Thriving vs surviving...

Hey all, I'm writing this with a bit of sadness and a heavy heart. But I figured I'd share and get some thoughts from my forum friends...

My Borneo STP is an awesome snake. I love the guy to death. But...

I feel as if he's surviving in my care and not thriving. He's not a great eater, unless I offer live. And I hate having to feed live. I understand it's a part of keeping snakes as pets, but I just hate watching animals die. F/T prey comes to me packaged like food. I see it the same way I see my food. Where feeding live, I see animals, not food.

That, combined with the fact that I can't find a reliable live feeder source within an hour of me, makes feeding an issue. The only place I can find feeders regularly is Petco. At $5 per mouse I have to buy at least 5 since the mice are all under 20 grams so it costs me a fortune to feed him.

I just feel like I'm failing him. All of my other snakes, as well as the snakes I kept in the past, all thrive(d) in my care.
And since he's not thriving I feel like a failure and as if he'd be better off in the care of somebody better equipped to provide for him.

I've already spoken to N E.R.D. and they're happy to take him back for store credit.
I'm seriously considering rehoming him. I really don't want to, but would keeping him here be selfish?

This is the first time I've felt like I'm failing one of my pets (aside from when I rehomed them all years ago because my alcoholism and drug addiction wouldn't allow me to properly care for them). And I feel horrible.

I'm leaning towards rehoming him, but definitely haven't made any final decisions.

What are your thoughts?

Have you tried transitioning to f/t using fresh killed? I had to do that with my first ball python years ago. While I certainly didn’t enjoy killing those first couple mice, he transitioned right over to f/t after that.
I feel ya, man. These can be super tough decisions to make


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Have you tried transitioning to f/t using fresh killed? I had to do that with my first ball python years ago. While I certainly didn’t enjoy killing those first couple mice, he transitioned right over to f/t after that.
I feel ya, man. These can be super tough decisions to make


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That's actually the one thing I haven't tried.

I think this choice is completely up to you and how you feel about the animals well being. It takes a big person to see that fact that they can't properly provide for an animal so I give you major props for realizing that and admitting it not only to yourself but to everyone else. Honestly if I myself were in your position where the breeder (N.E.R.D.) is willing to take the animal back that's probably the route I would go. And since they're giving you store credit they have a ton of other animals that are way easier to care and provide for. You've already taken the first step in realizing there's an issue. And that's a big step. Whatever you chose to do I'm sure it will be the right choice and it has to be your choice not ours.

That's certainly an awful position to be in and I can definitely sympathize. Before I finally got my spider BP off live, I felt pretty bad about it too. I don't have as much issue feeding live nor sourcing it, but he has a wobble and had gotten a close call with one before he swapped; a claw or glancing bite (never figured out which) right behind an eye; surface damage to a scale or two, but too close for comfort with his aim being subpar.

It is a serious choice to rehome or keep, and I think that as long as you're willing to keep trying and work with him it wouldn't be selfish as long as he's still in good health. If it goes beyond your ability to keep him healthy despite efforts to work with him, that's the line I'd draw.

Would you mind giving a bit of a refresher about the details?

I've seen bits and pieces, but feel like I'm missing a few things.

How big is he and what is his age?

How many refusals have you pushed before giving in and doing live? (I.e. if he refused 3 f/t rats week after week, you then gave live week 4)

Is he on mice because you can't source live rats or because he refuses live rats?

What's his enclosure like? Dimensions, tub vs PVC vs glass, etc. What temps do you use? I know I've seen some variation in different STP communities where individuals respond stronger the differences in temperature more than other species.

Does he have hides or deep substrate?

Have you ever tried feeding f/t chicks? Or just mice/rats?

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

That's certainly an awful position to be in and I can definitely sympathize. Before I finally got my spider BP off live, I felt pretty bad about it too. I don't have as much issue feeding live nor sourcing it, but he has a wobble and had gotten a close call with one before he swapped; a claw or glancing bite (never figured out which) right behind an eye; surface damage to a scale or two, but too close for comfort with his aim being subpar.

It is a serious choice to rehome or keep, and I think that as long as you're willing to keep trying and work with him it wouldn't be selfish as long as he's still in good health. If it goes beyond your ability to keep him healthy despite efforts to work with him, that's the line I'd draw.

Would you mind giving a bit of a refresher about the details?

I've seen bits and pieces, but feel like I'm missing a few things.

How big is he and what is his age?

How many refusals have you pushed before giving in and doing live? (I.e. if he refused 3 f/t rats week after week, you then gave live week 4)

Is he on mice because you can't source live rats or because he refuses live rats?

What's his enclosure like? Dimensions, tub vs PVC vs glass, etc. What temps do you use? I know I've seen some variation in different STP communities where individuals respond stronger the differences in temperature more than other species.

Does he have hides or deep substrate?

Have you ever tried feeding f/t chicks? Or just mice/rats?

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Thanks for the reply...

He's about 2 1/2 years old. He's around 1,100 grams right now and looking a bit thin since his most recent 300 gram poop/pee.

I'll typically wait around 4 weeks to offer live. So usually 4 offers of F/T before offering live.

I've tried both mice and rats when offering F/T. He's never taken a rat. He'll VERY occasionally take ONE F/T mouse (only about 21-23 grams) and only ONE.

I feed live mice because I can't find rats within a reasonable driving distance.

He's in a 3 foot Neodeshas enclosure. He's been in there since he graduated quarantine about 15 months ago. I've played with temps a bit, but haven't seen any difference in behavior or feeding with different temps. His hot spot is 87-88 and his cool side is around 79-80 with an ambient in the 84 range. He's got enough substrate to burrow, but hardly ever does. He's got 2 RBI hides that fit him well. He usually pushes all the substrate out of the hides and lays on the bare enclosure bottom inside his hides.

I've only tried mice and rats.


Thanks again for the reply. Im open to just about any ideas.

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Originally Posted by Toad37

I think this choice is completely up to you and how you feel about the animals well being. It takes a big person to see that fact that they can't properly provide for an animal so I give you major props for realizing that and admitting it not only to yourself but to everyone else. Honestly if I myself were in your position where the breeder (N.E.R.D.) is willing to take the animal back that's probably the route I would go. And since they're giving you store credit they have a ton of other animals that are way easier to care and provide for. You've already taken the first step in realizing there's an issue. And that's a big step. Whatever you chose to do I'm sure it will be the right choice and it has to be your choice not ours.

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Yeah, ultimately it's up to me. I just figured I'd get some thoughts.
Having an animal in my care that's not thriving is new to me. So I've got a bit of a moral conundrum bouncing around in my head.
I'm glad the folks at N.E.R.D. are willing to help. And obviously I'd have PLENTY of options to spend store credit.

I'm really good at beating myself up. So I was questioning whether or not I'm overreacting or justifiably concerned that I'm failing him.
I figured some outside opinions may help me to sort through my crazy little brain, hahahhaha.

Thanks for the reply.

It's not fun to have to breed your own rodents to supply a finicky eater that needs live...you have enough to do already, right? Also miserable to be stuck buying
over-priced live prey if you cannot get him switched, & not all snakes cooperate, or if they do, it's in their "own good time".

What I think is that you also don't need something that's weighing you down psychologically, as this situation obviously is.
And since you "hate watching animals die" I don't think you'll enjoy trying to transition him to fresh-killed prey either.

We all need to re-assess our priorities now & then...I commend you for being honest with yourself, & I guarantee I wouldn't think less of you or anyone who realizes
they've made a mistake and acquired the "wrong" pet for their circumstances, so whatever your decision, I support it.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's not fun to have to breed your own rodents to supply a finicky eater that needs live...you have enough to do already, right? Also miserable to be stuck buying
over-priced live prey if you cannot get him switched, & not all snakes cooperate, or if they do, it's in their "own good time".

What I think is that you also don't need something that's weighing you down psychologically, as this situation obviously is.

We all need to re-assess our priorities now & then...I commend you for being honest with yourself, & I guarantee I wouldn't think less of you or anyone who realizes
they've made a mistake and acquired the "wrong" pet for their circumstances, so whatever your decision, I support it.

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Thank you.

Yeah, it's definitely renting a lot of space is my already cluttered head. I keep trying to convince myself that if I do re-home him it's because "we just weren't the right fit for each other" rather than feeling like I'm failing him...but easier said than done.
It's just so foreign to me to have an animal not thrive in my care. I obviously don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I'm no rookie either. I don't feel like it's a matter of "not being qualified" for the species, but a matter of not having the appropriate resources to provide the "extra" that he requires.

I’ve never kept bloods or short tails, but I have read that some of them don’t like as much of a hot spot as other python species. Have you tried a lower warm side temp with more of a low 80s ambient?


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We all fight many battles in our life...and while I advocate doing the best we can, I also don't think we have to win them all either. It's not that you're failing him,
it's that reality is failing you. Stop beating yourself up...no matter how appealing he is, he's apparently a better pet for someone in other circumstances, & another
will be just as lucky to have you instead. I see no harm in this...but there is potential harm for him if you wait too long.

Please don’t beat yourself up. You are proving that you are great pet owner by reaching out like you are and weighing your and your snake’s options. You went the extra miles, you are NOT a failure.

I am very impressed that NERD will work with you. You are obviously striving for Juice’s well being. My hat is off to you. You don’t need to apologize to anyone. You are one of the best caretakers here as well as the one of the most knowledgeable and helpful.

Best of luck with your decision, you’ll make the right one.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Thanks for the reply...

He's about 2 1/2 years old. He's around 1,100 grams right now and looking a bit thin since his most recent 300 gram poop/pee.

I'll typically wait around 4 weeks to offer live. So usually 4 offers of F/T before offering live.

I've tried both mice and rats when offering F/T. He's never taken a rat. He'll VERY occasionally take ONE F/T mouse (only about 21-23 grams) and only ONE.

I feed live mice because I can't find rats within a reasonable driving distance.

He's in a 3 foot Neodeshas enclosure. He's been in there since he graduated quarantine about 15 months ago. I've played with temps a bit, but haven't seen any difference in behavior or feeding with different temps. His hot spot is 87-88 and his cool side is around 79-80 with an ambient in the 84 range. He's got enough substrate to burrow, but hardly ever does. He's got 2 RBI hides that fit him well. He usually pushes all the substrate out of the hides and lays on the bare enclosure bottom inside his hides.

I've only tried mice and rats.


Thanks again for the reply. Im open to just about any ideas.

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So, I'll preface by saying, I'm definitely not an expert... but I've read and seen a ton of advice from people with a lot of breeding/keeping experience with STPs in another group. I have a bit of a hobby reading all of the problem threads and watching the advice and what winds up working.

First thing that stands out is honestly the temps. From what I've seen with problem feeder and/or poor temperament snakes posted there, the temps usually are a match for yours or higher to match a BP up to 90. Most of the really successful breeders on there are religious about a hot spot being 85 at the most, if offered at all. Most prefer to do 82-84 ambient and nothing else.

What all have you tried for the temps? Any thing like those ^? (78-82/84 ambient, max hot spot 85)

When you offer f/t, does he usually assume a hunting position before you offer? (Head peaking out of hide. In my blood, I'll also see a slight lifted chin off the floor when he is extra alert)

When thinking about blood/stps I try to think of them as large, extra shy ball pythons. All the same "tricks" can be required along the lines of no lights, you staying out of sight, and wandering a f/t feeder past the hide or nose. My guy always strikes when he sees the tail end, for example, right at the hips/rear. He will not strike prey hanging from the tail nor head on unless he is extra amped up that day.

Are there any similarities you can think of about the times he DID take a f/t mouse? Positioning, timing (either time of day or # of weeks without eating or without offering?), etc. Any tiny thing at all might be a clue for what to try to replicate.

I can't recall where, but I have read somewhere that bloods at least eat birds as prey pretty regularly in the wild, so some will take to chicks more easily f/t than other prey. Especially if you have other snakes who can eat chicks if it doesnt work out, that is probably worth trying. I'm not 100% sure how good of a staple they are for STPs, but if he decides they're awesome, it gives you a stronger motivating smell to use to scent rats and try to trick him.

It might be worth a try to give him a "feast", a large live meal maybe 1 extra mouse, (but not so big it risks regurge) and then not offering anything at all for a few weeks. Give him time to digest it and to get thoroughly hungry. Watch for hunting/ambush behavior. My impulse is to say 3-4 weeks skipped, no live and no f/t offerings. Then bring home 1 live mouse and leave it in the room in a cage, scent the room all day if you can, and then offer f/t as realistically as you can. Grab and walk it by the scruff, follow the paths you usually see the live prey follow. If you offer a non-mouse, try to get some bedding to thaw in for scenting as well as the feeder.

If try 1 fails, it may be worth doing a few weeks in a row live to "fatten him up" to a good weight then repeat the above and every time he won't take it, skip offering 2 more weeks. Watch his body condition but I expect most healthy STPs can handle 2 months skipped without much issue. (Also live mice can generally be returned, so your scenting mouse can be taken back if it fails each round.)

What area are you in? I can ask around and see if there's anyone breeding privately up near you. PM me if you don't want to post that specifically publicly.


Apologies for the word vomit, and I didn't see other replies before. I'm more than willing to brainstorm ideas if you want to try, but 100% understandable if you want to rehome and move on to get some peace of mind back. It is very stressful when things don't work regardless of what you try.

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Don't beat yourself up and don't take it personally brother. We can only do our best and we know that you strive to give ALL your critters the best care. I agree with Bogertophis, we can't win em all. I don't mean to sound callous but I have an eat or starve mentality when it comes to my animals if I know they're not ill. It's my responsibility to offer food and it's their choice to eat. I'll try scenting and braining the prey to get a young animal going, and have fed live to break a long fast, but that's about as far as I'll go. I believe that given enough time they'll either eat what's available or they can starve. I've had a couple of animals go a few months but eventually they all eat. If you don't like the tough love approach then I'd rehome him and find a more cooperative critter but don't lose any sleep over it. You did everything you were supposed to and you shouldn't have to spend a mint because he refuses to eat rats or f/t prey. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

So, I'll preface by saying, I'm definitely not an expert... but I've read and seen a ton of advice from people with a lot of breeding/keeping experience with STPs in another group. I have a bit of a hobby reading all of the problem threads and watching the advice and what winds up working.

First thing that stands out is honestly the temps. From what I've seen with problem feeder and/or poor temperament snakes posted there, the temps usually are a match for yours or higher to match a BP up to 90. Most of the really successful breeders on there are religious about a hot spot being 85 at the most, if offered at all. Most prefer to do 82-84 ambient and nothing else.

What all have you tried for the temps? Any thing like those ^? (78-82/84 ambient, max hot spot 85)

When you offer f/t, does he usually assume a hunting position before you offer? (Head peaking out of hide. In my blood, I'll also see a slight lifted chin off the floor when he is extra alert)

When thinking about blood/stps I try to think of them as large, extra shy ball pythons. All the same "tricks" can be required along the lines of no lights, you staying out of sight, and wandering a f/t feeder past the hide or nose. My guy always strikes when he sees the tail end, for example, right at the hips/rear. He will not strike prey hanging from the tail nor head on unless he is extra amped up that day.

Are there any similarities you can think of about the times he DID take a f/t mouse? Positioning, timing (either time of day or # of weeks without eating or without offering?), etc. Any tiny thing at all might be a clue for what to try to replicate.

I can't recall where, but I have read somewhere that bloods at least eat birds as prey pretty regularly in the wild, so some will take to chicks more easily f/t than other prey. Especially if you have other snakes who can eat chicks if it doesnt work out, that is probably worth trying. I'm not 100% sure how good of a staple they are for STPs, but if he decides they're awesome, it gives you a stronger motivating smell to use to scent rats and try to trick him.

It might be worth a try to give him a "feast", a large live meal maybe 1 extra mouse, (but not so big it risks regurge) and then not offering anything at all for a few weeks. Give him time to digest it and to get thoroughly hungry. Watch for hunting/ambush behavior. My impulse is to say 3-4 weeks skipped, no live and no f/t offerings. Then bring home 1 live mouse and leave it in the room in a cage, scent the room all day if you can, and then offer f/t as realistically as you can. Grab and walk it by the scruff, follow the paths you usually see the live prey follow. If you offer a non-mouse, try to get some bedding to thaw in for scenting as well as the feeder.

If try 1 fails, it may be worth doing a few weeks in a row live to "fatten him up" to a good weight then repeat the above and every time he won't take it, skip offering 2 more weeks. Watch his body condition but I expect most healthy STPs can handle 2 months skipped without much issue. (Also live mice can generally be returned, so your scenting mouse can be taken back if it fails each round.)

What area are you in? I can ask around and see if there's anyone breeding privately up near you. PM me if you don't want to post that specifically publicly.


Apologies for the word vomit, and I didn't see other replies before. I'm more than willing to brainstorm ideas if you want to try, but 100% understandable if you want to rehome and move on to get some peace of mind back. It is very stressful when things don't work regardless of what you try.

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Thanks again for the reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to put together such thorough replies. Juice and I both appreciate it.

I have tried lowering temps, as that's what I have read. I ran lower temps for around 60 days and noticed no difference, unfortunately.

I'm also running ambient temps with all my snakes right now. I am not running any belly heat except for my KSB this time of year. So for the past 2 months or so he's been kept at ambient temps about 82-84 with a cool side around 77. Inside his warm hide I haven't recorded any temps above 86 during this time.

When I offer F/T he is definitely in hunting position. He'll have his head out of the hide, slightly elevated and curious. He'll give it a sniff and move on. I've tried dangling, zombie dancing, etc...but my typical method is to walk it past his hide holding it by the scruff behind the neck.
With live, he's practically pressed up against the glass once he smells the prey on the room.
I've tried "tricking" him by offering F/T while live mice are in the room. No dice. I've tried feeding him a live mouse followed by F/T (other live mice still in the room for scent). No dice.

If I'm remembering correctly, the handful of times he took F/T he took them off tongs walked by held by the scruff.

I've tried waiting him out on multiple occasions, filling him up and waiting as long as 6 weeks before offering live. No dice.
I've tried waiting him out after a shed (that's worked for me with BPs on food strikes) I've heard of many people having success switching from live to F/T using that method as well as breaking feeding strikes. No dice.

I haven't really noticed any rhyme or reason to the times he has taken F/T. It seems completely random to me.


Thanks again, please don't apologise for being thorough. I tend to ramble too, but I feel like it helps to be thorough.

I'm in Ayer, MA. North Central part of the state about 20 mins from NH border and 30 minutes west of Boston.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Thanks again for the reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to put together such thorough replies. Juice and I both appreciate it.

I have tried lowering temps, as that's what I have read. I ran lower temps for around 60 days and noticed no difference, unfortunately.

I'm also running ambient temps with all my snakes right now. I am not running any belly heat except for my KSB this time of year. So for the past 2 months or so he's been kept at ambient temps about 82-84 with a cool side around 77. Inside his warm hide I haven't recorded any temps above 86 during this time.

When I offer F/T he is definitely in hunting position. He'll have his head out of the hide, slightly elevated and curious. He'll give it a sniff and move on. I've tried dangling, zombie dancing, etc...but my typical method is to walk it past his hide holding it by the scruff behind the neck.
With live, he's practically pressed up against the glass once he smells the prey on the room.
I've tried "tricking" him by offering F/T while live mice are in the room. No dice. I've tried feeding him a live mouse followed by F/T (other live mice still in the room for scent). No dice.

If I'm remembering correctly, the handful of times he took F/T he took them off tongs walked by held by the scruff.

I've tried waiting him out on multiple occasions, filling him up and waiting as long as 6 weeks before offering live. No dice.
I've tried waiting him out after a shed (that's worked for me with BPs on food strikes) I've heard of many people having success switching from live to F/T using that method as well as breaking feeding strikes. No dice.

I haven't really noticed any rhyme or reason to the times he has taken F/T. It seems completely random to me.


Thanks again, please don't apologise for being thorough. I tend to ramble too, but I feel like it helps to be thorough.

I'm in Ayer, MA. North Central part of the state about 20 mins from NH border and 30 minutes west of Boston.

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Well, I'm not sure what you consider too far to drive and am not familiar with the area. From a query in the FB group I mentioned, there's a breeder who does rats in Becket, MA, but I think that's pretty far from you. There's also a website for Jabberwock Reptiles in Winchester MA, near Boston I think, that sells live rats and mice but I didn't see a listed price. Might be worth calling and asking their prices.

http://www.jabberwockreptiles.com

If you get him taking live rats, it may make better odds to go straight to f/t rats without needing to mess with scenting; only one variable live vs dead. And you could give pre-killed a try that way.

I would also consider trying f/t chicks or other less conventional prey. Some snakes have unusual tastes, haha.


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I don't know how big your Cali king snake is but mine will happily take f/t chicks, if you decide to go that route with your STP to see if he'd rather eat those than mice or rats. I get mine from local free-range chicken farmers. Rabbit kits are another option; you may find a local breeder near you who keeps them for meat and who would give you the stillborn kits.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I don't know how big your Cali king snake is but mine will happily take f/t chicks, if you decide to go that route with your STP to see if he'd rather eat those than mice or rats. I get mine from local free-range chicken farmers. Rabbit kits are another option; you may find a local breeder near you who keeps them for meat and who would give you the stillborn kits.

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Rabbit kit? What is a kit?

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

Rabbit kit? What is a kit?

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A baby rabbit is called a kit, which is short for kitten.

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Originally Posted by sur3fir3

Rabbit kit? What is a kit?

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Baby rabbit, they can be sold as kits at various weight sizes.

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It's a tough choice to make but kudos to you for the self-reflection.
I gave up a crested and bearded dragon years ago because I felt they were not thriving with me (they were surviving fine but it is different), it's sad but now I feel like it was the best decision for them at that time.
Best of luck with whatever course of action you take!

I think we always to have reflect on the care we are giving our animals. Kudos to you for being reflective and caring what's best for your animals and not just you.

For what's it worth, I recently got a new motorcycle (after recently getting into riding). It's a sport bike and everything I dreamed of riding would be like. However, I want to be on that bike every free minute I have. I also have health issues, and there are a few days I've said, "I'll get to the reptiles later. It's so nice out and I want to ride," and then gotten super tired and fallen asleep or not felt well enough to be cleaning tanks etc. I do not feel I am neglecting my reptiles, but also feel that I need to put them first as they are living creatures, and they need to be the priority, always. Today, I implemented a new policy. Dirty tanks and animals that should be fed comes before riding. I did some tank maintenance this morning and couldn't get on the bike until tonight for a short ride.

I digressed, but my point is we always need to be evaluating what we are capable of, in all facets of life. I have 13 reptiles and 4 dogs. I took on that responsibility and enjoy them immensely and take pride in caring for them. If it becomes too much, then I either have to buck up and do what's right for them, and forgo other passions, or I need re-evaluate reptile keeping, the amount I have, what it means to me, and have an obligation to find good homes, etc. if it comes to that. For me, I just needed a slight attitude readjustment. All good now.

Now, on to your conundrum. For me, feeding live rodents (live bugs to the lizards doesn't bother me) is a deal breaker. I can't do it anymore. I hate killing the rodent, especially in that way, and I get anxious about the rodent hurting my snakes. I also really get creeped out by rodents. All my snakes happily take F/T and I made sure of that before getting them (not a 100% guarantee, but helps).

I think if you are this conflicted, finding a good home for your blood, or even giving him back to NERD, makes sense.

I've had to give animals away and it sucks. However, to be frank, it sounds like he is not thriving with you.

Understand I say that with love and respect. I know you take great pride in properly and effectively caring for your animals. You started this thread because you have doubts you are doing best for him. I think you already know the answer, and it sounds like the two of you are not the best fit possible. You BOTH deserve a better fit.

I've considered trying to rehome my borneo boy more than a few times as he is very similar to yours in only wanting live. Close in age and size to yours too. He will take live rats or mice instantly, but I don't have access to them unless I drive 2 or more hours. I've bred feeders in the past when I had multiple young snakes but really don't want to start again for one snake, it's a lot of work and now I have much more predatory cats. Every other short tail I have including his sister eats like a champ, he would too as long as I only offered live. Dead he's got next to no interest, now he'll take one about 1/4 of the times I offer and actually eat it, occasionally he grabs and then drops later. It is very frustrating. I've tried various prey as I've got plenty of ft options but he won't take rabbit or quail or chicken at all. If it were me, I'd take the offer and return him.

I had rehomed a cat that I really wanted to keep a few years ago. He was a fat boy but cute, 8 year old tuxedo cat who was given up at the shelter because his dad was going to a nursing home and could not take him. I really wanted it to work out between him and my resident cat, who was about 11-12 years at the time. Both were fixed, had similar personalities, and we tried introducing them several times but my resident cat was a bully. He kept harassing him to no end for a year and no one in the house was at peace. I could not rehome the resident cat due to his age, health and temperament. There is a happy ending though: the 8 year old was rehomed a week later after I had to give him up. They still have him as of last year (My resident cat is now gone to the big catnip in the sky).

It is a heartbreaking decision to give up a beloved pet. I would try every way you can to make it work. Think about it, sleep on it some more. Once he is gone, he is gone. You could later down the line get a similar personality snake or better, which is a good possibility. For now, because choices haunts us all, do your best and eventually your heart and mind will come to one agreement, and that decision will be a lot easier to make then.

On the side note, feeding live does suck butt. I hate it when I had to do it. Recently my husband bought 4 live mouse pinkies for his spiders to eat. They refused. I forced my husband to call a local vet for advice because killing them in any way seems so cruel, but dying without warmth and food is just as bad. The vet recommend the most humans method to put them down was by freezing. I don't know how much of that is true, but I have my husband the ultimatum to never feed live again if he could offer insect feeders to his spiders instead.

ok i will layoff the Juice jokes and photochops.

looks like alotta good advice and supportive posts in this thread already. i would just add that i don't have a Blood or Short Tail, but recall that a breeder said they are swamp snakes and actually prefer damp swampy enclosures. maybe that's once aspect of husbandry to research and try? otherwise J sounds like a picky eater/has preferred prey. having plenty o' Balls, i know the whole spectrum. i converted most to f/t rats, i have some mousers and ones that take live. i just live in an area where i can easily source live and other foods. i don't feel like a failure that i haven't been able to convert some and you or anyone else should not feel that way either. i accept that these animals have a personality and preference. IMO some snakes and animals u just might not be able to convert - whether live feeder to f/t foods or mean snakey to puppy dog tame. at that time, u have to make a well thought decision to keep them and accept those quirks or let them go. <3

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Originally Posted by Ax01

ok i will layoff the Juice jokes and photochops.

looks like alotta good advice and supportive posts in this thread already. i would just add that i don't have a Blood or Short Tail, but recall that a breeder said they are swamp snakes and actually prefer damp swampy enclosures. maybe that's once aspect of husbandry to research and try? otherwise J sounds like a picky eater/has preferred prey. having plenty o' Balls, i know the whole spectrum. i converted most to f/t rats, i have some mousers and ones that take live. i just live in an area where i can easily source live and other foods. i don't feel like a failure that i haven't been able to convert some and you or anyone else should not feel that way either. i accept that these animals have a personality and preference. IMO some snakes and animals u just might not be able to convert - whether live feeder to f/t foods or mean snakey to puppy dog tame. at that time, u have to make a well thought decision to keep them and accept those quirks or let them go. <3

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Just FYI, the "swampy" info is part of the original assumed husbandry and has since been found out as detrimental to their health over time. It is one of the issues that led to the reputations of bloods as cranky (this one was contributed to as well by higher hot spot/ambient temps) and RI-prone. The high humidity and wet enclosures resulted in the RIs, but everyone assumed it was from low humidity and made the issue worse. They're less prone to scale rot, so they didn't show that issue, so it was felt the wet substrate was correct.

Most keepers have more success when they're kept similar to BPs for the humidity. Around 60% normally and up to ~70% in shed.

Just want to put the more current info out there. :)

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A really good source of info for Blood/STP husbandry is the Blood Cell website: http://bloodpythons.com/

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