40 gallon breeder tank 4 ball python setup

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i am currently in the process of building A new enclosure for our soon to be a ball python, out of a new 40 gallon breeder tank we got from PETCO on there dollar a gallon sale. I am just looking for input from people that have made an enclosure from an aquarium like what I have. My main concern is heating and humidity, we live in wa state where humidity it so so , not to high, not super low. As u can see in the pics I have had it both ways as far as orientation, on its original bottom and also turned on its side.

i am looking to have it on its side and building the hinged door for ease of access and cleaning, but if necessary I can keep it upright and be able to build a heat lamp setup for ambient temps.

my ideal substrate would be ground coco fiber, but I’m open to newspaper as well as coco fibers or aspen shavings, in which I already have.

i would love to hear tank setup suggestions as well as heat setups, my original plan was a uth 30-40 gallon exo terra heat pad w/ thermostat and hydrometer which u can find on exoterra.com, water dish , several hides and thermometer. My main concern is gonna be ambient heat as our house temps run about 65-70 degrees. I am also looking at a rhp but this seems to be a little outta my budget

any input or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Because of the supports, I'd either keep the tank vertical as designed, or add some supports along the glass-only corners if you decide to turn it on it's side.
(You could just use right angle wood molding from local hardware store & paint it black to match...make sure it's the same identical thickness though.)

Humidity: tends to disappear no matter what your local area has, since cages & our homes are heated or A/C'd...the humidity gets pulled out, but easy to raise it
with the right substrate that holds it. I'd skip newspaper or aspen, they don't help.

Ambient temperatures: keeping your house that cool will be a challenge to keep this tank warm enough with UTH alone. You never want to heat the whole
floor of the cage, of course, but you might heat a bigger proportion of the floor with good thermostat control. (like half the floor) Also, I'd plan on INSULATING
this tank...styrofoam & many other materials can work well. In fact wood is great too, cork tiles, whatever...I'd cover the sides, back, & bottom (leaving room for
the UTH to safely "breathe"). Many prefer plastic tanks but I'm not one of them, & plastic loses heat too...mainly ppl like the humidity retention, but that's only
because they have minimal air-flow, something you can do with a glass tank as well.

The main thing is to test this out thoroughly with heat running BEFORE you try to house your new pet...to leave time to shop for or order additional products
if needed to achieve the right temps. year-round.

This tank is just gonna be the starter tank, in the near future I am planning on going to a t10-or t11 inclosure from ap. But I need to start somewhere so this is going to be my starter tank and my pythons 1st home with us.

so I am now convinced to keep it vertical and finish the top with a hinged door for access, but I like the idea of insulting this with wood or cork or styrofoam for heat retention. Thank you Bogertophis!

Any suggestions on under the tank heaters? Zoo med, exo terra etc? I like the new thermostats from exo terra I am looking at the 300 watt thermostat from them along with there uth.

‘Any opinions are appreciated, thx again everyone

I've been using glass for years, as has Bogertophis. I honestly didn't read her reply, because I know she's a fantastic source and very reliable to always share good advice. So I'll probably repeat some of what was said, but it can't hurt to be repeated. Many people will bash glass, but once it's setup and dialed in its really pretty easy. There are plenty of little tricks to help with heat and humidity.

One of my BPs is in that same 40 breeder that I got at the dollar a gallon sale. You'll want to leave it on its original bottom, primarily because with BPs, they favor floor space over height.

I use a UTH that covers roughly 1/3 of the enclosure floor, but honestly don't remember what size it is. Then I use a heat lamp with a dark purple bulb. You could also use a CHE. All heat sources regulated by thermostats.
RHPs are fantastic, I have 1 in my other BPs enclosure. But I know what you mean about the price. I'm planning on slowly upgrading all of my enclosures to RHPs now that I know they're worth every penny. But over time due to funds.

For substrate, I use a blend of Eco Earth and ReptiBark. I've been using this combo for years and love it. It's easy to spot clean, maintains humidity well, has good odor control and looks naturalistic.

Finally, I wrap all my enclosures in 1/2' foam board insulation. I wrap the sides, back and top. I just cut the pieces to fit and tape them in place (on the outside, no tape ever inside an enclosure, very dangerous).
For the top I just trace the heat lamp where I want it to be. Then cut about an inch around the trace line to allow for some air flow.
This helps immensely with heat and humidity control. It also provides the security BPs crave. And since you need less artificial heat, it helps with the electric bill.

Hope this helps!

Oh, and great job getting the enclosure set up BEFORE bringing the animal home!! Make sure everything is up and running and functioning properly. Make sure your temps are good and you'll eliminate a lot of stress on you and the animal.

Good luck! Feel free to ask any questions you may have, we're happy to help.

Even corrugated cardboard or poster board (comes in black or white+, with a foam core, lightweight & about 1/4" thick) are good insulation options too.

And if you don't want to "see" the insulation thru the glass, you can tape on scenery first if you wanted to. (I'm a glass tank user, can you tell? lol...)

I prefer top-opening cages myself. I've had both, & while you don't want the snake to get the impression that you're a predatory hawk swooping in on them,
it's not that hard to signal what's going on so they aren't freaked out or thinking that you are "incoming-edibles". (see 'tap training', etc)

And by the way- :welcome:

Do you have any pics of your setup on the 40 gallon breeder tank you have?

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

Do you have any pics of your setup on the 40 gallon breeder tank you have?

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I can get some. I'll try to get them by the end of the night. If not, tommorow.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I can get some. I'll try to get them by the end of the night. If not, tommorow.

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Ok sounds good I’d just like too see what other ppl got that works, I’m super excited to see it, thank u

Picked up a exo terra 100 watt thermostat and a 11x11 16 watt ultratherm uth for the hot side today online. I’m curious if I will need another one for the cool side and have it regulated down w another exo terra Thermostat? I am also planning on running a 75 watt Che bulb in a heat lamp to keep ambient around 80 degrees.. sound like it’s gonna be good?

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these are them

Yes, all sounds good. You'll only need the one UTH. They are designed only to provide a hot spot to aid in digestion, not for ambient temps. Your CHE will take care of the rest.

I might get those pics before bed, ifnot I will in the morning.

Do yourself a favor and get a comparable quality infrared bulb, more wattage then necessary and hook it up to a dimmer lowering it to the proper power temperature. It will last very long and not drain anywhere near humidity out of your enclosure that a CHE would. Trust me, Peace.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

Do yourself a favor and get a comparable quality infrared bulb, more wattage then necessary and hook it up to a dimmer lowering it to the proper power temperature. It will last very long and not drain anywhere near humidity out of your enclosure that a CHE would. Trust me, Peace.

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‘Would a 100 watt infrared bulb work or would I need a higher wattage bulb ?

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

For substrate, I use a blend of Eco Earth and ReptiBark. I've been using this combo for years and love it. It's easy to spot clean, maintains humidity well, has good odor control and looks naturalistic.
.

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I picked up a 25 qt bag of eco earth and a 10 qt bag of reptile bark, excellent suggestion! :gj:What’s ur mix ratio? 50-50? I was thinking 70 eco 30 bark

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

This tank is just gonna be the starter tank, in the near future I am planning on going to a t10-or t11 inclosure from ap. But I need to start somewhere so this is going to be my starter tank and my pythons 1st home with us.

so I am now convinced to keep it vertical and finish the top with a hinged door for access, but I like the idea of insulting this with wood or cork or styrofoam for heat retention. Thank you Bogertophis!

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Why bother is my question? A simple tub in the warmest part of the house would be 100X easier for a first setup. It's a hassle to keep them in an aquarium, hence all this stuff that you are buying then going to retire quickly down the line and upgrade to what you actually need and want anyways so why not just save, buy quality equipment and caging straight off the bat? I've played the buy cheap and upgrade later game, with snakes, with fish, etc and it's not the smart way to go. Especially with your house so cold, it's going to be a battle between heat and humidity. Don't go cheap is my advice, it's only going to cost more in the end. Buy a herpstat, buy a quality cage, the upfront cost is more but the payoff is worth it long term in health and ease of care. You don't have the snake yet so no rush. Do it right. On/off thermostats aren't the best for heating either, I prefer a proportional one that keeps temps steady regulating output instead of 100% on or 100% off which fluctuates your temps.

Since your house is so cold I’d get two uths, one for cool side and one for hot. As already mentioned make sure to use thermostats. If you place them under a solid hide like an eco terra/zilla cave it will hold heat better. Make sure to carefully monitor temps until everything is set up correctly. For daylight it’s good to have a basking bulb as well. I find that my bp loves to bask. I have a large ceramic log to create a vertical heat gradient as he loves to climb. It’s only like 12” tall so if he falls he’s fine.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

I picked up a 25 qt bag of eco earth and a 10 qt bag of reptile bark, excellent suggestion! :gj:What’s ur mix ratio? 50-50? I was thinking 70 eco 30 bark

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I mix the ratio up a bit depending on the season and how much humidity retention I need. But I think 70/30 is a perfect starting point.

....and I told you that you'd run into glass bashers!!! Hahaha. But seriously, glass works just fine. I've been using it for almost 20 years, and millions of snake keepers do as well.

I'm just getting home, let me get those pics for you in a few...

Here's the pics. The quality isn't great and my glass shows water spots with my camera flash on. But you get the idea.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Also, my house temps are pretty similar to yours, so I really don't think there's a need for a second UTH.
But, this is a great learning opportunity. This is why setting everything up before bringing the animal home is so important.

Keep up the good work!!

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Originally Posted by MarkL1561

Since your house is so cold I’d get two uths, one for cool side and one for hot. As already mentioned make sure to use thermostats. If you place them under a solid hide like an eco terra/zilla cave it will hold heat better. Make sure to carefully monitor temps until everything is set up correctly. For daylight it’s good to have a basking bulb as well. I find that my bp loves to bask. I have a large ceramic log to create a vertical heat gradient as he loves to climb. It’s only like 12” tall so if he falls he’s fine.


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I'd have to agree...all situations are a little different, so meeting the needs of YOUR snake in YOUR house may require tweaking the generally-accepted "rules". ;)

Generally it's not recommended to heat more than a third of the cage floor, but I have in some cases, & IF you're careful & all is well-regulated, I'd say heating as much
as 2/3 of the floor is fine, but the snake needs temperature choices, part with no heat, part with mild warmth & part with more warmth, as in your case (in a cold house).

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

Why bother is my question? A simple tub in the warmest part of the house would be 100X easier for a first setup. It's a hassle to keep them in an aquarium, hence all this stuff that you are buying then going to retire quickly down the line and upgrade to what you actually need and want anyways so why not just save, buy quality equipment and caging straight off the bat? I've played the buy cheap and upgrade later game, with snakes, with fish, etc and it's not the smart way to go. Especially with your house so cold, it's going to be a battle between heat and humidity. Don't go cheap is my advice, it's only going to cost more in the end. Buy a herpstat, buy a quality cage, the upfront cost is more but the payoff is worth it long term in health and ease of care. You don't have the snake yet so no rush. Do it right. On/off thermostats aren't the best for heating either, I prefer a proportional one that keeps temps steady regulating output instead of 100% on or 100% off which fluctuates your temps.

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i can respect ur opinion but as I stated in my op I’ll be going to a t10 enclosure and some super high quality equipment in about a year. This is just an initial setup, many people have ran glass enclosures successfully with sub par equipment than I am using and have grown beautiful healthy snakes. Sometimes simplicity is a better route in the path to perfection. But just like anywhere else opinions fly loose and what may work for one is not as good for another. Thanks for your opinion...

and just for for the record my house runs at approx 72-73 degrees verified it last night

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I mix the ratio up a bit depending on the season and how much humidity retention I need. But I think 70/30 is a perfect starting point.

....and I told you that you'd run into glass bashers!!! Hahaha. But seriously, glass works just fine. I've been using it for almost 20 years, and millions of snake keepers do as well.

I'm just getting home, let me get those pics for you in a few...

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I figured that was about the right mix, and you were right about glass “bashers” but it doesn’t bother me because I know my snake will be happy n healthy in his “glass enclosure”. I’m just glad there are people who really want to help, not just discourage.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Here's the pics. The quality isn't great and my glass shows water spots with my camera flash on. But you get the idea.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Also, my house temps are pretty similar to yours, so I really don't think there's a need for a second UTH.
But, this is a great learning opportunity. This is why setting everything up before bringing the animal home is so important.

Keep up the good work!!

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I see what ur talking about now with the insulation, great idea I’m gonna do that! Maybe get some that’s black to help w heat retention as well, is that 1/2 inch thick? Would 1/4 work?. Just out of curiosity what thermometer and hydrometer u using? I see the heat gun as I have one as well but I have been hesitant to pull the trigger on thermo-hydro meters because they all pretty much look cheap. Could u post a link to the ones u have? Btw sweet tank! Looks os so familiar😎😎🤪 I can see him under that water dish🐍

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

I see what ur talking about now with the insulation, great idea I’m gonna do that! Maybe get some that’s black to help w heat retention as well, is that 1/2 inch thick? Would 1/4 work?. Just out of curiosity what thermometer and hydrometer u using? I see the heat gun as I have one as well but I have been hesitant to pull the trigger on thermo-hydro meters because they all pretty much look cheap. Could u post a link to the ones u have? Btw sweet tank! Looks os so familiar😎😎🤪 I can see him under that water dish🐍

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Yeah, it's simple to do. And sooooo worth the $15. This is the product I use. You can definitely use 1/4", it'll just have a lower R-rating. But whichever works for you in your situation will be fine.

As for thermometer/hygrometers I use Accurite brand. Many of the forum members do. They're reliable and don't break the bank. I have 2 in every enclosure. I've linked the model in the pic, but they have tons to choose from. I've picked up a few of their others that are basically the same but a different display.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-TU...8413/100322369


https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-Humid.../dp/B0013BKDO8

I did the same type of thing with the insulation. For the sides and back I took cardboard and spray painted it and let it air dry then taped it between the cardboard and glass just to make it more aesthetically appealing.

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

‘Would a 100 watt infrared bulb work or would I need a higher wattage bulb ?

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I’m currently using Zoo Med infrared 75 watt spot type bulbs on my 20 gallon long tanks. And have to turn the bulb dimmer almost all the way down as far as it will go in the summer months. So I’d give the 100watt a try. Petco and Petsmart will usually let you return it if you but the wrong size as long as you ask the manager in advance in my personal experience. Best of luck.

This time of year I run 75W bulbs. As the winter rolls in I have to switch to 100W

Are 2 water bowls common place in a glass enclosure?

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

Are 2 water bowls common place in a glass enclosure?

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Nah, you really only need one.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

Are 2 water bowls common place in a glass enclosure?

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I use two just because it helps with humidity. One is much more common, but this helps a ton with humidity.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I use two just because it helps with humidity. One is much more common, but this helps a ton with humidity.

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Ahh that’s what I figured, supplies on order should have most of what I ordered by the weekend.:gj: I’ll keep u guys updated.

Im so excited for my new pet coming, now I just have to decide what morph I want any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

Ahh that’s what I figured, supplies on order should have most of what I ordered by the weekend.:gj: I’ll keep u guys updated.

Im so excited for my new pet coming, now I just have to decide what morph I want any suggestions?

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Morph is 100% up to you. Get what YOU like, it's gonna be your pet for the next 25 years or so.

I forget if you already mentioned this, but are you getting a male or female?

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

This time of year I run 75W bulbs. As the winter rolls in I have to switch to 100W

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I was just curious Craig, do you also use a dimmer? Or just change wattage, you can get some serious life out of the bulb, and better overall temps using a dimmer. Peace

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Morph is 100% up to you. Get what YOU like, it's gonna be your pet for the next 25 years or so.

I forget if you already mentioned this, but are you getting a male or female?

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Im not sure yet it’s really gonna depend on the snake, i impartial to either sex but I’ll know once i see him/her. Off the top of my head I would assume a female for future possible breeding.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

I was just curious Craig, do you also use a dimmer? Or just change wattage, you can get some serious life out of the bulb, and better overall temps using a dimmer. Peace

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Would it have to be a proportional dimmer or would an on off work the same?

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

I was just curious Craig, do you also use a dimmer? Or just change wattage, you can get some serious life out of the bulb, and better overall temps using a dimmer. Peace

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All of my heat sources are regulated by thermostats

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

Would it have to be a proportional dimmer or would an on off work the same?

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An on/off one would shorten the life of the bulb greatly. Just an old school, get at home depot light dimmer. It allows you to dial the proper temps in with a heat gun. Works great if you are in control of your homes thermostat. It also allows you to use a higher wattage bulb, and turn it down to greatly extend the life of the bulb. Most breeders control the room temperature or large collection keepers usually have a room where they can control ambient temps overall. In your case I think this could help, Peace.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

All of my heat sources are regulated by thermostats

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Sincerely, then what would be the benefit of changing the bulbs wattage during different seasons, wouldn’t the thermostat automatically take care of that? Just trying to comprehend? Never used thermostat on a bulb, even though I’m fully aware it can be done. Peace

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

Sincerely, then what would be the benefit of changing the bulbs wattage during different seasons, wouldn’t the thermostat automatically take care of that? Just trying to comprehend? Never used thermostat on a bulb, even though I’m fully aware it can be done. Peace

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During the cooler months the 75W isn't enough. So I just swap them out. I could use 100W year round though

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

During the cooler months the 75W isn't enough. So I just swap them out. I could use 100W year round though

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If you stuck with the 100 watt year round, I bet it would increase the life of bulb dramatically. I know several members on here have pointed out the advantages of using a higher watt bulb turned down to increase the bulbs lifespan. Have a good day

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

If you stuck with the 100 watt year round, I bet it would increase the life of bulb dramatically. I know several members on here have pointed out the advantages of using a higher watt bulb turned down to increase the bulbs lifespan. Have a good day

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I totally agree w you, I’ll go pick up a 100w Infrared bulb and a dimmer switch, any brands in particular you would recommend? Thanks again

I want to thank everyone in helping me throughout this build , I am enjoying all the good suggestions and conversations as I am pretty new to the snake world. On the flip side if anyone needs help with their Subaru I am the guy , lol...

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Mocking it up!!!!!!!!!:gj: Still waiting on my ultratherm uth pad and a few water dishes and hides.... gonna go get a heat lamp and a 100w I fared bulb this weekend and a sheet of .75 thick insulation board and some black gorilla tape, soon enough I’ll be checking temps👍

UPDATE.......

So I got the 1” foam insulation board put up around the tank and it seems to be insulating the enclosure pretty dam good. I covered it all with some 3” wide gorilla tape to make it appealing to the eyes, Also got my ultratherm uth heater dialed in and got it maintaing a 92-93 surface temp for the hot side. Got wooden block to keep the enclosure off the ground. I’m running about 75-76 degrees on the ambient temp so I’ll be picking up a heat lamp enclosure and a 100w infrared bulb to dial the ambient temps to 80 degrees or so. I am waiting on my medium size hides to come in from reptile basics and some fake plants I ordered. Im going to be making a hinged door for the top with acrylic and I’ll be cutting out a hole for the heat lamp and putting in wire mesh so it all fits together ever so nicely... just wanted to throw an update out for anyone who has been following this. Thanks everyone for ur advice and if u have any suggestions just lemme know.



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Is that 92-93* on the surface of the substrate or on the surface of the actual glass with substrate pushed away? This is an important difference, because your
snake will undoubtedly push the substrate away & you don't want them contacting a surface that is too hot. (-that is hot enough to cause them damage)

The wood blocks might be thicker than you need: the more space you leave, the more that the cooler air from the room enters underneath the cage. I mostly
use thick rubber weatherstripping on all the bottom edges of my tanks, leaving a few 2" gaps on opposite sides of the tank for wires to pass underneath without
the weight of the cage on them, and so there is just a little "breathing space" for the safe operation of UTH.

Also, if your room is that chilly, you can do one of 2 things to keep heat in the tank:
1. Either insulate under the tank with some of your foam (or other safe materials) where the UTH is NOT located...or, better yet...
2. Block all but 2 gaps around the bottom edges of the tank (between the tank & the cabinet it sits on) so that basically the extra heat from the UTH builds up
under the tank & slightly warms most of the cage floor. I've been using UTH for decades, literally, & to help protect my wood furniture from drying out from
the constant UTH heat, I also put some thin ceramic tiles under the tanks as a "heat sink". If your power goes off, they help retain & radiate warmth upwards,
and they also help protect the wood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Is that 92-93* on the surface of the substrate or on the surface of the actual glass with substrate pushed away? This is an important difference, because your
snake will undoubtedly push the substrate away & you don't want them contacting a surface that is too hot. (-that is hot enough to cause them damage)

The wood blocks might be thicker than you need: the more space you leave, the more that the cooler air from the room enters underneath the cage. I mostly
use thick rubber weatherstripping on all the bottom edges of my tanks, leaving a few 2" gaps on opposite sides of the tank for wires to pass underneath without
the weight of the cage on them, and so there is just a little "breathing space" for the safe operation of UTH.

Also, if your room is that chilly, you can do one of 2 things to keep heat in the tank:
1. Either insulate under the tank with some of your foam (or other safe materials) where the UTH is NOT located...or, better yet...
2. Block all but 2 gaps around the bottom edges of the tank (between the tank & the cabinet it sits on) so that basically the extra heat from the UTH builds up
under the tank & slightly warms most of the cage floor. I've been using UTH for decades, literally, & to help protect my wood furniture from drying out from
the constant UTH heat, I also put some thin ceramic tiles under the tanks as a "heat sink". If your power goes off, they help retain & radiate warmth upwards,
and they also help protect the wood.

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94@the glass with the probe hot glued right above the uth inside the tank, I get about 90-91 degrees @ the substrate with the thermostat @ 94 degree setting. I have about 1/2 inch maybe less of the substrate on the hot side with an incline to about 2 inches of substrate on my cool side. I do have foam covering my uth which seems to help the heat being kept in the tank. I have changed my mind on the whole heat lamp with infrared bulb, I figured it was gonna cost me about 50-60 bucks to get this setup so I’m gonna go with an 80 watt radiant heat panel from reptile basics with a proportional thermostat from exo terra for about 150 all together. Just seems like a way better setup to me.

You're making some solid progress!!

Just 2 things jump out to me...

1) you want to measure the actual surface temp for your hot spot, not the substrate. Like Bogertophis said, they can and will burrow, push substrate around, etc...
So you want to get the actual glass temp down to 88-89.

2) the thermostat probe goes OUTSIDE the enclosure, sandwiched between the glass and the UTH.
Tstat probes that are INSIDE can be moved (even glued), laid on, peed on, water spilled on, etc... which can all cause inaccurate readings. These inaccurate readings can cause dangerous heat spikes.


Other than that, nothing else I can see.

I think you're going to love the RHP. They're fantastic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

You're making some solid progress!!

Just 2 things jump out to me...

1) you want to measure the actual surface temp for your hot spot, not the substrate. Like Bogertophis said, they can and will burrow, push substrate around, etc...
So you want to get the actual glass temp down to 88-89.

2) the thermostat probe goes OUTSIDE the enclosure, sandwiched between the glass and the UTH.
Tstat probes that are INSIDE can be moved (even glued), laid on, peed on, water spilled on, etc... which can all cause inaccurate readings. These inaccurate readings can cause dangerous heat spikes.


Other than that, nothing else I can see.

I think you're going to love the RHP. They're fantastic.

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i have read online and seen videos to not put the probe for the heat pad sandwiched between the glass, so which one is the right way?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SubieRoadKill

i have read online and seen videos to not put the probe for the heat pad sandwiched between the glass, so which one is the right way?

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Ask around and youll learn that pretty much ALL experienced keepers sandwich it between the UTH and glass/enclosure.

Ok I did and I see it is the way, thanks , ur help is awesome and always the best