Two heat sources on one thermostat?

Hello all. My UTH (which is for a 10-20 gallon) isn’t enough heat for my 20 long so I bought a CHE. Should I just have the CHE on the thermostat or use a splitter & plug both heat sources into it? I was going to run the UTH without the thermostat & have a few layers of paper towel at the bottom in case the little guy burrows through the repti bark, he’ll have a buffer. Not that it’s that hot. I can touch the bare glass & it won’t burn me. What do you guys think? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8519f822df.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...16af91db3f.jpg


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I was going to run the UTH without the thermostat & have a few layers of paper towel at the bottom in case the little guy burrows through the repti bark, he’ll have a buffer. Not that it’s that hot. I can touch the bare glass & it won’t burn me. What do you guys think?

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That's what everyone that had to take their animal to the vet for severe burn said.

A UTH or any other type of heat source MUST BE CONTROLLED by a thermostat to avoid overheating, burns and fire hazard.

You need a thermostat for each heating device. If you can't afford another thermostat you could put the CHE on a dimmer. You have to adjust it often though.

ALL heating equipment should be regulated by a thermostat.

And no, you can't run 2 off that tstat. There's only 1 probe, so it can only control 1 spot.

So buy a second thermostat, got it. When i was testing the temps with just the UTH it never stopped heating. It was set on 90 & I had the probe resting on top of the substrate (where the snake will obviously be). Is that not where the probe should be?

Ugh I'm going through this issue myself. I have the same UTH and it's not enough heat (I think). I live in California and it's been a bit on the cool side. The UTH has been running a little hot but my snake hasn't buried himself in the bedding. I made a mistake from the beginning and placed the thermostat probe outside of the UTH. So I had it glass, UTH then probe. Well it never gave me a correct reading. So last night I peeled the UTH off the tank and sandwiched the probe between the glass and UTH. I still not getting proper heating. I have the thermostat at the highest but inside the warm hide I'm only getting a temperature of 85 at the highest. I don't know what to do anymore. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for hijacking the post.

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Originally Posted by Red357

Ugh I'm going through this issue myself. I have the same UTH and it's not enough heat (I think). I live in California and it's been a bit on the cool side. The UTH has been running a little hot but my snake hasn't buried himself in the bedding. I made a mistake from the beginning and placed the thermostat probe outside of the UTH. So I had it glass, UTH then probe. Well it never gave me a correct reading. So last night I peeled the UTH off the tank and sandwiched the probe between the glass and UTH. I still not getting proper heating. I have the thermostat at the highest but inside the warm hide I'm only getting a temperature of 85 at the highest. I don't know what to do anymore. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for hijacking the post.

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It's important to understand that your UTH is there solely to provide a hot spot and not for ambient temps. If the temps in the room the enclosure is in doesn't maintain a constant temp in the upper 70s-mid 80s you will need an additional heat source.

I figured that the probe should be on top of the substrate where the snake will be. If it's on the glass under the substrate it will get a higher reading than the snake feels, correct? 1"-2" of bedding must dissipate some of the heat right?

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Originally Posted by mikemooch

So buy a second thermostat, got it. When i was testing the temps with just the UTH it never stopped heating. It was set on 90 & I had the probe resting on top of the substrate (where the snake will obviously be). Is that not where the probe should be?

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Originally Posted by Red357

Ugh I'm going through this issue myself. I have the same UTH and it's not enough heat (I think). I live in California and it's been a bit on the cool side. The UTH has been running a little hot but my snake hasn't buried himself in the bedding. I made a mistake from the beginning and placed the thermostat probe outside of the UTH. So I had it glass, UTH then probe. Well it never gave me a correct reading. So last night I peeled the UTH off the tank and sandwiched the probe between the glass and UTH. I still not getting proper heating. I have the thermostat at the highest but inside the warm hide I'm only getting a temperature of 85 at the highest. I don't know what to do anymore. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for hijacking the post.

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yep, make sure the placement is like how it's outlined in this helpful diagram from Mr Mod Pitontheprowl.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/crayola.jpg


Edit: also looks like that thermostat u have is rated up to 600watts which would be good for running a rack w/ a long strip of heattape and your UTH is rated up to 24watts. u don't have to buy the higher wattage thermostat if they offer a lower watt one for less.

Got it! Thank you so much. I'm going to use that thermostat for my CHE & get a simple "on / off" model for the UTH.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

yep, make sure the placement is like how it's outlined in this helpful diagram from Mr Mod Pitontheprowl.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/crayola.jpg


Edit: also looks like that thermostat u have is rated up to 600watts which would be good for running a rack w/ a long strip of heattape and your UTH is rated up to 24watts. u don't have to buy the higher wattage thermostat if they offer a lower watt one for less.

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I did it exactly like this...and my readings are off. I have my thermostat set high like at 110° to see if inside the hide it can reach at least 90°. But it's not. The highest reading I'm getting is 85

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Originally Posted by Red357

I did it exactly like this...and my readings are off. I have my thermostat set high like at 110° to see if inside the hide it can reach at least 90°. But it's not. The highest reading I'm getting is 85

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Your readings aren't necessarily off. It's probably that the heat isn't penetrating to the surface. If your ambient temps aren't high enough, a UTH may never be able to create a warm enough hot spot because the heat will dissipate too quickly due to the low ambient temperature.

What's the temp in the room were the enclosure is located? I'll bet it's too low to use only a UTH.

Hook up the CHE to the thermostat and use that. You may need to play with the settings a bit, but I guarantee in short order you'll achieve the right temperature gradient.

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Originally Posted by JRLongton

Your readings aren't necessarily off. It's probably that the heat isn't penetrating to the surface. If your ambient temps aren't high enough, a UTH may never be able to create a warm enough hot spot because the heat will dissipate too quickly due to the low ambient temperature.

What's the temp in the room were the enclosure is located? I'll bet it's too low to use only a UTH.

Hook up the CHE to the thermostat and use that. You may need to play with the settings a bit, but I guarantee in short order you'll achieve the right temperature gradient.

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🤔 good question. Honestly I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure it drops to low 70's at night. But during the middle of the night when I had the UTH connected directly to the wall (no thermostat) it was warm inside that hide. I think a little too warm. That's why I did this setting here with the thermostat

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Originally Posted by JRLongton

Your readings aren't necessarily off. It's probably that the heat isn't penetrating to the surface. If your ambient temps aren't high enough, a UTH may never be able to create a warm enough hot spot because the heat will dissipate too quickly due to the low ambient temperature.

What's the temp in the room were the enclosure is located? I'll bet it's too low to use only a UTH.

Hook up the CHE to the thermostat and use that. You may need to play with the settings a bit, but I guarantee in short order you'll achieve the right temperature gradient.

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Sorry forgot to ask. What's a CHE? I don't think I've heard of that before. Unless I've heard it named something else.

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It's important to measure the actual surface of the glass, not the substrate. Snakes can and will burrow and push substrate around and lay directly on the glass.

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Originally Posted by Red357

I did it exactly like this...and my readings are off. I have my thermostat set high like at 110° to see if inside the hide it can reach at least 90°. But it's not. The highest reading I'm getting is 85

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Edit: Craig got to it first.

Also, I think it's an important note that even if the glass doesn't feel that hot too you, it could be hot enough to burn your snake. Since we are warm blooded, things won't feel hot until they are hotter than the extremity in contact with it (let's say hands are usually high 80's low 90's) so a surface adequate for the snake to heat itself with is likely going to feel fairly neutral to your touch.

Now, the danger is that when we think of burns we think of how we might burn, but the process is different partly because we are warm blooded and our tissues react to mild sources of heat differently than our scaly friends. Even if we think we can leave our hand on the surface all day and all night, and it doesn't 'feel very hot' the sensitive skin of your snake (which does not have the somewhat built-in temperature regulation that us warm blooded humans do) could still burn if they fail to move off of the heat source soon enough, and historically they are not very good at telling temperature with their bellies.

Sorry to be long-winded, just thought a detailed explanation might help. I agree with the others that getting an additional thermostat is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Red357

I had the UTH connected directly to the wall (no thermostat) it was warm inside that hide. I think a little too warm.

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Yeah, don't do that. Never run any heat source without a thermostat.

To answer your other question, a CHE is a Ceramic Heat Emitter. Very useful and commonly used method to warm a reptile enclosure. If you can't keep the temps right with a UTH, then get a CHE, and use it with the thermostat. Placement of the temp probe will be different with a CHE. I'll let others chime in on that as I've never used a CHE before, RHP all the way for me!

If you ask questions and take the advice you get here seriously, you'll do fine. This community wants you to be successful and to have a healthy and long-lived snake.

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Originally Posted by -ryan-

Edit: Craig got to it first.

Also, I think it's an important note that even if the glass doesn't feel that hot too you, it could be hot enough to burn your snake. Since we are warm blooded, things won't feel hot until they are hotter than the extremity in contact with it (let's say hands are usually high 80's low 90's) so a surface adequate for the snake to heat itself with is likely going to feel fairly neutral to your touch.

Now, the danger is that when we think of burns we think of how we might burn, but the process is different partly because we are warm blooded and our tissues react to mild sources of heat differently than our scaly friends. Even if we think we can leave our hand on the surface all day and all night, and it doesn't 'feel very hot' the sensitive skin of your snake (which does not have the somewhat built-in temperature regulation that us warm blooded humans do) could still burn if they fail to move off of the heat source soon enough, and historically they are not very good at telling temperature with their bellies.

Sorry to be long-winded, just thought a detailed explanation might help. I agree with the others that getting an additional thermostat is the way to go.

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Great point. I didn't think about it like that.

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Originally Posted by JRLongton

Yeah, don't do that. Never run any heat source without a thermostat.

To answer your other question, a CHE is a Ceramic Heat Emitter. Very useful and commonly used method to warm a reptile enclosure. If you can't keep the temps right with a UTH, then get a CHE, and use it with the thermostat. Placement of the temp probe will be different with a CHE. I'll let others chime in on that as I've never used a CHE before, RHP all the way for me!

If you ask questions and take the advice you get here seriously, you'll do fine. This community wants you to be successful and to have a healthy and long-lived snake.

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Is a CHE a light bulb?

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Originally Posted by Red357

Is a CHE a light bulb?

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No, but it works the same, without shining any light. It screws in like a bulb, but just throws heat without any light

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Originally Posted by Red357

Is a CHE a light bulb?

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It's a type of bulb that doesn't produce light. Google ceramic heat emitter to see what it looks like.

This temperature thing is stressing me out a bit. So...basically the best solution is to continue to run that UTH with the thermostat (even though I'm only getting a reading in the warm hide area of 85°)? Then place a CHE on top and let that run to get ambient temperature in the tank of about 80? Or is 90 like the snake requires?

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Imo CHE for a 20 gallon long is an overkill. Those things get so hot even with a t-stat. Can you move the enclosure to a 77-80F room temp in the house? That could easily solve that problem. Make sure that the CHE bulb goes to a fixture just for such bulbs.

Your warm spot should be about 88F and no higher than 90F which would be created by your UTH.

Both needs to be on t-stats. The t-stat for the CHE should be one that operates as a dimmer. Not all t-stats are created equally. Most are sold as pulse or on/off which works great with UTH. If you can afford it, I would invest in a Herpstat 2 which will help you control temps for the UTH and CHE separately and it comes with a function choice: dimming or pulse.

Going to second Cheesenugget's suggestion to invest in the Herpstat 2 when you are able. It appears as though you may have just purchased the exo terra, but I am using a herpstat 4 right now and can tell you that I would spend the money again in a heartbeat it has a ton of features, but most importantly it has redundant safety relays that you just won't find on a model like the exo terra. Thermostats have a tendancy to fail in the 'on' position which in some circumstances can overheat an enclosure or rack enough to kill the occupants (or worse, cause a fire safety hazard, depending on the heat source being used). Herpstats, from what I could tell, have the most sophisticated safety relays in the industry to ensure that if they fail, they fail off, not on. Much safer for you and your reptiles.

The Herpstat two is two thermostats in one, so you can set two temperatures for two heaters (two user replaceable probes as well). That makes the price, perhaps, a little easier to stomach because you would only need to purchase one tool to do both jobs.

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

Imo CHE for a 20 gallon long is an overkill. Those things get so hot even with a t-stat. Can you move the enclosure to a 77-80F room temp in the house? That could easily solve that problem. Make sure that the CHE bulb goes to a fixture just for such bulbs.

Your warm spot should be about 88F and no higher than 90F which would be created by your UTH.

Both needs to be on t-stats. The t-stat for the CHE should be one that operates as a dimmer. Not all t-stats are created equally. Most are sold as pulse or on/off which works great with UTH. If you can afford it, I would invest in a Herpstat 2 which will help you control temps for the UTH and CHE separately and it comes with a function choice: dimming or pulse.

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This thermo actually works by dimming or pulse. Not on / off. I’ll see how it works. If it sucks I’ll definitely look into the herpstat. Thanks!


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I know what the ambient temps should be on both sides. But what should the UTH temp be set to?


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Originally Posted by mikemooch

I know what the ambient temps should be on both sides. But what should the UTH temp be set to?


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You'll have to tinker with it a bit and figure it out through trial and error. There are too many variables for there to be one cookie cutter answer.
For for example, I have 4 set at different temps from 92-96 to achieve my desired hot spots.

I would probably start at 92 and go from there. Just check the surface temp periodically and you'll have it dialed in in no time. :gj:

I guess what I’m asking is, what is safe for the snake? Let’s say he burrows through the bedding & he’s on bare glass. What is warm enough but won’t burn him?


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Originally Posted by mikemooch

I guess what I’m asking is, what is safe for the snake? Let’s say he burrows through the bedding & he’s on bare glass. What is warm enough but won’t burn him?


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That's why it's important to measure the ACTUAL SURFACE TEMP. Snakes burrow and push substrate around and lay directly on the surface.
Your hot spot surface temp should be 89-90.

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Originally Posted by mikemooch

This thermo actually works by dimming or pulse. Not on / off. I’ll see how it works. If it sucks I’ll definitely look into the herpstat. Thanks!


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I actually bought two of those 600w thermostats about a month ago and like them a lot for the price. Did you set both day and night temperatures on the thermostat? I'm betting you only set one and that's why you're getting low temps.

Ambient temp around the cage should be 80ish. The hot spot that you get from the uth should be 88-90f. You need to measure the surface of the glass to get that temp, not the substrate.

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Originally Posted by SquirmyPug

I actually bought two of those 600w thermostats about a month ago and like them a lot for the price. Did you set both day and night temperatures on the thermostat? I'm betting you only set one and that's why you're getting low temps.

Ambient temp around the cage should be 80ish. The hot spot that you get from the uth should be 88-90f. You need to measure the surface of the glass to get that temp, not the substrate.

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I actually set both. For the first time in my life I actually read instructions, only bc I couldn’t figure out how to toggle between the two. Lol.


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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

That's why it's important to measure the ACTUAL SURFACE TEMP. Snakes burrow and push substrate around and lay directly on the surface.
Your hot spot surface temp should be 89-90.

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Gotcha. Glad I bought a temp gun. It’s nice being able to get temps everywhere in the enclosure.


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Originally Posted by mikemooch

I actually set both. For the first time in my life I actually read instructions, only bc I couldn’t figure out how to toggle between the two. Lol.


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Have you checked to make sure it's still set correctly for both day and night? Power outage or anything lately that could have caused a problem?

Have you plugged the uth and che in directly to the wall to find out if they get hotter without a thermostat? If they get hotter without it then you know the problem is the thermostat.

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Originally Posted by mikemooch

Gotcha. Glad I bought a temp gun. It’s nice being able to get temps everywhere in the enclosure.


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Yup, very helpful tool. It can be used to check temps of frozen/thawed prey when feeding too. Once you've done it enough you just kinda know, but it helps if you're just learning.