Need help with a scared baby BP

Hi Everyone,

My name is Heather and I'm new here. We have one Het Pied BP, who is just over 1 and doing amazing. We also acquired a Pied BP about 2 months ago who is approx, 4 months old now. She is so so scared. She comes out of her hides and roams her cage in the evenings and has been ok when we check on her in hr hide, but we haven't brought her out much beyond that as she's so tense, and coiled, ready to strike. Then she flees and tries to get away. We have left her alone to let her get used to life in our home and she's done great until the last couple weeks. 2 weeks ago, we attempted to bring her out, and held her in the palm of my hand for about a minute, and then out her back. When I put her back she struck me for the first time. A week later, she struck the glass as I was looking at her. We've always been gentle and deliberate around her tank and she is out enough that we are not a surprise to her. She is just quite a bit more wild than our 1 year old Angus.

I'm looking for advice as to what we should do. I'm prepared to leave her be for as long as she needs it and if she's not going to be a snake we can hold, then so be it... I just worry about her 'fulfillment', for lack of a better word. When it's time we will move her to a larger tank, and can set up more stuff for her, but is she going to be happy in her terrarium all the time? Is there something we should be doing or continue to not do, lol? She eats like a champ, is a damn predator and husbandry is great.

Many thanks,
Heather

Hey- You're about to get asked a ton of questions. Lemme help ya get ahead of them so the experienced guys can go straight to helping you:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...t-Questionaire

I discovered this sticky a few days ago and I wish I had used it in my requests for help :)

1. How long have you had your ball python?



2. How old (or how big) is your snake?



3. Does it eat on a regular schedule?



4. How long since its last meal?



5. What type/size prey is being offered?



6. How often do you offer food?



7. What type and size of enclosure does it live in?



8. What are you using as substrate? If it has depth, how deep is it?



9. What type of heating do you use?



10. Do you use a thermostat to control temperatures?



11. What do you use to measure/monitor temperatures?



12. What are the surface and ambient temperatures in the enclosure?



13. What is the average humidity level?



14. How many and what type of hides does the snake have?



15. Is water readily available at all times?



16. Does the snake live alone or does it share the enclosure with anything else?



17. How often and for how long is the snake typically handled?



18. Does the snake have any medical history (old injuries or illnesses)?



19. Do you have any other reptiles? Have you brought in any new reptiles recently?



20. Is there anything specific or unique about your situation that we should be aware of?

Without having all the (above) details, let me just say try to relax & be patient: snakes, even if captive-bred, are "wild" animals, meaning they rely on their instincts.
In the wild, those instincts include the fact that anything that picks them up is a predator that's about to eat them, so it takes time for them to overcome their fear of
us. Add to that the fact that when you brought this snake home her whole world changed & she has no idea how or why that happened...can you imagine how weird
that must feel? So for now, I'd personally be delighted that this snake eats & (I assume) is outwardly-healthy; keep in mind that for snakes, just as in humans, stress
has a negative effect on the function of their immune system, so the best thing to do with a new snake is to back off & let it settle in. Just because that only seemed
to take 2 weeks with another snake doesn't mean the same will be true of this one, or the next one. Snakes have their own personalities, & their own history that they
cannot tell us about, & handling is just not "job #1", but eating is. If snakes all reacted exactly the same, what would be the fun of keeping them? There'd be nothing
to figure out. ;) In my personal experience, some of the ones I've had to work the hardest on are the ones I enjoy the most.

As far as your snake striking out at you when you tried to put her back, try to imagine yourself in her place: picked up by a giant, then a loss of traction (being let go
of) even while that giant is still hovering nearby...:O In my experience, most snakes feel safer when held close to us, because in the wild, they naturally try to hide,
to blend in for safety. When they feel most exposed is when we approach them, and again when we put them back. It takes time for a snake to overcome their instincts
& understand they are actually safe with us...& it takes as long as it takes. :snake:

So :welcome: Heather...

Ok here goes:

1. We have had this ball python for about 2-2.5 months now. She is about 4 months old
2. I don't know her current weight but she is approx 20 inches long
3. She eats regularly once a week (Sundays) and has never not eaten
4. I picked her up last mid week, this is the first time in 7 weeks that I have held her. That was 2 weeks ago. We were trying to give her more time to settle in.
5. We are currently feeding her 1-2 hoppers. And she ate her first small adult this past weekend.
6. We only offer food once a week
7. Her terrarium is 30" wide x 15" Tall x 15" deep. She has two hides (they look like caves, cold and warm end), and some fake greenery which she seems to really like.
8. Aspen Substrate, it works wicked in our really dry climate, it's about 2.5" thick as we don't need the under tank heating right now.
9. Currently I have a heat lamp on her, for 14 hours, on a timer. In the winter we also use the under tank mats on a thermostat, and we check temp with an infrared thermometer. Both snakes (separate tanks) avg 88-92 on the warm side and right now, around 80-84 on the cool, depending on the temp outside.
10. Avg humidity is low, we live in a climate dryer than Nevada... so it's around 30%. When they go into shed, I kick it up to about 50% and have never had a shed problem with either of my snakes.
11. Both snakes live in separate enclosures, with nothing else, the enclosures are side by side. For now, Angus' (the other BP) is in a much larger tank. As she grows she will get a new one as well.
12. We take Angus out several times a week, but this little one, we are discussing has only come out 4 times in the last 2-2.5 months. She's also been vet checked and was in great health. We have an awesome exotics vet here in Calgary.
13. She has been our newest addition. We have Angus who is just over 1 and doing awesome, and the new little girl Aria.
14. We purchased her from a breeder, and i don't have any medical history, other than the one I've established, but the vet said she looked great, she was just young...


Thank you for the reply! She eats like a champion. And in 1/2 the time it takes Angus, so i have no concerns there. We really just want the best for her, so we are happy to leave her be and let her settle. I realize the answer is different for all of them, but should we wait 6 months? Just let her be really comfortable... Be able to predict most of what we do? Their terrariums are in our living room/kitchen, and we live in a loft so it's wide open.

I'm heading out shortly, so unfortunately I don't have time to be thorough right now but read through that and caught one GIANT red flag...

You need to follow very strict quarantine procedures when bringing any new reptile home. Since your two snakes are side by each you need to seperate them into seperate rooms and start a strict 90+ day quarantine on BOTH animals now.
You'll want to seperate them ASAP and begin the quarantine process ASAP.

Dont be offended if any of these guys seem to jump on you for stuff, their ultimate concern is for the snakes, and their tones of voice don't come over well over text. I don't think anyone here is trying to present their messages as an attack on you.

Here is the. Quarantine sticky: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...antine-process



I'm pretty new to reptiles myself, so feel free to take the following with a grain of salt:

Aspen is controversial in the Ball Python world due to its poor humidity holding characteristics and the fact that it gets moldy and gross pretty quickly if you spray it regularly. In HIGH humidity environments, some people decide to use it BECAUSE it doesn't hold humidity.

Ball Pythons live in a naturally humid environment and they will usually seek out those humid environments as that is where they feel comfortable. There is a chance that your older snake doesn't mind much or is used to it by now, but your new snake is stressed out that it has nowhere humid to go.

Its great that you have been able to ensure good sheds, but you may wanna consider switching to cypress or coconut fiber substrates. Cypress is probably superior due to its antifungal and antimicrobial characteristics, but we use coconut fiber in our tanks. Some people also use a mix.

These substrates are naturally moist, and they also hold moisture very well.

I recommend considering a humidity-hide as well, like the ones Zilla and other manufacturers make. I would also recommend upgrading to a digital hydrometer if you haven't already, as those tend to be more accurate.

Last thing. Again, take all this with a grain of salt if you wish, as its not like I've been keeping reptiles very long.

Ball pythons are not basking animals, and they tend to seek belly heat over direct light. They tend to come out at dawn or dusk in the wild, which is why they usually stay in their hides all day. A heat lamp is not going to heat up underneath a hide very well. If you get rid of one heat element over the summer, I recommend that you ditch the heat lamp and stick with a UTH on a thermostat.

If you are having problems maintaining ambient air temperatures on the cool side, I recommend keeping both heat sources and putting them on independent thermostats. Perhaps consider switching to a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter) and leaving it on a thermostat permanently. I have my thermostat probe for my lamp hanging a few inches above the substrate right along the cold side glass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ranulf

Dont be offended if any of these guys seem to jump on you for stuff, their ultimate concern is for the snakes, and their tones of voice don't come over well over text. I don't think anyone here is trying to present their messages as an attack on you.
.

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Ummmmmm...where on Earth did this come from? Nobody has said anything at all that could be seen as even remotely offensive or as an attack.

I just don't get it...:confusd:

I didnt't take anything as offensive, however, sometimes when being bombarded with information it can feel like an attack so I just wanted to reassure.

Sorry if I offended you in turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ranulf

I didnt't take anything as offensive, however, sometimes when being bombarded with information it can feel like an attack so I just wanted to reassure.

Sorry if I offended you in turn.

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You didn't offend me at all. It's a public forum where people ASK for help. Answers and suggestions were provided. No bombardment, just answers.

HNECdn, I agree that it would have been much safer to have quarantined your new snake from your other one for at least 3 to 6 mos. but at this point and with
only the 2 snakes, I personally think that ship has sailed. IE. at this point I wouldn't bother...hopefully you got lucky this time & if you add any more snakes, by
all means do a quarantine...the only thing sadder than having a new pet that's sick & dies is sharing that tragedy with your other pets too. Not to mention that
vet bills mount up quickly treating multiple snakes.

Now & then I've been known to capitalize a word or two for emphasis (since written words can be misunderstood as to intent), but I'll vouch for Craig's desire to
only be of help here. This is not generally a pugilistic forum, we're all here to help. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

HNECdn, I agree that it would have been much safer to have quarantined your new snake from your other one for at least 3 to 6 mos. but at this point and with
only the 2 snakes, I personally think that ship has sailed. IE. at this point I wouldn't bother...hopefully you got lucky this time & if you add any more snakes, by
all means do a quarantine...the only thing sadder than having a new pet that's sick & dies is sharing that tragedy with your other pets too. Not to mention that
vet bills mount up quickly treating multiple snakes.

Now & then I've been known to capitalize a word or two for emphasis (since written words can be misunderstood as to intent), but I'll vouch for Craig's desire to
only be of help here. This is not generally a pugilistic forum, we're all here to help. ;)

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You know, I hadn't really thought of that, but you're probably right. The time to quarantine has already come and gone. I was thinking better safe than sorry, but you're right. At this point it's probably too late.

I am not offended at all, and understand we are all busy. Thank you for the consideration though, I do appreciate it.

So I went and rechecked my substrate and I'm using Cypress, not Aspen... When I read the reply, I thought, hang on a second.... Didn't I choose Cypress for all those specified reasons?? Turns out I did! Thank you for the info.

Question then about QT... Is the main concern transmission of disease and parasites, or are there behavioural considerations too? Being new to this, I obviously thought wrong that separate enclosures and vet checked for mites was decent protocol, so again, thank you for pointing that out. I am however, curious as to whether having them side by side increases overall stress...

Heather

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

You know, I hadn't really thought of that, but you're probably right. The time to quarantine has already come and gone. I was thinking better safe than sorry, but you're right. At this point it's probably too late.

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I'm really glad you guys said something as I would have never known otherwise. I'm happy that we have been lucky but definitely don't want to count on luck going forward. Someday my daughter (currently 11) wants to have a lot more reptiles, so this is good for her too. Keep the info coming!! lol :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HNECdn

...

Question then about QT... Is the main concern transmission of disease and parasites, or are there behavioural considerations too? Being new to this, I obviously thought wrong that separate enclosures and vet checked for mites was decent protocol, so again, thank you for pointing that out. I am however, curious as to whether having them side by side increases overall stress...

Heather

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Yes, mainly the transmission of diseases (some quite fatal & capable of wiping out all your herps!) as well as mites, which can spread some of the diseases, & also kill
"just" by the loss of blood they suck out (dehydration leads to organ failure quicker than many realize).

Most snakes are compatible in nearby (never the same) cages, but NOT all: king, milk & indigo snakes are some that many other snakes recognize as predators by
their scent instinctively, so you wouldn't house them in the same room as other snakes native from the same areas -I don't think BPs are going to notice them- they
aren't "neighbors", for example...but North American native snakes would be stressed...things like corn snakes & rosy boas would "know them as a danger".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HNECdn

I'm really glad you guys said something as I would have never known otherwise. I'm happy that we have been lucky but definitely don't want to count on luck going forward. Someday my daughter (currently 11) wants to have a lot more reptiles, so this is good for her too. Keep the info coming!! lol :)

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Unfortunately, you don't know you've been lucky yet. Snakes are fantastic at hiding illness and it's definitely too soon to know for sure both animals are healthy.

And please know I'm not trying to be rude, but quarantine is a pretty basic step. This is why it's so important to put in ample research and due diligence before bringing animals home. They rely solely on us to survive. So we owe it to them to learn all we can to provide them with the best lives possible.

If you got that snake from a breeder and it came out of a smaller enclosure (rack tub) then I would say the transition into a much larger enclosure is likely causing you problems.. The snake doesn't feel secure. Usually they stop eating too but it doesn't sound like you are having that issue. The aspen has nothing to do with it.. I have had multiple snakes on aspen for a long time without any issues..

This should be a pre req for anybody that is new to housing and keeping snakes!

let's get the ball rollin'

So the snake eats, poops, and sheds well enough, eh? That all sounds great!

She strikes at you when you handle her. Yeah, I can see that being unpleasant.

Most snakes will only strike when they are in their enclosure, typically when being pick up out of the enclosure. Once they are out, no problem, until they're put back. She very well may be scared being in a larger enclosure than she's used to, she may just be a shy BP, maybe something else, or a combination.

My advice, and take it with a grain of salt, you need to muscle through this one. It's little known but snakes are born with only a certain number of bites. Once used up, they can't bite anymore! Best to use them all up now while she's a hatchling!

LOL, but in all seriousness. She probably just needs to get used to human interaction. Approach confidently, maybe use a hook to take her out, and keep handling. Not too often so as to stress her, but at lest 2x a week I'd say. If she stops eating, stop handling. If she keeps eating, keep handling.

My suspicion is that after a short while she'll settle in and get used to being handled and will be no problem. She may also eventually grow out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JRLongton

...My suspicion is that after a short while she'll settle in and get used to being handled and will be no problem. She may also eventually grow out of it.

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:devilish: Except for the ones that develop a real taste for blood, Bbwhahahahahaha. :snake2: (-also kidding)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:devilish: Except for the ones that develop a real taste for blood, Bbwhahahahahaha. :snake2: (-also kidding)

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My cinnamon sub adult and my cinnabelly hatchling enjoy how I taste. Even my 2200g sterling takes shots at me anytime she can. I think it's a real thing.

let's get the ball rollin'

Haha!! Thanks for all the info guys... I really appreciate it.... The good news is that we don't have any real room to get more snakes, and be able to keep them into adulthood. Just not enough room for multiple larger terrariums.

But... that all being said, this site is a wealth of information and I am grateful...

H.

I'm happy to see you've found us and you're eager to learn. This forum really is an invaluable resource. That being said, be sure to cross reference any and all information you read before putting anything in action. The drawback to the world wide interweb is that it's a breeding ground for as much false information as there is quality info.

I wish forums like this were around when I started out.

Feel free to ask any and all questions you may have, we're happy to help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

...I wish forums like this were around when I started out...

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So do I- and especially when I had the BPs. Oh well...