New owner - weight loss , temps and handling

Hi everyone.

I picked up my first snake on June 1st, a female BP, and she has been settling in quite well I think. I have a few questions I would really be appreciative if some of you knowledgeable people could help me out:

1.

I weighed her when I got her home as she came in at 130g on June 1st.

I fed her a hopper mouse weighing 15g on June 5th (compared to her girth this looks a little small but I went with the 10-15% body weight recommendations).

I was planning to feed her again tomorrow which is exactly one week after her last meal. So as not to disturb her tomorrow before feeding I took her out and weighed her today and she was down to 122g so seems to have lost some weight despite the feeding 6 days ago. Does this mean she needs to be fed more frequently or bigger mice? See seems a bit thin too so I gave her another 15g mouse after I put her back into the cage after weighing her which she struck at and ate without any problems. Is the 8g weight loss anything to worry about? And should I be feeding her more often or bigger mice?

2.

She also has been hanging out at her cold end a lot and was cold to the touch when I got her out earlier today too. The temps have dropped a little here to low 20's (C) in the last couple of days but her hot end is continually maintained at 32C but she doesn't seem to go up there so much. Should I just trust her to know what she is doing with her body temps?

3.

When she came back, I waited a week for her to settle in before handling her for the first time. She was nervous but relaxed. Since then I have handled her two more times over the second week. Is this too much? I want to get her used t being handled without causing her any undue stress. This last time she was very twitchy and nervous so I cut it short after weighing her. She hasn't struck at me yet (although she did have a snap at my son while I was handling her), but I don't want to push her to it. What is the right balance between developing good handling habits and confidence, and causing the animal unnecessary stress?

Thanks so much in advance.

At a 130 grams your snake you be feeding on adult mice not hopper, hoppers are for snake out of the egg (generally weighing at 40 to 60 grams)

8 grams of weight loss is NOTHING hardly even a bowel movement. (that's 0.03 oz)

Yes she knows how to thermo-regulate they have done that without any help for millions of years the only thing they need from YOU is proper temperatures, however if the cool side is at 20 degrees you are not doing that and your temps are 4 to 5 degrees of. If your room temp does not allow you to reach 24 degrees as a minimum on the cool side, you need to provide supplemental heat to be able to do that.

As far as handling it depends on the animal and the younger/smaller the animal the more you want to limit handling, remember handling is for your enjoyment not theirs.

EDIT. I just checked on her before going to bed and she is just laying with the mouse next to her :(. I will leave her with it overnight to see if she decides to eat it or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

At a 130 grams your snake you be feeding on adult mice not hopper, hoppers are for snake out of the egg (generally weighing at 40 to 60 grams)

8 grams of weight loss is NOTHING hardly even a bowel movement. (that's 0.03 oz)

Yes she knows how to thermo-regulate they have done that without any help for millions of years the only thing they need from YOU is proper temperatures, however if the cool side is at 20 degrees you are not doing that and your temps are 4 to 5 degrees of. If your room temp does not allow you to reach 24 degrees as a minimum on the cool side, you need to provide supplemental heat to be able to do that.

As far as handling it depends on the animal and the younger/smaller the animal the more you want to limit handling, remember handling is for your enjoyment not theirs.

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Thanks for the reply.

I appreciate the advice. Both the breeder I got her from and the shop I got the mice from said she should eat hoppers, and the guidelines for feeding stickied in this forum suggest mice weighing 12-17g for a python up to 200g. The mice I have range from 15-18g. Is this weight of mouse insufficient for a 130g python. I honestly think it might be a translation issue and the Japanese "hopper" (I live in Japan) might be a small adult mouse. If not, what weight of mouse should I be giving her?

My temps in the cage are not as low as 20. The cold side is between 25-26C. Outside temps have dropped to low 20's. I check the temps everytime I am around the cage with a temp gun. I was just curious as to why she prefers that to the warm side so much.

OK. I will keep handling to once a week for a while and see how she improves with that.

Thanks again.

First off, welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of snake keeping.

I'm not sure about the difference in terminology of pretty size, I think there might be a variance from what we're used to in the States.
The weight you're describing is basically what we'd consider a large hopper/small mouse. That being said, the size you're offering does fall in the 10-15% range, but won't for long.
If you bought a few I'd just feed them off but move up in size sooner than later.

As for temps, they know what they're doing. They've survived thousands of years without us, so as long as your temps are in the right ranges trust your animal to thermoregulate as needed.

Lastly, I strongly advise no handling at all until the animal eats 3 consecutive meals without refusal. So, no handling yet. And since the snake refused it's most recent offering, that count starts over with the next successful feed.

Remember, getting the snake eating is priority number one.

Handling is solely for us.

Good luck. Please ask any questions you may have. We're happy to help.

Thanks.

I jiggled the mouse again and she restruck and this time has swallowed it and headed over to her warm hide. I think she might have struck it at an awkward angle and couldn’t work out how to get it down her throat the first time. Thise mice I got came in a bundle of 10 so I will probably need to size up before she eats them all as she still has 7 left to eat.

I appreciate the advice regarding handling. I will leave her be from now on until I hit the 3 successful feeding mark.

I also appreciate the warm welcome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maron

Thanks.

I jiggled the mouse again and she restruck and this time has swallowed it and headed over to her warm hide. I think she might have struck it at an awkward angle and couldn’t work out how to get it down her throat the first time. Thise mice I got came in a bundle of 10 so I will probably need to size up before she eats them all as she still has 7 left to eat.

I appreciate the advice regarding handling. I will leave her be from now on until I hit the 3 successful feeding mark.

I also appreciate the warm welcome.

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You're very welcome. Happy to have you on board.

As for the pack of 10 and the remaining 7, what I would probably do is feed the largest 3 first. Then use the smallest 4 and double up. So feed 2 per meal for the last 2 meals. Then upsize.

You're off to a good start. You're asking questions and applying what you learn. Keep doing what you're doing and you'll be a great snake parent in no time! :gj:

So it is feeding day and I took her out for 10 seconds to do a weighing earlier on before feeding and will give her a mouse later on tonight once she gets active.

I took this photo just before weighing her.

I am concerned about whether she is too thin. You can see her spine a little on the photo. She is 135g now at 3 months old.

So my question is, if I move her up to two mice instead of one to get rid of the mice I have before moving up, how does one go about offering two mice? Do I let her strike, wrap and eat one, and then offer her another to strike at? Or is there a way to get her to take two one after the other without another strike?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ecf7f863f.jpeg

I find that interacting with the snake right before feeding makes them more susceptible to refusal. Try feeding it without moving it or lifting up the hide in the enclosure. Weigh her after every bowel movement.

Thanks Mirakuru.

I gave her a good 6 hours after weighing her before feeding. But from next time I will avoid all interaction on feeding day.

She took her mouse really well today. The best since I have had her. I am extremely pleased with it. First time she was out of the hide at feeding time and really showed interest in the mouse straight away. I was even able to watch her swallow the prey for the first time - amazing how she got the mouse down her skinny neck :D.

When feeding multiple prey items let the snake completely swallow the first one. Make sure it's reached the snakes belly.
At this point, the snake will likely be back in "hunting mode" and look ready to eat again.
Just go ahead and feed the same way you always do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

When feeding multiple prey items let the snake completely swallow the first one. Make sure it's reached the snakes belly.
At this point, the snake will likely be back in "hunting mode" and look ready to eat again.
Just go ahead and feed the same way you always do.

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Excellent. Exactly what I needed to know. Thanks.

Once she has taken her next two mice, I will move her up to two at a time for the last two feedings until we finish the pack of 10 - then onto something bigger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maron

Thanks Mirakuru.

I gave her a good 6 hours after weighing her before feeding. But from next time I will avoid all interaction on feeding day.

She took her mouse really well today. The best since I have had her. I am extremely pleased with it. First time she was out of the hide at feeding time and really showed interest in the mouse straight away. I was even able to watch her swallow the prey for the first time - amazing how she got the mouse down her skinny neck :D.

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That's great news!! It's always a good feeling when a strike is over :P

Hey guys,

I hope you don’t mind helping me out with some more questions. I just can’t shake the feeling my girl is too thin despite following the feeding guidelines I have received.

She is my first snake so I don’t know what she should feel like but her skin seems loose and her belly feels concave. Youtube videos I have watched would suggest she is underweight.

She is now 4 months old and has steadily gained weight in the month I have had her (130-214g). She eats when I feed her. Last Friday she ate a 33g adult mouse which was around the same size as her widest point. She had her first shed a few days before that so hadn’t eaten for around 8 days. The shed was beautiful in one piece with the eye caps attached.

Should I not be concerned as long as she is gaining weight? Or should I feed her more frequently? Bigger mice? Or am I just being over sensitive?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maron

Hey guys,

I hope you don’t mind helping me out with some more questions. I just can’t shake the feeling my girl is too thin despite following the feeding guidelines I have received.

She is my first snake so I don’t know what she should feel like but her skin seems loose and her belly feels concave. Youtube videos I have watched would suggest she is underweight.

She is now 4 months old and has steadily gained weight in the month I have had her (130-214g). She eats when I feed her. Last Friday she ate a 33g adult mouse which was around the same size as her widest point. She had her first shed a few days before that so hadn’t eaten for around 8 days. The shed was beautiful in one piece with the eye caps attached.

Should I not be concerned as long as she is gaining weight? Or should I feed her more frequently? Bigger mice? Or am I just being over sensitive?

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She doesn't appear thin in that photo...and her backbone looks normal for the posture she's in. Her belly should not protrude, it's supposed to be flat & will be a little
concave between meals. She is a growing snake, & they often seem underweight simply because they keep growing in length before they can thicken up much. She
is eating regularly so you have little to worry about...snakes are not "designed" to eat all the time like we are...enjoy her for the size she is, as she won't be little forever. ;)
She looks very healthy to me & nothing you describe sounds otherwise. Don't try to rush her meals or over-size them...snakes (like people) are healthier when NOT over-fed, and feeding too much is more likely to result in her being "picky" (refusing meals) which is truly no fun.

Thank you Bogertopis.

Your reply is reassuring.

The internet is a wonderful place for gaining new information on raising a pet, but sometimes the pure volume of said information can be overwhelming and rather contrasting.

Cleo seems to be a very docile and friendly (for want of a better word) snake, so doing right by her is important to me.

As long as she is eating and growing I will keep on following the feeding guidelines.

Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maron

Hey guys,

I hope you don’t mind helping me out with some more questions. I just can’t shake the feeling my girl is too thin despite following the feeding guidelines I have received.

She is my first snake so I don’t know what she should feel like but her skin seems loose and her belly feels concave. Youtube videos I have watched would suggest she is underweight.

She is now 4 months old and has steadily gained weight in the month I have had her (130-214g). She eats when I feed her. Last Friday she ate a 33g adult mouse which was around the same size as her widest point. She had her first shed a few days before that so hadn’t eaten for around 8 days. The shed was beautiful in one piece with the eye caps attached.

Should I not be concerned as long as she is gaining weight? Or should I feed her more frequently? Bigger mice? Or am I just being over sensitive?

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It sounds like you're doing everything right! :gj:

Honestly, there are some great resources on YouTube, but be very careful who you trust to learn from. Always cross reference multiple sources before believing anything to be true.
Keep in mind, ANYBODY can post ANYTHING on the internet, so make sure your sources are actually knowledgeable and reliable.

As for her weight, she's eating and gaining weight. She'll fill out for you. But also keep in mind that a huge percentage of the snakes kept in captivity are overweight.

Try to think of it this way...they don't eat on any schedule in nature, but have survived thousands upon thousands of years. They survive on a LOT less than what we as keepers generally feed.

I personally feed on a more conservative schedule than many. But so far I've never had an unhealthy snake in my care, dating back almost 20 years.

Keep doing what you're doing. You'll be a great snake keeper.