Heating pad problems

I've posted this on 2 other sites and so far nothing has worked and this is starting to get really discouraging. I've gone through 3 heating pads, done everything I could possibly think of, and nothing is fixing the heating problem. I use a Jumpstart Thermostat, Etekcity temp gun, and ultratherm heat pad. I've had the stat probe directly on the heating pad in the center, I moved it around when that didn't work, I had the tank directly on the heating pad, I had the tank held up on coasters, I switched to the small tank ''feet'' that come with some heating pads, I've taped the heating pad to the tank with the stat probe in between, I've taped the stat probe to the bottom of the tank and had the heat pad underneath it, I don't know what to do. I know that the stat needs to be set higher than the wanted temperature and I did that. It doesn't work. I had it set to 96 and the tank went to 93 so I turned it down 3 and it went down to 87 so I turned it up 1 and it's still on 87. It just does whatever. And it isn't because the room is too cold. There's a heater in the room that turns on and keeps it from getting too cold and turns off before it gets too hot.

I really don't know what to do anymore, any help is greatly appreciated.

Are you trying to control ambient temps with your UTH or simply trying to get a hot spot?

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Are you trying to control ambient temps with your UTH or simply trying to get a hot spot?

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Trying to get a hot spot

So what what the problem with 93 degrees?
A regulated heat pad will do little to nothing for ambient temperatures.
You are temping UNDER the substrate?
Thermostat probe outside the enclosure.

Ok. I'm not sure I'm reading your question right, but we'll see...

The probe goes outside the enclosure sandwiched between the UTH and the glass/tub.

The UTH should be stuck to the bottom of the enclosure (you may need to use aluminum tape)

The enclosure should be slightly elevated from the surface it's on to allow for airflow.

You should be using your temp gun to measure the actual surface temp, not the substrate.

Your tstat could be anywhere from 2-10° different from your actual surface temp. It's just a matter of trial and error with no one answer due to tons of variables.

For BPs you should be aiming for 88-89 for a hot spot.


I hope this helps. If not please feel free to follow up and I'll try to clarify. I kept my reply vague, so please forgive if I was too vague

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

So what what the problem with 93 degrees?
A regulated heat pad will do little to nothing for ambient temperatures.
You are temping UNDER the substrate?
Thermostat probe outside the enclosure.

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Well 93 degrees was a bit hot, plus it would still mess up and eventually go to another temperature.
Yes, I move the bedding and check the temp on the cage bottom.
The probe is outside on the heating pad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Ok. I'm not sure I'm reading your question right, but we'll see...

The probe goes outside the enclosure sandwiched between the UTH and the glass/tub.

The UTH should be stuck to the bottom of the enclosure (you may need to use aluminum tape)

The enclosure should be slightly elevated from the surface it's on to allow for airflow.

You should be using your temp gun to measure the actual surface temp, not the substrate.

Your tstat could be anywhere from 2-10° different from your actual surface temp. It's just a matter of trial and error with no one answer due to tons of variables.

For BPs you should be aiming for 88-89 for a hot spot.


I hope this helps. If not please feel free to follow up and I'll try to clarify. I kept my reply vague, so please forgive if I was too vague

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sorry it's a bit hard for me to describe what the problem is. To simplify everything, the heating pad is just heating it to random temperatures. I cannot control it with the thermostat because it will just do whatever. It isn't from a faulty heating pad because I've already bought 3.

I looked over everything that could possibly be wrong and what I'm seeing is that when the heating pad is first plugged in, it eventually heats up to a good temperature and the hot spot is perfect. After a while, the tank just isn't getting heated up. The heat pad is still working but not giving enough heat to the tank even when I turn it up higher. The only possible thing I can think of is that the thermostat turning the heating pad off is making the tank cool down quicker than it's being heated.

That just sounds like a fluctuation due to the "on/off" thermostat, as opposed to proportional thermostats.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

That just sounds like a fluctuation due to the "on/off" thermostat, as opposed to proportional thermostats.

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I just don't understand why it's messing up this bad though. I know of lots of people that use the same kind as mine and don't have problems. Should I get a different thermostat then? If so which one(s) do you recommend?

He bud,

Multiple reasons:

1) Jumpstart and similar thermostats are on/off thermostats so that when temp > set temp (say 90 F) it shuts off electricity and the the heat starts to escape. As the temperature starts to drop (as measured by the probe), the thermostat allows power to reach the heat mat and so on and so forth. Some thermostats work by reducing the wattage?/voltage? that reaches the heat mat and thus reducing its temperature without abruptly shutting off.

2) I am guessing that your probe is giving you the temperature of whatever surface its touching and your temperature gun/reader is giving you the surface temperature inside the tank/vivarium and those are two different things because some of the temperature dissipates and some is absorbed by the medium (glass).

What I do, is I glue (glue-gun kind of glue) my temperature probes on the base of my hide so that the temperature those cheap thermostats (Jumpstart and co.) read is exactly the temperature the snake is touching

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

What I do, is I glue (glue-gun kind of glue) my temperature probes on the base of my hide so that the temperature those cheap thermostats (Jumpstart and co.) read is exactly the temperature the snake is touching

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How do you take your hides out to clean them?

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

How do you take your hides out to clean them?

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Only the prove is glued down to the tank, PVC and tub floors. Hit just sits on top. I should've said "tank floor.."

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Originally Posted by ShawarmaPoutine

Only the prove is glued down to the tank, PVC and tub floors. Hit just sits on top. I should've said "tank floor.."

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Oh ok. Either way, the probes belong outside the enclosure. They can be peed on, laid on, moved (even when hot glued) etc...which can all cause false readings.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

That just sounds like a fluctuation due to the "on/off" thermostat, as opposed to proportional thermostats.

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^^ This 100% OP. Jumpstart is an on/off thermostat with a +/- 2 degree difference in temperature control. So if you set the thermostat to 88, it will cool down to 86 before turning the UTH on and will heat up to 90 before turning off. UTH and on/off thermostat temps are really approximate at best. There will be a difference between what you set the thermostat for and glass temperature due to things like ambient room temp, trapped heat, the fact that it's a pain in the butt to get a UTH to lay completely flat over a probe, etc. The 2 important things are that you aim for anywhere between 88-90 as a hot spot and that the thermostat will prevent the UTH from getting too hot, therefore preventing burns.

Your best bet may be to supplement your hot side with a heat lamp on a dimmer or CHE on a separate thermostat to prevent the temp swings. I use infrared bulbs with dimmers and UTH with my glass setups. All of my UTHs are on Jumpstarts. Both heating methods combined with my ambient room temperature means none of my thermostats need to be set higher than 88 degrees. Most are set between 86-88 to achieve a 90 degree hot spot. You just have to experiment to see what works best in your environment. :) Hope this helps!

Edited to say that if you have a smaller enclosure (ie, 10 gallon), only supplement with a heat lamp/CHE if you also need to bring up your ambient temps.

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

^^ This 100% OP. Jumpstart is an on/off thermostat with a +/- 2 degree difference in temperature control. So if you set the thermostat to 88, it will cool down to 86 before turning the UTH on and will heat up to 90 before turning off. UTH and on/off thermostat temps are really approximate at best. There will be a difference between what you set the thermostat for and glass temperature due to things like ambient room temp, trapped heat, the fact that it's a pain in the butt to get a UTH to lay completely flat over a probe, etc. The 2 important things are that you aim for anywhere between 88-90 as a hot spot and that the thermostat will prevent the UTH from getting too hot, therefore preventing burns.

Your best bet may be to supplement your hot side with a heat lamp on a dimmer or CHE on a separate thermostat to prevent the temp swings. I use infrared bulbs with dimmers and UTH with my glass setups. All of my UTHs are on Jumpstarts. Both heating methods combined with my ambient room temperature means none of my thermostats need to be set higher than 88 degrees. Most are set between 86-88 to achieve a 90 degree hot spot. You just have to experiment to see what works best in your environment. :) Hope this helps!

Edited to say that if you have a smaller enclosure (ie, 10 gallon), only supplement with a heat lamp/CHE if you also need to bring up your ambient temps.

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Thank you but is that really all I can do? I'd really prefer not to buy even more heating stuff when a heat pad should be enough. Plenty of other people have no problems with this and I don't see a reason why it's so difficult for me specifically to get the right temperature. Is it going to be like this for every cage and heating pad? I'd be fine with getting a new thermostat if that would make it better, I'm honestly tired of this because it's caused so many problems and nobody seems to know of an actual way to fix it.

There are some thermostats that allow you to set a maximum temperature fluctuation differential so that it will keep the temperature fluctuation within the degree range you set, which might help in your situation. I have an Inkbird thermostat that does this, but if you choose this brand be warned that it gives off a high pitched buzz that will drive you insane if you have to be in the same room with it.

I have the problem with swinging UTH temperatures as well. I use a Zoomed Reptitherm UTH and a Jumpstart thermostat. I have my thermostat set to 92F but the temp fluctuates between 86-93F. I wouldn't worry about the temperatures as long as they don't get lower than 86 or higher than 94.

I'm at work so i just skimmed through here but it almost sounds like your thermostat isn't working right. That or your thermometer isn't reading correctly

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

Thank you but is that really all I can do? I'd really prefer not to buy even more heating stuff when a heat pad should be enough. Plenty of other people have no problems with this and I don't see a reason why it's so difficult for me specifically to get the right temperature. Is it going to be like this for every cage and heating pad? I'd be fine with getting a new thermostat if that would make it better, I'm honestly tired of this because it's caused so many problems and nobody seems to know of an actual way to fix it.

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Out of curiosity, what are your ambient (air) temps? A hot spot is important, yes, but so is having a temperature gradient from warm side to cool so that your snake can thermoregulate. Depending on how your enclosure and your room temperatures, a heat pad really may not be enough. You want about 80 degrees on the cool end. And how are you measuring your temps? Apologies if I missed you mentioning that earlier.

As others have said, a range of acceptable hot spot temps is fine. 88-90 is ideal, but 87 - 91/92 won't do any harm. You simply aren't going to "fix" or get a constant hot spot temp with an on/off thermostat (ie, Jumpstart).

The most popular proportional thermostats are probably Herpstats (manufactured by Spyder Robotics) and Vivarium Electronics (made by Reptile Basics). These works by maintaining a constant set temperature.

Different cage types are easier to maintain. You can make pretty much anything work, but it takes some experimenting. As an example, a lot of people dislike glass tanks because of the difficulty maintaining heat and humidity. Ball pythons can definitely thrive in glass enclosures, but you may need to work at it more. Other popular options are tubs, either standalone tubs that are modified or tubs in a rack system. PVC cages are also popular (Animal Plastics, Reptile Basics, Herptastic, Boaphile, etc.) and a lot of people use Radiant Heat Panels as the sole heating element for those (from ProProducts or Reptile Basics).

A final note: It sounds like you are a new keeper. We've all been there. I get being frustrated when it seems like things aren't working how they should be. But your original question was asking why your hot spot has temperature swings. Multiple people explained why in this thread. You've gotten a lot of advice on possible ways to address this and also reassurances that a range in hotspot temps is okay as long as not too hot or too cold.

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

sorry it's a bit hard for me to describe what the problem is. To simplify everything, the heating pad is just heating it to random temperatures. I cannot control it with the thermostat because it will just do whatever.

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What do you mean "random temperatures" and "will do whatever"? From your first post I read that you set the stat at 96, got a temp too high, dialed it down and got to 87F, which should be just fine. Are you sometimes getting much lower temps? How much lower?

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

The only possible thing I can think of is that the thermostat turning the heating pad off is making the tank cool down quicker than it's being heated.

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Which raises the real question. What is the ambient temp of the room? The direct heat of the UTH against the stat probe will read high enough to turn off the UTH, but if the room is too cold, the heat will dissipate through the material and substrate before reaching the surface where you're measuring it.

FYI most on/off thermostats have 5 to 6 degree swing

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

FYI most on/off thermostats have 5 to 6 degree swing

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Yes, Jumpstart I believe says they have a +/- 2 degree in either direction. But whether that correlates to what the actual glass temp measures is something else entirely. :)

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

Out of curiosity, what are your ambient (air) temps? A hot spot is important, yes, but so is having a temperature gradient from warm side to cool so that your snake can thermoregulate. Depending on how your enclosure and your room temperatures, a heat pad really may not be enough. You want about 80 degrees on the cool end. And how are you measuring your temps? Apologies if I missed you mentioning that earlier.

As others have said, a range of acceptable hot spot temps is fine. 88-90 is ideal, but 87 - 91/92 won't do any harm. You simply aren't going to "fix" or get a constant hot spot temp with an on/off thermostat (ie, Jumpstart).

The most popular proportional thermostats are probably Herpstats (manufactured by Spyder Robotics) and Vivarium Electronics (made by Reptile Basics). These works by maintaining a constant set temperature.

Different cage types are easier to maintain. You can make pretty much anything work, but it takes some experimenting. As an example, a lot of people dislike glass tanks because of the difficulty maintaining heat and humidity. Ball pythons can definitely thrive in glass enclosures, but you may need to work at it more. Other popular options are tubs, either standalone tubs that are modified or tubs in a rack system. PVC cages are also popular (Animal Plastics, Reptile Basics, Herptastic, Boaphile, etc.) and a lot of people use Radiant Heat Panels as the sole heating element for those (from ProProducts or Reptile Basics).

A final note: It sounds like you are a new keeper. We've all been there. I get being frustrated when it seems like things aren't working how they should be. But your original question was asking why your hot spot has temperature swings. Multiple people explained why in this thread. You've gotten a lot of advice on possible ways to address this and also reassurances that a range in hotspot temps is okay as long as not too hot or too cold.

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The room has a heater that I turn on frequently at a set temperature to keep the room from getting too cold. I measure the temps in the cage with an etekcity temp gun. I do understand that it's fine for the heating pad to go down to 87, but it isn't fine when it stays cold in the tank and there's nothing I can do to set it to the desired temperature. My snake went on a feeding strike for a month and one week. This is especially bad given he was only 4 months old when I got him. He had gotten very lethargic and wasn't acting like a ball python should. The third heating pad seemed to work better and for a while it heated it up enough that he started feeling better and has eaten twice. Yes, the heating pad sometimes stays at 88-91 which is what I want but say it was a bit colder and my snake wasn't getting enough heat so I wanted to turn it up a bit. I can't. Obviously, the thermostat needs to be set higher when the probe is directly on the heating pad. There have been times when the thermostat was set up to 99 and the tank never heated up more than 87. The probe heats up super quick and the heating pad is turned off before the heat reaches the tank. Yes, I am a new snake owner. I've never owned any type of reptile before. I've read stuff, watched videos, and all that about setting up heating pads and I've done pretty much exactly what I've seen and read but it just doesn't work for me.

The temp in the room gets down to 73 which is what it normally is in the rest of the house but the heater in the room raises it to the higher 70s.

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

I do understand that it's fine for the heating pad to go down to 87, but it isn't fine when it stays cold in the tank and there's nothing I can do to set it to the desired temperature.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanTheNoodleMan

There have been times when the thermostat was set up to 99 and the tank never heated up more than 87.

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As I read earlier in this thread, you are trying to create a hot spot, not heat the whole tank with a UTH, so I'm not sure what to make of these comments.

As has been mentioned before, a UTH is never going to heat the whole tank. UTHs are used to create hot spots only and cannot provide the ambient temps needed. but it seems you understand that since you set up a space heater, which just makes your above statements more confusing.

However, 73 ambient is not enough. Most breeders I know warm the reptile room up to 77 or so. That way the cool side is always at least 77, and a hot spot can be provided with a UTH.

You sound stressed but be assured this community wants to be helpful. I'm afraid that you haven't made the situation clear, pics and exact temperatures would be great. You say it stays "cold in the tank". In the tank or on the hotspot? How cold? 85? 80? 78? 73? That information is important to understand what is going on.

Finally, and even without that information, I'll tell you exactly what the solution is. If we are talking about a TANK and not a tub. This is what you should do:

Get a hold of a ceramic heat emitter (CHE). Junk the UTH all together. Plug the CHE into the thermostat and place the probe appropriately inside the tank. Finally unplug the space heater and put it away.

Sorry but its a little overboard to permanently heat a whole room for just one snake. If you had, I don't know, 10 snakes then yeah, heat the room and use UTHs, but for just one? Nah, waste of electricity. It makes much more sense to just heat the tank directly with a CHE. If you have a tub that is a totally different story.

You want to get a few Accurite thermometers also, as it sounds like you don't have any. Without a thermometer, you really don't know what the ambient temp is. They're cheap on Amazon, I get 'em for $10 or so, and they give humidity as well.

Don't get discouraged. Snake keeping is a great and rewarding hobby, but can be really stressful at first. Hell, my bald spot expanded a whole inch within months of getting my first corn snake!

OP, you sound a lot like me. I want perfection for my animals and I go crazy trying to figure out how to do it.

For me the solution was first to make sure that the room was staying (mostly) in the mid to high 70's, with a slight natural drop at night, then getting the best thermostat money can buy (herpstat, in my opinion) which means instead of keeping the area the probe contacts swinging from 87 to 93, it keeps it within 0.1 of the set temperature.

The next thing I've done is ordered pro products heat panels which I'm excited to install soon.

But, that's a lot of money, and I also understand you wanting to make the setup you have work. But it is just like anything else: the $50 solution is not going to be as good as the $300 solution, so you can't expect it to operate as efficiently, with the same level of stability, or as safely.

In the interim, I would focus on keeping the room in the high 70's and keep the hot spot within a safe range for now. Keep in mind, these animals deal with temperature fluctuations in the wild, and even with temperatures perfect some snakes will still fast (because they are generally overfed in captivity).

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Originally Posted by JRLongton

As I read earlier in this thread, you are trying to create a hot spot, not heat the whole tank with a UTH, so I'm not sure what to make of these comments.

As has been mentioned before, a UTH is never going to heat the whole tank. UTHs are used to create hot spots only and cannot provide the ambient temps needed. but it seems you understand that since you set up a space heater, which just makes your above statements more confusing.

However, 73 ambient is not enough. Most breeders I know warm the reptile room up to 77 or so. That way the cool side is always at least 77, and a hot spot can be provided with a UTH.

You sound stressed but be assured this community wants to be helpful. I'm afraid that you haven't made the situation clear, pics and exact temperatures would be great. You say it stays "cold in the tank". In the tank or on the hotspot? How cold? 85? 80? 78? 73? That information is important to understand what is going on.

Finally, and even without that information, I'll tell you exactly what the solution is. If we are talking about a TANK and not a tub. This is what you should do:

Get a hold of a ceramic heat emitter (CHE). Junk the UTH all together. Plug the CHE into the thermostat and place the probe appropriately inside the tank. Finally unplug the space heater and put it away.

Sorry but its a little overboard to permanently heat a whole room for just one snake. If you had, I don't know, 10 snakes then yeah, heat the room and use UTHs, but for just one? Nah, waste of electricity. It makes much more sense to just heat the tank directly with a CHE. If you have a tub that is a totally different story.

You want to get a few Accurite thermometers also, as it sounds like you don't have any. Without a thermometer, you really don't know what the ambient temp is. They're cheap on Amazon, I get 'em for $10 or so, and they give humidity as well.

Don't get discouraged. Snake keeping is a great and rewarding hobby, but can be really stressful at first. Hell, my bald spot expanded a whole inch within months of getting my first corn snake!

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sorry for the confusion, when I say tank I mean only a specific part of the tank, the hot spot. And when I said the tank isn't heating up, I meant the hot spot isn't maintaining a high enough temperature. The temp on the hot spot constantly changes which I wouldn't mind if it stayed in a good temperature range but it has gotten really hot and it's also lowered to 85. It doesn't stay at 73 in the room, it just dropped that low but the heater turns on then. Right now it's set at 75.

Seeing that you have had the same problem with 3 UTH I would suspect your thermostat is bad.
Then again we can only go by the information you provide.