have a choice...there's no room service, they have to survive as best as they
can, & very few live as long as captive pets. for this reason.

I honestly don't even want to know what made you think of that......
A properly cared for rat is not a problem.
There are risks to feeding live and frozen.
I have fed thousands of live with only a couple scratches as damage.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

What a horrible idea! I'd suggest that you NOT get a ball python. How about an Australian Spotted python? They happily eat f/t, & so do many other snakes.

And I have to ask: Just how do you think you'll be able to file down the teeth of a live rodent? Do you imagine that's not painful, frightening or that they're
going to sit still for that??? DO NOT TRY THIS.

I feed fresh-killed or f/t, never live. The dangers are real & not "over-hyped"...sooner or later your snake will need the vet, & may die anyway. If you doubt this,
call any exotic vet that has treated snakes for a while & ask them about the injuries they see...about the snakes with their eyes chewed out, & all that. Ask them
if antibiotics always work for infections that result. And consider how you'll feel if your pet survives & every day you have to look at them all scarred up & know
that you could have prevented it. It happens in the wild too, but wild snakes do not have a choice...there's no room service, they have to survive as best as they
can, & very few live as long as captive pets. for this reason.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I honestly don't even want to know what made you think of that......
A properly cared for rat is not a problem.
There are risks to feeding live and frozen.
I have fed thousands of live with only a couple scratches as damage.

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Let's keep in mind that rat's teeth are much different than our own, their teeth regenerate throughout their entire lives.


It's common place for rat keepers to regularly snip their rats teeth if it has orthodontic issues.

I have fed well over 25000 live preys (likely double) and never stunned or cut a feeders teeth.

If you can't feed live responsibly than feed f/t, if you don't want to waste food than don't get a anake.

There are keys to feed live and the first one is to not stress or abuse a feeder.

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Originally Posted by PartySnake13

Let's keep in mind that rat's teeth are much different than our own, their teeth regenerate throughout their entire lives.


It's common place for rat keepers to regularly snip their rats teeth if it has orthodontic issues.

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Teeth trimming is not the same as cutting them to the point where they cannot damage a snake. You'd need to cut to the gums and after a quick search, they DO have a nerve in their incisors that you would have to cut to do what you want. (Source, ratbehavior.org/teeth.htm - anatomy of a tooth section)

Definitely do not torture live rats like that just to feed a snake.

Either accept the risks that might happen when feeding live if it becomes necessary, learn all the methods to avoid live feedings with a potentially finicky snake, or choose a snake known for take frozen thaw easily. (Including most colubrids, carpet pythons, boas, etc.)

I have a few snakes who do better with live, and it is my personal choice to feed this way to those snakes. I take full responsibility if something happens. To that end, I breed my own rats from exceedingly good pet quality lines and even after being struck, none of my pups or older rats have even attempted to bite down on the snake reflexively despite the pain (pet store rats fed a few times previously all attempted to bite ones they had been grabbed by the snake).

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Originally Posted by Stewart_Reptiles

I have fed well over 25000 live preys (likely double) and never stunned or cut a feeders teeth.

If you can't feed live responsibly than feed f/t, if you don't want to waste food than don't get a anake.

There are keys to feed live and the first one is to not stress or abuse a feeder.

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I pm'd you, I'd like to know how to responsibly feed live.

Whatever your talking about as to do with Rats teeth forget all that. I breed, Nobody cuts their teeth thats nuts. Nothing like pissing off a Rat then putting it in a enclosure with a snake, thats how a snake gets hurt!!
If you want a Ball, feed smaller than normal rats to avoid injury once they are adults. I myself do NOT go by the size rule of “rodent as large as thickest part of the snake” when a Ball is full grown. That would mean my large female would take large rats and a Live large rat would mess her up good, she is a gentle eater and would get bit Im sure.
She only takes Live so she is my one snake that doesnt get fresh killed or frozen.
Another key to feeding is dont over feed. Balls are usually not gluttons. If you have a snake that refused try once every 3 weeks and that will reduce refusals.
Also if they refuse, wait a min of 2 weeks to try again. A Ball python can refuse when you keep trying as it becomes habit forming.



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I believe in humane treatment of all animals, especially those under our care. That includes prey animals. I even expect my daughter to take good care of her feeder crickets until they are given to her lizard.

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Originally Posted by PartySnake13

I pm'd you, I'd like to know how to responsibly feed live.

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Answered your PM but I will also repost here because I believe it is something everyone should know

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The first steps start with the prey itself.

If you purchase the prey give it an hour or two when you will offer water and food, no knowing how they are taking care of making sure they are fed and hydrated prior to being fed is important, obviously a starving feeder will see your snake as a food source.

Scent the room by leaving the feeder nearby the snake enclosure, this help entice the snake to eat (basically do this while doing the step above), it is especially important with Ball Pythons as they are a little more finicky than other species.

Feed in the enclosure.

Feed the appropriate size prey because a Ball Python can eat a large prey does not means he should or need to I have 3500/4000 grams females that eat nothing larger than 150 grams rat on a weekly basis.

Do not stress the feeder, the proper feeder is one that is well fed well hydrated and not stress and usually those feeder will just sit in a corner grooming themselves waiting for their fate, if your snake does not snatch them immediately.

Do not leave the prey in the enclosure for more than 10 min, if your snake is not eating within that time frame, it just won't

Finally if a snake is a poor hunter/aimer simply feed F/T for the obvious reasons, it happens and it's not worth the risk.

Finally whether you feed F/T or live there will be waste because that is what ball python do they will skip a meal or fast, they all do eventually so you either re-freeze and offer again and than toss, or you end up with a pet rat or two as at some point they are bigger than what should be fed.

The trick to also have an BP that feed with more consistency is to feed small prey weekly or even every 7 to 10 days and skip meals every now and then.

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Originally Posted by FollowTheSun

I believe in humane treatment of all animals, especially those under our care. That includes prey animals. I even expect my daughter to take good care of her feeder crickets until they are given to her lizard.

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To be honest when we get this type of
query / thread my first thought is that it’s another bogus thread ..

What kind of person could cut / break / pull out the teeth of a live animal in the first place ??




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Originally Posted by Zincubus

To be honest when we get this type of
query / thread my first thought is that it’s another bogus thread ..

What kind of person could cut / break / pull out the teeth of a live animal in the first place ??


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While I agree with that whole heartedly, let's also keep in mind this is a place to ask questions and learn things. Benefit of the doubt; the OP really didn't think of it as torture or harming the rat since breeders do it, albeit for a different reason. I'm not calling anyone out for their feelings I just don't want to see this thread get derailed due to lack of education which is what we're all here for.

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Originally Posted by Toad37

While I agree with that whole heartedly, let's also keep in mind this is a place to ask questions and learn things. Benefit of the doubt; the OP really didn't think of it as torture or harming the rat since breeders do it, albeit for a different reason. I'm not calling anyone out for their feelings I just don't want to see this thread get derailed due to lack of education which is what we're all here for.

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I had no idea that anybody COULD do something like that to an animal let alone WERE doing it !

I’m stunned .


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I had no idea that anybody COULD do something like that to an animal let alone WERE doing it !

I’m stunned .


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It sounds like you're mixing up or not aware of the differences between the suggestion OP made and what some rat breeders actually do, so I'd like to try and explain it. This is primarily done by pet owners or breeders who are unwilling to cull for a specific defect.

Rat breeders unwilling to cull a rat with malocclusion (i.e. a rat whose teeth do not line up and cannot be ground together to wear them down or by eating/chewing normally) will keep the rat from suffering from tooth overgrowth by trimming the very tips of the teeth every 1 to 2 weeks as they continue to grow the same way you trim a dog's nails. Clipping a tiny bit off the end to prevent them getting dangerously long or painful to the rat. This is only needed when the teeth misalign so they cannot be worn down naturally and is painless as they're only taking a tiny bit off the end where there are no nerves/root and should normally be worn down anyway. (Not doing so on a rat with malocclusion would result in teeth overgrowing into the upper mouth or brain or out the sides of the mouth.. it is a death sentence not to trim on these rats as it will either kill them through the brain or prevent them from being able to eat food entirely.)

This trimming does not reduce the teeth to the point that a bite could not kill a snake nor make them less sharp/harmful, so the version breeders sometimes use would not help make a rat "safer" to feed live.

My understanding of what OP suggested was to cut the teeth significantly more such that it would no longer be able to bite and cause damage. This would necessitate cutting more tooth than the above trimming (probably all the way down to the gums) would ever do and would cut into the root of the tooth and be extremely painful for the rat. This is something no (humane) breeder would ever do.

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Another option, gas the rat (CO2) an feed, fresh kill. If the snake refuses it, freeze an try again in a week or two.
You can re-freeze a rodent "if" it hasn't been warm too long.

Cutting teeth? You'll stress the whole house out an then you still have claws to deal with.

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Originally Posted by PartySnake13

I'm considering a ball python, but the main thing holding me back is their tendency to skip meals; I can't justify wasting a rat every time he/she refuses a meal.
My proposed solution is to feed live, because if the meal is refused, the rodent can be kept in a separate enclosure and maintained for another day.


I want to know, will trimming a rodents teeth down to the nub prevent live feeding disasters?



Do you personally feed live?
If so, what are your experiences?

Are the dangers of feeding small rats to ball pythons overhyped, or is eventual injury really as certain as it's portrayed to be online?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by PartySnake13

Let's keep in mind that rat's teeth are much different than our own, their teeth regenerate throughout their entire lives.


It's common place for rat keepers to regularly snip their rats teeth if it has orthodontic issues.

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I was going to add to this but I think the answers already given cover almost everything I would have said.

One point that is worth adding though is not ALL ball pythons are picky feeders - far from it in fact. So you may be worrying unnecessarily.

I feed slightly smaller meals ( small rats or even large weaners most of the time ) and I've found this reduces the amount of refused feedings. The biggests parts of this trick is to find how your snake wants its meals presented and to let it defost near the enclosure so the snake knows a meal is about to be presented ( I only feed F/T ).

I'm ok with wasting a bag of frozen/ thawed rats to see if I can find a way the animal will accept the meal than cause pain and distress to animal I'm about to drop in the same enclosure as my snake.

Horrible idea. Please do not do it.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I had no idea that anybody COULD do something like that to an animal let alone WERE doing it !

I’m stunned .


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I usually remind myself how people treat human children when things like this pop up.

Look up cervical dislocation if you need to fresh kill the rodent for the snake. Some breeders may even try to wean it onto frozen for you.

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Originally Posted by PartySnake13

I'm considering a ball python, but the main thing holding me back is their tendency to skip meals; I can't justify wasting a rat every time he/she refuses a meal.
My proposed solution is to feed live, because if the meal is refused, the rodent can be kept in a separate enclosure and maintained for another day.


I want to know, will trimming a rodents teeth down to the nub prevent live feeding disasters?



Do you personally feed live?
If so, what are your experiences?



Are the dangers of feeding small rats to ball pythons overhyped, or is eventual injury really as certain as it's portrayed to be online?

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I've worried about my snakes getting injured but what I decided to do was just feed them many smaller live prey items or just pre kill the live rat altogether.

I have 14 BPs all eat live and none have ever been injured.

Ive noticed when they're really hungry, they waste no time in striking and usually always grab the rodent within seconds of me dropping it on there except for my enchi gravel that jerk will only eat prekilled if he's not being watched.

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Originally Posted by dr del

I was going to add to this but I think the answers already given cover almost everything I would have said.

One point that is worth adding though is not ALL ball pythons are picky feeders - far from it in fact. So you may be worrying unnecessarily.

I feed slightly smaller meals ( small rats or even large weaners most of the time ) and I've found this reduces the amount of refused feedings. The biggests parts of this trick is to find how your snake wants its meals presented and to let it defost near the enclosure so the snake knows a meal is about to be presented ( I only feed F/T ).

I'm ok with wasting a bag of frozen/ thawed rats to see if I can find a way the animal will accept the meal than cause pain and distress to animal I'm about to drop in the same enclosure as my snake.

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That’s so true about them ( Royals/Balls) all being picky eaters!!

Many of my best feeders inc Burns / Retics / King snakes have been Royals !

One was so voracious it was actually scary feeding him !!


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Teeth aside, you probably might want to declaw them as well. They can do damage from just clawing.

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Originally Posted by scobro

Teeth aside, you probably might want to declaw them as well. They can do damage from just clawing.

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You come up with a suggestion of declawing a live animal like that in your second ever post in here ..


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Originally Posted by scobro

Teeth aside, you probably might want to declaw them as well. They can do damage from just clawing.

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Here is a reminder for you when it comes to TOS and possible infraction

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Dangerous Advice -- 10 pts
Telling someone to do something completely contrary to known safe methods of husbandry. Not something "different" from normal methods, but things known to be dangerous or potentially harmful. Whether in jest or in seriousness, it matters not.

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Anyway I think we are done here the OP was provided with all the info necessary to answer his questions.