Did I take our relationship a few steps back??

So my ball is 2 months old. I've had him for 3 weeks.
I've started handling him briefly for 5 min like 4x a week. He is always hissy when I initially pick him up. Last week, he would try to squirm away once in my hands. This week, he's hissy when I touch him to pick him up but once in my palm, he chills unmoving, and I gently let him slither back into his hide. Every time I lift his hide, he seems super freaked out. He twitches and tries to hide his head.
He's eaten 3x for me, consecutively. Last time he ate was Saturday. Just now, I tried to feed him. I lifted his hide, he looked nervous, twitched and tried to hide his head. I showed him the mouse, he looked interested, but didn't eat. I gave up, and I tried putting the hide back, but I accidentally placed it on his body and he hissed.
Did that take our relationship back?? I really want a chill calm non-hissy non-biting snake.

Snakes feel the MOST threatened when we approach them &/or pick them up. I disagree with handling any snake for just 5 minutes...they've not had time to
relax & learn you are safe to be with. I realize that some others may promote the idea of handling snakes "briefly", but I know what works for me, & has for many
years of keeping many kinds of snakes. Keep in mind that the only thing that picks up a snake in the wild is a predator that's about to EAT them...& remember how
BIG you are compared to your snake. :O That's how he feels... You're lucky he's been eating for you, but you definitely could be making this worse instead of
better doing what you've been doing. Slow down...if all you have is 5 minutes, don't handle him. Wait until you have at least 30 minutes, sit down with him & take
it slow. Snakes learn our scent & touch, they don't really recognize or identify us using vision, so that's another part of your problem. I don't expect your snake to
"stay mad at you"...they live mostly "in the moment" but they do learn & form impressions, so it's time to re-think what you're doing because it's not working. He's
been terrified of you, whether or not you realize it. Try to be more patient.

So you're saying handle him for 30 min for like 2x a week?

Why move his hide? Just place the mouse right outside his hide opening and give him some privacy if feeding pre-killed or frozen thawed.

I did that but he tended to miss.

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Originally Posted by siwueofk

So you're saying handle him for 30 min for like 2x a week?

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That would be better than what you've been doing, IMO. And never for at least a day+ after he eats, or he may regurgitate his meal.

Also best to leave a snake alone when they're in their hide. Most have success feeding f/t when their snake is peeking out of the hide in the evening hours, & they don't
pick the hide up...you should let the snake emerge from the hide & grab the prey that you're making it look as if it's just casually walking by where the snake is hiding, to
elicit a strike & wrap from the snake. The less you interfere with your snake when feeding, the better it's likely to go. Your success in feeding so far may be due to the
snake being young & more desperate for food, & it's better to adjust what you're doing while he's still eating for you, than when he starts refusing due to stress & fear.

I think you said you've only had him for 3 weeks? So you've been doing an awful LOT* of handling during that time, & despite that he's been eating pretty well. I'd say
you've just been very lucky he's been eating for you at all; new snakes are best not handled, they are not domestic animals, they rely on instincts and the most important
thing in keeping snakes is to work with what is natural & instinctive for them. It's not about you wanting a "pet"...it's about you learning to keep him successfully & with
patience, most snakes tolerate handling...many even seem to enjoy it, but not right away. Feeding is job 1. (*translation: too much handling)

I don't ever see him peeking his head out of his hide though....
True about the handling, my rationale was that I wanted to get him tamed down before he gets big with a nastier bite.

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Originally Posted by siwueofk

I don't ever see him peeking his head out of his hide though....
True about the handling, my rationale was that I wanted to get him tamed down before he gets big with a nastier bite.

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By now he's probably afraid to peek out...any minute the "roof may lift off again"!? :rolleyes: But BPs are ambush predators that prefer night time, & maybe you just aren't up
late enough? or he ducks back in when you come in the room...he sounds fearful enough to be doing that. Snakes can feel our footsteps, especially if you don't have a
concrete floor. You probably turn a light on too...

You know, we hear that a lot..."tamed down before he gets big..." but snakes just don't grow that fast. Many wish they would, but they just don't. You have to do things
at a pace your snake can handle...he is still a wild, instinctive animal even if captive-bred, & he has no concept of time. It just works better if you don't push them...you're being the equivalent of a "stage mom or dad". ;) Put him first, try to read his moods & needs (this gets easier) & with any luck, you'll be in sync. :snake:

When a snake refuses food, he may also be going into a shed. You might wait at least a week or two (to see) before offering food again. Then (if he's not in "blue") try to
entice him with f/t prey wiggled very slightly just outside his doorway* (of the hide he's in). But whether or not he's going into shed now, I can tell you from all that you've described that you're over-stressing your snake, & accomplishing the exact opposite of what you want: a confident snake that doesn't feel threatened by you & is fine to hold.

*And for best results, make sure the prey is warmed to seem lifelike, right before offering. BPs rely on heat-sensing pits the most.

I’m by no means an expert but when I had my Ball Python I would handle him no more than twice a week and I personally would not get him out of his enclosure unless I had a solid 30-60 minutes I could dedicate to him. I would even let him chill with me while I played video games. Just give your BP time.


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He's already shed and pooped for me.
If I have 30 min to handle him, how should I approach to get him in my hand?
He hides all day.

Also he tends to poop in his cold hide, how can I do spot checks without lifting his hide? He spends most of his time in cold hide.

In my opinion, if you have only had him for 3 weeks you should have let him have tie to acclimate, like a week or two to settle in, then feed, wait two days and handle. The most important part of handling a snake is spending quality time with them. Quality over quantity! For example, it doesnt matter if you hold them 5 times a day 5 minutes each, because thats added stress of changing environments and handling for short periods of time without letting them get used to being held. Instead hold him for 1-2 hours, dont take them out unless you have the time to put into them! Let your snake get used to you and its surroundings, and showing them you can be trusted. Especially since your snake is young, its very important to form these good impressions now, especially about handling. This means light handling while still firm enough they feel supported, and giving them a limb to curl around, imagine youre a branch of a tree! Even just letting them ball up in your lap or on your chest, a warm place in your body while you watch a show or play a video game, like mentioned above.
Quality time with snakes is so important! Remember your snake isnt just a pet, but a partner! they live for a long time so you have to be patient and respectful in building a relationship. My ball python, Ravioli, loves to watch me play video games or watch movies and shows with me! We are best friends and i usually can tell exactly how hes feeling from looking at him, hes very polite about asking for things. With the amount of time ive put into him, he knows he can trust me and ill listen when hes uncomfortable or doesnt want to be held or wants to be put back. Patience and listening is key with these kind animals
Note on the poop/urates, if your snake doesnt strike its ok to take them out of their hide to remove the poop, just watch for signs of stress. Its usually best to wait until theyre out of the hide though (this will be at night for ball pythons, so if it means staying up later than youre used to im sorry :( but as they get more used to you, you can take them out no problem. You can also combine cleaning with holding time so youre not just taking them out and putting them back in. find what works best for you and your snake!)
Best wishes! I hope you two become good friends! :) and dont be afraid to ask for help online, good on you for coming onto a forum!

When should I start handling him for long terms??
He might be stressed now. How long of time should I give him before I try to take us to the next step of our relationship?

Is it stressful for him if I lift up his hides to check temps like once or twice a day???
Otherwise, I've been doing everything that you guys told me to change, and I think it's been going well.

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Originally Posted by siwueofk

Is it stressful for him if I lift up his hides to check temps like once or twice a day???...

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Think about it...would you mind if a stranger entered your home several times a night to look around while you're in bed? -Of COURSE it's stressful for him...why are you
needing to check temperatures so often? Are you using a thermostat to regulate your heat source? Did you take the time to set up and test the cage (for temperatures)
before moving the snake in? I'm guessing not...that's why we constantly suggest that keepers set up & test their cages for a week before bringing a snake home. ;)

As everyone has mostly stated, slowing down your enthusiasm and expectations is for the best. After owning a BP for 2 years and experiencing many challenges, I know for certain you will learn much more than your snake will. Eventually you'll be so in tune you'll be able to basically know the exact day your snake will poop, eat, shed, etc. Just relax, because with you relaxed, your snake will relax. Everything will become so much easier.

I'll give you a new owner perspective. I purchased my first BP on June 30th, breeder said she was 8 to 12 weeks old (I first weighed her on 7/10 at 105 grams). This was over a weekend and I was told her feeding day had been on Monday, but to wait a week to let her settle in. I have 8 & 10 year old kids, so it was nearly impossible to wait an extended amount of time. I'm pretty sure we had her out almost every day the first week (and quite often since) which goes against most of the recommendations here. We always wait 2-3 days after feeding though. She was very similar to yours, would hiss a few times and then curl and tuck her head for several minutes of holding before "exploring". Thinking it could be quite scary to just remove her hide from over her, I started tapping on it lightly a few times before I removed the hide to "announce my presence". I think it helped and is my standard procedure. The other thing I did was always slide my hand up under her from behind when curled or hissing. But honestly, other than some hissing the first few weeks, I think it has gone exceptionally well. Sometimes she is a little shy for the first few minutes, but other than that has gone really well. She's now 16-20 weeks old, has eaten amazingly well every week going from a live hopper the first week, to F/T mice, and tonight I gave her the first F/T rat pup. Just weighed prior to feeding at 149 grams.

Oh, one of the main reasons I responded... in my super limited experience, I totally agree with the first post - 5 minutes is not even worth your time and is working against you. Those first couple weeks, mine wouldn't even uncurl after 5 minutes, if I put her back then there would have been no progress. It's after they calm down and "play" in your hands that you are creating a relationship and progress. I've since been working on touching her head and face which is also going really well. After she's out a bit, I can rub her cheeks and pet her head, which would have resulted in a "jump" or "flinch" a while back.

Good luck!

Lifting hides is always tricky business. I only ever do it at night when they're naturally active and with the lowest amount of light possible. I take it off slooowly so i don't spook them. Once its off i just stay still and talk softly to them (i'm not sure if talking actually helps, but my logic behind it is that if i were a real predator, i certainly wouldn't be making so much noise on purpose). After a minute, i'll slowly reach over and stroke a part of their midsection outside of strike range. This usually makes them tense up, but imo its better to "announce" that you're going to pick them up, then to surprise, them with it. Once they're in hand, they typically relax after a few seconds and start roaming around my shoulders. Everyone else is right though, 5 minutes isn't enough time to let the panic subside. It would probably do better to have 2 long sessions per week.

If i need to feed any of my BPs while theyre in their hide, i'll use the tongs to kind of make the prey walk past the opening a few times. It makes them go "Whazthat?" and they'll start to peek outside the hide. I'll keep letting them "sneak" up on the rat until they have enough body length to strike and constrict. Sometimes they'll be facing away from the hide door, so those are the times i sloooowly lift one edge of the hide juuuust enough for them to peek from under it to spot the prey. Works almost every time!