First Snake on Saturday!

Hi, I'm new to the forums and I need a place to excitedly yell.

On Saturday, the exotic pet expo in Jackson TN is gong to be where I get my first snake. I've wanted a snake for a few years now and always thought I didn't have the means to care for one until I learned that they sell frozen right at the expos and that you can buy in bulk! Besides the Jackson expo, Repticon visits every handful of months just a couple hours away in South Haven!

We have a PetSense in town that has frozen, but I always worried they would go out of business or otherwise leave me without anything to feed my long friend with.

Now my worries are no more and it is happening.

I've been saving up doing art commissions and buying supplies for a couple months now and I think I'm in a good place. My first choice is a ball python because I've already handled one before and really enjoyed it. I like their chill and curious dispositions.

I've been eye-balling corn snakes and king snakes too because they are beautiful and I think the way they behave is interesting, but they just don't have that little puppy face.

This won't be my first herp, I've got a crested gecko already. Tarot is a cool little dude and I like caring for him.

I'M JUST REALLY EXCITED, YALL. I've got a budget of about 160$ and I'm sure I can find a nice little friend with that!

For a first snake I would suggest a king or corn over a ball python. They're more forgiving of husbandry mistakes and will typically take f/t feeders without any issues. Unfortunately you may end up getting a ball python that only eats live feeders because... well... not every expo vendor is 100% truthful...

Also I'd suggest taking a friend who knows snakes to save you from "SHINY OBJECT" syndrome.

Finally, look up the list of vendors who will be attending the expo and then read through https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...g-Herps-Online to research who should get your money.

I totally understand your excitement. And FYI....it never goes away completely, from what I've read.

Looking forward to your new "danger noodle". Keep us posted!

Welcome to the forum and (soon) the wonderful world of snake keeping.

I've kept all three species you're interested in. And I absolutely LOVE Kings and BPs. Corn, honestly bore me, so I no longer keep corns.

If you go King, keep in mind they are FANTASTIC escape artists. Juveniles can fit through the tiniest of holes, so make sure your enclosure is 100% escape proof.

As for BPs, you'll see a fair amount of people say they don't make great first snakes. I disagree wholeheartedly. If you've done research and are prepared they're actually quite easy. If you expect a pain in the butt eater or occasional food strikes they won't stress you out so much.

Either way, if you're prepared, your enclosure and heating equipment are all set up and dialed in (equipment working right, temps controlled by a thermostat, temps dialed in, humidity, etc...) before bringing the snake home it will save a lot of stress on you and, more importantly, the animal.

Good luck, ask all the questions you may have and keep us posted.

Oh, and also, it's very important to make sure you have some money stashed away for emergency vet visits. They can and do happen. And as pet keepers it's our responsibility to make sure we can help them when they need it.
I know you're on a budget, believe me I get it. But considering you're already tight, maybe save some vet money first and buy your snake at the next expo in a few months.

Welcome !!

Royal ( Ball) pythons are fabulous first snakes PROVIDING that you ensure that it’s a GOOD feeder ..


I only buy off breeders I chat with on snake forums but it’s harder for you if you’re buying from show / event I suppose


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Thanks for the warm welcome guys! I look forward to being a part of this community. I've been reading around for a while and everyone seems nice and ready to help newcomers to the hobby.

BCR229 - I think the only thing keeping me from swapping my main goal from ball to corn or king is that they move a little faster and I'm afraid of dropping them and injuring them. I could always work my way up from having floor time to chair time like I have with my gecko.

I'll have to see who seems most promising when I get to the show--unfortunately my snake buddy isn't local so it'll just be me and some family members. Luckily I won't be swayed TOO badly by shiny snake syndrome. I walked around the entire Repticon multiple times before I settled on Tarot. Thanks for the link! I'll pull up that list and compare. I've scouted out one vendor already on youtube. They seemed nice last Repticon.

Shayne - Howdy and thanks! I'll be sure to share my new friend with yall in this thread!

Craiga - Heya! Thanks for the info! I've heard all about how pesky balls can be thanks to my buddy's snake, Ethan. Ethan is THE biggest premadonna of a snake. I've read that as long as they aren't dropping weight like crazy, just let them chill. Especially when it's breeding season and they're scouring their enclosure for sweet babes. Do I have that right? I don't want to ignore something that could be a problem.

You'll be happy to hear that I've been dry-running my enclosure for a few days now to test out everything and borderline obsessively fiddling with the thermostat and my heat gun to make sure it's just right. I've been watching my humidity gauge and continually adding holes and I swapped from aspen to paper towel (at least for now) because I live down south and it gets SO humid here.

That's so true about vet bills! I've got cats and they are very good at randomly developing problems. I just got a raise at work so I should be okay. There is an exotic vet not too far from where my local Repticon is held! :3

Zincubus - Hi! What's the best way to ask a seller if their hatchlings are eating well? The number of meals/sheds they've had? Thanks!

:welcome: I'm not a BP fan- I've kept them in the past though & didn't know quite as much as I do now (from this forum). I am more into colubrids, but there
are other great pets even besides colubrids, like the small (corn snake sized) Australian spotted python, which needs warmth similar to a BP, but isn't a fussy eater.

Good sellers usually provide feeding records with their neonates/hatchlings. Ask.

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Originally Posted by QuesadillaWizard

Thanks for the warm welcome guys! I look forward to being a part of this community. I've been reading around for a while and everyone seems nice and ready to help newcomers to the hobby.

Craiga - Heya! Thanks for the info! I've heard all about how pesky balls can be thanks to my buddy's snake, Ethan. Ethan is THE biggest premadonna of a snake. I've read that as long as they aren't dropping weight like crazy, just let them chill. Especially when it's breeding season and they're scouring their enclosure for sweet babes. Do I have that right? I don't want to ignore something that could be a problem.

You'll be happy to hear that I've been dry-running my enclosure for a few days now to test out everything and borderline obsessively fiddling with the thermostat and my heat gun to make sure it's just right. I've been watching my humidity gauge and continually adding holes and I swapped from aspen to paper towel (at least for now) because I live down south and it gets SO humid here.

That's so true about vet bills! I've got cats and they are very good at randomly developing problems. I just got a raise at work so I should be okay. There is an exotic vet not too far from where my local Repticon is held! :3
!

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Awesome! Sounds like you're well prepared. :gj:

My two cents: go with your gut. If your gut is saying BP go BP. You've done your homework and know what to expect.
...and hey, BPs are the most common snake in the pet trade for a reason.

Here's the list of Reptile vendors that will be in Jackson from what I could tell:

Ballzout Ball Pythons
Frosty Pythons
Midieval Serpents
Outlaw Pythons
P&M Reptiles
McBride Ball Pythons
Rynos Reptiles and Rodents
TCB Reptiles
Pandora Exotic Reptiles
Black Magic Reptiles

I've been hunting these folks up on facebook. Some of their pages are out of date but Ballzout and Frosty seem like good breeders.

Oh! Before I forget! I want to mention that I've gone a bit Extra in that I have both a tub (the one I'm dry-running) and a 20gal long waiting for snakes so I should have a good setup for whoever comes home.

Who is everyone's favorite reptile youtuber to watch?

Bogertoph - Howdy! I think I've heard of that python! Isn't it called the children's python too? Or is that a different small snake?

[CODE][CODE]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2FnxlIWTK3.jpg

Here is the set-up that's dry running at the moment. I haven't put the fake plants or rough stuff to climb on in yet!

Thermo reads high in numbers but it actually clocks about ten below that with my gun.

I support getting the snake you want the most. If well cared for, they can live a long time and you want to make sure it's the one you really want :) You have clearly done your research, set up and tested an appropriate enclosure before getting the animal, and overall approached getting a new pet in a responsible way. I think you'd do great as a BP owner, and of course if you run into any problems, our community is here to help.

When people say BPs aren't a great beginner snake I think that only applies if someone isn't going to put in the time and research for setting up a good enclosure and learning how to deal with typical ball python problems like their feeding. Since BPs don't naturally live outside of Africa, it takes a little more work to accurately simulate the environment there. Corns and kings are native to North America so they can be more forgiving of husbandry mistakes since their temperature and humidity requirements are closer to what is natural in most places in NA. It looks like you already have a good understanding of that though, so I think you'll be fine.

Congrats on being ready to bring home a new noodle, I can't wait to see your new pet! :D

Luvyna - Thank you so much for the kind message! I'm so excited! New snake will be a surprise for everyone, even me! I've honestly felt a LITTLE pressure to get a BP from friends of mine who really love them. I love them too, but there are so many snakes to experience!

Mmmm
$$!’llo





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Originally Posted by QuesadillaWizard

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Bogertoph - Howdy! I think I've heard of that python! Isn't it called the children's python too? Or is that a different small snake?

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No, but a Children's python is very similar & close relative, slightly smaller than a Spotted python. My spotted python was a rescue, actually, from a guy who didn't want a snake that WOULDN'T eat live. :rolleye2: He was fed up with her (she was a yearling) & actually talked about euthanizing her (only not in kind terms), but I talked him into
sending her my direction instead...& she never refuses food, always f/t. :D She's a wonderful (easy) pet, that often likes to bask on driftwood, & is always very alert, but
not a hand-biter at all. These are captive-bred in the U.S.- you don't have to send off to Australia for one, but you may have to look a little harder as they aren't as common as BPs, corns & kings. They need a somewhat warmer cage than a corn, king or rat snake, & a humid hide* will ensure they shed well. I like that she doesn't hide all the time. *this species is apparently found in coastal areas, not desert. Mine is a "granite phase", not that it mattered one bit to me, & she has really nice iridescence too. :snake:

BTW, the name "Children's" came from the last name of the man who discovered them...it does NOT mean they are toys for children, lol...

Bogertophis - Wow! She sounds like a really cool pet. When you say she likes to bask on driftwood, does she need a special light? That's one of the only things I didn't grab in my stocking-up expedition since all the snakes I've had my eye on don't require bulbs, just UTH. I did a quick google on them--very intense but very cool looking snake!

I'm so glad you were able to save her.

Congrats on your upcoming snake! Glad to see so much preparation has happened before your new friend comes home. (Way too many people just don't and that makes me sad...)

In many cases, snakes are like Lays potato chips... you can't have just one! So if you're inclined, you can always get a 2nd snake later down the road of another species if you have 2 (or more) you're really liking. (This coming from someone who now has 19.... shhhh)

BPs are pretty great, even as first time snakes for owners who read up on them and know what to expect and are flexible enough to change things around if something isn't working for your individual snake (i.e. tank isn't working, so try a tub. Or try a smaller tub, etc.).

Something else to keep in mind, you can always order frozen feeders online in bulk and have them shipped. There are a number of companies who do this with good prices and the quality is often better than pet shops. Shipping doesn't even necessarily make the feeders more expensive as many local breeders and stores charge significantly higher prices. Big Cheese Rodents and Cold Blooded Cafe both have flat rate shipping ($29-32 if I remember right) and pretty good rodents.

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pretends2bnormal- Howdy there! Thanks so much! Haha you should have seen me preparing for getting chickens. I was reading books, drawing coop blueprints, etc...

Speaking of--does anybody have any favorite books on snake keeping?

I'll look up those rodent suppliers. The shipping does sound a little expensive BUT it could save me a lot of trouble down the line if something happens where I can't make it to an expo! I'm willing to learn about the new expenses of this hobby. I've spayed so many cats by now, it shouldn't be so bad XD

I'm so grateful for the warm welcome I've received today from everybody!

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Originally Posted by QuesadillaWizard

Bogertophis - Wow! She sounds like a really cool pet. When you say she likes to bask on driftwood, does she need a special light? That's one of the only things I didn't grab in my stocking-up expedition since all the snakes I've had my eye on don't require bulbs, just UTH. I did a quick google on them--very intense but very cool looking snake!

I'm so glad you were able to save her.

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So am I... She is housed in a glass tank*, with UTH under a third of the floor, and I use a red or black bulb (dimmed) in a metal dome fixture over her driftwood, which is parked on top of her warm & humid hides...sort of multi-levels* for her to choose, which she does. She has an unheated hide & water bowl on the other end. She is a very good climber & I've also used a wide home-made "ladder" tilting at an angle for her to climb & lay on...she makes herself comfortable with whatever she has. :D She's a funny little snake. (you could also use a CHE for overhead heat...whatever you use, it must be regulated)

*she's in a taller 30 gal. type glass tank...eventually I might move her to a 40 gal. but she's fine for now yet...I've had her for 10 years so far, so she's 11 now. Her tank is topped with a screen top (I make my own of wood & "hardware cloth" welded wire), & I cover much of the top to help contain warmth in colder months, but I don't let my house get real cold either...house thermostat is set to 70* in cool months, & 80* in summer. She uses all the areas of her cage...it offers her the options she needs.

Another plus for spotted pythons: they never need to eat rats! Nothing bigger than a small adult mouse.

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Originally Posted by QuesadillaWizard

pretends2bnormal- Howdy there! Thanks so much! Haha you should have seen me preparing for getting chickens. I was reading books, drawing coop blueprints, etc...

Speaking of--does anybody have any favorite books on snake keeping?

I'll look up those rodent suppliers. The shipping does sound a little expensive BUT it could save me a lot of trouble down the line if something happens where I can't make it to an expo! I'm willing to learn about the new expenses of this hobby. I've spayed so many cats by now, it shouldn't be so bad XD

I'm so grateful for the warm welcome I've received today from everybody!

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The shipping isn't too bad when you consider what 25 (or more) rats adds up to at $4 ea vs $2 ea plus $30 shipping. (That's $100 vs $80 for the same thing). It really depends what the expo vendors charge and even at shows in the same area for me that can be pretty different. Just worth running the math on it to know you're getting the best deal.

Also, not all rats and vendors are equal. The pictures below are one of the rats I bred vs one of the popular frozen thaw suppliers (can't recall which and I've gotten from a few; both pictured frozen). There are certainly worse quality rats than the "bad" one here, looking at how plump and stocky the build is vs the lanky, lean looking appearance of the other. (Seen a few at expos that were nearly emaciated rats being sold.. poor looking rodents are often fed poorly, amount or quality, which makes them lower nutrition for the snake that eats them later.)

One of mine
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d5852388c9.jpg

Identical weight one from a commercial seller
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...553194b210.jpg

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

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Also, not all rats and vendors are equal. The pictures below are one of the rats I bred vs one of the popular frozen thaw suppliers (can't recall which and I've gotten from a few; both pictured frozen). There are certainly worse quality rats than the "bad" one here, looking at how plump and stocky the build is vs the lanky, lean looking appearance of the other. (Seen a few at expos that were nearly emaciated rats being sold.. poor looking rodents are often fed poorly, amount or quality, which makes them lower nutrition for the snake that eats them later.)

One of mine
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d5852388c9.jpg

Identical weight one from a commercial seller
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...553194b210.jpg

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Several things come to my mind in comparing these feeders. The scrawny "commercially-produced one" almost looks like it was sick, not just under-fed, & there's just no
way to know which. :( On the other hand, most domestic rodents are fed much better than wild ones, so they tend to make our snakes a little fatter than they would be
in the wild, where they'd also be getting a lot more exercise having to hunt & catch their own food. Like us, snakes are healthier when they don't over-eat, but I'd rather
lengthen the time between meals or feed smaller prey than feed rodents that look like that scruffy "commercial" rat, wondering about it's health & what it was exposed to.

Bogertophis! - She sounds like she's had a fantastic life with you! And you sound pretty handy with building. Ideally I'd like a nice custom cabinet to keep my snake(s) in. I don't have access to powertools besides my drill, but I hear Lowes will cut wood for you if you give them measurements. Or maybe I could rope my carpenter nephew into helping me out with his table saw.

I'll keep my eyes peeled. If I see a spotted python, I'll try to snap a pic for you!

pretends2bnormal - Oh wow that second mouse is kind of pitiful looking. Like a bag of potato chips that's mostly air. Thanks for showing me this, it didn't occur to me that some mice would have more calories than others. Yikes! I will take a good look at the feeders at the expo and remember these pictures. If they're empty potato chip bags, I'll get a few to get my new friend started while I wait for a shipment of better, meatier mice!

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Several things come to my mind in comparing these feeders. The scrawny "commercially-produced one" almost looks like it was sick, not just under-fed, & there's just no
way to know which. :( On the other hand, most domestic rodents are fed much better than wild ones, so they tend to make our snakes a little fatter than they would be
in the wild, where they'd also be getting a lot more exercise having to hunt & catch their own food. Like us, snakes are healthier when they don't over-eat, but I'd rather
lengthen the time between meals or feed smaller prey than feed rodents that look like that scruffy "commercial" rat, wondering about it's health & what it was exposed to.

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The crazy thing is, this is one of the top 3 brands recommended for buying online (since those are who I've bought from). Every weaned rat in the pack looked like this, though they were packed quite flat and tightly together which can account a bit for the weird shape I think. But it is clearly an older rat that should have had more size to it at that age based on the limbs and such.

If you want to get into fattening or not, just keep in mind most snakes would never encounter a wild Norwegian rat (the species that domestic rats are). Theyd see brown rats in the US, African soft fur rats, gerbils, mice of varying species, etc. And that accounts for different nutritional profiles as well.

Always best to watch and not overfeed regardless of prey type, though, I very much agree. But wild vs captive feeding has more factors than just wild rodent diets since they're not typically the same species being compared.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by QuesadillaWizard

Bogertophis! - She sounds like she's had a fantastic life with you! And you sound pretty handy with building. Ideally I'd like a nice custom cabinet to keep my snake(s) in. I don't have access to powertools besides my drill, but I hear Lowes will cut wood for you if you give them measurements. Or maybe I could rope my carpenter nephew into helping me out with his table saw.

I'll keep my eyes peeled. If I see a spotted python, I'll try to snap a pic for you! ...

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I've been making my own "tank tops" for many years...not hard, & yes, Home Depot or Lowes (& most other lumber stores) will cut wood for you, so if you can nail or turn a few screws to fit the sides together, that's about all there is. ;) I staple the screen ("hardware cloth") onto the wood frame, then add screen molding (to match the pieces of wood in the frame) over that so it looks professional & doesn't give me splinters or jabs from the screen. I have a few tools (drill, jigsaw, etc) but I'm no carpenter. I used to finish furniture (bought unfinished) or re-purpose other furniture (turned some into snake enclosures too)- I like being creative. You can also just buy screen tops in Petco. You'll need metal shears to cut the hardware cloth if you ever decide to make a tank top.

I hope you get to meet a spotted python. I actually think the normal markings are more attractive than the "granite phase" btw, but for mine, it was about getting her out of that guys house to a safe place where she could eat f/t in peace. Even though she was air shipped to me across the state, she was looking for food & ate 3 f/t pinkies the same afternoon she arrived. She was looking for more too, but I made her wait. :cool: And of course I didn't handle her at all, I just watched as she settled in to explore & digest.

BTW, I made a deal with the guy...since he was going to kill her anyway, but I had no way to be sure she was healthy (since she "wasn't eating"), I told him "what do you have to lose? I'll pre-pay the shipping & if she is OK- healthy- I'll buy her from you" so that's what we did...he shipped her & I paid him after. Of course I also rubbed it in what a great appetite she has. :D (I couldn't help myself.) I'd done some reading on these...in the wild, they feed on tiny lizards first, & only "graduate" later to small rodents, as they gain skill & size...that's why she didn't want live pinkies, she was instinctively afraid of them...it's normal for spotted pythons.

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Originally Posted by QuesadillaWizard

pretends2bnormal - Oh wow that second mouse is kind of pitiful looking. Like a bag of potato chips that's mostly air. Thanks for showing me this, it didn't occur to me that some mice would have more calories than others. Yikes! I will take a good look at the feeders at the expo and remember these pictures. If they're empty potato chip bags, I'll get a few to get my new friend started while I wait for a shipment of better, meatier mice!

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Both of the rodents pictured were weaned rats, not mice, just for reference.

It isn't that one is more or less calories. They both have similar bone and meat content and all of that which would make up similar calories, but poor diet may mean lower levels of vitamins and minerals in the rats or mice which can impact the snake in the long run.

Vitamin A for example is related in most animals to skin and eye health. Lacking that could correspond in a dog to a rough coat, excessive shedding, etc. In a snake it may play a role in poor sheds or rough looking scales. (I have a theory that it may be related for some people who have snakes who shed poorly on a regular basis despite perfect husbandry and humidity for the species .. no way to really test it of course.)

A poor diet fed to the rodent could result in a feeder deficient in some nutrient(s) that over a long period of time might cause issues for the snake.

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One more day until the expo! If I felt prepared before, I feel extra prepared now thanks to everyone who's talked to me so far! I wanted to thank yall again.

I'm going to try and nab a digital scale the next time I'm at the store so I'll have that to add to the feeding logs--oh yes, there will be logs. Length, weight, type of food, behavior during feeding and all that good stuff. I already know not to try and feed my new buddy for about a week after I get them home but it doesn't hurt to be prepared!

I even think I have a breeder picked out. They listed everything they're bringing to the show and they look like some nice snakes! I'm still going to look around at what everyone has first though.

I FORGOT TO UPDATE WHOOPS.

https://www.deviantart.com/users/out...8/IMG_4705.JPG
https://www.deviantart.com/users/out...8/IMG_4705.JPGhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...cs/trinket.jpg

Here she is! A little lesser BP who hatched in May. I spoke to a very kind breeder (Frosty Pythons) who I had met once before. This girl was already on frozen. The breeder suggested I get an older snake that had already made the transition and I thought that was kind of her, as the ones I was eyeing hadn't yet.

I got her on Saturday and finally handled her a little today. I let her crawl from my hands back into her enclosure. Once I finished handling her, she stayed out of her hides and has been exploring for nearly an hour. Previously she just moved between her two hides during the nights. It's so nice to see her checking everything out.

I know she'll get bigger than if I'd gotten a boy, but I accepted that when I decided on her. I know I'm in for a ride and a lot of interesting experiences! I think they'll make me a good reptile keeper. I feed her tomorrow for the first time.

Her name is Trinket!

What a cutie! That's a beautiful Lesser :) You made a good decision to get a BP that is already an established F/T feeder, that will save you a world of trouble. Sounds like she is settling in well, best of luck with feeding her for the first time!

Congratulations on a well-thought out new pet...I agree that especially for your first snake, one that is a little older & more established (especially one that's eating
f/t) is a huge plus. You made a beautiful choice, & welcome Trinket- don't mind us talking about you, lol. :gj:

She took the first mouse from me today! Snatched it like a champ and swallowed it down. I'm proud of her! She did drag it through her water dish first though :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by QuesadillaWizard

She took the first mouse from me today! Snatched it like a champ and swallowed it down. I'm proud of her! She did drag it through her water dish first though :rolleyes:

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Bonus points for creativity, that's all. ;)