I might be in trouble

I recently purchased a breeder size Het dreamsicle female that I was planning on breeding next season after I had everything 100% ready. Well the breeder I bought her from paired her up in December and didn’t think that the pairing was successful and moved on. I came home today to a clutch of 5 eggs(1 slug).

With the knowledge I have so far from this forum I knew letting her self incubate didn’t give me great odds for the eggs hatching so I went to tractor supply got a chicken incubator, 6qt sterilite container, perlite, light diffuser/grid and did what I could do.

At first I had the perlite damp and my temperature was sitting right about 90 and humidity 50% I know this is too low for humidity so I added a water bowl outside the egg box and sealed up 90% of the seams and holes in the incubator and added
more water to the perlite all I got so far was a 5% increase in humidity so still too low. Temperature is still holding. I also saran wrapped the egg box and taped it down.

I’d appreciate any suggestions at this point and how long do I have before the eggs start getting damaged due to low humidity?


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You would be better off with a styrofoam cooler amd a heat source inside it.
Are you sure you are getting correct humidity readings?
Are the eggs still plump or are they starting to dimple?

They have slight dimples but nothing too serious

I added another tub full of perlite and warm water in the incubator and the humidity is rising.

What is my best option for a heat source I can get in the next 18-24 hrs? I know I can get heat mats but will that be enough? And if i do set up a cooler should I put the heat source on the sides or bottom? I know I can’t get heat tape unless I order it online but idk how much time I have. Thanks


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Bottom or side will will work as long as your thermostat is good.
If you are planning on breeding soon, build one you can use later too.

Ok so basically I’m using the incubator as a cooler now as it is completely styrofoam. I unplugged the heat source it came with and installed a heat mat underneath the tub full of perlite and warm water and set my jump start thermostat at 90°. My probe is inside the incubator not inside the egg box but I do have a acurite digital gauge for the egg box.

I took the lid off the egg box and left the saran wrap on, I added a second humidity gauge inside the egg box and it is reading 99% which is the maximum it can read.
Temp is climbing slowly but it should be able to heat this incubator as it is no bigger than a 10 gallon aquarium.


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Quote:

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I added a water bowl outside the egg box

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A water bowl in the incubator near the egg tub is not gonna do anything, you need to have the right amount of water and the lid on your tub so moisture stays in the tub. (humidity in the incubator itself is irrelevant)


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-egg-tub-setup

Ok I put the lid back on egg box and took the water bowl out, one more question I have is do I need a small fan? Incubator did not come with one but I’ve seen incubators with and without fans.

This is a small incubator that you can fit at most 2 clutches.


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Thanks for chiming in Deb I always appreciate your input!


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If you your using a heat mat, I would mount it on the side so it's not in direct contact with the egg box and then you should be fine with or without a fan because it's a small area to warm. Most important thing is, just make sure to have a good thermostat, I like herpstat myself.
Good luck with the clutch!

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Originally Posted by Ballday

Ok I put the lid back on egg box and took the water bowl out, one more question I have is do I need a small fan? Incubator did not come with one but I’ve seen incubators with and without fans.

This is a small incubator that you can fit at most 2 clutches.


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With an incubator that small I would not bother, I used to have a 120 quarts incubator holding (8) 6 quarts tubs and never used a fan, now in a fridge or something similar yes it's recommended.

Hopefully everything is dialed in now and stays that way lol I wasn’t ready for this at all and I’m hoping for the best outcome possible, 58 days puts me out to the middle of July so ill post an update then.

The male was a vanilla pied just if anyone was wondering.

Thanks again for the fast and great advice everyone.



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So i am just about at day 30 now and 2 of the eggs are extremely deflated and the other 2 are extremely dimpled but all still are showing strong veins. Temp is at 89° and humidity is at 99% eggs are on top of light diffuser on top of soupy perlite, with cling wrap and lid on top. Is there anything I can do to plump them up? I’ll post pictures soon


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...62867af78d.jpg


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I preferred press and seal over cling wrap to keep the humidity high. With press and seal it creates a tighter seal plus if you get humidity build up it stick to the stickiness of it rather than the cling wrap isn’t air tight and moisture will run on it and drip on the eggs. Everyone is different but that’s what worked best for me. Good luck

I meant to say press n seal sorry


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I tried using light diffusers with substrate and with only water, they all went in the trash.
I use vermiculite and place the eggs straight in it.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I tried using light diffusers with substrate and with only water, they all went in the trash.
I use vermiculite and place the eggs straight in it.

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That's great that you found something that works for you but I fail to see how a plastic light diffuser could have anything to do with your eggs going bad. It also isn't very helpful to say because if he removes the light diffuser it will have no impact at this time unless his mix isn't right and then removing the light diffuser will actually kill his eggs.

Would damp paper towels over the eggs help?


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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I tried using light diffusers with substrate and with only water, they all went in the trash.
I use vermiculite and place the eggs straight in it.

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That was always my method for incubating eggs too (not BP eggs, if it matters) & it worked quite well for me. Eggs about 2/3 covered by vermiculite, & top 1/3 clear.
Container had plastic wrap over it with a few pin holes for air circulation.

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Originally Posted by Ballday

Would damp paper towels over the eggs help?


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Might smother ("drown") them that way, but yes, it would help humidify them. Not ideal, tops should be clear for air exchange.

Your eggs really look too dry to me, & I know many others have successfully used light-diffuser method, not sure what's going on
with yours.

If you're vermiculite or perlite or whatever substrate you're using is wet, you have them in a closed tub with no air holes, it is impossible for the humidity to not be near 99%. So if that is how you have it setup plus the press and seal, your humidity will be fine but you have to stop opening it, that's what's letting all the humidity out, close it and leave it. Then just be patient until they hatch.

If you have air holes or you're substrate is not damp, fix those issues and stop opening it and your humidity will go up and be fine.

Yes they definitely are too dry, I added more water to the perlite and raised the temperature to 90 I’m thinking more heat more humidity.

If I placed the egg box directly over the heat mat but put something between the egg box and heat mat so it’s not in direct contact with it would I be safe? This is just a thought that maybe the heat source isn’t close enough to produce enough humidity.

If I can make them last to day 50 and cut a small slit in the eggs so the hatchlings don’t get crushed would this benefit them?


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Originally Posted by rufretic

If you're vermiculite or perlite or whatever substrate you're using is wet, you have them in a closed tub with no air holes, it is impossible for the humidity to not be near 99%. So if that is how you have it setup plus the press and seal, your humidity will be fine but you have to stop opening it, that's what's letting all the humidity out, close it and leave it. Then just be patient until they hatch.

If you have air holes or you're substrate is not damp, fix those issues and stop opening it and your humidity will go up and be fine.

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I haven’t opened the tub or incubator at all since they’ve been in there I decided to check the perlite to see if I need to add water and saw that the eggs weren’t looking too good. But hopefully they will be [emoji1695]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballday

I haven’t opened the tub or incubator at all since they’ve been in there I decided to check the perlite to see if I need to add water and saw that the eggs weren’t looking too good. But hopefully they will be [emoji1695]


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If the tub was sealed then it wouldn't of lost humidity so that means it probably wasn't wet enough to begin with. If you added enough water to it and resealed it, that's really all you can do, the humidity will go up. I agree they could of been too dry but it is also possible they are getting close to hatching, they do start to deflate as they get closer to the hatch date but yours look a bit too much being that you still have a ways to go. If you added water to make sure they aren't going to dry out, then just seal it back up and wait it out. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by rufretic

That's great that you found something that works for you but I fail to see how a plastic light diffuser could have anything to do with your eggs going bad. It also isn't very helpful to say because if he removes the light diffuser it will have no impact at this time unless his mix isn't right and then removing the light diffuser will actually kill his eggs.

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Since well, just because.....
If the mud is damp enough they will absorb moisture though the skin.
Problem is that its too early for them to be that dry and the egg can harden to a point that cutting will be to only option to salvage any that make it to full term.
They can start to mold and the move can also kill them or agitate them enough that they may tangle their cords.
Its a gamble either way at this stage.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Since well, just because.....
If the mud is damp enough they will absorb moisture though the skin.
Problem is that its too early for them to be that dry and the egg can harden to a point that cutting will be to only option to salvage any that make it to full term.
They can start to mold and the move can also kill them or agitate them enough that they may tangle their cords.
Its a gamble either way at this stage.

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Are you suggesting to put them into damp substrate and cut the eggs?


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I had a similar issue when I was away and my wife messed up the perilite to water ratio, I came back and my eggs started to deflate around 30 days or so. I placed a wet paper towel over them for a few days and it fixed the issue. After this mess I started using a light diffuser in my tubs and wet the heck out of the perilite. I have no air holes, arrange eggs to not touch the sides of the tub and press and seal tub before covering. Congrats on the clutch, always a nice bonus to buy a female that drops eggs.

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Originally Posted by Ballday

Are you suggesting to put them into damp substrate and cut the eggs?


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Not cutting now, NO!
If it was my clutch, i would mix another tub of mud and put it in the bator next to that one for a day to come up to temp and move them. FYI, thats the gamble I would take, what you do is up to you.

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Originally Posted by mdb730

I had a similar issue when I was away and my wife messed up the perilite to water ratio, I came back and my eggs started to deflate around 30 days or so. I placed a wet paper towel over them for a few days and it fixed the issue. After this mess I started using a light diffuser in my tubs and wet the heck out of the perilite. I have no air holes, arrange eggs to not touch the sides of the tub and press and seal tub before covering. Congrats on the clutch, always a nice bonus to buy a female that drops eggs.

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Ok I’ll try the paper towel method, did you leave them in for the rest of the incubation period?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mdb730

I had a similar issue when I was away and my wife messed up the perilite to water ratio, I came back and my eggs started to deflate around 30 days or so. I placed a wet paper towel over them for a few days and it fixed the issue. After this mess I started using a light diffuser in my tubs and wet the heck out of the perilite. I have no air holes, arrange eggs to not touch the sides of the tub and press and seal tub before covering. Congrats on the clutch, always a nice bonus to buy a female that drops eggs.

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Ok I’ll try the paper towel method, did you leave them in for the rest of the incubation period?


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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Not cutting now, NO!
If it was my clutch, i would mix another tub of mud and put it in the bator next to that one for a day to come up to temp and move them. FYI, thats the gamble I would take, what you do is up to you.

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Can I put them on moist perlite? Or would I have to mix it with something else


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballday

Can I put them on moist perlite? Or would I have to mix it with something else


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I have only used vermiculite so I am not familiar how perlite holds water. Shouldnt be a problem as long as its not soaking wet

As I said, I haven't had any problems when I quit trying other things.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...052eeceb59.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...96bb8a77a2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...847ea078b1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9ef4b83f64.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fa965cf6f0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d6e18f4e46.jpg

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

As I said, I haven't had any problems when I quit trying other things.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...052eeceb59.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...96bb8a77a2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...847ea078b1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9ef4b83f64.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fa965cf6f0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d6e18f4e46.jpg

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Yea those look perfect


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Decided to cut at day 53, after losing 2 eggs in the past 2 1/2 weeks I didn’t have much hope that I’d have living babies in the 2 eggs left.

Well to my surprise I have 2 live baby ball pythons in the eggs. One looks like it’s just about fully developed and the other one is 1/2 it’s size with a lot of yolk left to absorb.

If and when this baby crawls out and if the yolk is still attached what are my best options? Separate tub with damp paper towels? Or should I tie it off with fishing line? Thanks!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...07ede8f24a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c29caaa02f.jpg


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You should have left these eggs alone to pip naturally...:tears: This is too early...if you're going to breed egg-laying snakes, learn to be patient & let THEM
cut the eggs. Wouldn't count on these crawling out...

Some eggs went bad...that's normal...what possessed you to cut the only good ones left?

Hi,

At day 53 you were a little early but I understand you were not expecting anything to be in there. :(

You are really going to have to be totally on top of the husbandry of the eggs to try and maximise your chances. Especially with cuts that wide.

Put a spray bottle of water in the incubator to make sure it is up to temperature and get some cotton buds. You are going to have to close the gaps over as best you can but you need to top up the eggs to prevent them drying out and remove any signs of infection or fungal growth in the eggs. You need to stop the egg white drying out and getting too sticky and thick but you need to make sure you don't add too much water at one go as, even with it in the incubator the spraying will cool it down a little. Obviously the level is set by the ege of the cut, which ( for future refference) is why people tend to make small v shaped cuts at the very top of the egg and candle first to avoid any major veins.

You still have a fairly good shot at getting nice healthy babies if you keep on top of things. Good luck and keep us posted. :gj:

As to your question it depends on whether the yolk gets absorbed into the body of the hatchling or not really - but any action should be a last resort. I'd wait until they have left the egg to decide to be honest, give them as much chance of absorbing nourishment from it as possible.

So am I just adding water to the eggs and sticking cotton around where I cut to reseal the egg?

As of today the smaller baby has been moving around in the egg quite a bit


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballday

So am I just adding water to the eggs and sticking cotton around where I cut to reseal the egg?

As of today the smaller baby has been moving around in the egg quite a bit


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No, your adding water to replace any egg white that was lost during cutting or rehydrating it if it starts to get too dry and gloopy.

The cotton buds are just for removing any debris or patches of fungus that end up developing inside the egg - it's too late to try and reseal as you have already compromised the immune system of the egg.

So one did come out of the egg today without it’s umbilical chord attached still has a little bit left on him though. weighing 18 grams, im assuming I shouldn’t let him shed out before I start feeding/assist feeding he does appear weak


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballday

So one did come out of the egg today without it’s umbilical chord attached still has a little bit left on him though. weighing 18 grams, im assuming I shouldn’t let him shed out before I start feeding/assist feeding he does appear weak


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No! Don’t force feed it. You shouldn’t even be breeding animals with this kind of ignorance, it’s a great responsibility and you should have done your research before ever starting on this project, it sounds like they will probably all die, but with internet search engines, you should be able to read hundreds of pages about breeding balls pythons properly.

It is probably too late for them, but you could at lest do some research now!

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

No! Don’t force feed it. You shouldn’t even be breeding animals with this kind of ignorance, it’s a great responsibility and you should have done your research before ever starting on this project, it sounds like they will probably all die, but with internet search engines, you should be able to read hundreds of pages about breeding balls pythons properly.

It is probably too late for them, but you could at lest do some research now!

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If you read from the beginning I did not breed this snake, I bought it and the seller did not think that it was gravid but 2 weeks after owning her she laid eggs.

I came here to ask for help throughout this process if you don’t have any information that can help me then don’t waste my time.

I knew from day 1 that these eggs didn’t have much of a chance since I was not expecting it, my local reptile shop told me to leave them in the tub with the female. Maybe I should of. I do regret cutting the eggs at day 53 but even if I waited and risked losing more eggs, at day 53 and only weighing 18 grams I don’t thing another 5 days would of made a huge difference.

I never said force feed I said assist


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https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...gram-hatchling

And here is an older thread I was reading with smaller hatchlings where just about everyone had to assist feed


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