Abscess

Just picked up this 1700 g girl and obviously noticed that her lip was swollen.

The dude I picked her up from was a complete slob and all the snakes in his collection were basically living in their feces. His reaction when I pointed it out suggests he didn’t know about it or that was the first he’s seen of it. He feeds a combination of live and f/t so I was wondering if it was from a rat.

What do you guys think? Next steps?

Also, is just me or does she have big eyes?

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Abscess can have several causes

Rat bite is a possibility, broken tooth is another.

The next step is a vet, one specializing with reptiles, the abscess will need to be drained and antibiotics will have to be prescribed.

As for the eyes you will have to wait and see once the abscess issue is resolved.

Snake abscesses don't drain on their own, they need surgical (vet) help, & probably antibiotics too, but antibiotics alone won't do it. Poor snake, I hope you
can help her recover fully. Can't say, it could have been just from the filthy cage, or rat injury, who knows? Her eyes do seem a little big to me, or maybe it's
the contrast- the lighter color makes her pupils really stand out. Pretty eyes!

The swelling from the abscess is likely making the eye on the left protrude. I'd get that snake to a vet ASAP.

Sometimes antibiotics alone will resolve the issue but only if caught early. Unfortunately she will likely need surgery to remove the pocket of infection.

1) How serious of a condition is this? i.e. should I go to a vet far away today or a vet close to me on Thursday?

2) Are there other options than the vet? I am the kind of person who spares absolutely no expense on family, friends and even my pets (especially my bird). But for some reason, I am feeling hesitant to go and drop $350 on this animal. Probably because it went from her being a great example lesser that is a proven breeder and has good weight on her.. all for $60. Part me of screams "you save the animal even if it is a normal morph." and another part is like... "maybe I'll pray that she gets better." did I accept the responsibility of sparing no expense when I chose to buy her anyway? What if I didn't buy her because of the condition whilst knowing wholeheartedly that she will go back to live in repugnant conditions and that her owner wouldn't even notice it till too late. Ethical dilemmas I tell you.

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

1) How serious of a condition is this? i.e. should I go to a vet far away today or a vet close to me on Thursday?

2) Are there other options than the vet? I am the kind of person who spares absolutely no expense on family, friends and even my pets (especially my bird). But for some reason, I am feeling hesitant to go and drop $350 on this animal. Probably because it went from her being a great example lesser that is a proven breeder and has good weight on her.. all for $60. Part me of screams "you save the animal even if it is a normal morph." and another part is like... "maybe I'll pray that she gets better." did I accept the responsibility of sparing no expense when I chose to buy her anyway? What if I didn't buy her because of the condition whilst knowing wholeheartedly that she will go back to live in repugnant conditions and that her owner wouldn't even notice it till too late. Ethical dilemmas I tell you.

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How serious is an infection in the head of an animal (ie. near the eye & brain)? SERIOUS. A.S.A.P. see the most experienced vet that has dealt with this before (surgery).
Can she make a good recovery? Probably, with prompt & proper care...I've seen (not my snake) similar conditions treated successfully (surgery & antibiotics).

There are no other options...the start of a mouth infection might be helped with Betadine swabs, but that won't touch a deep abscess like this. You chose to buy this
snake that IMO should have been a gift to someone willing to provide proper medical care. I'm a little surprised you bought her, but now you owe her the proper care.
She will die slowly & miserably without it.

A vet is your ONLY option abscess in snakes are not something that can be taken care of at home, the caseous pus needs to be removed as well as the pocket that contains it once that is done the animal MUST be under anti-biotics.

It's not about how far or how close the vet is is whether or not the vet is an exotic vet with experience with reptiles.

A vet that has only dealt with access in dogs or cat is unlikely to know what needs to be done.

If not removed it will get worse honestly if dropping $350 on a $60 animal is an issue you should have pass on the animal to start with when picking it up, and $350 might not even be close to what you will have to spend.

I have said it before when people shop the cheap deals instead of going with a reputable breeder they often get what they pay for.

I appreciate everyone’s responses. I’m on my way to the vet right now.

So the vet said it’s cellulitis because there’s no sac formation or any pus to drain out.

There is swelling inside the mouth at both sides but the left side was more swollen just as the outside is.

She put her on Chlorhexedine, applied twice daily for a week. If it heals, it heals. If it doesn’t then she wants to send a bacterial culture to the lab + ceftazidimie 180mg/ml injection or something.

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

So the vet said it’s cellulitis because there’s no sac formation or any pus to drain out.

There is swelling inside the mouth at both sides but the left side was more swollen just as the outside is.

She put her on Chlorhexedine, applied twice daily for a week. If it heals, it heals. If it doesn’t then she wants to send a bacterial culture to the lab + ceftazidimie 180mg/ml injection or something.

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Was this a vet experienced with reptiles? How did they determine there no sac formation or pus? Using "no pus to drain out" makes it sound like they looked at it like a dog or cat abscess, ie. did a needle aspirate and didn't get anything. Pus in reptiles won't drain. It's much more solid.

Aww, poor thing, hope you can get her back to good health.

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

So the vet said it’s cellulitis because there’s no sac formation or any pus to drain out.

There is swelling inside the mouth at both sides but the left side was more swollen just as the outside is.

She put her on Chlorhexedine, applied twice daily for a week. If it heals, it heals. If it doesn’t then she wants to send a bacterial culture to the lab + ceftazidimie 180mg/ml injection or something.

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I have the same question as reptilemom25...how much experience does this vet really have with snakes & reptiles??? This is critically important as there is a HUGE
difference in treating snakes/reptiles compared to typical dog & cat medical care. Pus formation in snakes is typically solid & requires surgery...it does not drain or go
away on it's own. I've never heard of a snake with cellulitis...anyone else???

She has plenty of snakes herself! She applied pressure on the swelling and it’s not “hard”

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

She has plenty of snakes herself! She applied pressure on the swelling and it’s not “hard”

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I own 17 snakes, but that doesn't mean I'd know how to diagnose an abscess in a snake necessarily. Just pointing that out, she may not have had specific training for it and defaulted to training she did have for cats/dogs.

I don't think "solid" pus is necessarily "hard". If I'd had to guess, I would have assume a sort of jello or soft play dough consistency rather than like a pebble. So I don't think not being hard is a good reason to think it is not an abscess.

I've never seen chlorahexadine recommended as a treatment for anything in snakes aside from superficial wounds to prevent an infection, so I'm not really sure that treatment makes much sense when it looks like there is something of some kind in there already (swelling comes from somewhere after all). There is another thread on here where a member had to have their retic brought in for a surgery to remove an abscess. Anyone have a link? (Sorry, work-brain has made me forget whose it was)

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

I own 17 snakes, but that doesn't mean I'd know how to diagnose an abscess in a snake necessarily. Just pointing that out, she may not have had specific training for it and defaulted to training she did have for cats/dogs.

I don't think "solid" pus is necessarily "hard". If I'd had to guess, I would have assume a sort of jello or soft play dough consistency rather than like a pebble. So I don't think not being hard is a good reason to think it is not an abscess.

I've never seen chlorahexadine recommended as a treatment for anything in snakes aside from superficial wounds to prevent an infection, so I'm not really sure that treatment makes much sense when it looks like there is something of some kind in there already (swelling comes from somewhere after all). There is another thread on here where a member had to have their retic brought in for a surgery to remove an abscess. Anyone have a link? (Sorry, work-brain has made me forget whose it was)

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While I'm delighted that some vets are taking more interest in herps, I agree that it's taking a leap of faith when you assume that they have trained for & successfully
treated snakes with some advanced health conditions, when in fact they may not have. It's not "rude" to inquire about any doctor's training, whether they treat humans
or pets...you have a right & need to know. Vets can be well-meaning & willing to help, but when you have a significant health issue that generally needs surgery, you
want someone with recent/current experience, & preferably someone who has seen more than one or two similar cases. It's like if you need a root canal, & your local
dentist is willing to do it, it's still better to see a practicing endodontist- someone who does these procedures every day & all day long. It can make a huge difference
in outcome, in reducing risks.

And as far as I know, pus in snakes has more of the consistency of thick custard...not "hard", but just not fluid enough to be drained either naturally or with a syringe.
I have seen Betadine used to swab a snake's mouth but not chlorhexidine- it's an ingredient in human mouthwash, but that doesn't mean it's good for snakes...I'm not
sure about this use, it's a new one on me too but perhaps OK...but it's only superficial treatment. I remember that thread too, but not whose snake it was...maybe a
'trek' thru the retic forum, we can find it?

It's not rare for snakes to get an abscess either along the jawline like this or on their nose area (from hitting their face on cages). There's bound to be more than one
thread here about similar issues.

This was the thread, but it is a couple hundred posts down before the relevant parts. Somewhere in 800-900 I think is where it starts.

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Here's a few others that are relevant. (I was searching "abscess") There's probably others...

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hlight=abscess

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-information

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hlight=abscess

It’s my mistake thinking it was common sense to go to an exotic vet with experience in snakes and that’s exactly what she is. I called 20 vets and found only 2 that looks at snakes plus I was picky with regards to who I saw at this specific clinic.

All that being said, I am not being defensive regarding the vet because I have 0 loyalty to any medical practitioner be it my physiotherapist or vet. I am only in search of the best of anything. Thankfully, I am also shameless enough to ask the vet “where do you rank yourself with regards to being the best reptile vet in Ontario?” Or “when was the last conference you attended that was reptile/snake focused?”

Alas, I am gonna put a budget of $1000. If that doesn’t save her, I am gonna lay her to rest and make a belt out of her skin. I’ll take the rest of her skinless body and give it a Viking funeral.

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

It’s my mistake thinking it was common sense to go to an exotic vet with experience in snakes and that’s exactly what she is. I called 20 vets and found only 2 that looks at snakes plus I was picky with regards to who I saw at this specific clinic.

All that being said, I am not being defensive regarding the vet because I have 0 loyalty to any medical practitioner be it my physiotherapist or vet. I am only in search of the best of anything. Thankfully, I am also shameless enough to ask the vet “where do you rank yourself with regards to being the best reptile vet in Ontario?” Or “when was the last conference you attended that was reptile/snake focused?”

Alas, I am gonna put a budget of $1000. If that doesn’t save her, I am gonna lay her to rest and make a belt out of her skin. I’ll take the rest of her skinless body and give it a Viking funeral.

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Maybe it is common sense (and I'm glad you have it), but we've seen plenty of people skip out on common sense and insist they were right before in the topic of vets so some of us are a bit jaded, apologies. Nothing personal about you, we just wanted to make sure that was not the case here and that the snake gets appropriate treatment. (I'm sure you can imagine how ineffectual a dog/cat vet would be on an exotic snake injury.)

Your wording did sound more in line with what is done to mammals, and that's all the information any of us have to go on is what you say. Your initial reply on her expertise was related to owning snakes and not necessarily treating them medically, so we had to assume that was her limit from the info given.

I'm very glad she is the most experienced available to you and that you're willing to question things and not take it at face value. Hopefully it won't come to needing that belt for quite some time, and it will be able to be healed.

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

Maybe it is common sense (and I'm glad you have it), but we've seen plenty of people skip out on common sense and insist they were right before in the topic of vets so some of us are a bit jaded, apologies. Nothing personal about you, we just wanted to make sure that was not the case here and that the snake gets appropriate treatment. (I'm sure you can imagine how ineffectual a dog/cat vet would be on an exotic snake injury.)

Your wording did sound more in line with what is done to mammals, and that's all the information any of us have to go on is what you say. Your initial reply on her expertise was related to owning snakes and not necessarily treating them medically, so we had to assume that was her limit from the info given.

I'm very glad she is the most experienced available to you and that you're willing to question things and not take it at face value. Hopefully it won't come to needing that belt for quite some time, and it will be able to be healed.

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Hoping she makes a full recovery. The whole family is rooting for her!

If you looked at the links I posted, the first one is way worse than your snake, & what I HOPE yours doesn't turn into- & it's not even the worst I've seen on this forum.
I just grabbed a few that had a similar issue to yours to help you understand, I'm sure there's others...

For what it's worth, my options are worse than yours for locally treating snakes...I do understand. I also don't think it will matter much, following her advice for the
duration of this week & then seeing if it's better or worse. We are just trying to help you understand what is typical treatment for these situations, hoping for the best
for you & your pet, and hoping to help you ask the right questions when you see her again.

Hey, you can always learn from criticism. If you don’t gain knowledge from it, then perhaps some humility.

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

Hey, you can always learn from criticism. If you don’t gain knowledge from it, then perhaps some humility.

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Please don't take our comments as criticism...we're just trying to help you with something many of us have seen before. Trust me, no one "knows everything"...
that's why we have a forum...to share tips. ;) And we're not vets, nor are we seeing your snake (in a real life clinic), just experienced keepers.