New Thermostat!

I just bought a Herpstsat EZ2 thermostat for Gargamel's enclosure today. Anyone have experience with this particular item/brand?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7e62562824.jpg

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My experience is that I would not recommend a dial thermostat regardless of the brand, it will be constant readjusting on your hand and temps will fluctuate.

At the very minimum I recommend this

https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=25 for one heat source

or

https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=26 for two heat sources.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

My experience is that I would not recommend a dial thermostat regardless of the brand, it will be constant readjusting on your hand and temps will fluctuate.

At the very minimum I recommend this

https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=25 for one heat source

or

https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=26 for two heat sources.

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Utoh...

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Originally Posted by Deborah

My experience is that I would not recommend a dial thermostat regardless of the brand, it will be constant readjusting on your hand and temps will fluctuate.

At the very minimum I recommend this

https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=25 for one heat source

or

https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=26 for two heat sources.

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I think this is very true of NON PROPORTIONAL dial units, but I have the single dial model of this one and I DON'T find that to be true at all. Once i set this one, it stays at a stable temp. It is proportional and has a brain to control it. I have found that the only difference between setting with a dial vs a digital readout is that sometimes it takes a couple of adjustments to zero in on the temp you want, but once you do that, it holds just fine. Maybe I have been lucky, but mine has been running consistent temps for months without any adjustment.

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

I think this is very true of NON PROPORTIONAL dial units, but I have the single dial model of this one and I DON'T find that to be true at all. Once i set this one, it stays at a stable temp. It is proportional and has a brain to control it. I have found that the only difference between setting with a dial vs a digital readout is that sometimes it takes a couple of adjustments to zero in on the temp you want, but once you do that, it holds just fine. Maybe I have been lucky, but mine has been running consistent temps for months without any adjustment.

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My UTH is already stuck to the bottom of the tank... should I try to unstick it and put the probe between it and the bottom of the tank?

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

My UTH is already stuck to the bottom of the tank... should I try to unstick it and put the probe between it and the bottom of the tank?

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I don't have a lot of experience with the stick on kind. My UTH's are all either heat tape or the Flukers kind without the sticky stuff. Standard wisdom is to put the probe between heat mat and glass, and not to unstick a heat mat once it is stuck. I don't know how forgiving that is and if you could risk it. Maybe someone who uses them could help more?

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

My UTH is already stuck to the bottom of the tank... should I try to unstick it and put the probe between it and the bottom of the tank?

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Most people are going to tell you no on that one. Generally, you risk damaging the heating wires and having uneven heating, including hot spots.

That said, I did, very gently and slowly, peel mine about halfway back and set the probe in place, then stuck it back down. Then, with the tank empty, I let it heat back up for over and hour, constantly checking surface temps with an infrared thermometer to make sure I hadn't caused and damage. It worked out fine.

I don't think you'll necessarily need to unstick your UTH. I also have UTHs with the adhesive surface, and I just place the probe flush against the UTH. In order to help keep the probe in place and as accurate as possible to the UTH's temperature, I create a little "sandwich" as follows:

Outside surface of bottom of tub/tank -> UTH -> probe -> small square of styrofoam -> heat-safe tape to hold the styrofoam in place

I also tape down a section of the probe's cord so that the probe can't get tugged out from under the styrofoam square. With this arrangement, I have my Herpstat set to 88.0 F, and find that the surface temp for the hot spot (measured with an infrared thermometer, as fadingdaylight recommended) matches up pretty closely, right between 88-90 F.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

I don't think you'll necessarily need to unstick your UTH. I also have UTHs with the adhesive surface, and I just place the probe flush against the UTH. In order to help keep the probe in place and as accurate as possible to the UTH's temperature, I create a little "sandwich" as follows:

Outside surface of bottom of tub/tank -> UTH -> probe -> small square of styrofoam -> heat-safe tape to hold the styrofoam in place

I also tape down a section of the probe's cord so that the probe can't get tugged out from under the styrofoam square. With this arrangement, I have my Herpstat set to 88.0 F, and find that the surface temp for the hot spot (measured with an infrared thermometer, as fadingdaylight recommended) matches up pretty closely, right between 88-90 F.

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Awesome, thanks! I'm picking up a heat gun tonight. The thermostat is shipping from IL today, so hopefully I'll get by Friday.

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Awesome, thanks! I'm picking up a heat gun tonight. The thermostat is shipping from IL today, so hopefully I'll get by Friday.

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Excellent. I saw from your other posts that you've been asking good questions and getting a lot of great advice, so keep up the good work - and don't worry, it gets much easier once everything is all dialed in. (Also, your Gargamel is a great-looking little snake!)

As soon as you get your temp gun tonight, measure the temp on the cool side and the hot spot. If the hot spot is too hot (88-90 F is your target range, so anything upward of 92 F might be a bit concerning), then I wonder if it might be safer to turn off the UTH until your thermostat arrives on Friday, as long as your ambient/cool side temp is still a reasonably consistent 78-80 F. Your ball python can comfortably hang out in that ambient temp range for a fair amount of time, compared to the pain/stress and long recovery process if it sustains a burn from an unregulated heat mat.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Excellent. I saw from your other posts that you've been asking good questions and getting a lot of great advice, so keep up the good work - and don't worry, it gets much easier once everything is all dialed in. (Also, your Gargamel is a great-looking little snake!)

As soon as you get your temp gun tonight, measure the temp on the cool side and the hot spot. If the hot spot is too hot (88-90 F is your target range, so anything upward of 92 F might be a bit concerning), then I wonder if it might be safer to turn off the UTH until your thermostat arrives on Friday, as long as your ambient/cool side temp is still a reasonably consistent 78-80 F. Your ball python can comfortably hang out in that ambient temp range for a fair amount of time, compared to the pain/stress and long recovery process if it sustains a burn from an unregulated heat mat.

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Thanks! When I use the heat gun, Do I point it at the substrate or the tank itself ( the glass)?

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

I think this is very true of NON PROPORTIONAL dial units, but I have the single dial model of this one and I DON'T find that to be true at all. Once i set this one, it stays at a stable temp. It is proportional and has a brain to control it. I have found that the only difference between setting with a dial vs a digital readout is that sometimes it takes a couple of adjustments to zero in on the temp you want, but once you do that, it holds just fine. Maybe I have been lucky, but mine has been running consistent temps for months without any adjustment.

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^ this. this is like just a Herpstat w/ knobs and no digital readout.

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Thanks! When I use the heat gun, Do I point it at the substrate or the tank itself ( the glass)?

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measure the hottest part, so under the substrate on the enclosure bottom.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

^ this. this is like just a Herpstat w/ knobs and no digital readout.


measure the hottest part, so under the substrate on the enclosure bottom.

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Ok so he was sitting on the hot spot, so I did not want to disturb him. The substrate measured exactly 90 with my heat gun. On the cool side of the tank, everything was around 70 to 72. I soft where someone said to cover the mesh lid with foil to hold in the heat better. Should I do that? Or should I buy a CHE and run it on my thermostat?

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I also sprayed some water onto the substrate in order to up the humidity. my humidity is staying around the mid to upper 30's and I know that is extremely low. He seemed to quite like the shower lol!

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If you're already having difficulty keeping the humidity up right now, then unfortunately the addition of a CHE would likely dry things out even more. I use plastic tubs, so I may not be able to advise as much on this front, but for screen-top tanks, I've seen others recommend covering the top with foil (like you mentioned) and insulating the sides with foam in order to preserve temperature better. Covering most of the screen-top might also help with humidity, but you may need to spray/mist more frequently as well, or look into substrates that hold moisture better without getting too "soggy" (which would increase risk of scale rot). I've heard good things about Reptile Prime coconut fiber substrate, but have not used it myself, and it is somewhat pricey.

Thanks! Yeah I'm using the shredded Coco substrate and it seems to hold moisture pretty well. I think I'm going to try the foil trick to try and hold in some heat. I don't mind having to mist the tank every day. It would be a all sacrifice for getting my temps up using the CHE. But before I buy it, I'm going to just try the foil and see if it holds in enough heat.

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Thanks! Yeah I'm using the shredded Coco substrate and it seems to hold moisture pretty well. I think I'm going to try the foil trick to try and hold in some heat. I don't mind having to mist the tank every day. It would be a all sacrifice for getting my temps up using the CHE. But before I buy it, I'm going to just try the foil and see if it holds in enough heat.

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Sounds like a plan. You'll definitely want to get your humidity on target sooner rather than later, to avoid the headache of a bad shed. Aim for 50-60% to start with, and if you're still running into shedding issues, you have wiggle room to bump it up further as needed. You also want to take into account that hygrometer measurements tend to vary a lot more than temperature measurements do.

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Thanks! Yeah I'm using the shredded Coco substrate and it seems to hold moisture pretty well. I think I'm going to try the foil trick to try and hold in some heat. I don't mind having to mist the tank every day. It would be a all sacrifice for getting my temps up using the CHE. But before I buy it, I'm going to just try the foil and see if it holds in enough heat.

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Hi! Looks like you are making some great changes. I have a little bit of input on the temp/ humidity dance that is a glass enclosure. My newest baby is set up in an exo terra glass enclosure. It has a spray foam background that wraps halfway around the sides so that provides some insulation I have 2/3 of the lid covered, and I still have to use a CHE to get my ambient up enough. My room runs 72, and without the CHe I don't get more than 74 in the enclosure. I am misting twice a day to keep humidity in the 50's. I also have substrate about 2" deep everywhere except over the heat mat under his hot hide. Deeper substrate helps hold humidity if you wet it down well. I am not really thrilled with the setup as humidity is dipping more than I want during the day. I talked to the guy at pro products about installing an RHP, and after chatting with him I have ordered a heat panel and a sheet of plexi glass the same size as the top of my tank. I am going to put the plexi glass over the existing screen top and mount the RHP to that. The exo terra has enough ventilation even with the top covered, but for a regular tank you would need to drill a few extra holes. I have had good success with the RHP in my PVC enclosure so I am hopeful it will help with the issue. they seem to bleed off a lot less humidity than a CHE. They are pricey, but I plan to use the enclosure for my Rosy Boa when this baby outgrows it so it is worth it to me.

Based on my experience learning about this hobby over the last year, I think that if this is going to be a long term pet for you, your best bet would be to make the glass enclosure work for now, or even switch to a tub if you absolutely cannot get it dialed in, and save up for a PVC enclosure with an RHP for his forever home. I have been very happy with going that route, and it's what I plan to do for my new guy.

My digital thermostat also measures humidity. After I sprayed last night, it jumped to 99% LOL. I checked it this morning after it had time to settle, and it was still around 70%, but I'm just not sure how accurate my humidity reader is. I'm going to cover the lid with a piece of cardboard with foil over it. I plan on cutting a hole about 1/2" wider than the CHE so it can still do its thing and cut holes on each side for air flow and see how that works out once I get my thermostat installed. I will post pictures of this "marvel of engineering" once I get it made ;P

Sorry I meant digital thermometer, not thermostat LOL!

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

I'm going to cover the lid with a piece of cardboard with foil over it...

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From my experience you might find saran wrap taped over card board works a little better than tin foil. Tin foil seemed to just reflect the heat more or something, it didn't seem to lock in the moisture like the saran wrap did for me. Some people eventually use plexi-glass I think.

As of now I have Styrofoam completely wrapping in 3M silver metal tape (3350 ) which looks like tin foil :confusd: But it seems to be working ok. I guess I could wrap them over with saran wrap. Might just do that in the next couple of days. Thanks.

ps. I would go ahead and move the snake and check the glass temp. If the substrate is 90 the glass might be too hot. And then measure the glass temp. set the thermostat to 90 and work up slowly checking the glass and then waiting. Best to do this before the snake is there at all. But guess you'll have to work with it. I wouldn't let the glass get over 90 But you will probably end up setting the thermostat higher than 90 to get the glass to 90. Make sure the temps stabilize before changing the thermostat setting.

Will do. I just didn't want to stress him too much. Ive only had him out two (maybe 3) times since I bought him because I read that you aren't supposed to handle them too much. Is that true? How often am I able to take him out and hold him? I know at least 24-72 hrs after he eats, but other than that what is the rule?

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Will do. I just didn't want to stress him too much. Ive only had him out two (maybe 3) times since I bought him because I read that you aren't supposed to handle them too much. Is that true? How often am I able to take him out and hold him? I know at least 24-72 hrs after he eats, but other than that what is the rule?

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The only hard and fast rule I know of other than to wait after feeding is no handling until they are eating consistently (3 feedings in a row without refusal), and after that to take is slowly. Honestly, a lot of it depends on the snake. Some can tolerate more handling than others.

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Will do. I just didn't want to stress him too much. Ive only had him out two (maybe 3) times since I bought him because I read that you aren't supposed to handle them too much. Is that true? How often am I able to take him out and hold him? I know at least 24-72 hrs after he eats, but other than that what is the rule?

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Better stressed a little than a burned belly right? I would wait 48 hrs. to handle after eating I handled one once at 24 hrs. because Brian at snake bytes said 24 was enough and had a partial regurge. Since then I wait 2 days or 48 hrs. Once your snake gets acclimated and had a few meals you could take it out after 48 hrs from feed and then use your own best judgement between once a day or every couple of days say 15 to 30 minutes of handling, you don't want to over handle them . I would leave it alone on feeding day and then the 48 hrs after. And then a little here and there between the 48 hrs and feed day. Not handling on feed day is not a rule but it is just using good judgement.

I would agree with the "no handling for 48 hours after feeding" rule, at least for now while your snake is young and not yet familiar with you. I followed that rule fairly strictly for the first couple of months with my BPs. Later on, you may be able to allow for just 24hrs, because your snake will be used to you and recognize you're not a threat, and you will also know your snake better and be able to read his body language. I also do distinguish between routine maintenance handling - i.e. moving or picking him up briefly because it's necessary to check a temperature or clean up a spot of pee/poop - and recreational handling, i.e. bringing him out to play with him for an extended period of time.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

I don't think you'll necessarily need to unstick your UTH. I also have UTHs with the adhesive surface, and I just place the probe flush against the UTH. In order to help keep the probe in place and as accurate as possible to the UTH's temperature, I create a little "sandwich" as follows:

Outside surface of bottom of tub/tank -> UTH -> probe -> small square of styrofoam -> heat-safe tape to hold the styrofoam in place

I also tape down a section of the probe's cord so that the probe can't get tugged out from under the styrofoam square. With this arrangement, I have my Herpstat set to 88.0 F, and find that the surface temp for the hot spot (measured with an infrared thermometer, as fadingdaylight recommended) matches up pretty closely, right between 88-90 F.

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Finally got my therm hooked up! I made a cardboard lid cover and lined it with foil underneath and put black duct tape on the top so it did not look quite as hokie lol. I used your sandwich idea for the probe so I did not have to try and unstick the UTH. Thank you for that awesome idea. I'm hoping that with this new cover, I will be able to retain some humidity. Right now, I will missed it in the evenings and it will be back down in the '30s within 24 hours.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d27dabfa8a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...59848eef88.jpg

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Finally got my therm hooked up! I made a cardboard lid cover and lined it with foil underneath and put black duct tape on the top so it did not look quite as hokie lol. I used your sandwich idea for the probe so I did not have to try and unstick the UTH. Thank you for that awesome idea. I'm hoping that with this new cover, I will be able to retain some humidity. Right now, I will missed it in the evenings and it will be back down in the '30s within 24 hours.

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Good that you have your thermostat set up now, and I'm glad the "probe sandwich" idea was helpful, haha. (I didn't notice until now that the EZ2 as little circular snakes on its number dials, that's cute.) What temp do you have it set to, and what's the glass surface temp on the hot spot now?

For your cardboard lid, just make sure none of the duct tape is on the inside surface where Gargamel can come into contact with it; our snakes have a tendency to get themselves into "sticky" situations, no matter how unlikely it might seem. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Good that you have your thermostat set up now, and I'm glad the "probe sandwich" idea was helpful, haha. (I didn't notice until now that the EZ2 as little circular snakes on its number dials, that's cute.) What temp do you have it set to, and what's the glass surface temp on the hot spot now?

For your cardboard lid, just make sure none of the duct tape is on the inside surface where Gargamel can come into contact with it; our snakes have a tendency to get themselves into "sticky" situations, no matter how unlikely it might seem. :rolleyes:

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I have it set to 100. The substrate is clocking in at 94 and the other side is now 83. The lid cover seems to be doing it's job. I made it to go on top of the slide in screen cover, so he cannot come into contact with the tape. Also, the underside is just foil so all the tape is on the outside. It seems to be holding humidity better now, but when I turn on his light for the daytime, it really takes it out fast. I'm thinking about not turning the light on for a couple of days and just letting the daylight come in instead. If the temperature stays up, then I don't see why I would even need the light at all do you?

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

I have it set to 100. The substrate is clocking in at 94 and the other side is now 83. The lid cover seems to be doing it's job. I made it to go on top of the slide in screen cover, so he cannot come into contact with the tape. Also, the underside is just foil so all the tape is on the outside. It seems to be holding humidity better now, but when I turn on his light for the daytime, it really takes it out fast. I'm thinking about not turning the light on for a couple of days and just letting the daylight come in instead. If the temperature stays up, then I don't see why I would even need the light at all do you?

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No need for a light. BP's are nocturnal so they don't require it. If you need it to supliment your heat get a ceramic heat element. They don't put off light and can be left on 24h. Also your hot side is a bit too hot. You should be measuring the tempurature at the hottest spot the snake can get to which would be the glass on the bottom of the tank directly above the UTH. It shouldn't be any higher than 90. You may need to turn down the heat a bit.

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Originally Posted by gunkle

No need for a light. BP's are nocturnal so they don't require it. If you need it to supliment your heat get a ceramic heat element. They don't put off light and can be left on 24h. Also your hot side is a bit too hot. You should be measuring the tempurature at the hottest spot the snake can get to which would be the glass on the bottom of the tank directly above the UTH. It shouldn't be any higher than 90. You may need to turn down the heat a bit.

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Thanks, will do. I've never seen him burrow under the substrate but I will turn it down just in case he decides to lol. I've been thinking about switching from a light to a CHE. When I use the CHE, where should I put the probe? Will it dry out the enclosure as well though?

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

Thanks, will do. I've never seen him burrow under the substrate but I will turn it down just in case he decides to lol. I've been thinking about switching from a light to a CHE. When I use the CHE, where should I put the probe? Will it dry out the enclosure as well though?

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Even on top 94 is way too hot. But yeah you want to think worst case scenario with heat.Yes a CHE will dry it out. Any heat source from above will to one degree or another. I usually mount the probes a few inches below the CHE to measure the output but I adjust it based on the temps from a temp gun or thermometer at the substrate layer. Again measure the hottest place affected by the heat source so this case it would be on top of the substrate or object directly below the CHE/Bulb. Also it looks like you have pretty much the whole lid covered. You need to leave some room for air to be able to circulate in and out of the cage. Mind you I don't have a tank so someone with more tank experience may give better advice.

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Originally Posted by gunkle

Even on top 94 is way too hot. But yeah you want to think worst case scenario with heat.Yes a CHE will dry it out. Any heat source from above will to one degree or another. I usually mount the probes a few inches below the CHE to measure the output but I adjust it based on the temps from a temp gun or thermometer at the substrate layer. Again measure the hottest place affected by the heat source so this case it would be on top of the substrate or object directly below the CHE/Bulb. Also it looks like you have pretty much the whole lid covered. You need to leave some room for air to be able to circulate in and out of the cage. Mind you I don't have a tank so someone with more tank experience may give better advice.

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OK I'll turn it down to 90. I have one hole in each corner and also, I have cut the hole for the lamp about a half an inch wider all the way around so it should be getting sufficient air yes?

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Originally Posted by indygunnerguy

OK I'll turn it down to 90. I have one hole in each corner and also, I have cut the hole for the lamp about a half an inch wider all the way around so it should be getting sufficient air yes?

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Great. You may need your thermostat set a few degrees higher than your target temp. Just make sure to check it with a temp gun to see how it works. That may be enough air. Like I said I don't have a glass tank so I'm not 100% sure just how much air holes are needed just that they are.

Definitely agreed about turning down the thermostat, so I'm glad you're on top of that. Aim for glass temp of 90, so then around 87-88 on the substrate surface is still very reasonable for a hot spot, even if he never burrows down deeper. I also wish I could advise on the air ventilation for the lid, but I use tubs not tanks. Snakes do have a considerably lower oxygen demand (relative to their size) than we do, so there's that.

For at least some form of reference for total surface area dedicated to ventilation, this is the layout of the air holes on the lids and sides of my tubs. However, the plastic tubs also hold in humidity much more effectively than glass tanks do, so the whole "balancing act" is a bit different.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...303_234452.jpg