And They Complain About Snakes On A Plane

ok some of us are still trying to get our Burms on the plane yet some ESA's still cannot behave. SMH.

i feel bad for this victim and what this incident did to actual peeps w/ ESA's.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...enger-n1011881

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Man attacked by emotional support dog on Delta flight sues the airline and passenger
The attack was so severe Marlin Jackson suffered "extensive facial damage" including lacerations to his nose and mouth, according to the suit.

An Alabama man is suing Delta Air Lines and one of its passengers over his getting mauled by an emotional support dog on a flight in 2017.

The attack was so severe that Marlin Jackson suffered "extensive facial damage," including lacerations to his nose and mouth, and bled so profusely "that the entire row of seats had to be removed from the airplane," according to the suit, which was filed on Friday in Georgia's State Court of Fulton County.

Jackson was seated in a window seat on a Delta flight from Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport to San Diego International Airport in June 2017, the suit says.

Fellow passenger Ronald Mundy was already in his middle seat "with his large dog attempting to sit in his lap," according to the suit, which says that Delta's policy required large emotional support dogs be secured on the floor.

"Defendant Delta allowed the large animal to remain in Defendant Mundy's lap while Delta employees passed through the area in open disregard of said policy," the suit states.

Before taking his seat down, Jackson asked Mundy if the dog would bite and Mundy assured him the animal was safe. As Jackson buckled his seatbelt, the dog started to growl and shift in Mundy's lap, according to the lawsuit. Jackson again asked if the dog was safe, and Mundy said it was.

Without warning, the dog lunged at Jackson, biting him several times in the face and pinning him against the window, the suit states.

"The attack was briefly interrupted when the animal was pulled away from Mr. Jackson. However, the animal broke free and again mauled Mr. Jackson's face," according to the lawsuit.

NBC News was unable to immediately reach Mundy, whom the lawsuit says is a North Carolina resident.

According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the dog that attacked Jackson was 50 pounds. Mundy is a military veteran, according to Journal Constitution.

Jackson required 28 stitches and lost sensation in parts of his face, the suit states. He also experiences "emotional distress and mental anguish" from the attack. Jackson is seeking damages in an amount to be determined by the court.

"Marlin Jackson continues to suffer from the vicious dog attack," said his attorneys J. Ross Massey and Graham Roberts with Alexander Shunnarah and Associates in a joint statement to NBC News. "The attack on Mr. Jackson would not have happened had Delta enforced their own pre-existing policies concerning animals in the cabin."

A Delta spokesperson told NBC News the airline could not comment on pending litigation, but that in 2018 it changed its policy regarding emotional support animals by requiring a "confirmation of animal training" form as well as other official documentation.

"The airline also banned pit bulls and animals under four months of age as service or support animals. These policy updates reinforce Delta’s core value of putting safety first, always," the spokesperson said in a statement.

In that policy change in December 2018, Delta said it was also banning emotional support animals on flights that are longer than eight hours. The company made the changes following an 84 percent increase in incidents involving service and support animals in 2016 and 2017.

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also here: https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-sues-d...ry?id=63364828

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Man sues Delta after emotional support dog allegedly attacked him on flight

An Alabama man has filed a lawsuit against Delta, accusing the airline of negligence after a passenger's emotional support dog allegedly attacked him on a 2017 flight.

Marlin Jackson was in a window seat on a flight from Atlanta to San Diego when a fellow passenger's "large dog" suddenly mauled him, biting his face and pinning him against the window of the aircraft, according to the suit.
Jackson said the dog bit him several times, causing him to bleed "so profusely that the entire row of seats had to be removed from the airplane," the suit, filed Friday in Fulton County state court, said.

"While Mr. Jackson was securing his seatbelt, the animal began to growl," the lawsuit said. "The attack was briefly interrupted when the animal was pulled away from Mr. Jackson. However, the animal broke free and again mauled Mr. Jackson’s face."

Jackson said he suffered injuries to his face and upper body that required 28 stitches and left him with permanent scars. He said he suffered loss of sensation to areas of his face, "severe physical pain and suffering," emotional distress and mental anguish following the attack, according to the lawsuit.

"His entire lifestyle has been severely impaired by this attack," the suit said. "Mr. Jackson sustained lost life enjoyment and his entire lifestyle has been severely impaired by this attack."

He's suing the airline for an unspecified amount, claiming it failed to ensure his safety and allowed the dog to board without proper restraints. The dog's owner is also named as a plaintiff in the suit.

Delta told ABC News that it could not comment on the accusations because the litigation is still pending, but shared it did offer details on its policy regarding animals on board.

"In 2018, Delta tightened its policies on emotional support animals by requiring a 'confirmation of animal training' form as well as other official documentation," the company said in a statement. "The airline also banned pit bulls and animals under four months of age as service or support animals. These policy updates reinforce Delta’s core value of putting safety first, always."

"Delta continuously reviews and enhances its policies and procedures for animals on board as part of its commitment to health, safety and protecting the rights of customers with disabilities," it added.

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Snakes just have such a bad reputation, honestly dogs, cats and birds are scarier than most snakes.

I have to wonder if this was a real "ESA", one that's been trained to work as such...I really doubt it. I suspect this was yet another person making that claim
just to get their dog on board with them, & didn't care one bit about risking other passengers: people are closely packed together on planes & eye contact is
easily misread by dogs, plus the unfamiliar transportation is frightening (think about the sensitive hearing that dogs possess). This was inexcusable, I feel so
sorry for victim Marlin Jackson, and by the way, I love dogs but even I'd have been uncomfortable taking that seat. People are not truthful about what is or
is not a genuine "service animal" & getting bit in the face on any flight is an outrage. I think documents may have been forged showing this dog as an ESA.

Yep. People at my office act like my snakes are scary, I tell people all the time though, if there is one animal in my house that I would really fear if it turned on me, it's my Great Dane. He could crush my bones in his jaws. Snake might draw a little blood, but that dog is far more powerful in the long run.

I can’t stand this stuff, If that 50 pound dog bit me, that “emotional support animal” Would now be a dead “traumatic experience animal” as it’s skull was bashed in... self defense allows the lethal force against an animal.

ESA's don't belong outside your home or with you in your vehicle if you're driving. A service dog is different and they're highly trained. They need to ban ESA's from public places, otherwise these types of incidents are going to happen more often.

Who complains about snakes on a plane? I get my venomous shipped Delta and honestly the people never really know what's on it, so there's that lol.

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Originally Posted by Neal

ESA's don't belong outside your home or with you in your vehicle if you're driving. A service dog is different and they're highly trained. They need to ban ESA's from public places, otherwise these types of incidents are going to happen more often....

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If someone needs an ESA with them, why can't they function as such AND be restrained at the same time??? ie. in an airline kennel when traveling at the owner's side?
It's just ridiculous to allow a large dog on a plane the way this one was (& I'm a lifelong dog lover & dog owner)...it should have been muzzled at the very least.

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Originally Posted by Neal

...I get my venomous shipped Delta and honestly the people never really know what's on it, so there's that lol.

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It doesn't sound to me like "honestly" is the right word for this...:rolleyes: The only legal air shipping is done with accurate labels as to contents
& applicable warning labels. This is the kind of thing that gives hot keepers a bad name, IMO...taking chances with other people's lives.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It doesn't sound to me like "honestly" is the right word for this...:rolleyes: The only legal air shipping is done with accurate labels as to contents
& applicable warning labels. This is the kind of thing that gives hot keepers a bad name, IMO...taking chances with other people's lives.

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It's completely legal to ship venomous via Delta Cargo. When I said people honestly don't know, I mean the people flying on the plane. The staff that load and unload the plane know what's on there because it has a big Live Animal Sticker than papers taped on it that say VENOMOUS SNAKES and you have to write the species on the outside of the shipping container.

So the passengers flying on the plane have no idea what's actually on the plane. When large constrictors get to a certain size you have to ship them this way as well through Delta Cargo.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

If someone needs an ESA with them, why can't they function as such AND be restrained at the same time??? ie. in an airline kennel when traveling at the owner's side?
It's just ridiculous to allow a large dog on a plane the way this one was (& I'm a lifelong dog lover & dog owner)...it should have been muzzled at the very least.

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Let's be realistic when we talk about people needing ESA's here, the people who actually have them because they want versus really need. ESA's weren't even a thing until people made it a big deal a few years back then people wanted to start saying they were just like service dogs.

ESA's in a Kennel still in the interior of the plane bark, and prevent people from sleeping, plus it makes an irritating flight, so no they shouldn't be by the owners side, if the owner can't accept that, then drive.

I do agree it was stupid to allow a large dog on a plane though. Service dogs go through so much training and listen to commands, an ESA is no more than a pet animal. I don't say this to be mean or anything but it's bull. I mean if this is the case I want to start taking my cobra with me as my ESA, right who said it has to be a dog, or why not a crocodile?

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Originally Posted by Neal

ESA's in a Kennel still in the interior of the plane bark, and prevent people from sleeping, plus it makes an irritating flight, so no they shouldn't be by the owners side, if the owner can't accept that, then drive.

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I want to say dogs in kennels are still allowed on planes though- at least sometimes. And they don't even need to be ESA's.

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Originally Posted by Neal

It's completely legal to ship venomous via Delta Cargo. When I said people honestly don't know, I mean the people flying on the plane. The staff that load and unload the plane know what's on there because it has a big Live Animal Sticker than papers taped on it that say VENOMOUS SNAKES and you have to write the species on the outside of the shipping container.

So the passengers flying on the plane have no idea what's actually on the plane. When large constrictors get to a certain size you have to ship them this way as well through Delta Cargo.

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I understand what Neal is saying perfectly, I too, used delta for years back in the early nineties. No one is put at danger. Most people handling the package never really know what’s inside (or care, they’re busy moving thousands of packages).I worked for the largest airfreight company in the world out of ORD. I sure the packages are marked properly, you really don’t want to get caught doing that kinda stuff. Peace.

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Originally Posted by Neal

It's completely legal to ship venomous via Delta Cargo. When I said people honestly don't know, I mean the people flying on the plane. The staff that load and unload the plane know what's on there because it has a big Live Animal Sticker than papers taped on it that say VENOMOUS SNAKES and you have to write the species on the outside of the shipping container.

So the passengers flying on the plane have no idea what's actually on the plane. When large constrictors get to a certain size you have to ship them this way as well through Delta Cargo.

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Sorry that I misunderstood you...I thought you meant that you were shipping unlabeled as freight (as some people really do, illegally of course) & I'm GLAD to know
that's not the case, I didn't expect that of you. Since many people may read what is posted here, it's a good thing we cleared that up. I know how to ship hots...I've
had to ship a few myself, years ago. And when I did so, some of the airport personnel recounted to me that they've had close calls with venomous snakes that were
not double-boxed as required, and when they went to lift the crate by the hand-hold cut-outs, a snake that had escaped from the bag inside started to come out of
where they were about to put their hands! :O So again, thank you for clarifying what you posted...if it wasn't clear to me, it probably wasn't clear to others as well.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Let's be realistic when we talk about people needing ESA's here, the people who actually have them because they want versus really need. ESA's weren't even a thing until people made it a big deal a few years back then people wanted to start saying they were just like service dogs.

ESA's in a Kennel still in the interior of the plane bark, and prevent people from sleeping, plus it makes an irritating flight, so no they shouldn't be by the owners side, if the owner can't accept that, then drive.

I do agree it was stupid to allow a large dog on a plane though. Service dogs go through so much training and listen to commands, an ESA is no more than a pet animal. I don't say this to be mean or anything but it's bull. I mean if this is the case I want to start taking my cobra with me as my ESA, right who said it has to be a dog, or why not a crocodile?

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Perhaps because certain corporations make a lot of money this way our country seems to be in a perpetual state of military "involvement" (aka war) in various parts
of the world. That means we have no shortage of former service-members who may need an ESA, just as some civilians do. Just because this wasn't a "thing" before
doesn't mean it isn't helpful to many people now, but it also doesn't preclude some from abusing the system. I agree the situation needs clarified & regulated, but that
takes leadership, with knowledgeable people in charge who actually CARE, to get this done...I don't see that happening currently, but I remain hopeful for the future. ;)

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Originally Posted by Neal

...ESA's in a Kennel still in the interior of the plane bark, and prevent people from sleeping, plus it makes an irritating flight, so no they
shouldn't be by the owners side, if the owner can't accept that, then drive...

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By the way, I get where you're coming from, it's irritating that people can abuse the system & that needs to be fixed, but by this criteria (making noise & disturbing
others) perhaps all babies & tantrum-prone children should be in the hold of the plane too? Or would you make all parents drive as well? Whether you realize it or not,
the reality is that we're all feeling the effects of living in a more stressed & crowded world, & instead of hostility, we need to work on getting along -on making it work.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

By the way, I get where you're coming from, it's irritating that people can abuse the system & that needs to be fixed, but by this criteria (making noise & disturbing
others) perhaps all babies & tantrum-prone children should be in the hold of the plane too? Or would you make all parents drive as well? Whether you realize it or not,
the reality is that we're all feeling the effects of living in a more stressed & crowded world, & instead of hostility, we need to work on getting along -on making it work.

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I get what you're saying also, but it's legal to keep an animal in a kennel in the hold. It's not legal to do that with a human so the comparison isn't really a comparison. If I'm flying somewhere and they have a baby, if it's over an hour flight I have asked to be moved to a different flight. It's never happened to me before on an international, but that's a little different and I sleep on those flights anyways because I'm prescribed stuff to help me sleep. I can't do that on a US based flight because of what I take.

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Originally Posted by Neal

...If I'm flying somewhere and they have a baby, if it's over an hour flight I have asked to be moved to a different flight. It's never happened to me before on an international, but that's a little different and I sleep on those flights anyways because I'm prescribed stuff to help me sleep. I can't do that on a US based flight because of what I take.

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I wouldn't want a long flight next to a baby (or spoiled child) either- not that I sleep during flights, I just don't want to hear it, lol. So far it's never happened...been lucky.

Anyway, back to dogs on flights, it's outrageous that it wasn't adequately restrained...both owner & airline are responsible, seems to me. And stuff like
this shouldn't have to happen before they know better & prevent it. I wouldn't mind sitting next to a well-behaved AND restrained dog on a flight though.
In fact, I'd probably prefer it...:D

I have a friend that trains service dogs (she worked with a group in TX that trains mobility and hearing dogs) and she HATES stuff like this.

According to her, ESAs don't have to go through rigorous training or temperament testing to prove that they will be safe in public and most are pets without special training. The designation of ESA refers to the person/patient needing the animal for emotional reasons, not the qualities of the animal itself. Legally, they are not required to be allowed in public places.. I believe the only legal requirement is for landlords/housing, and airline travel and places of employment (with restrictions on safety and the other staff taken into account).

As far as I know, small dogs and cats are allowed in cabin if in approved carriers that fit under the owner's seat and you have to pay an additional fee to allow them to travel that way. If the animal and carrier don't fit under the seat, they have to fly in cargo in an approved carrier and this prevents larger dogs from being in cabin just due to size.

IMO a good way for airlines to crack down on this is to require any ESA owner having an ESA (even a small one) outside of a carrier to carry and show proof of liability insurance on the animal in the case of a bite. Liability for animal bites is expensive and I'm sure if someone legitly needed an ESA, they'd pony up the cash for it and if not...that would negate the point of scamming the system to get your animal a free plane ride (it cost around $150 to have your animal fly in cabin I think and insurance would be a lot more than that annually). I'd be all for proof of insurance being required for service dogs as well (that enter public places where dogs aren't allowed). This would cut down on scammers and I'm sure animals trained with legitimate service dogs places would be able to get insurance at a much lower rate. Of course, this could just open up another can of worms in terms of scammers (bogus insurance companies, etc.) but there's a way around everything.

And so it happens again...another bite from an ESA:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/a...rnd/index.html

ESA are not service animals. They are not covered by the same laws that SA are. There is no training, they don't perform any particular tasks other than having a calming presences for their owner. They do help their people who suffer from different types of anxiety. I believe the laws regarding them are they can not be denied housing, even if the place doesn't allow pets or certain breeds and (for some reason) they are allowed on planes, but not other public transport. You can not take them into places that do not allow animals. The problem is that they are not trained to behave and are not normally exposed to various situations. It sounds like this dog was scared and uncomfortable in the situation. The article says that the 'dog attacked without warning...' but said it growled before that. I'd bet that the dog gave lots of warnings that it was uncomfortable and the owner ignored them. So many people believe that their dogs would never bite, or that they have human logic. I feel bad for the guy that was attacked, I feel bad for the dog that was put into this situation. It is owners like this that give all ESA a bad name. They do a huge service for their people, but most people don't realize what it is they actually do or the laws regarding them.

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Originally Posted by Annageckos

ESA are not service animals. They are not covered by the same laws that SA are. There is no training, they don't perform any particular tasks other than having a calming presences for their owner. They do help their people who suffer from different types of anxiety. I believe the laws regarding them are they can not be denied housing, even if the place doesn't allow pets or certain breeds and (for some reason) they are allowed on planes, but not other public transport. You can not take them into places that do not allow animals. The problem is that they are not trained to behave and are not normally exposed to various situations. It sounds like this dog was scared and uncomfortable in the situation. The article says that the 'dog attacked without warning...' but said it growled before that. I'd bet that the dog gave lots of warnings that it was uncomfortable and the owner ignored them. So many people believe that their dogs would never bite, or that they have human logic. I feel bad for the guy that was attacked, I feel bad for the dog that was put into this situation. It is owners like this that give all ESA a bad name. They do a huge service for their people, but most people don't realize what it is they actually do or the laws regarding them.

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I totally agree. All this was preventable...this dog could still have served as an ESA with a muzzle on. :rolleyes: Needs to be a law, unfortunately, because uneducated owners
are actually the cause. Planes are frightening for dogs, whose hearing is far more acute, & it wouldn't surprise me if there are sounds that hurt their ears, causing them to
panic & misbehave, especially when you put them in cramped quarters with so many strangers...it's a sensory over-load.