Avengers Endgame SPOILER Thread

Surprised no one started one already.

As the subject says, let's talk Endgame.

I saw it opening night so I've had some time to digest things.

Overall, it is fantastic. I wonderful bookend to 22 movies. If the MCU stopped now it would be fitting.

Things that surprised me:

• Black Widow dying.
• Characters that were "done or dead" showing up like the Ancient One and Natalie Portman's character. The kid from Iron Man 3. Thor's Mom. And so on.
• Tony being the one to die instead of Steve,
• Old man Steve.
• Falcon becoming the new Captain America.
• Time traveling Thanos.
• Hulk using the stones.

Things that were amazing!:

• Cap using Thor's Hammer. Probably the biggest cheer in my theater. And there were lots of cheering.
• Thor dual wielding his Hammer and Stormbreaker
• "Hail Hydra!"
• When all seemed lost and the Dr Strange portals started opening and all the people that were snapped came through.
• Scarlet Witch nearly ripping Thanos apart.
• Captain Marvel taking down Thanos ship by herself.

Things I have problems with:

• The pacing early on. Didn't need to see Antman wandering around SF for 15 mins. Could have just cut straight to him going to his house and meeting grown up Cassie.
• Professor Hulk. I was hoping he would really Hulk out at some point. Never really got to see him fight. Past Hulk doesn't count.
• Plot holes (at least for now) resulting from unresolved time travel shenanigans.
• Fat Thor.
• Thor, Cap, and Tony not being able to take down stoneless Thanos.
• The all too staged "Female Avengers" scene. Not that I am against girl power. It was just too staged. Didn't seem natural.

Overall, I just loved this movie. And for the first time in years I want to go see a movie in the theater a second time.

I thought it was awesome.

Old man Steve didn't surprise me at all. The only path to happiness for him was Peggy.

I think Tony dying had to happen. It was his redemption.

I would add "avengers assemble" to awesome things.

I love professor hulk!

I think that "fat Thor" also needed to happen. He was lost after Asgard was destroyed. I feel like it made us fully appreciate just how lost.

I am a mom to a teenage daughter and we both felt the "female avengers" bit was forced. It was a good idea with poor execution. There should have been some footage leading up to that showing how they ended up in a group, ect.

I had the "fat Thor" argument with my husband as he had the same issue you did.

Thor is broken. Severely broken. If you look back through the past movies, he's pretty much lost everything that he feels defines him. He's made some HUGE mistakes, and killing Thanos was the icing on the cake. I think his escape/coping mechanism fits perfectly with how Thor has been portrayed throughout the movies - anytime things get hard, he escapes into humor (plus the hints here and there that he enjoys his beer). My husband disagrees and feels like they were just going for a laugh (he claims Disney's influence).


I hate time travel. I mean, I love Back to the Future, and time travel movies, but I hate the inconsistencies that come along with time travel. And while Endgame tries very very hard to work through those inconsistencies, I still found myself disappointed that this was the way they "fixed" everything. In the end, I think they did the best I've seen - I thoroughly enjoyed how everything wrapped up. Big concern with how the world just picked up where it left off after five years of everyone being gone - my husband also had the discussion of getting remarried and even having children after five years, and then oops, original spouse and family are back! Awkward......


So many cool things to name: I loved when Steve Rogers runs into himself and says "Oh sh..." And then mocks himself for saying "I could do this all day." Shows so much progression for him, from the days of Age of Ultron where he was telling everyone to watch their language and was so sanctimonious. The end battle scene with him wielding the hammer, and he and Thor switching off weapons (Thor gets the big one, Cap gets the little one lol). The girl power scene was forced but I still loved it, being a woman. I got chills when everyone shows up to fight, and again when Thanos and his army disappears. And it HAD to be Tony who ended it. I don't know about redemption so much as his biggest fears being that he couldn't protect everyone. And that line where Pepper tells him that he can go now, that they'll be okay? Ugh, ripped my heart right out.

My biggest disappointment was the lack of Captain Marvel. I really, really thought she would be more prevalent in this movie. When she comes back and takes down the ship, and beats the poo out of Thanos, I was super happy, but I would've liked to see her more.


Overall, I thought the move was amazing and we are going to see it again next weekend.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I had the "fat Thor" argument with my husband as he had the same issue you did.

Thor is broken. Severely broken. If you look back through the past movies, he's pretty much lost everything that he feels defines him. He's made some HUGE mistakes, and killing Thanos was the icing on the cake. I think his escape/coping mechanism fits perfectly with how Thor has been portrayed throughout the movies - anytime things get hard, he escapes into humor (plus the hints here and there that he enjoys his beer). My husband disagrees and feels like they were just going for a laugh (he claims Disney's influence).

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I get what they were going for. And I thought it was funny at the beginning too. But they ran with it too long.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I hate time travel. I mean, I love Back to the Future, and time travel movies, but I hate the inconsistencies that come along with time travel. And while Endgame tries very very hard to work through those inconsistencies, I still found myself disappointed that this was the way they "fixed" everything. In the end, I think they did the best I've seen - I thoroughly enjoyed how everything wrapped up. Big concern with how the world just picked up where it left off after five years of everyone being gone - my husband also had the discussion of getting remarried and even having children after five years, and then oops, original spouse and family are back! Awkward......

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I would have felt better if all the time travel stuff was cleaner. I didn't like the whole "Alternate Loki" timeline. Especially after what the Ancent One said about alternate timelines leading to a darker future. But maybe that it what this Loki show is about. This alternate Loki. But I also don't like alternate Gamora sticking around. That's probably what Guardians 3 will be, the search for her. I still don't know whether or not past Thanos was snapped out of existence or sent back to his own time and had his memories erased?

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

My biggest disappointment was the lack of Captain Marvel. I really, really thought she would be more prevalent in this movie. When she comes back and takes down the ship, and beats the poo out of Thanos, I was super happy, but I would've liked to see her more.

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Well, the movie was more about the older characters. Also, she's OP AF and would have made some of the things not be dramatic at all. So she had to be used sparingly.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

. Also, she's OP AF

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Hahahahaha sorry I love this comment... so true!

Nothing beats the realization that Doctor Strange literally foresaw all of this, then proceeded to orchestrate everything through time and space, including judging the reactions of dead characters, to ultimately ensure the victory.

Fat Thor was one of our (mine and my bf's) favorite parts.
His absolute favorite was Cap with the hammer.
Mine was Thor with the hammer and stormbreaker.
But fat thor was amazing and we hope he stays that way in Guardians 3 for at least part of it.
Hail Hydra was also an unexpected great moment.

I did not like the 'all female let's go kick butt cause rawr female power' bit. Just... unnecessary. I also wished Prof. Hulk had a real hulk moment.

Time travel is always messy. The main time travel aspect I did not like was past thanos getting killed... because then it created a major time branch (why return the stones if he was dead). I thought Hulk's whole conversation with the Ancient One was about how they were NOT going to make time branches. If they just sent past Thanos back to the past instead of destroying (and the other major characters that came forward, past nebula, ebony maw, etc) they could have kept the original timeline intact.

Overall a wonderful movie!

Fat Thor was disappointing to me at first but then I realized, long hair, beard, and a belly. OMG I have the hair and body of a god?!

Time travel as a major plot mechanic is the cheapest crap you can ever imagine from a literary sense. Especially considering they just happen to solve the limited jumps issue handily.

I loved the individual scenes with the exception of a few. I agree with the overtly sexist "girls are gonna do what the boys can't scene" - I thought the movie was hot garbage.

Without reading the original posting, or its replies, I'm going to assume that some people will be complaining, to various degrees, about the scene showing the females heroes gathering before they charge into battle. I heard coworkers whining about it and I heard it on one podcast. To these naysayers, incels, and whiners, I say, "Adapt or get out of the way." I can accept the argument that it seemed "forced" and I say, "So what?" If you're looking for subtlety, a superhero film isn't the place. I thought it was great and I got chills during that scene. That scene will speak to so many people out there and I think that's amazing. Would anyone be complaining about a scene showing Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Hawkeye, (insert any male character here) gathering and charging into battle?

Sorry about my rant, but this kind of stuff really ticks me off.

I loved the movie and I loved flabby Thor a.k.a. Thor Lebowski. I hope he becomes a part of the Guardians crew and I think it would be great to see him getting back into shape during the course of a film or two.

BLACK WIDOW! :tears:

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Originally Posted by Skeptiball

I can accept the argument that it seemed "forced" and I say, "So what?"

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The fact that you didn't bother to read what was said before charging in guns blazing means this will likely fall on deaf ears, but here goes

So what is this:

While I agree that there needs to me more representation of strong female characters, it needs to be well done to truly be legitimate. The scene felt like a cheap, thrown together "token" done as an obligatory gesture, rather than a true effort. If we keep accepting this as ok, where does it truly get us? Nowhere. Well written, complex female characters that people can identify with are what is needed, not forced token gestures.

Yes, I WOULD definitely complain if they did that kind of crappy job on a scene of male characters charging in. There was no exposition. They just magically appeared. It was lazy. Ex: The Wasp had JUST been shown in the van and suddenly she is there?

I don't do super heroes. The closest I get is Deadpool and that is because it is just plain funny. I just wish people could watch, read, or listen to something without having to associate an agenda to it. Too many of this, not enough of that. For crying out loud, if these are the things you are concerning yourself with you don't have enough real problems. Sit back, chill, enjoy life. There are people that actually have to worry about where their next meal is coming from or if they will even be alive tomorrow. Don't create drama where there doesn't need to be any. You will be a lot happier.

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

The fact that you didn't bother to read what was said before charging in guns blazing means this will likely fall on deaf ears, but here goes

So what is this:

While I agree that there needs to me more representation of strong female characters, it needs to be well done to truly be legitimate. The scene felt like a cheap, thrown together "token" done as an obligatory gesture, rather than a true effort. If we keep accepting this as ok, where does it truly get us? Nowhere. Well written, complex female characters that people can identify with are what is needed, not forced token gestures.

Yes, I WOULD definitely complain if they did that kind of crappy job on a scene of male characters charging in. There was no exposition. They just magically appeared. It was lazy. Ex: The Wasp had JUST been shown in the van and suddenly she is there?

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Exactly this. It was gratuitously sexist and very forced. The scene was exactly a "The girls are here to do what the boys can't" and that doesn't bode well with me. Some of my favorite characters throughout all literature and movies are female, by all means lets see some ass kicking girl heroes, but don't make it what they did there. That's just a sham.

Paul

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Originally Posted by Skeptiball

I can accept the argument that it seemed "forced" and I say, "So what?" If you're looking for subtlety, a superhero film isn't the place. I thought it was great and I got chills during that scene. That scene will speak to so many people out there and I think that's amazing. Would anyone be complaining about a scene showing Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Hawkeye, (insert any male character here) gathering and charging into battle?

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You are welcome to your opinion but I disagree. That wasn't a real scene. It was a token scene. This isn't the 60's. Token characters and moments were needed back then just to get the idea in peoples' heads that it was ok or at least get them used to seeing it. Take Lt. Ohura from Star Trek. All she did was look hot and repeat what the computer said. She knew she was token character and almost left the show. But Dr. King told her that just her presence on the show was having a huge impact on people and she stayed. But we are way past that now.

That Avengers scene felt like just a step up from the 60's. It would have been more powerful if it was executed to be more natural.

I like that they weaseled gamora back into it by bringing her in from the past but I was kind of upset they didn't do the same for Loki. He's always been one of my favorite characters.

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

The fact that you didn't bother to read what was said before charging in guns blazing means this will likely fall on deaf ears, but here goes

So what is this:

While I agree that there needs to me more representation of strong female characters, it needs to be well done to truly be legitimate. The scene felt like a cheap, thrown together "token" done as an obligatory gesture, rather than a true effort. If we keep accepting this as ok, where does it truly get us? Nowhere. Well written, complex female characters that people can identify with are what is needed, not forced token gestures.

Yes, I WOULD definitely complain if they did that kind of crappy job on a scene of male characters charging in. There was no exposition. They just magically appeared. It was lazy. Ex: The Wasp had JUST been shown in the van and suddenly she is there?

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I have my doubts.

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Originally Posted by pbenner

Exactly this. It was gratuitously sexist and very forced. The scene was exactly a "The girls are here to do what the boys can't" and that doesn't bode well with me. Some of my favorite characters throughout all literature and movies are female, by all means lets see some ass kicking girl heroes, but don't make it what they did there. That's just a sham.

Paul

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We see things differently.

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

The fact that you didn't bother to read what was said before charging in guns blazing means this will likely fall on deaf ears, but here goes

So what is this:

While I agree that there needs to me more representation of strong female characters, it needs to be well done to truly be legitimate. The scene felt like a cheap, thrown together "token" done as an obligatory gesture, rather than a true effort. If we keep accepting this as ok, where does it truly get us? Nowhere. Well written, complex female characters that people can identify with are what is needed, not forced token gestures.

Yes, I WOULD definitely complain if they did that kind of crappy job on a scene of male characters charging in. There was no exposition. They just magically appeared. It was lazy. Ex: The Wasp had JUST been shown in the van and suddenly she is there?

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The vast majority of films show the males charging in to save the day and most people accept it without a thought.

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Originally Posted by Skeptiball

The vast majority of films show the males charging in to save the day and most people accept it without a thought.

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the fact that they are charging in to save the day is NOT the problem, as everyone here who commented has said. It is the shoddy way in which they executed the scene. They did a very poor job of setting it up. It feels like they didn't really care if they got it right or presented it well. It feels like they threw it in just to rubber stamp the fact that " we support the women's movement" than a true effort to advance the role of women in film. They can and should do better. "Most people" accept anything they see without question, but anyone looking for a quality film would see the shoddy set up and holes you could drive a truck through in that scene, men or women.

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Originally Posted by Skeptiball

I have my doubts.

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You don't know me. How can you make that judgement? The fact that you would is telling.

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

the fact that they are charging in to save the day is NOT the problem, as everyone here who commented has said. It is the shoddy way in which they executed the scene. They did a very poor job of setting it up. It feels like they didn't really care if they got it right or presented it well. It feels like they threw it in just to rubber stamp the fact that " we support the women's movement" than a true effort to advance the role of women in film. They can and should do better. "Most people" accept anything they see without question, but anyone looking for a quality film would see the shoddy set up and holes you could drive a truck through in that scene, men or women.

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You don't know me. How can you make that judgement? The fact that you would is telling.

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Simple. I read your comments and I have doubts.

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Originally Posted by Toad37

I like that they weaseled gamora back into it by bringing her in from the past but I was kind of upset they didn't do the same for Loki. He's always been one of my favorite characters.

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I thought for sure they would bring Loki back, especially with Thor having such a hard time.

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

I thought for sure they would bring Loki back, especially with Thor having such a hard time.

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My daughter was really disappointed by this too.

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Originally Posted by Skeptiball

Simple. I read your comments and I have doubts.

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please explain what in my comments led to these doubts. Is it simply that fact that I don't agree with your point of view, or do you have an actual basis for your opinion?

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

My daughter was really disappointed by this too.

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please explain what in my comments led to these doubts. Is it simply that fact that I don't agree with your point of view, or do you have an actual basis for your opinion?

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Maybe I should clarify this a bit. I thought the quote feature highlighted what I had my doubts about. The specific line was, "Yes, I WOULD definitely complain if they did that kind of crappy job on a scene of male characters charging in. There was no exposition."
I've heard things very similar to this over the years and it usually comes across as vapid and a way to end a conversation. I've become jaded to it. You're right, I don't know you as a person and you may find fault with a scene showing an all male crew charging in. For that I apologize.

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

I thought for sure they would bring Loki back, especially with Thor having such a hard time.

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I think they cracked the door a bit with the alternate timeline he created when he left with the tesseract. That may be a later movie and/or spin-off of some sort in which there is a darker Loki only time line, or perhaps something the new Avengers have to fix.

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Originally Posted by Skeptiball

Maybe I should clarify this a bit. I thought the quote feature highlighted what I had my doubts about. The specific line was, "Yes, I WOULD definitely complain if they did that kind of crappy job on a scene of male characters charging in. There was no exposition."
I've heard things very similar to this over the years and it usually comes across as vapid and a way to end a conversation. I've become jaded to it. You're right, I don't know you as a person and you may find fault with a scene showing an all male crew charging in. For that I apologize.

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It wasn't intended as a way to end a conversation, rather as response to your question and a way to move conversation past the "it would be ok if it was guys" idea, because it wouldn't. I honestly would have found fault with the scene no matter who the characters were because it left so many holes. Wasp was in the van and then suddenly made it all the way to the middle of the battle with no explanation. Several other characters were elsewhere as well and then showed up in a perfectly posed group for the "money shot". Lots of male dominated action movies use the same ploy and it bothers me there too. It's lazy movie making in my opinion, and the fact that they chose to be this lazy with a scene that they knew people would be scrutinizing says a lot about how little they cared about getting their representation of females correct. That bothers me, and I think accepting it as a valid way to do things means we will not move forward in the development of strong female characters who are not just there to satisfy the need for a "token" girl power scene. I think Captian Marvel did a lot, but this was a step backwards IMO.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I think they cracked the door a bit with the alternate timeline he created when he left with the tesseract. That may be a later movie and/or spin-off of some sort in which there is a darker Loki only time line, or perhaps something the new Avengers have to fix.

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Good point!

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

That Avengers scene felt like just a step up from the 60's. It would have been more powerful if it was executed to be more natural.

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I think that explains my feelings well, it just felt token and forced (like how all the 90s music in Captain Marvel was ONLY women 90s bands :rolleyes: )

There already ARE amazing powerful women superheros in these Marvel movies, just treat them all the same, as amazing powerful people. Forcing the aspect feels dated and unnecessary.

Let's look at a non-forced scene - Black Widow's death. "Normally" it would be the man sacrificing to save a woman. They did the opposite, it was a touching, sad scene and didn't feel forced trying to 'change the narrative'.

Anyways, we all have our opinions. :)

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I think that explains my feelings well, it just felt token and forced (like how all the 90s music in Captain Marvel was ONLY women 90s bands :rolleyes: )

There already ARE amazing powerful women superheros in these Marvel movies, just treat them all the same, as amazing powerful people. Forcing the aspect feels dated and unnecessary.

Let's look at a non-forced scene - Black Widow's death. "Normally" it would be the man sacrificing to save a woman. They did the opposite, it was a touching, sad scene and didn't feel forced trying to 'change the narrative'.

Anyways, we all have our opinions. :)

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ITA about the Black Widow scene. It was well done ,thoughtful film making.

So the Russos confirms that Old Cap went back and created an alternate timeline with Peggy Carter. Then after she died he came back to the main timeline using the suit.

And supposedly that story (or part of it) will be told.

Also, I completely missing seeing Howard the Duck hop out of a portal in the first showing.