Fasting?

I think I may have triggered my snake into a fast. Sorry this is going to be a long post since I’m trying to be thorough.

Kaa is a bit over 3 years old and eats every week, usually twice a week, on adult mice. I was previously living in an apartment that was pretty temperature controlled so didn’t worry about the heating in her/his (I just refer to Kaa as she, I really don’t know) cage so much. I moved her home with me for the summer and it’s been weirdly cold here, so her cage’s ambient was getting to about 70F some nights on the cool side (would bounce back to upper 70s during day). I fixed it by ordering a new heating pad that covers a large portion of the cage and now the ambient temp is 82F during the day and sometimes 77F at night which is in a range that she’s happily eaten in before.

She has three hides, one over the heat pad that gets to 92F, a humid hide under the heat lamp, and a cool hide that’s neither over the pad or under the lamp. She spends 90% of her time in the cool hide or the one over the pad. The humid one is almost only used for sheds because it’s so dry here and I can’t seem to get the humidity above 45 consistently. That has never changed, so I’m pretty positive that’s not the culprit in this case.

She’s in a V332 cage (side suggestions on how you raise humidity if you use one is welcome). I use moss under the humid hide and thoroughly wet it a couple times a week.

The problem is, I think maybe she’s gone into a sort of fasting mode now. It’s been about a month and no strikes, although the last two feed attempts she’s shown interest - came all the way out of the hide she was in to investigate, but no strike. This is odd behavior, because typically if she’s come all the way out she slams into her prey. I got slightly smaller mice because that has helped in the past. Should I go even smaller?

I’ll dig the scale out of the garage and do a weighing tomorrow to see how heavy Kaa is, but she looks by no means thin.

My question is whether the few cold nights could have triggered a fast? There have been other times the temp has dropped due to moving around and she’s still eaten fine, it just worries me that this is happening. I took her out the other day to just check on her and let her roam and nothing was out of the ordinary (listened to breathing and everything because I got worried about the cold causing illness), but she was still inquisitive and active.

I did a bit of reading and found that snakes around this age can be prone to a fast? She did a small fast around/ during December for about a month due to me accidentally trying to feed her during a shed that I think freaked her out a little. She also hasn’t been poking her head out as if expectant of a meal as she usually does, so I’m not sure if that’s an indicator I should cut back on the food offerings?

As a side note, I feel like everything has been a mess since I moved her and one reason she might have put off food is because the first time I went to feed her after the move she managed to poop and then rub it all over herself that evening (which obviously put her off her appetite). So instead of feeding her like she had been waiting for, I ended up having to wash her off. She’s never done that, but she has refused a meal before and I figured out it was because she had soiled the cage.

She can get kind of “awkward” if she misses a strike or something, so I’m not sure if that fiasco contributed. I also move her back and forth between locations several times a year and there’s never been an issue with that either.

I feel really bad about the temperature issue and just hope I haven’t caused a major rift for her. Is there anything else I can do now or just wait? I don’t want her to suffer... am I being paranoid? How long should I wait before trying to feed again and should I refrain from taking her out to get sun in the garden during this period?

Thank you if you’ve managed to get through this long winded, hodgepodge write-up and have some insight. (:



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My first question is why are you only feeding adult mice? She should be plenty big enough at 3 years old to takesmall rats....and why are you feeding an adult snake twice a week?

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

My first question is why are you only feeding adult mice? She should be plenty big enough at 3 years old to takesmall rats....and why are you feeding an adult snake twice a week?

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I’m feeding the mice because she doesn’t particularly like the rats. Sometimes I think she has a hard time getting them down and then would refuse to eat the following week, so I stuck with the mice. I feed them 2x per week because they’re smaller than the rat, so that makes up for it.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maddlesrain

I’m feeding the mice because she doesn’t particularly like the rats. Sometimes I think she has a hard time getting them down and then would refuse to eat the following week, so I stuck with the mice. I feed them 2x per week because they’re smaller than the rat, so that makes up for it.


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Ok, why not two mice per feeding then?
And I'm sure she doesn't have any problem with small rats at 3 years old. Most BPs are on small rats by 2 years old.

...and if you're offering even SMALLER mice she might not even recognize it as a worthwhile prey item

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Ok, why not two mice per feeding then?
And I'm sure she doesn't have any problem with small rats at 3 years old. Most BPs are on small rats by 2 years old.

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I know she can, but I’ve tried them and she’s just not that inclined to them. I made another thread about whether or not it mattered and the consensus was that it doesn’t, so I stick with what she likes.

I usually spread them out a day or two just because I’m not sure she’ll take the second right away and I don’t feel it hurts anything to wait 24 hours in between.

I just asked about the smaller mouse to rule it out as an option.


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There's no need to space out the feedings. They're designed to take larger meals because they are opportunistic ambush predators. Giving a day or two in between barely gives her time to digest before feeding again.

Feed weekly and that should help

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

There's no need to space out the feedings. They're designed to take larger meals because they are opportunistic ambush predators. Giving a day or two in between barely gives her time to digest before feeding again.

Feed weekly and that should help

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First I need to get her eating again, that’s what I’m asking about. I’ve only been offering once per week now to see if she gets back on track. But I’m not sure if I should wait longer before trying again or should be concerned about the situation?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maddlesrain

First I need to get her eating again, that’s what I’m asking about. I’ve only been offering once per week now to see if she gets back on track. But I’m not sure if I should wait longer before trying again or should be concerned about the situation.


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I wouldn't sweat it. Sounds like she's just doing what BPs do. As long as the animal isn't losing weight there's no health issue to worry about.

As for when to offer, I'd wait at least a week between offering. I personally wait 2 weeks once they refuse consecutive meals. If they refuse 3 in a row I space it out even more.
My male BP just came off a strike a few weeks ago. I hadn't offered in probably 5-6 weeks when I noticed he started poking his head out of his hide, indicating "hunting" behavior. Once I saw this 3 straight nights I knew he was hungry. Sure enough, I offered, he took it,and he's been back on track since.

Be patient. Like I said,no need to worry.

The move and temp fluctuations may have added to her desire to refuse, so just let her settle in for at least a week.

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I wouldn't sweat it. Sounds like she's just doing what BPs do. As long as the animal isn't losing weight there's no health issue to worry about.

As for when to offer, I'd wait at least a week between offering. I personally wait 2 weeks once they refuse consecutive meals. If they refuse 3 in a row I space it out even more.
My male BP just came off a strike a few weeks ago. I hadn't offered in probably 5-6 weeks when I noticed he started poking his head out of his hide, indicating "hunting" behavior. Once I saw this 3 straight nights I knew he was hungry. Sure enough, I offered, he took it,and he's been back on track since.

Be patient. Like I said,no need to worry.

The move and temp fluctuations may have added to her desire to refuse, so just let her settle in for at least a week.

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I think I’ll wait two weeks this time then since there have been multiple refusals.

Once she’s eating steadily again I can try another rat since it’s been a little while and see what happens with that. I’ve seen her eat them, it’s just not as solid as with the mice, but she’s a little bigger now anyway too.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maddlesrain

I think I’ll wait two weeks this time then since there have been multiple refusals.

Once she’s eating steadily again I can try another rat since it’s been a little while and see what happens with that. I’ve seen her eat them, it’s just not as solid as with the mice, but she’s a little bigger now anyway too.


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Sounds good.

Now, just out of curiosity. What makes you say she prefers mice?

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Sounds good.

Now, just out of curiosity. What makes you say she prefers mice?

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Just because the feeding response is so much stronger. The rats are a hit or miss too as to whether or not she’ll even take them. The mice are usually a sure thing.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maddlesrain

Just because the feeding response is so much stronger. The rats are a hit or miss too as to whether or not she’ll even take them. The mice are usually a sure thing.


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Ok, gotcha.

Hi...just want to add my agreement with Craig on this. Hatchling snakes are fed weekly, & as they grow bigger & take larger prey, the time between feedings
is lengthened, for good reason: feeding too soon after a meal can cause a regurgitation of both items, & I'm surprised that you got away with it for so long.
Adult snakes are typically fed every 10-14 days (can even be longer when snakes get to their senior years) and if you want to feed 2 smaller items (that roughly
equal the one larger item of the correct size) they should always be fed together, one right after the other.

While I think your temp. issues were part of the problem, I'm glad you're getting the feeding issues sorted out too. BPs are known for fasting at times anyway,
which is frustrating for us (to say the least) but when they refuse food, it can stress them further to offer food too often; at that time, it's better not to offer more
than once every 2 or 3 weeks, to give them time to feel some urgency to eat. And that also reduces the amount of prey you end up wasting.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Hi...just want to add my agreement with Craig on this. Hatchling snakes are fed weekly, & as they grow bigger & take larger prey, the time between feedings
is lengthened, for good reason: feeding too soon after a meal can cause a regurgitation of both items, & I'm surprised that you got away with it for so long.
Adult snakes are typically fed every 10-14 days (can even be longer when snakes get to their senior years) and if you want to feed 2 smaller items (that roughly
equal the one larger item of the correct size) they should always be fed together, one right after the other.

While I think your temp. issues were part of the problem, I'm glad you're getting the feeding issues sorted out too. BPs are known for fasting at times anyway,
which is frustrating for us (to say the least) but when they refuse food, it can stress them further to offer food too often; at that time, it's better not to offer more
than once every 2 or 3 weeks, to give them time to feel some urgency to eat. And that also reduces the amount of prey you end up wasting.

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I’ll definitely wait her out a little then.

I didn’t realize that when feeding multiple prey items and there were zero problems so I would have never known. She’s usually super aggressive about eating and has literally ripped prey in half trying to get at it, and there’s never been a regurgitation incident. She’s pretty steady and low stress, so that’s why I’m feeling a little worried now.

Her cage is stable now and I’m just keeping an eye on it, so hopefully she’ll get back to eating in the near future.


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8507b758a4.jpg

Just weighed her. She weighs about 1,282 grams.

Sound about right? About 40” long, and 3 years old.

Last question: should I refrain from any handling or would once every week or two be ok for this period?

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Update:

Still hasn’t eaten.

She’s 1.273 kg today.

Tried to feed about a week ago. She came out and seemed interested, but no strike. She also peed since the last weighing.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...44002eb5d0.jpg

She looks a little duller today, so thinking a shed is coming on. Might wait to attempt a feed until after that happens.


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Beautiful snake! I have nothing useful to add as I'm new to keeping snakes, but I hope it all works out for you and your girl. Sounds like you are making the effort though!

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She looks great!! She's got a nice body structure, not too big, not too thin...

If she's going into shed that's a perfect time to "wait them out". A lot of times they'll refuse when they feel a shed coming. It's likely to save their energy for the shed rather than expend energy on digestion. Plus, with their vision impaired while in shed I'm sure they like to stay "light" to more easily escape any potential predators.

So hopefully after she sheds she'll be good and hungry.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

She looks to be going into shed to me as well, so just wait to feed after the shed...no need to risk wasting food now, & she'll have a better appetite when you do
offer. Don't worry, she's not starving...;) Beautiful snake, btw.

Thank you all [emoji1374]
Makes me feel so much less stressed over this and like I’m not doing her wrong. She’s my first (and only) snake so I don’t have anything to go off of, so you all really help me out!! [emoji4]

I’m keeping my fingers crossed I can update you all with a beautiful post shed photo and the news that’s she’s back on food in the next couple weeks!


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Soooo after she’s shed ( and you’ve seen the old shedded skin ) ..
Try feeding at night .. wait until she’s under a hide then using a hairdryer warm the mouse/rat then INSTANTLY dangle it in front of the hide entrance... if it shows interest or even tongue flicks you just reheat the rodent and INSTANTLY dangle it over the hide entrance.. repeat until it takes it or it stops showing interest..


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No matter how many years have gone by, I can still remember the frustration & worry that I felt when I was new to keeping snakes & they didn't want to eat.
Especially tough when it's the very first...hang in there & try not to worry...snakes are here to "teach us patience". ;)

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Soooo after she’s shed ( and you’ve seen the old shedded skin ) ..
Try feeding at night .. wait until she’s under a hide then using a hairdryer warm the mouse/rat then INSTANTLY dangle it in front of the hide entrance... if it shows interest or even tongue flicks you just reheat the rodent and INSTANTLY dangle it over the hide entrance.. repeat until it takes it or it stops showing interest..


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That’s what I usually do with her (minus the hair dryer). I stick it under the heat lamp usually, but will do the hair dryer trick this time. She’s pretty obvious when she’s had enough and pointedly turns away and goes back into her burrow.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

No matter how many years have gone by, I can still remember the frustration & worry that I felt when I was new to keeping snakes & they didn't want to eat.
Especially tough when it's the very first...hang in there & try not to worry...snakes are here to "teach us patience". ;)

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You’re very right! I also keep exotic fish / corals and it’s the same game. Haha I’ve just kept the fish much, much longer.


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Originally Posted by Maddlesrain

You’re very right! I also keep exotic fish / corals and it’s the same game. Haha I’ve just kept the fish much, much longer.


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I got a couple goldfish myself (not fancy) so besides being ammonia machines they are fairly easy to take care of but get babied. My toddler would like to compete for the position of "patience teacher" haha!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burticus

I got a couple goldfish myself (not fancy) so besides being ammonia machines they are fairly easy to take care of but get babied. My toddler would like to compete for the position of "patience teacher" haha!

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LOL! At least the fish are confined to making a mess in the tank [emoji6][emoji23]

I also have a goldfish tank and they are SO dirty!! They’re my big water pigs.


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Update: she just rolled the old skin off. I’m thinking I’ll wait until tomorrow and then try to feed. Or should a wait a little longer?

I think the old skin looks so pretty (is that weird? [emoji23]).

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f4277dc28b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...67a3e100b2.jpg


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She did a good job! :snake: I'd wait until she actually LOOKS interested in feeding, you'll have more success that way. Since I can't read her mind, you'll have to
see how she acts...some snakes want food right after a shed, others do better by waiting a day or several. Just watch her "body language" to gauge the level of
her interest...like if she's attracted to motion nearby, or if she's waiting in her hide & peeking out (remember BPs are ambush-predators, that's her "M.O."). ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

She did a good job! :snake: I'd wait until she actually LOOKS interested in feeding, you'll have more success that way. Since I can't read her mind, you'll have to
see how she acts...some snakes want food right after a shed, others do better by waiting a day or several. Just watch her "body language" to gauge the level of
her interest...like if she's attracted to motion nearby, or if she's waiting in her hide & peeking out (remember BPs are ambush-predators, that's her "M.O."). ;)

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I actually just went into the room and she’s perusing the tank. Has her head out sitting on one of her hides watching and has almost her whole body out. Sadly I don’t have any food in the freezer (I thought I did, but was mistaken), so she’ll have to hold out until tomorrow. She’s VERY active now though, which is usually a good sign! Hopefully it is now too!! [emoji1694][emoji1694][emoji1694]
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She'll be fine...anticipation makes for a successful feeding. ;)

No luck tonight so far [emoji20] Must admit I’m feeling pretty gutted right now.

I got her a small rat today (maybe that was a mistake) because all the mice in stock were so offensively small I didn’t think she’d go for them. I’ll try one of the large mice in the next week or two since she’s used to them.

She’s out laying in the open again tonight, so I thought she’d be ready, but she didn’t show much interested at all once I presented it in the cage.



(Happy World Snake Day)


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GOOD NEWS!!
Kaa took a live mouse tonight! I tried a frozen and live rat the past two feedings with minimal interest. I’m so glad I finally got a response out of her after all that waiting!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6a532ae74b.jpg

There is she creep’n after her meal (:


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