Which snake to get after a Corn?

I plan on getting something at this summer's reptile expo. But it won't be a Corn. All I know is that I want a colubrid. I was thinking a Gopher or a Bull, but that hissing would be a turn off. I like Milks but which sub-species to get. Maybe even a Garter? King?

So what's the next step up? :confusd: Think, something in the still-a-beginner-stage.. Thx.

Have u thought about a hognose? I love those

Bull snakes can be hit or miss, but they are impressive animals, from what I've seen and heard. However, if you get a tame one, he/she will probably stay that way.

Gophers I hear are a little better, but still kind of in the middle.

Pine snakes, I think, are supposed to be a little more chill, and look similar to bulls.

There are some crazy morphs of both bull and gopher snakes, and you can always talk with the breeders and handle them.

I have no experience with any of them, but know people who have. Full disclosure.

I have had bad experiences with king snakes, and have heard mixed things about handling milksnakes.

I think a lot depends on the individual animal.

Carpet pythons are known for being bitey as babies, but I have yet to get a strike from my carpet. However, I spoke with the breeder and picked the calmest and most docile animal he had in the morph I wanted.

Snake Discovery, who has a youtube channel, has done a bunch of videos on Bull Snakes, and I believe they breed those, and pine snakes, and fox snakes. They could be a good resource, even if you buy from someone else.

Anyway, I rambled here, but look for something that catches your eye and your heart. You are going to a show and will have options. Talk to the breeders as well and see who stands out to them as being calm.

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

Have u thought about a hognose? I love those

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A second this opinion. Hogies are awesome. I might end up coming home with one from Tinley next weekend :D

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Originally Posted by DLreptile

I plan on getting something at this summer's reptile expo. But it won't be a Corn. All I know is that I want a colubrid. I was thinking a Gopher or a Bull, but that hissing would be a turn off. I like Milks but which sub-species to get. Maybe even a Garter? King?

So what's the next step up? :confusd: Think, something in the still-a-beginner-stage.. Thx.

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If you get a hatchling, most gopher/bull/or pine snakes tame down very nicely. I've not had any pine snakes actually, but I've bred & raised both gopher & bull snakes
in the past. There are a few that stay feisty but at an expo, you'll be able to pick out a calm one. You shouldn't let a little hiss put you off anyway...it's actually pretty
cute, & they don't continue it as pets.* It's similar to hognose snakes: if you get one because it's cute when they play dead, well, once you treat them as a pet, you
won't see that either. Another thing many snakes do is rattle their tails when they're upset or afraid...again, you may never see that, at least not for long. *These
behaviors are defense-mechanisms for hatchling...they start off very small & vulnerable...if they don't defend themselves vigorously, they don't survive, grow & breed.

Bull & gopher snakes are sturdy constrictors that get about 6' (eventually, not "overnight") & I've never found them difficult to handle...they're fairly smart & don't bite,
assuming you initially take some time to handle them considerately. They are NOT likely to confuse you with food, unlike some kings, & they're fun (easy) to feed f/t.

If you like docile snakes that handle well, there's a couple rat snakes you might look into. My favorites are Trans Pecos rat snakes (they max out about 4') and Baird's
rat snakes (get up to about 6'). I enjoy most rat snakes anyway, I've kept many other kinds besides what I currently have: the others are perfectly tame-able, but
they aren't as naturally calm as the Trans Pecos & Bairds.

I've had various milk & king snakes over the years: for handling, I'd recommend most king snakes over the more nervous (flighty) milk snakes. But I still prefer the
outgoing personality of rat snakes, & some king snakes are heavily-food-focused (ie. are hard to convince your hands aren't edible).

It really comes down to your personal preferences...what appeals most to you. There are more kinds besides...just keep reading up & meeting all that you can. And
remember, snakes have individual personalities anyway...and much of that depends on your ability to patiently bring it out.

Oh, one more kind to look into: an Australian spotted python. They stay small, about the size of a middle-aged corn snake, & while they need a warm cage,
they are much easier to keep than a BP...they prefer f/t food, & they are small, so adults can only eat hopper/small adult mice at the most. Very engaging
little constrictors!

My vote would be King, hands down.

Mexican black kings are awesome. Very easy to care for and good temperament. They are gorgeous with the glossy black. Some people refer to them as a poor man's indigo

I have a ratsnake and I really love and enjoy her curious nature (very similar to corn snakes from what I understand).She won't cuddle for long though. My second snake was a Ball Python, and although it's taken some learning to adjust to his finicky feeding habits, humidiy needs, etc. he is a very wonderful second snake. He is a cuddler, and he's the one I have on my lap while watching TV. It's nice to have that balance of an active snake and a mellow snake.

If I were going to get another snake (which I am not at this time . . :please:) it would be a hognose. I've heard they have a mild venom but they don't bite often, if you handle them with respect and raise them from very small. They just seem like really neat (and cute!) snakes full of personality but not too huge to become difficult house and care for.

I never understood the rep Bullsnakes get for their defensiveness. I've picked up, taken their temp, measured, weighed, etc. a ton of wild Bulls (best weekend was over 20 Bulls -I'd have to check my notes for a hard number but certainly over 20) … Anyway, over the years I can only remember one of them putting up a decent effort into trying to bite me and even that old boy mellowed out without me having to restrain his melon while I took his stats. Only a few have hissed at me too...:confusd:

Bulls are impressive snakes as adults and they have called to me many times but keeping wild ones for a couple weeks at a time for group trainings always tempered that idea. I decided I didn't want to dedicate the large size of the environment that I thought would be necessary due to their activity and their ability to rearrange an enclosure is impressive.

That being said, I'm sure a captive born one is somewhat different than their free brothers. Finding a reputable breeder willing to share his or her thoughts on the matter would probably be more help.

I've seen hognose pop up a few times during this thread. Hognose are awesome little snakes, but can be a bit tricky to get going. If you go that route, I'd suggest a well started female. Males can be tricky to get eating.

This might seem oddly specific, but I recommend a thayers kingsnake (also called variable kingsnake). Mine is far less aggressive than the cali kings I've had and not flighty like many milksnakes. They also stay a bit smaller than cali kings and the larger bull and gopher snakes and seem to have a reasonable appetite.

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Originally Posted by bns

I never understood the rep Bullsnakes get for their defensiveness. I've picked up, taken their temp, measured, weighed, etc. a ton of wild Bulls (best weekend was over 20 Bulls -I'd have to check my notes for a hard number but certainly over 20) … Anyway, over the years I can only remember one of them putting up a decent effort into trying to bite me and even that old boy mellowed out without me having to restrain his melon while I took his stats. Only a few have hissed at me too...:confusd:

Bulls are impressive snakes as adults and they have called to me many times but keeping wild ones for a couple weeks at a time for group trainings always tempered that idea. I decided I didn't want to dedicate the large size of the environment that I thought would be necessary due to their activity and their ability to rearrange an enclosure is impressive.

That being said, I'm sure a captive born one is somewhat different than their free brothers. Finding a reputable breeder willing to share his or her thoughts on the matter would probably be more help.

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There weren't any wild bull snakes where I lived for many years (CA desert) but we had (very similar) native gopher snakes, & I agree with you. These are generally
"aware" snakes that seem intelligent. I too handled some wild ones to relocate, even big adults that did NOT bite me for picking them up (gently & mid-body, never
grabbing at them like a predator). I have also bred & raised some actual bull snakes from an unrelated pair of adults: my adults were both easily handled. I'd gotten
the male at several months of age & he was always mellow. The female was given to me years later as an adult...she was somewhat feisty but still handleable, & much
of that I attributed to her lack of handling with her former owner. Their offspring were impressively scrappy, some more than others were willing to bite, not just hiss
about it, lol. Had they been wild snakes, they sure seemed to be likely survivors. :D As it was, most mellowed pretty quickly, but beyond that I can't say. (I already
had a house-full of snakes, so they had to be sold. All were easy to feed, that's typical.)

You brought up a good point though- about keeping these kinds of snakes in large cages: they are diurnal (day time) ACTIVE hunters & can be restless (prone to nose
rubbing) in cages, even in large cages. They are NOT meant to be kept in "tubs"! So please consider this when you determine if these kinds of snakes are right for you.
They do great with frequent interaction (handling outside of their cage) and I never had any that bit me, they are not confused about what is "food", nor are they easily
stressed into not feeding. And you sure won't need a hair-dryer for their food. ;) F/T is readily taken. Fun snakes for the right person. :snake:

I spent some time with the gophers in nor Cal...it was the first time I ever saw any...1990ish.

The wife in motorcycle gear picking up a wild one:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmSNHAVCS8QfbtVix
Me with a couple good sized ones:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmRwHjXJQ6qsJeE9j
A member here with one (I'll withhold his name and show the crappy pick without his face ;)):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmR-UQv_BRBZeRS3b
And another cool monster talked about on this thread:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmRgLwUmYdimMXGtH

Hey OP, this seems on topic to me but if you'd rather not have this on the thread just say so...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bns

I spent some time with the gophers in nor Cal...it was the first time I ever saw any...1990ish.

The wife in motorcycle gear picking up a wild one:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmSNHAVCS8QfbtVix
Me with a couple good sized ones:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmRwHjXJQ6qsJeE9j
A member here with one (I'll withhold his name and show the crappy pick without his face ;)):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmR-UQv_BRBZeRS3b
And another cool monster talked about on this thread:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmRgLwUmYdimMXGtH

Hey OP, this seems on topic to me but if you'd rather not have this on the thread just say so...

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Great pics! Yup, California gopher snakes are awesome...:D Nice hoggy-mouth too...

Don't rule out the Hognose snakes. They are great keepers one they get started off right and have tons of character. Plus they stay at a nice size. The Gophers are another good choice IMO. I have 2 San Diego Gopher snakes and each one has their own personality. To me they are like the Hoggies in a way they are all hiss and bluff and rarely bite (at least mine are).
The Kings are ok, but they tend musk and are too wiggly for me. Another suggestion would be a rat snake. There are tons of different species of rat snakes and not all are hissy and nippy. The Trans-Pecos rat snake is very docile as well as the Baird's rat snake. Nevertheless, do your research and balance out the "pros and cons" and pick the one that is right for you....GOOD LUCK! :gj:

Hoggies ate rear/fanged of course and as such are regarded as mildly venomous ... they don’t bite that often but a bite CAN can be fairly serious


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Hoggies ate rear/fanged of course and as such are regarded as mildly venomous ... they don’t bite that often but a bite CAN can be fairly serious


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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I've kept hognose snakes but never had any bites from them: typically their bites are more noticeable than bites from harmless snakes, but if you happen to be allergic
or have other health issues (like with your immune system), that could put the bite in a more serious category for sure. The trouble with allergic responses is that you
don't always know until it happens.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I've kept hognose snakes but never had any bites from them: typically their bites are more noticeable than bites from harmless snakes, but if you happen to be allergic
or have other health issues (like with your immune system), that could put the bite in a more serious category for sure. The trouble with allergic responses is that you
don't always know until it happens.

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On this topic, I did not get a hognose, even though I wanted one, because I am immune suppressed due to a kidney transplant.

I've heard, but not verified, that if you are allergic to bee stings, a hognose bite is worse.

Have you considered Baird's Ratsnakes or Trans-Pecos Rat snakes? Both are unusual, very cool, and beautiful animals.

Baird's do not look like much as babies - grey, but look at the parents. As adults they can look like a rainbow.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...219b413b56.jpg

Trans-Pecos come in a variety of colors as well.

Also, you have a corn snake. Have you thought of something exotic like a scaleless corn? I had a male hypo-lavender corn (Figment) for a while, but decided to get a second corn, Solana, a scaleless sunglow, motley, red factor, corn, from Don at South Mountain Reptiles. No regrets. She's amazing. Also, the two (corns) have totally different personalities. Figment is hyper and all over the place (all though completely docile and friendly) and Solana must be part Boa; she's calm and sweet and moves very slowly for a colubrid in my experience.

My point is, no two are alike. Same with my two Boas, or my three leopard geckos; each have their own personality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bns

I never understood the rep Bullsnakes get for their defensiveness. I've picked up, taken their temp, measured, weighed, etc. a ton of wild Bulls (best weekend was over 20 Bulls -I'd have to check my notes for a hard number but certainly over 20) … Anyway, over the years I can only remember one of them putting up a decent effort into trying to bite me and even that old boy mellowed out without me having to restrain his melon while I took his stats. Only a few have hissed at me too...:confusd:

....

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I understand!

The first bullsnake I encountered in the wild hissed and struck wildly. Not too surprising, though. It was sleeping beside a log, and my buddy and I rolled the log over it before realizing it was there. Another bullsnake had the most rotten disposition I've ever seen in a snake. That one had been in the posession of a local kid for two weeks before I got her. The kid had ruined her dispossion and her nose by banging on the box several times a day until she struck at the wire top. I forgave her for everything because she laid eggs a few weeks later and then became my first breeder female snake. Setting dogs on a bullsnake is another way to terrify it.

After writing all that, I can also say that most of the wild bullsnakes I've encountered have been good tempered to start with and get better with time and handling. Captive bred bullsnakes are better. I don't keep bullsnakes now. The state protects them. Which means you can kill every one you see; you're unlikely to get caught. :(

I've kept an assortment of snakes from the Pituophis group (pine snakes, bullsnake, and gopher snakes). Sonora gophers are great, and black pines are the most mellow of the ones I've had.

Of the kings, I've only had California kings. They are more timid than corns but are generally good.

Milks are snake eaters. That turned me off the whole milk snake group. But if you want one, go for a Honduran. They are bigger and have prettier colors than most of the USA milks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulh

I understand!

The first bullsnake I encountered in the wild hissed and struck wildly. Not too surprising, though. It was sleeping beside a log, and my buddy and I rolled the log over it before realizing it was there. Another bullsnake had the most rotten disposition I've ever seen in a snake. That one had been in the posession of a local kid for two weeks before I got her. The kid had ruined her dispossion and her nose by banging on the box several times a day until she struck at the wire top. I forgave her for everything because she laid eggs a few weeks later and then became my first breeder female snake. Setting dogs on a bullsnake is another way to terrify it.

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I guess I don't understand your post...While the observations you cite could certainly influence one's thoughts on a bullsnake's ability or willingness to defend itself while being molested; the behavior exhibited by a few (or all of them) while being abused would not be information I would use to understand their demeanor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulh

I understand!

The first bullsnake I encountered in the wild hissed and struck wildly. Not too surprising, though. It was sleeping beside a log, and my buddy and I rolled the log over it before realizing it was there. Another bullsnake had the most rotten disposition I've ever seen in a snake. That one had been in the posession of a local kid for two weeks before I got her. The kid had ruined her dispossion and her nose by banging on the box several times a day until she struck at the wire top. I forgave her for everything because she laid eggs a few weeks later and then became my first breeder female snake. Setting dogs on a bullsnake is another way to terrify it.

After writing all that, I can also say that most of the wild bullsnakes I've encountered have been good tempered to start with and get better with time and handling. Captive bred bullsnakes are better. I don't keep bullsnakes now. The state protects them. Which means you can kill every one you see; you're unlikely to get caught. :(

I've kept an assortment of snakes from the Pituophis group (pine snakes, bullsnake, and gopher snakes). Sonora gophers are great, and black pines are the most mellow of the ones I've had.

Of the kings, I've only had California kings. They are more timid than corns but are generally good.

Milks are snake eaters. That turned me off the whole milk snake group. But if you want one, go for a Honduran. They are bigger and have prettier colors than most of the USA milks.

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There’s a few snake eaters though to be fair to Milks ... Kings ... even those beautiful Woma pythons eat lizards or snakes. Woma’s eat many species of Australia's most venomous snakes and is actually immune to venomous snake bites.


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I agree, you can't hold what they eat in the wild against such beautiful & fairly docile snakes like milk & king snakes. I happen to keep a Texas longnose snake-
he is tricolor (orange-red/black/cream) & eats nothing but f/t fuzzy mice, though in the wild he'd prefer lizards & probably smaller snakes. They aren't common
as pets though, because they are very difficult to get started on an alternative diet. They have a small & narrow mouth, & a slender build, so they are fed multiple
small prey rather than sizing up to larger mice; a typical meal for him is 5 f/t fuzzies, though he's currently fasting for winter. I must be doing something right (?)-
he's 17 years old. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bns

I guess I don't understand your post...While the observations you cite could certainly influence one's thoughts on a bullsnake's ability or willingness to defend itself while being molested; the behavior exhibited by a few (or all of them) while being abused would not be information I would use to understand their demeanor.

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Bullsnake defensive behavior is out towards the extreme end of snake defensive behavior. And reputations develop from people remembering the extremes, not the average. I've wondered why bullsnakes have developed such behavior. From needing to get a buffalo's attention so it won't step on the snake?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulh

Bullsnake defensive behavior is out towards the extreme end of snake defensive behavior. And reputations develop from people remembering the extremes, not the average. I've wondered why bullsnakes have developed such behavior. From needing to get a buffalo's attention so it won't step on the snake?

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That's a decent theory that actually makes some sense...the ones making the most commotion survived (didn't get stepped on, or were dropped by other startled
predators such as hawks or foxes). Since none of my bull snakes continued that defensive behavior, I'd say they learn quickly & retain who they are not at risk from.
We snake-keepers should know better than to take it 'personal', no matter what kind of snakes we're keeping company with. They nearly all learn not to be defensive
when we handle them respectfully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulh

Bullsnake defensive behavior is out towards the extreme end of snake defensive behavior. And reputations develop from people remembering the extremes, not the average. I've wondered why bullsnakes have developed such behavior. From needing to get a buffalo's attention so it won't step on the snake?

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Ok. I see what you are saying but I don't understand how the conclusions became reputation unless its because people hear it, read it, people say it and people believe it without experiencing one properly. When they do encounter one they are handling it too securely out of a preconceived notion that it will be a handful...thereby creating the 'handful'. How else do folks witness this extreme behavior? In my experience with picking up more than 100 documented wild Bullsnakes is that they rarely react with any defensive behavior at all. They will often be flighty (crawling through your hands trying to get back on the ground) but even this is very short lived for most. Therefore, in my experience, it makes it very difficult to grasp the underserved reputation unless the snakes are being molested in some way.

I've read the theories about snakes making a ruckus (vibrating tails/hissing) to alert large mammals to avoid being trampled...I only have one problem with these theories...why don't they put on this show when I approach? Most stay frozen until I'm very close, some allow me to kneel right beside them to get a photo and never move until I pick them up but I have never had one Bullsnake make a peep without physical contact and it's very rare (in my experience) they would do so even during initial contact.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative about this...just sharing my observations.

Wild Bulls pics:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlimR3gRzgwNe7q4N
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmSRWIbCzNV7dxThO
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlnVs_kj19i41r1_0
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlmUG7wsPPujqRXmz
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VmTOxH2KiZ_1e2JHm
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VllIOnYgn2VwcOn1f
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ated30TcAK1VlnJxGhWHMJIHkHe2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DLreptile

I plan on getting something at this summer's reptile expo. But it won't be a Corn. All I know is that I want a colubrid. I was thinking a Gopher or a Bull, but that hissing would be a turn off. I like Milks but which sub-species to get. Maybe even a Garter? King?

So what's the next step up? :confusd: Think, something in the still-a-beginner-stage.. Thx.

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Have you considered a red tail boa? Sure they can get some size to them but takes several years. My experience is that they are mellow even as babies. Sure it is a time investment to bond with them as they grow to full size in 5 to 7 years. By then you should know the animal well enough to deal with the size.