Mice vs Rats

I’m just curious, if I’m feeding my ball python mice am I doing her a disservice? She’s more inclined to eat the mice, and she gets 1-2 jumbo mice per week. I think she looks pretty thick, but I was doing a little reading and am wondering if maybe I should try to get her interested in the rats?

She’s about 3 years old and 3ft long. I can weigh her tomorrow or Friday for reference. She’ll be moving back to the house with the scale then.

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She’s next to an iPhone 6s for reference. Lol


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Only difference is multiple mice vs single rat.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Only difference is multiple mice vs single rat.

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That’s good to know! I was getting the impression there was more nutritional value one way or the other that would effect growth.


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The main reason I switch them over to rats is that I only need to feed 1 prey item per meal. It's cheaper too.

I hear ALL the time, especially on Reddit, that rats are so much nutritionally better than mice. But never has anyone given a source for why and exactly what is different.

I looked for info and found this chart on Rodent Pro that looks legitimate to me.
https://www.rodentpro.com/informatio...ertebrate-prey

Mostly it is the multiple mice vs single rat. You can make the decision for yourself about nutrition with that chart.

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For two of my snakes I feed rats. My BP even though still relatively small (300g), I switched 6 feeds ago and (knocks on wood), he has taken them without any hesitation. I switched for the same reason as mentioned earlier, 1 rat vs multiple mice. Figured I better to do it while still young. My emerald tree boa was brought up on rat pinks with the breeder so when I got her, I was definitely keeping that the same. She now is chowing down on fuzzies

Once they get to be adults, feeding mice is a pain. You will have to have access to loads of mice. Cheaper and easier just to buy one rat per meal.

For me it's mostly a matter of time and energy efficiency. Like others have said, you'll be feeding 2-3 mice vs. 1 rat. For BPs, and other snakes that will never need anything larger than a small or medium rat, it's not too much of a hassle I guess. The cost difference isn't too bad either. My king snakes used to love mice and chicks, but they were hit or miss with rats, so I just fed them what they liked. I don't think that's sustainable for larger snakes or for those with large collections though.

These references are from the Perfect Prey website.

adult mice, 18-32g, @ $1 each
jumbo mice (retired breeders), 33-50g, @ $1.25 each

small rat, 50-89g, @ $2.25 each
medium rat, 90-150g, @ $2.75 each

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Originally Posted by Maddlesrain

I’m just curious, if I’m feeding my ball python mice am I doing her a disservice? She’s more inclined to eat the mice, and she gets 1-2 jumbo mice per week. I think she looks pretty thick, but I was doing a little reading and am wondering if maybe I should try to get her interested in the rats?

She’s about 3 years old and 3ft long. I can weigh her tomorrow or Friday for reference. She’ll be moving back to the house with the scale then.

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I have been pondering the same thought and have come to the conclusion that one small rat compared to multiple mice would have to be less skin and bone percentage. But absolutely no proof or studies but just my thinking, hey that's alot of skin and bones and not much meat or muscle with mice. But that's just my thinking. Plus the other reasons stated for buying rat instead. I like keeping the rat on the small side and not getting too big a one.

Also you said 3 years old and 3 ft. I think it's possible you have a male there instead of a female, lets see what some others say about it.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

I have been pondering the same thought and have come to the conclusion that one small rat compared to multiple mice would have to be less skin and bone percentage. But absolutely no proof or studies but just my thinking, hey that's alot of skin and bones and not much meat or muscle with mice. But that's just my thinking. Plus the other reasons stated for buying rat instead. I like keeping the rat on the small side and not getting too big a one.

Also you said 3 years old and 3 ft. I think it's possible you have a male there instead of a female, lets see what some others say about it.

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I’m 100% not sure about the gender, I just say she since I always have. I’m not really too concerned with that - I do think that “she” is still growing though because her had is so small whereas all the more mature snakes I see have such big faces.

That’s actually why I made this thread, to see if a diet of mice somehow stunted or considerably slowed a snake’s growth.


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Based on the responses I think I’ll try getting a rat next time I need to stock up on F/T food and see if Kaa will take one. She *has* eaten a few rats in the past, but always acts a little like it’s a chore compared to the mice. If she’s not interested I won’t worry about it too much(:

Thanks for all the feedback so far!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maddlesrain

I’m 100% not sure about the gender, I just say she since I always have. I’m not really too concerned with that - I do think that “she” is still growing though because her had is so small whereas all the more mature snakes I see have such big faces.

That’s actually why I made this thread, to see if a diet of mice somehow stunted or considerably slowed a snake’s growth.


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^^ also could be a male based on the head size haha!
I just always say she.


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Just for fun, I did some digging with the data and wanted to share.

From the link I posted before from RodentPro, I compared using the data the differences between the multiple mice & single rat assuming equivalent weights of each prey for small rats (60g) just to have concrete numbers of actual intake. (It would scale linearly for mice since it is per item and adult mice all fall into the same category of measurements from this data)

Both appear to be fairly close overall for most things. Fat/protein aren't different enough that I would think it is problematic nutritionally to feed mice as a staple for a pet.

Rats are higher in protein by approximately 0.06g of protein per gram of rat. (works out to about 3.6g more protein in a rat than a mouse at 60g.) Both still maintain > 50% protein by weight. 37.08g protein in a rat vs 33.48g protein in 2 30g mice.

Rats have nearly 25% more fat (potentially necessary for egg development or building fat stores in breeders, not sure in pets). This being 19.5g vs 14.1g on 60g of prey.

Rats have more energy (kcal) total in the prey than mice. 382 vs 315.

But.. this was a surprise.

Mice have SUBSTANTIALLY more vitamin A (associated with eye and skin health). 60g rat has 9,083. 2x 30g mice would have 34,613. (In international units. From the table as IU/kg)

Mice also have higher calcium and phosphorus amounts in the same weight. 60g of mice has 1.788g and 1.032g of each, whereas rats have 1.57g and 0.89g of each. Working out to a 1.73:1 ratio for mice and a 1.77:1 ratio for rats (In insectivores, I think the desired ratio is 2:1 when supplementing). So they have higher calcium, but not quite as much higher phosphorus resulting in the lower ratio.

It seems like mice fed instead of rats may help with providing more calcium for females going to lay eggs during the development stages due to increased availability of calcium. Rats fed leading up to breeding, to build them up and get good weight on prior to breeding may help similarly. All this assuming the mass of food fed matches up (not subbing a 60g rat for a 30g mouse).

There wasn't any real differentiation in older adults for mice or rats, but mice can reach 30g without being bred simply due to age, so "fat retired breeders" could be different. (I put that in quotes because observing my breeder mice, the breeders are far from fat, so I'm not convinced of that yet; not to say it is false either. Haven't seen data for it, so leaving it there.) Jumbo mice or rats could certainly have higher fat than the data has, but there isn't any data showing it in this case. Adult mice in the 25-30g range that I've purchased and bred have all been fairly lean and not fat like jumbos might be, and that size makes a good number to double or triple to match the rat sizes.

Just wanted to share since it seemed interesting and to me it indicates that feeding mice occasionally to snakes that will switch prey readily back and forth is probably beneficial. (I wonder if anyone who has a chronically bad shedding snake despite humidity might see improvement with the extra vitamin A in mice...)

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