juvenile ball python WILL NOT EAT!!

Disclaimer: I've included a LOT of details in this post, I figure the more info I provide the better. Sorry in advance for the wordiness!

We (my daughter and I) are brand-new ball-python parents. Our BP is young, only about a foot long. His name is Dexter. Lately, we haven't been able to get him to eat, and we have no idea why. Any help is appreciated! We are so frustrated and scared that he is going to starve!

His eyes aren't cloudy, so I don't think he's shedding.

Here is a timeline of events:

4/26 Brought him home. We have a 20-gallon enclosure. At the time, he had cedar bedding and a 40-watt red heat bulb.
4/30 Fed him 4 days later (according to the feeding schedule of the store where we got him), small mouse. He ate it, but regurgitated a few hours later.
5/12 Fed him a pinkie mouse, he ate it.
5/16 Put new type of mulch ("forest floor") and a log into enclosure.
5/17 Tried to feed him 2 pinkies, he didn't eat them.
5/18 Realized temp in his enclosure was too low (high 70s) due to local weather change--changed to 100-watt bulb with white light. Also put 2 more pinkie mice in enclosure which he didn't eat.
5/20 Tried to feed him 2 pinkies again, in the middle of the night. Turned off light, to see if that was the problem. He still refused to eat. (Only left the light off for a little while because I didn't want him to get cold.)
5/21 Talked to guy at pet store, he told use to not use heat lights and just use a heat mat. Mat didn’t work--glass got very hot, mulch didn’t heat at all
5/23 Got new 100-watt bulb, red this time, enclosure is now at around 90 degrees.
5/24 Put another pinkie in. He poked his head out and sniffed it for a few minutes, opened his mouth at one point, but still didn’t eat.
5/25 He was out of his hide drinking water and poking around the enclosure, so we put another pinkie mouse in. Still didn’t eat it.

There are so many mistakes here first NO MORE cedar it is TOXIC.

Pinkies are also not adequate for a Ball Python those are colubrid food, a BP out of the egg will get a hopper as a minimum for his first meal.

NO HANDLING until the animal has at least 3 consecutive successful meals.

Do this to a T https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101 and I mean to a T until the animals gains weight and is a strong feeder than put him in a 10 gallons tank than at 500 grams 20 gallons tank.

Also worth to go over this https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ips-and-Tricks because the last person you should listen to is a pet store employee.

You've got LOTS of homework to do. This is why we research animals BEFORE we bring them home.

Do your snake a favor and read all you can. Your snake isn't eating for many reasons. But first get your husbandry right.

1) not doing research was your first mistake.
2) listening to pet store employees was your second.

We're happy to help you out, but you've got a lot to learn so studying care sheets and doing your own independent research is your best bet.
You're going to come across lots of varying info, because there's no one "right" way. But learn from reliable, experienced snake keepers and you'll be able to get on track in no time.

Once you've done your research please ask questions about what you're unsure of and we'll help you out.

So I actually did a lot of reading BEFORE I brought him home. I've read several care sheets, and have followed advice from the ones that seem the most legit. Also, the pet store employee has a BP and has owned it for several years...he's not just some rando that works in a pet store.

My BP's enclosure is warm and humid, with dual climates. He has two hides, one on the warm side and one on the cool. He ate on his first feeding day after we brought him home and we did NOT handle him for the first 48 hours after feeding. I don't know why he regurgitated the larger mouse, but when we fed him the first pinkie he ate that too, and kept it down. We haven't handled him since he stopped eating. When we realized his temp was too low we fixed it. We also changed the color of the light back to what he seemed more comfortable with. I'm really nervous about the heat pad because the glass got REALLY hot, but the mulch did not get warm at all, in spite of it being only about half and inch thick in that area. We've fed him at night since he is a nocturnal animal.

I have followed literally ALL of the rules I've read on multiple sites, and he is still not eating.

I really have read all I can from the internet about how to care for this animal, and most of it came from this site. That's why I decided to post here. I thought you all would be able to help me.

Please stop condescending me, and just offer me whatever advice you have at this point.

First, I was mistaken about his original mulch, it wasn't cedar, it was aspen. We changed to the forest floor stuff because I read that it retains moisture better, and therefore provides better humidity in the habitat.

Also, out of all the info I read, nothing said not to handle him until he had had 3 consecutive meals. Is this why he's not eating? We haven't handled him since the last time he ate, 2 weeks ago.

As for the forum you directed me to about the stressed hatchling, do we do that now, even though he has been in his habitat for almost a month? He is hiding in his hide most of the time, and everything I've read says that "a hiding ball python is a happy ball python." I'm worried that changing his habitat now will stress him out more, is that not the case?

Finally, the pet store employee I spoke with is a ball python owner and has been for several years, not just some dude working in a pet store, which is why I thought it safe to take his advice.

Follow debs advice to a T. Follow it exactly.

Second...some of us "pet store employees" know what we are talking about so knock it off! (Not directed at the op).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Follow debs advice to a T. Follow it exactly.

Second...some of us "pet store employees" know what we are talking about so knock it off! (Not directed at the op).

---

There are exceptions to the rule. But most are clueless.

I'll be honest here and say that it does not sound to me like you've done very much reading on this site due to the key points we reiterate over and over being completely missed by you somehow. You say you're surprised to hear if the 3 meals rule for handling and yet it is one of the most repeated pieces of advice...

We are very avid at telling people to use thermostats for ALL heat sources (glass getting too hot on UTH is NOT possible with a thermostat unless you as the owner set it improperly)

Also, we ALWAYS tell new owners to handle only after 3 consecutive meals at a normal interval. Before this, they're still settling and handling could add just enough stress to give refusals that early on.

There are threads from just about every week where one of us has posted one or both of those things for the entire time I've been on the forum. Sometimes several instances in a single day.

Deb is among the most experienced on here and has had to tell hundreds of new keepers over and over this same information. It is not intended to be condescending, but it is brisk and to the point (after repeating yourself so many times, I'm sure you'd also be rather blunt about it). The threads she linked were created for the purpose of giving new owners good resources to follow, particularly for trouble feeders.

I advise you take a step back and consider the advice above to be given in a blunt but helpful tone before responding. Tone is often lost in text, so it is easy to read something as more harsh than it was intended. Being defensive of criticism or suggestions does not help anyone and we truly do want to help your snake.

Everyone here has made mistakes at one point or another, but the key is to learn from them and be open to learning what does work when you find you've made a mistake.

Keep in mind, there are plenty of bad pet owners of any type. Just because someone managed to keep a snake alive doesn't mean that they necessarily have ideal husbandry or techniques. Not saying your pet store employee IS a bad keeper, but some advice is outdated now (i.e. red lights on 24/7 is stressful since snakes do see red light. This was not previously known and was commonly advised and is now less than ideal husbandry to use constantly. Isntead CHEs are advised as they emit no light.) There exist poor owners with seemingly healthy snakes who think they're doing everything perfectly.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dextersmom

So I actually did a lot of reading BEFORE I brought him home. I've read several care sheets, and have followed advice from the ones that seem the most legit. Also, the pet store employee has a BP and has owned it for several years...he's not just some rando that works in a pet store.

My BP's enclosure is warm and humid, with dual climates. He has two hides, one on the warm side and one on the cool. He ate on his first feeding day after we brought him home and we did NOT handle him for the first 48 hours after feeding. I don't know why he regurgitated the larger mouse, but when we fed him the first pinkie he ate that too, and kept it down. We haven't handled him since he stopped eating. When we realized his temp was too low we fixed it. We also changed the color of the light back to what he seemed more comfortable with. I'm really nervous about the heat pad because the glass got REALLY hot, but the mulch did not get warm at all, in spite of it being only about half and inch thick in that area. We've fed him at night since he is a nocturnal animal.

I have followed literally ALL of the rules I've read on multiple sites, and he is still not eating.

I really have read all I can from the internet about how to care for this animal, and most of it came from this site. That's why I decided to post here. I thought you all would be able to help me.

Please stop condescending me, and just offer me whatever advice you have at this point.

---

Nobody is condescending you. We're trying to help.

But if you did enough research you'd know you MUST REGULATE ALL HEAT SOURCES with a thermostat.

Your temps wouldn't have been too low

You don't measure the temp of substrate, but the glass surface itself.

Pinkies aren't even recognized by BPs as food because they're WWWWAAAAAYYYYY too small.

Just because someone has a pet doesn't mean it's properly cared for. If this employee has a snake and didn't tell you that a thermostat is A MUST, he doesn't know what he's talking about. If he told you to feed a pinkie he doesn't know what he's talking about.

This forum mentions the "3 meals before handling" almost every day. It's in countless threads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

I'll be honest here and say that it does not sound to me like you've done very much reading on this site due to the key points we reiterate over and over being completely missed by you somehow. You say you're surprised to hear if the 3 meals rule for handling and yet it is one of the most repeated pieces of advice...

We are very avid at telling people to use thermostats for ALL heat sources (glass getting too hot on UTH is NOT possible with a thermostat unless you as the owner set it improperly)

Also, we ALWAYS tell new owners to handle only after 3 consecutive meals at a normal interval. Before this, they're still settling and handling could add just enough stress to give refusals that early on.

There are threads from just about every week where one of us has posted one or both of those things for the entire time I've been on the forum. Sometimes several instances in a single day.

Deb is among the most experienced on here and has had to tell hundreds of new keepers over and over this same information. It is not intended to be condescending, but it is brisk and to the point (after repeating yourself so many times, I'm sure you'd also be rather blunt about it). The threads she linked were created for the purpose of giving new owners good resources to follow, particularly for trouble feeders.

I advise you take a step back and consider the advice above to be given in a blunt but helpful tone before responding. Tone is often lost in text, so it is easy to read something as more harsh than it was intended. Being defensive of criticism or suggestions does not help anyone and we truly do want to help your snake.

Everyone here has made mistakes at one point or another, but the key is to learn from them and be open to learning what does work when you find you've made a mistake.

Keep in mind, there are plenty of bad pet owners of any type. Just because someone managed to keep a snake alive doesn't mean that they necessarily have ideal husbandry or techniques. Not saying your pet store employee IS a bad keeper, but some advice is outdated now (i.e. red lights on 24/7 is stressful since snakes do see red light. This was not previously known and was commonly advised and is now less than ideal husbandry to use constantly. Isntead CHEs are advised as they emit no light.) There exist poor owners with seemingly healthy snakes who think they're doing everything perfectly.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

---

Very well said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dextersmom

I don't know why he regurgitated the larger mouse, but when we fed him the first pinkie he ate that too, and kept it down.

---

It's possible the original regurge was because of the cedar, I know he kept the second one down and then you changed out the bedding (good!) but it may have caused that first one. Usual other causes of regurg would be temps too low or high, stress or disease.
The hatchling care sheet Deb posted is a really good one. I hope he starts feeding for you again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

It's possible the original regurge was because of the cedar, I know he kept the second one down and then you changed out the bedding (good!) but it may have caused that first one. Usual other causes of regurg would be temps too low or high, stress or disease.
The hatchling care sheet Deb posted is a really good one. I hope he starts feeding for you again.

---

That's a good point. Also possible that the pinkies, being mostly water with little bone and no fur were just that easy to digest that even the low temps weren't an issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Nobody is condescending you. We're trying to help.

But if you did enough research you'd know you MUST REGULATE ALL HEAT SOURCES with a thermostat.

Your temps wouldn't have been too low

You don't measure the temp of substrate, but the glass surface itself.

Pinkies aren't even recognized by BPs as food because they're WWWWAAAAAYYYYY too small.

Just because someone has a pet doesn't mean it's properly cared for. If this employee has a snake and didn't tell you that a thermostat is A MUST, he doesn't know what he's talking about. If he told you to feed a pinkie he doesn't know what he's talking about.

This forum mentions the "3 meals before handling" almost every day. It's in countless threads.

---

We have a thermostat, that's how we knew the enclosure was too cold and the bulb was too weak when the weather changed.

Also, we know pinkies are too small on a regular basis, but since he had regurgitated his mouse, and didn't have the proper amount of digestive flora in his stomach, the pinkies were meant to be a temporary solution.

Finally most of the reading I've done hasn't been in this forum... There are LOTS of resources out there and I'm trying to synthesize all of it into usable advice. I came to this forum to ask questions and get clarification.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dextersmom

We have a thermostat, that's how we knew the enclosure was too cold and the bulb was too weak when the weather changed.

---

Are you sure you're not confusing a thermoSTAT with a thermoMETER? What you're describing sounds like a thermometer which only measures your temperatures, not regulate them like a thermostat does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

It's possible the original regurge was because of the cedar, I know he kept the second one down and then you changed out the bedding (good!) but it may have caused that first one. Usual other causes of regurg would be temps too low or high, stress or disease.
The hatchling care sheet Deb posted is a really good one. I hope he starts feeding for you again.

---

I was actually mistaken about the original mulch we used--it was Aspen. I think his temp was too low. Agreed, excellent care sheet from Deb, wish my search results had brought it to my attention a month ago! Thank you for your well wishes!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dextersmom

I really have read all I can from the internet about how to care for this animal, and most of it came from this site. That's why I decided to post here. I thought you all would be able to help me.

Please stop condescending me, and just offer me whatever advice you have at this point.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dextersmom

We have a thermostat, that's how we knew the enclosure was too cold and the bulb was too weak when the weather changed.

Also, we know pinkies are too small on a regular basis, but since he had regurgitated his mouse, and didn't have the proper amount of digestive flora in his stomach, the pinkies were meant to be a temporary solution.

Finally most of the reading I've done hasn't been in this forum... There are LOTS of resources out there and I'm trying to synthesize all of it into usable advice. I came to this forum to ask questions and get clarification.

---

Well which is it?????? One says "most came from this site"...the other says "most of the reading I've done hasn't been in this forum"




Ok, a THERMOSTAT and a THERMOMETER are not the same thing.

A thermometer only reads the temp.
A thermostat regulates heat output. Just like in a home.

Research would have taught you that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissterDog

Are you sure you're not confusing a thermoSTAT with a thermoMETER? What you're describing sounds like a thermometer which only measures your temperatures, not regulate them like a thermostat does.

---

We have both. 2 hygrometer/thermometers inside, one on the cool side and one in the warm, and a thermostat hooked up to the heat lamp on the warm side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

There are so many mistakes here first NO MORE cedar it is TOXIC.

Pinkies are also not adequate for a Ball Python those are colubrid food, a BP out of the egg will get a hopper as a minimum for his first meal.

NO HANDLING until the animal has at least 3 consecutive successful meals.

Do this to a T https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101 and I mean to a T until the animals gains weight and is a strong feeder than put him in a 10 gallons tank than at 500 grams 20 gallons tank.

Also worth to go over this https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ips-and-Tricks because the last person you should listen to is a pet store employee.

---

Deborah: I read your posts linked here and still have some questions. Would you mind if I DM you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Well which is it?????? One says "most came from this site"...the other says "most of the reading I've done hasn't been in this forum"




Ok, a THERMOSTAT and a THERMOMETER are not the same thing.

A thermometer only reads the temp.
A thermostat regulates heat output. Just like in a home.

Research would have taught you that.

---

My apologies for being unclear about my research... Most of the reading I did before and upon getting my BP was not in this forum. After I found this forum I read a TON of info but still had questions, which is why I posted.

Also, I clarified in another reply that I have both a thermostat and thermometers. RESEARCH taught me that I needed both so that's what I got when I brought him home.

Respectfully, please stop responding to my post. Everyone else here has been helpful, if a little curt. You however have had nothing to offer but disdain. As I tell my second graders, if you can't be kind or helpful or both, please stop talking.

Just want to say :welcome: I know how frustrating it is to be new at keeping BPs, also that "too many cooks spoil the broth" so I'll let you rely on Deborah...

For a "baby" (hatchling) BP, mouse pinkies are way too small (they can get stuck on their teeth as they try to eat them) & even a rat pink would have been too small.
Don't worry, you'll get all this...BPs are NOT easy beginner snakes, but so many are encouraged to start with them because they're docile, stay a nice size & are pretty.
They don't always tell you they need so much monitoring as to temps. & humidity, with more cage warmth than many other choices, and that while they usually eat
reliably when young, they frustrate many keepers as adults when they fast unpredictably (not always in winter) & can be very fussy eaters. Welcome to "the club". ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Just want to say :welcome: I know how frustrating it is to be new at keeping BPs, also that "too many cooks spoil the broth" so I'll let you rely on Deborah...

For a "baby" (hatchling) BP, mouse pinkies are way too small (they can get stuck on their teeth as they try to eat them) & even a rat pink would have been too small.
Don't worry, you'll get all this...BPs are NOT easy beginner snakes, but so many are encouraged to start with them because they're docile, stay a nice size & are pretty.
They don't always tell you they need so much monitoring as to temps. & humidity, with more cage warmth than many other choices, and that while they usually eat
reliably when young, they frustrate many keepers as adults when they fast unpredictably (not always in winter) & can be very fussy eaters. Welcome to "the club". ;)

---

Thank you so much for the understanding and kind words!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dextersmom

Thank you so much for the understanding and kind words!

---

Despite what you may have wondered, we're glad to have you join us...it's easier when you have experienced ppl to talk things over with, not like when I first got
into keeping snakes: there were no forums, & all library books were from the age of dinosaurs...;) -It seems so primitive now, to think we actually had to TALK to
each other...:rofl: Anyway, it will get easier.... and snakes are addicting, even when they frustrate us. :D :snake:

I just want to apologize. I could have come across nicer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

I just want to apologize. I could have come across nicer.

---

Yeah I was going to post earlier but I couldn’t. U came across as an ... well u know.


op sometimes it’s hard to understand Anyone when they are typing. We’re here to help and we do have the best advice out there on bp’s! So plz stay around and don’t argue about the details that deb gave u because she is the queen here with these spicy noodles!

Third, the community shouldn’t be running newbs off by offending them. If they are here to ask for help then they have the most important thing done, they care. So plz stop throwing stones from your glass house people.