Is this normal? Getting worried.

My ball python has not pooped for over a month and 5 feedings. His prey was a little undersized for the month of March because for some reason the F/T pack I got from the pet store had mice that were smaller than advertised, but he did take an appropriately sized rat pup last week.

I've heard of adult ball pythons going a month or two without pooping but not one this young. He's only about 200g. This is also not his normal schedule, he'll usually drop a urate or poop every 2 weeks. He has not shed for two months, which seems to be a bit too long since I've read most young BPs will shed every 4-6 weeks.

He also seems more lethargic and sluggish than usual, he moves more slowly when I take him out. While he has never been super head shy he actually let me stroke and even hold his head today which seems abnormal to me. I haven't seen him cruising his enclosure at night lately either.

He is starting to show signs of "sausage butt", here's a photo of his tail sticking out of my sleeve:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2019-04-05.jpg

I'm wondering at what point I should try soaking him in warm water? He just seems kind of slow and bloated and uncomfortable to me, but I'm not very keen on soaking him unless I absolutely have to because it seems like it would be very stressful for him (and me as well). I'm not sure if he's in some way sick or just going into shed but if anyone has any ideas I'd really appreciate it!

Not pooping (defecating) for a month or longer is actually more common among young snakes, because even though they may eat more often, their prey is also
young, with less hair & smaller bones, so it's more fully digested with far less "left-over" as waste that needs to be expelled. It's typical for them to take any number
of meals before they have to "go".

He does seem to have "sausage butt" going on, but I'd give him a little more time. As far as time between sheds, it varies a great deal & isn't a big concern.
I'm sure that snakes have their own "growth spurts" just like human children do, so don't expect him to have a perfect routine that matches the "average".

Usually handling inspires some "action" from the tail, so I hope he doesn't decorate your sleeve...;)

Reading your post almost felt like deja vu, Luvyna! I had the same situation with Iggy back in January. 5 months old at the time, under 200g, and wasn't pooping or peeing despite a regular weekly feeding schedule. This was also a change from his previous norm, and he also developed a mild case of sausage butt, like so:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...130_201753.jpg

I tried the warm water bath for him once, I think around the 30-day mark, and it prompted him to produce several large urates and a cloud of liquid pee, but still no poop. He also, unsurprisingly, didn't enjoy the experience one bit, so I decided to avoid trying it again unless absolutely necessary. Finally, at the 37-day mark, he pooped and peed on his own - very explosively, I might add - after I had just finished deep-cleaning his tub and was about to put him back into it. So I guess the moral of the story is, continue keeping a close eye on him, but also no need to panic yet. The little ones seem to be able to save things up for a very long time.

Looks like a little sausage butt going on.

This is the only time I ever soak any of my snakes.

I'll put an inch or two of warm water (what feels like it would be comfortable for the snake) in my bathtub and put the snake in. 100% success rate so far.

Then I just drain the tub and clean it.

Rule of thumb...clean their cage and they will poop immediately rofl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Reading your post almost felt like deja vu, Luvyna! I had the same situation with Iggy back in January. 5 months old at the time, under 200g, and wasn't pooping or peeing despite a regular weekly feeding schedule. This was also a change from his previous norm, and he also developed a mild case of sausage butt, like so:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...130_201753.jpg

I tried the warm water bath for him once, I think around the 30-day mark, and it prompted him to produce several large urates and a cloud of liquid pee, but still no poop. He also, unsurprisingly, didn't enjoy the experience one bit, so I decided to avoid trying it again unless absolutely necessary. Finally, at the 37-day mark, he pooped and peed on his own - very explosively, I might add - after I had just finished deep-cleaning his tub and was about to put him back into it. So I guess the moral of the story is, continue keeping a close eye on him, but also no need to panic yet. The little ones seem to be able to save things up for a very long time.

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I had a similar experience with one of my girls. Looking back, I honestly think getting the large urates to come out with the soaking is what cleared the way for the poop.

- Charles Eye

Personally, I'd soak him. The discomfort of constipation and sausage butt has to be more uncomfortable than taking a soak.

If you want to make it easier on him, only make the water as deep as his diameter and put a clean rock or something of the like in the middle of the tub (they like to have an anchor point to hold on to). Also, make sure the water is about 85 F when you put him in, and then take him out before it gets too cold (I'd say about 77 F at the coolest).

Good luck!

- Charles Eye

Nothing beats an inch or so of lukewarm water, for a soak but also the swimming motion usually does the trick. BPs are snakes that lay around a lot- it's no
coincidence that cage cleaning or handling can also produce "results".

Thank you to everyone for the replies! I've decided I will give Noodle one more week, and if nothing happens or the sausage butt gets worse at any point I will be soaking him and applying the advice regarding that given above. Poor guy, I wonder if I did something wrong to cause this to happen? I don't think he ingested any substrate because I lay down cardboard before feeding and supervise, but maybe it's something like he didn't get enough moisture?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Not pooping (defecating) for a month or longer is actually more common among young snakes, because even though they may eat more often, their prey is also
young, with less hair & smaller bones, so it's more fully digested with far less "left-over" as waste that needs to be expelled. It's typical for them to take any number
of meals before they have to "go".

He does seem to have "sausage butt" going on, but I'd give him a little more time. As far as time between sheds, it varies a great deal & isn't a big concern.
I'm sure that snakes have their own "growth spurts" just like human children do, so don't expect him to have a perfect routine that matches the "average".

Usually handling inspires some "action" from the tail, so I hope he doesn't decorate your sleeve...;)

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I didn't realize it's actually more common for younger snakes, thanks for the correction! And actually he has already "decorated" me once (and very recently) with urates and pee... guess I didn't learn my lesson the first time though lol. Gonna be more careful now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Reading your post almost felt like deja vu, Luvyna! I had the same situation with Iggy back in January. 5 months old at the time, under 200g, and wasn't pooping or peeing despite a regular weekly feeding schedule. This was also a change from his previous norm, and he also developed a mild case of sausage butt, like so:

I tried the warm water bath for him once, I think around the 30-day mark, and it prompted him to produce several large urates and a cloud of liquid pee, but still no poop. He also, unsurprisingly, didn't enjoy the experience one bit, so I decided to avoid trying it again unless absolutely necessary. Finally, at the 37-day mark, he pooped and peed on his own - very explosively, I might add - after I had just finished deep-cleaning his tub and was about to put him back into it. So I guess the moral of the story is, continue keeping a close eye on him, but also no need to panic yet. The little ones seem to be able to save things up for a very long time.

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Wow, that's crazy, are our BPs on the same schedule? Mine also passed two urates and pee (in my lap... as mentioned above) at around day 30, (roughly a week ago now) and is now close to day 40. Really glad to hear yours ended up passing everything on his own, sounds like it was quite the clean up session afterward though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eye4Pythons

I had a similar experience with one of my girls. Looking back, I honestly think getting the large urates to come out with the soaking is what cleared the way for the poop.

- Charles Eye

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Huh, guess this isn't as uncommon as I previously thought then. Mine passed urates a about a week ago so I'm really hoping the rest will come soon.

Remember too that snakes conserve water by not excreting stool & urates very often...this is really what they're "designed" for (how they've evolved), whether
or not they're desert species. They are probably still absorbing some nutrients too. We just "feel" like it's wrong because our metabolism is so much faster.

I've been "decorated" a few times myself...:rofl: I've learned to check for a bulge above the cloaca. ;)

I had a very similar experience with my neonate boa. I soaked her in lukewarm water for 15 minutes then let her crawl through my hands while I massaged her belly. 12 hours later, like the shirt says, “it” happened!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Remember too that snakes conserve water by not excreting stool & urates very often...this is really what they're "designed" for (how they've evolved), whether
or not they're desert species. They are probably still absorbing some nutrients too. We just "feel" like it's wrong because our metabolism is so much faster.

I've been "decorated" a few times myself...:rofl: I've learned to check for a bulge above the cloaca. ;)

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Very true, it's just so different from anything you'd see with mammals. I've been reading up on old threads on this forum about sausage butt cases and there seems to be a pretty even divide between people suggesting to wait until after a shed, and others suggesting to soak.

I guess it's just a part of snake keeping that can't be helped! At least you know the signs now haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eye4Pythons

I had a similar experience with one of my girls. Looking back, I honestly think getting the large urates to come out with the soaking is what cleared the way for the poop.

- Charles Eye

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You're correct...it often happens that their urates turn into a hard 'stone' that is very difficult for them to expel, & sometimes they require help to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luvyna

...I've been reading up on old threads on this forum about sausage butt cases and there seems to be a pretty even divide between people suggesting to wait until after a shed, and others suggesting to soak...

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Actually, both methods work, because when a snake rolls down their old shedding skin, it gets tighter and (ahem!) pushes things to their logical conclusion. ;)
Shedding requires quite a bit of muscular coordination from a snake...watch them sometime, & try to imagine yourself undressing with no hands or feet...

There's more than one "right answer" for this situation: soaking (especially with swimming motions), handling & other activity (as with cage cleaning), & shedding can
all successfully promote a snake to eliminate wastes. Soaking has the advantage that it promotes hydration, but if your snake really freaks out with water, other methods
usually work too.

My new BCI boa had a little sausage butt going on for a little bit. I simply left him alone and he pooped. Now he’s back to normal [emoji23] I think it’s fairly common to occur with young snakes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Finally, at the 37-day mark, he pooped and peed on his own - very explosively, I might add - after I had just finished deep-cleaning his tub and was about to put him back into it. So I guess the moral of the story is, continue keeping a close eye on him, but also no need to panic yet. The little ones seem to be able to save things up for a very long time.

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So what RedRabbit is saying is the best way to make your snake poo is to deep clean the enclosure :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FollowTheSun

So what RedRabbit is saying is the best way to make your snake poo is to deep clean the enclosure :D

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Some snakes do seem to possess a perverse sense of humor. :rolleyes: -though realistically, you have to handle your snake to clean their enclosure, so you're partly to blame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FollowTheSun

So what RedRabbit is saying is the best way to make your snake poo is to deep clean the enclosure :D

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That is exactly how it works. ;)

Update on the situation — after I waited a week, I think Noodle... "deflated"(?) slightly:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2019-04-13.jpg

Here's another angle, there's still a bulge but not as bad as before:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2019-04-13.jpg

I'm confused because I looked all over the enclosure and I don't see any poop. Wondering if he is still slowly digesting what's in there? Argh, why don't ball pythons come with instruction manuals? To soak or not to soak?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luvyna

I'm confused because I looked all over the enclosure and I don't see any poop. Wondering if he is still slowly digesting what's in there? Argh, why don't ball pythons come with instruction manuals? To soak or not to soak?

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Hmm, Noodle is going on week 6 at this point, right? Out of curiosity, have you tried feeling around his vent area just to make sure there isn't anything firm that could be a blockage, like a large/hardened urate? I kind of doubt it, since you mentioned he expelled a good amount of pee and urates onto your lap not too long ago, but it's always reassuring to check.

At this point, if you wanted to give the warm water bath a try, certainly I don't think anyone would fault you for it. Sure, Noodle probably won't like it, but it's hardly the end of the world for him, and if it works, you and he will both probably feel better for it afterwards. Just make sure to be attentive to the water's temperature (aim for 85 F, no warmer than 90 F), and supervise him - both for his safety, and so you can "encourage" him, if needed, to keep moving around (the swimming motions should help get his bowels moving).

Thanks for the input, I did end up soaking him in my sink yesterday but I took him out after around 15 mins. I used a temp gun and the water temp was 90F when I put him in, but as soon as Noodle touched the water he went rigid with fear (he basically just went stiff and his body would stay in the same shape even when I moved him. I tried gently massaging down his body and tail but no results (then again I think the time he was in the water was shorter than recommended). When the water cooled down I took Noodle out and replaced it once but when I put him in the second time he started trying to climb out so I ended up just taking him out.

Before he peed on me I could feel something hard around his vent area but once he passed the urates that was gone. I've felt around his vent again and everything seems to be soft so I don't think he's impacted or anything. If he still doesn't pass anything for another week or two I'm going to try soaking him again for a longer time.

You don't want the water at 90*, that's too warm (you're forcing him to stay at that temperature, & water conducts heat much better than air (as in his cage
at the warm side). It wasn't only "fear" that made him tense up... Next time water should be low to mid 80's.

Definitely noted for next time, maybe that's why he was trying to get out!

Just checking in, any luck with Noodle? If not, hang in there; Iggy held out on me for an even longer stint this time, and just pooped for me yesterday ... after 61 days. No water baths needed, and the poop was truly enormous. If Noodle is still eating regularly, he's probably going to deliver something even more impressive when he finally decides to let loose!

Thanks for checking in! Glad to hear Iggy was able to work things out on her own. Guess some snakes just really like to hold it in.

Good news, Noodle finally unloaded. It was huge. I feel so bad for Noodle, it looked almost painful and he had a lot of gas trapped in him that was finally let out. I think things got held up because he first let out a giant urate, and before that, he was looking quite bloated so I was planning to take him to the vet if our most recent soak yielded no results. Amazingly he continued to eat voraciously each week despite this.

Noodle got soaked another two times, each 1 week apart. The first time was for 45 mins and though I got him to do some swimming motions, nothing happened. He had another soak today and after 15 minutes he finally went. It looks like he is going into shed as well now.

I feel like I must have done something wrong for this to happen, while some snakes don't go for a long time I think he was constipated due to the huge urate and how hard his poop was. I'm trying to figure out what might have caused this, gonna try raising the humidity for the coming month and feed him wet rats (on cardboard so he won't ingest substrate) to see if that helps.

It's good to hear that Noodle has finally been able to relieve himself. It does sound like that large urate was acting like a "cork" holding in all that gas and poop behind it, but at the same time, it's not uncommon for BP bowel movements to be quite ... forceful, even on a good day. (There's a reason why we have a few forum threads along the lines of "was that an explosion in the next room, or did my BP just pass gas?") If Noodle is still eating well for you and shedding on schedule (an indication of growth), then this may just be how his little GI tract operates, but if you want to take some additional measures to ensure he's hydrating well, that's reasonable. What humidity level had you been maintaining for him previously, and how much are you planning to bump it up?

I'm glad to hear that if he's still eating well and shedding on schedule things are most likely roughly in the range of normal. Haven't heard an "explosion" yet lol but I have seen some of those threads too. It's pretty amazing what the small bodies of BPs are capable of.

The humidity was 50-60% before, I'm thinking of bumping up to 60-70%