Pied Burms....in the states? Mother of God......

So as I log on to check Bob Clark's Facebook page for any cool auctions here I happened to notice he has a female pied Burm who produced a nice clutch about a week ago......and I almost laid an egg myself.

I do not know the story as to how he obtained a Pied, but as to my knowledge they were not a morph every available in the US in any capacity. I heard about them maybe five years ago but there was only one dude in the Philippines to have owned them. Ever since the trash piece of legislation known as the Lacey act went into affect, import on Burms (and therefore any new morphs) have been banned......unlike Retics where new morphs may still be imported.

The Lacey act left keepers with the available options and any combination the following list can produce (which were the ones IN the US when the ban went into effect:

Albino
Granite
Green
Hypo
Caramel (very rare)
Labyrinth (very rare)

Well.....assuming this clutch hatches out well, we can add another morph to that list! WAY TO GO Bob. Gonna have to get the rest of the story on this.....of course I assume a pied hatchling will run as much as new car but I can wait for a price drop.

https://i.paste.pics/d6b295771c299dd...2098527dc2.png

That’s really cool, thanks for sharing bro.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

That’s really cool, thanks for sharing bro.

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No prob!.....just imagine how a granite albino pied would look. :O

Man, I can't even find the words for how excited I am. I've always wanted a pied burm. I can't wait to see that clutch hatch out.

Wow there stunning

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Bob has had the project going for a while now I hear. As you know he had them at his UK facility and supposedly had a couple here as well but kept it hush hush... Im not a fan at all of the pied unless its a pied Albino.
Over the last 30 years I’ve watched temperaments change with all these morphs. Some disagree with me but from having my Burms from Bob that were born late 80’s to early 90’s I can say they are different. Not only did I interact with my own but several service men had them at our NY Bases so Ive had experience with several. The gene tests that I’ve heard about on captive bred Burms show Indian in them even though its as low as 1%. This is where I believe the Blushing comes from. 1% or not at this point the Temperament has changed from what I first had and as I know some people keep Hots and other snakes that just do not tolerate handling well I do not enjoy Giants that are more prone to defensive behavior.
This has nothing to do with Pied themselves but I just dont get excited seeing new morphs, Ive noticed to many changes in them besides Color Pattern over the years.


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You're still dealing with the same bloodlines however (albino is the same as it was in 81 when it was brought in by Crutchfield-there haven't been any other strains of albinism in the US at least) so I don't know how there would be some drastic change in temperament amongst the same imported lines in the last 30 years. Perhaps you had a clutch or two in your area that was produced from some aggressive animals or something of that nature. I'm sure there were angry animals in the 70's and 80's as well. It's like the argument in Ball Pythons that darker morphs produce in general, more aggressive animals. I just don't buy it. There's been nothing that links aggression to pattern mutation in any species of snake for that matter....health/nuero issues yes, but not aggression.

I'm sure your experience is real but I don't know how you can't be excited over adding new genetics to the pool when there's relatively few choices to begin with. You can't own a handful of Burms and then decide the entire attitude of the species changed in 30 years because you had a few bad eggs though.

If you ask a few breeders if the albino shows a better temperament vs hypo vs green (or whatever) I would doubt if they implied there is.

wow that's a beautiful snake momma! i like how she almost looks paradox instead of Pied.

also i clicked on that image on Bob's FB page myself. there's actually Wilbanks Captive Bred Reptiles aka Mike Wilbanks name in that upper right corner of the pix. i assume he's an investor and/or helped get that Burm stateside?

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Originally Posted by KevinK

No prob!.....just imagine how a granite albino pied would look. :O

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Granite Albino Pied Hypo!

:O

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Originally Posted by Ax01

also i clicked on that image on Bob's FB page myself. there's actually Wilbanks Captive Bred Reptiles aka Mike Wilbanks name in that upper right corner of the pix. i assume he's an investor and/or helped get that Burm stateside?

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Wilbanks is where Clark got his from.
As far as them being here before the ban... I don't know.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Wilbanks is where Clark got his from.
As far as them being here before the ban... I don't know.

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If he got it into the country post-Lacey, he's either a master of paperwork or knows a hell of an attorney as I was under the assumption that it couldn't be done. There are no loopholes that I know of....and trust me, I researched it as there's a sweet albino lab in Canada right now that I can't touch for this reason lol.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

Granite Albino Pied Hypo!

:O

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Pearl Granite Pied ;)

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Originally Posted by KevinK

You're still dealing with the same bloodlines however (albino is the same as it was in 81 when it was brought in by Crutchfield-there haven't been any other strains of albinism in the US at least) so I don't know how there would be some drastic change in temperament amongst the same imported lines in the last 30 years. Perhaps you had a clutch or two in your area that was produced from some aggressive animals or something of that nature. I'm sure there were angry animals in the 70's and 80's as well. It's like the argument in Ball Pythons that darker morphs produce in general, more aggressive animals. I just don't buy it. There's been nothing that links aggression to pattern mutation in any species of snake for that matter....health/nuero issues yes, but not aggression.

I'm sure your experience is real but I don't know how you can't be excited over adding new genetics to the pool when there's relatively few choices to begin with. You can't own a handful of Burms and then decide the entire attitude of the species changed in 30 years because you had a few bad eggs though.

If you ask a few breeders if the albino shows a better temperament vs hypo vs green (or whatever) I would doubt if they implied there is.

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Funny you mentioned Albino as thats what I was talking about. It’s the Only morph I haven’t met or heard of being very defensive which is why Im wondering about these new morphs. Ive had nothing but great interaction with Albinos as well as the guys I know with them. All I had available to me were Normals and Albino’s in 1990/93. Since then, captive bred Burm morphs have tested positive for Indian gene, there is no doubt there. That is the Blushing you now see on heads. So with this i wonder if we see the Indian temperament? Idk but I wonder.
As far as Breeders, I asked several when I was buying last year and was in fact told about Temperaments to Morph as well as the Hardiness of them. Seems there are some morphs that are coming down with RI more frequently. Albino is said to be one of the Hardiest. Of course there are exceptions no matter what.
I went through around 50 breeders during my search and got similar info last spring... the problem with that is with such a small community people start repeating what they hear so thats not a good source of first hand experience.



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So if Albino is the hardiest and the most well behaved.....why'd you get a hypo lol?

My breeder (Serpentopia Exotics, IL) was of the opinion that albinos had the most feeding problems.

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Originally Posted by KevinK

So if Albino is the hardiest and the most well behaved.....why'd you get a hypo lol?

My breeder (Serpentopia Exotics, IL) was of the opinion that albinos had the most feeding problems.

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My Albinos have all been very good feeders - they all do seem to have slightly impaired vision issues but that apparently goes for all Albinos ( critters and humans alike )


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Mine stonewalled me for four months as a hatchling, outright refusing food altogether

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Originally Posted by KevinK

So if Albino is the hardiest and the most well behaved.....why'd you get a hypo lol?

My breeder (Serpentopia Exotics, IL) was of the opinion that albinos had the most feeding problems.

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Thats the first Ive heard anyone say feed issues are associated with albinos. Like all animals there are exceptions and even whole clutches/litters that have problems... but that is not a common problem I’ve ever heard of in 26 years keeping Burms.
As far as me not getting another Albino, My wife wanted something different than the other two Burms.
You want a defensive Burm you need to stay on guard around check out the majority of Carmels. I haven’t met one that didn’t want to take a strike at you even after being worked with for over a year. Thats not to say they dont exist or that holding them just so wont chill them out after a few min but you understand what Im saying hahahaa


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