I want an Albino

I want an Albino BP but i dont want to pay an arm and a leg. Where do u think i can find 1. Or any Morph

i think you better start saving your money. you can't really find one for less than the current average market price and if you do you should run far far away from whoever is offering it to you.

Yup..

Alternately, if you have a lot of patience, you can buy 'het' animals, which are ball pythons that look normal, but when bred together can produce albinos. They are considerably cheaper.

Like how much would i be looking at???

For Hets right now a pair is around 700$-800$. Males are around 150$. You could always just get a male het and breed it to a normal female. Then breed the female babies back to the male het and then you'll have a chance of getting an albino. It take around 6-7 years to get one.

I've seen pairs for $650 in several ads. Each year the price goes down a little.

You can also buy one male het and several female 50% possible hets. You'll get a good chance of producing albino (the more females you have, the better the odds) with less money put out.

So i would have to breed i couldnt buy??

Yes unless you can afford a straight out albino.

just my $0.02

You keep asking how much, this is the pricing of just one breeder, Ralph Davis from his Birthing Records pages:


Albino males - $2,500.00 each, Albino females - $3,000.00, het Albino males - $250.00 each , het Albino females - $1,000.00 each

Im getting confused wat is a Het???

A het is a normal looking ball python but carries the gene for albino( if ur talking about a het albino). if you breed an albino to a normal all the babies are het for albino. if you breed 2 het together you get 25% albinos 25% normals and 25% hets. I think thats right. so basically it is a normal looking ball python but carries the genes for albino.

Those are the odds. There's no gurantee you'll get all of those with every clutch :)

I just want an Albino where should i look

Actually if you breed two hets you get 25% normal, 50% het and 25% albino.

Well, if you can afford a $2000 snake, there are plenty of albinos for sale on fauna classifeds and on kingsnake.com classifieds.

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Originally Posted by Air23Jordan

Im getting confused wat is a Het???

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Heterozygous snakes carry the gene for the homozygous (visible) morph. The albino trait is a simple recessive gene and there are many different ways to get one.

You can buy a homozygous albino --- $2000.

You can buy a heterozygous pair and breed them together. --- $900 (+3-4 years time)

You can buy a heterozygous male, and breed her to a normal (wild appearing) female. Keep all the female offspring, and breed the het male back to all the females when they reach breeding maturity in about 3 years. --- $150-200 (+6-7 years)

You get get possible hets for a little cheaper, but there's no guarantee that they are actually heterozygous for albino.

I'm not going to get into genetics completely, because there are so many places out there to read about it, but there are lots of possibilities when breeding hets. It also seems to me like not only the cheapest way to go about obtaining a homozygous morph, but also the most rewarding. So, keeping in the theme of this post.... Seeing a white and yellow snake poking out of an egg --- PRICELESS. :)

Here are some links for genetics of BP's.

(http://www.newenglandreptile.com/care.html - Scroll to Genetics)
(http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/matrix/squares.asp)

Sorry, no offence intended but I can't resist making a few minor corrections:

"you can't really find one for less than the current average market price and if you do you should run far far away from whoever is offering it to you."

The only way you could have an average market price with no prices less is if everyone sold them at the exact same price. If there is any variation in the price there will be some less than the average, to average out with the ones more than the average. So you are right if you meant to say that everyone charges the same price and beware IF anyone doesn't fall in line but in my experience there is some variation in the price.

"A het is a normal looking ball python but carries the gene for albino( if ur talking about a het albino)."

"Heterozygous snakes carry the gene for the homozygous (visible) morph."

Both posters technically correct if you are limiting your conversation to albino but I think with all the co-dominant and potentially even completely dominant mutations around it would be best to remember the wider definition of heterozygous - having an unmatched pair of whatever gene you are talking about. Remembering that a pastel is heterozygous for the pastel gene (while not being normal looking) and a super pastel is homozygous for the same gene helps when you start trying to figure outcomes of breedings involving more than just recessive mutations.

Yes absolutely.. just most morphs are simple recessive. I was giving a simplistic description.

i have seen a het albino pair for 500$ and they had good feedback on boi

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Both posters technically correct if you are limiting your conversation to albino

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Well Randy, that is exactly what this thread was about ... albino ... as in the subject "I want an Albino". Why the need to bring co-doms into it at all?

-adam

I really hate to be a downer and all, but I really think you need to get some more experience under your metaphorical belt. Stick with raising up your snake, and adequately caring for it for a year. Meanwhile save your money and maybe by the time your ready you'll have the cash ready. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

I really hate to be a downer and all, but I really think you need to get some more experience under your metaphorical belt. Stick with raising up your snake, and adequately caring for it for a year. Meanwhile save your money and maybe by the time your ready you'll have the cash ready. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

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*Stands up & applauds Tigerlily*

Very, very well said!

K~

Well said Christie. Actually I was also wondering how your ball python is doing now. Things settling in? Do you know if it's a male or female yet?


~~Jo~~

but duuuuuuuuuuuuube i just want an albino!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Why the need to bring co-doms into it at all?

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Because the incorrect belief that "het" means normal looking gene carrier is so prevalent in ball python circles that it needs to be corrected every time it pops up. With most new morphs being some type of dominant we need to get past recessive only thinking to simplify the process of predicting outcomes. The sooner people start understanding genotypes the better.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Because the incorrect belief that "het" means normal looking gene carrier is so prevalent in ball python circles that it needs to be corrected every time it pops up. With most new morphs being some type of dominant we need to get past recessive only thinking to simplify the process of predicting outcomes. The sooner people start understanding genotypes the better.

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So it's your job to run around the internet correcting people? Pretty arrogant if you ask me.

-adam

I'm not really sure what to think, but I do know for a fact that in humans their is "marker" traits for albino carriers. That person will have whitish hair and poor eyesight along with easy to sun burn skin. The person will also have other albino related health problems without actually being albino. This is proven, so I'm sure that their could be some kind of marker trait in snakes too. Although it would more likely be health traits and not a "marker".

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

I'm not really sure what to think, but I do know for a fact that in humans their is "marker" traits for albino carriers. That person will have whitish hair and poor eyesight along with easy to sun burn skin. The person will also have other albino related health problems without actually being albino. This is proven, so I'm sure that their could be some kind of marker trait in snakes too. Although it would more likely be health traits and not a "marker".

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There are certainly people that believe some het albinos carry a "marker". I've seen it in some of my hets, but not consistently enough for me to get excited about ... I've also seen it in my normals.

I definitely believe that "hets" can be markerd and have my own theories for markers in other morphs and morph combinations, I just don't feel that there's any real evidence to prove that a reliable marker exits with enough certainty to be usable. And some of the speculation that I've seen is just ridiculous.

-adam

It would be cool if they came with a neon sign painted on their arse.

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

It would be cool if they came with a neon sign painted on their arse.

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No it wouldn't, because I can only afford 50% poss het females. ;)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

So it's your job to run around the internet correcting people? Pretty arrogant if you ask me.

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To me it's less arrogant to help people understand the meaning of important works like "average" and "heterozygous" than to feel that big breeders are a race apart beyond question or that discussions to try to figure out what they aren't ready to tell us will hopelessly confuse newbies who couldn't possibly understand in time to go ahead and buy a spider.

To andwer Keno's Question



My snake is doing fine. He is about 2ft long, and he is a very aggressive feeder. Only thing is the shed. He has had 2 sheds but the first 1 was incomplete, the second was a lil better but still incomplete. I cant seem to get the humdity to stay up. The temp usually is between 85-93. Maye is you guys could give me some advice that woiuld be great.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

To me it's less arrogant to help people understand the meaning of important works like "average" and "heterozygous" than to feel that big breeders are a race apart beyond question or that discussions to try to figure out what they aren't ready to tell us will hopelessly confuse newbies who couldn't possibly understand in time to go ahead and buy a spider.

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I think that has to be the best run on sentence that I have ever read! ;) I don't think I understand a word of what you are trying to say, but it was fun to try and read??

What makes you think that people need help understanding what "heterozygous" means? I thought that the explanations in this thread were perfect when discussing the topic at hand, which was albino ball pythons. To me, it didn't seem like you were trying to "help" at all ... it was more like you were correcting someone that didn't agree with your theory .... arrogance at it's finest.

In polite society sir, people will ask when they need help. Correcting someone that says something that you don't agree with is considered rude.

Who said anything about spiders in this thread? You're just all over the board aren't you?

-adam

Since you claim to be having trouble Adam I will try to help you understand my post. I do have a tendency for long sentences so thanks for the reminder to shorten them. Also the typo of "works" for "words" didn't help.

The definition of "heterozygous" is a little beyond an opinion. I suppose you could argue that the definition of any word is just the consensus opinion at the time. However, the ball python community is too small to alter the definition of "heterozygous" through our narrow use of it. The word has been used too long and by too many other groups. I’ll admit it takes some work for someone just coming in to get up to speed on genetics. By consistently correcting mistakes like the belief that heterozygous only applies to recessive or the misuse of “dominant” for “homozygous” I’m trying to help this process along.

Our homozygous lethal spider debates are a classic example of where I believe you are more arrogant than I. Your posts indicate that big breeders are very different than novice snake keepers in their capacity to understand complex genetic subjects. I clearly spelled out that even if spider did turn out to be homozygous lethal it didn't necessarily mean that heterozygous spiders would have any problem much less tend to drop dead. I accept that this might have caused some confused newbies to put off buying spiders. However, did you really want customers that where so uninformed?

Your posts indicate that potential buyers should do private research with the breeders to find out about any potential pitfalls a new morph might have. I take offence to the paternalistic attitude that we should patiently wait for the big breeders to decide what buyers need to know. It looks to me like they are waiting to exhaust every possible chance there isn’t a problem. Don’t the consumers deserve to know if there is any evidence there might be a problem and to discuss that evidence amongst them selves? It would be great if we could get more participation and numbers from the breeders but as you have pointed out many times it doesn’t happen in public.

Hey you two.. cool it!

Everyone.. a het ALBINO ball python looks... normal!

That's because it is a RECESSIVE trait.

There are other kinds of mutation than RECESSIVE!

-Class dismissed. That's it in a nutshell.. moving on, please! ;)

Totally agree Shelby!

-adam