Full Grown Ball Python in 20 gallon?

Hello. I’m planning on getting a ball python and I wanted to keep him in a tub all his life but my dad wants me to move it to a tank at some point because that’s what a lady at his work who has had snakes a long time suggested. He said we could get a 20 gallon and that a 40 gallon (which is what I would want) is too big. What is your take on this? Any suggestions on how to convince him to stay with a tub or move to 40 gallon? The 20 gallon just seems so small.

I’m a college student currently taking the semester off for medical reasons and am living with my dad this semester (he is paying for the ball python).

Your gonna get lots of opinions, but I’ll go first. If it’s a male, a twenty gallon should be fine for its entire life. But if it’s a female, definitely go with the forty. This is going off what some of the top breeders use to recommend back in the day, and tanks are kinda old school. Best of luck, either way. If you look in my gallery, you can see my current set up. Peace.

I’d agree that a 20L should be fine for a male and a 40 for a female. Many people keep them in tubs their whole lives, and that is fine, too. I personally prefer the commercially produced plastic or pvc cages due to the ease of heating them and better humidity retention. All three work, you just have to tweak each type of enclosure to maintain the correct temps and humidity.

At a minimum the snake should be able to stretch out its body fully in the enclosure so I would use that as a baseline for determining what size is appropriate once the BP is full grown.

I would personally favor 40 gal. size for a tank. As Luvyna said, a snake should be able to stretch out, & also, it's very challenging to offer temperature variation
in a small cage...you need some distance between warmest & cooler sides. While many don't favor glass tanks, I do...but that doesn't mean you don't need any
modifications for privacy, heat & humidity retention to successfully keep a ball python healthy. When you talk about a 20 gal. tank, I assume you mean a 20 long? That's better than a standard 20 gal. -it's not as tall, but longer by 6".

Are you getting a male BP? That would be better, they stay smaller. Another thing...if you're getting a young BP, it will take quite a while before it needs a
bigger tank/enclosure, & by then you'll probably not still be living with your Dad...so maybe think of the 20 gal. tank as temporary while your BP grows up?
When the 20 starts getting too small, you can trade up for a larger one.

Personally I would only put a very small male in a 20 gallon long. If it's not a long then I wouldn't keep one in it. Tell him the temperature and humidity requirements for a ball python. If the temps and humidity are not met, then ball pythons can go off feed for weeks, months, and there's even been cases of years! This can put a lot of stress on you and the snake, and you might end up with a lot of vet bills to pay if he starts loosing a lot of weight and you have to check on him at the vet during his fasting.

Tanks can be used only if you are willing to put in the work and time to maintain the humidity and temps. Depending on how much humidity you generally get where you live, you will more than likely have to cover the screen of the tank with layers of foil, plexiglass (which can be pricey), or a towel you have to dampen every time it dries out, you will have to mist multiple times a day, get a substrate that holds humidity (which you will also have to dampen every time it dries out), you may not be able to use an overhead heat source, and you might want to get a fogger/mister on a timer, a bigger water bowl, etc. Then for the temperature, you may need to add insulation to the outside and or multiple heat sources (which means multiple thermostats and can get very expensive). A lot of time and work compared to a tub which tends to keep the temperature and humidity in without many adjustments. Even after all of this, be aware that ball pythons are not very good display animals and you probably won't see it much since they hide all day, which kind of defeats the purpose of working so hard with a tank.

I used to use a tank, it's definitely possible to keep a snake in one, but a lot of work. I recently switched to a tub and won't ever go back. I hardly need to do any maintenance apart from changing the water and spot cleaning. Not to mention a tub is so much cheaper than a tank, doesn't take up as much space, and is much lighter.

Maybe think about investing in or saving up for a custom enclosure like from animal plastics. They have the visibility of a tank while keeping the temp and humidity within range. Most would agree they are the best enclosure for a snake.

So yes, you can use a tank. I don't bash on those who do, as long as they can, again, put in the extra time and work to provide adequate husbandry and care. If you want to use a tank, go ahead, but what concerns me is your fathers attitude towards this all? If he hasn't done the research, he probably doesn't know what's best for the snake. Make sure if you're dedicating the next 30+ years to this snake that you won't compromise its husbandry and care just because someone else says so. If your father is going to stop you from taking care of the snake properly because he decides that's not how you take care of one (despite numerous of experienced breeders and keepers saying otherwise) then perhaps wait until you can pay for the snake yourself. What happens if he decides the snake should eat prey smaller than it's supposed to? Or says he heard the snake doesn't need hides? Or thinks it's ridiculous to spend money on a thermostat?

I'm not trying to be hostile or say you outright shouldn't get a ball python.. but just make sure to do your research and be careful.

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

... but what concerns me is your fathers attitude towards this all? If he hasn't done the research, he probably doesn't know what's best for the snake. Make sure if you're dedicating the next 30+ years to this snake that you won't compromise its husbandry and care just because someone else says so. If your father is going to stop you from taking care of the snake properly because he decides that's not how you take care of one (despite numerous of experienced breeders and keepers saying otherwise) then perhaps wait until you can pay for the snake yourself. What happens if he decides the snake should eat prey smaller than it's supposed to? Or says he heard the snake doesn't need hides? Or thinks it's ridiculous to spend money on a thermostat? ....

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Yes, this ^ ^ ^ too! :yes: Might truly be better (for the snake) to wait if you don't see "eye to eye".

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Originally Posted by vrp98

Hello. I’m planning on getting a ball python and I wanted to keep him in a tub all his life but my dad wants me to move it to a tank at some point because that’s what a lady at his work who has had snakes a long time suggested. He said we could get a 20 gallon and that a 40 gallon (which is what I would want) is too big. What is your take on this? Any suggestions on how to convince him to stay with a tub or move to 40 gallon? The 20 gallon just seems so small.

I’m a college student currently taking the semester off for medical reasons and am living with my dad this semester (he is paying for the ball python).

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20 gal is WAY too small. Go with a 40 gal and get a male as they stay smaller. Imo a 40 gal tank isn’t big. I live in a tiny little apartment as I’m currently in grad school. I have 7 reptiles with my largest enclosure being 4’x2’x2’ and it’s not too big. It may help to measure everything out and show your father where it will go and the exact dimensions. Also, if you get a nice display enclosure he may be more inclined to go for it.


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I agree with you "55fingers"... Tubs are definitely ok to use for ball pythons especially if in a rack set up. What really pushes my buttons are those people who think all snakes need to be housed in tanks. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but NOT all snakes need to be kept in tanks and BP's are one of those snakes...They needs ample amounts of humidity/heat and tanks do not hold in the appropriate amounts when it comes to a BP.
Also a male ball python does not require alot of space when it comes to his enclosure. A male can thrive living in a 28-32 quart tub with holes for air circulation but a female BP would require a little larger as they get bit more girthier in size. BP's also need a hide to use and a water dish and that is about it.... And when it comes to hides, you be the judge on what size is right for your BP. I say this because my adult male has a hide which he will squeeze himself into when he wants to. You would think he would be uncomfortable but when I tried using larger hides for him he will not go into them. So I stick to the hide he likes. In a nutshell, tanks do look nice and you can really make them look very awesome inside, but if I were a BP I would just want a warm dark tight hide to shield away my predators and humidity to help me have a successful shed. Oh and of course, dont forget to drop in the appropriate size rat and I am good to go!! :relax:

My male BP is in a 40 breeder. I can't imagine him being in a 20 gallon. He was in a 20 gallon when he was a 160 gram youngster til 500 grams. At that point he outgrew the 20 gallon.

Should of clarified 20 long for a male in my first post. To each his own. FYI In Kevin’s (Of NERD) books, he states some pretty similar stuff. Like I said old school. I’m pretty sure your top breeders aren’t excactly giving them much more floor space. Also pretty sure most people on here with larger (retics) don’t have tanks long enough for the snakes to stretch out in fully.

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Originally Posted by Luvyna

At a minimum the snake should be able to stretch out its body fully in the enclosure so I would use that as a baseline for determining what size is appropriate once the BP is full grown.

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Maybe, but what about people with giant constrictors? And breeders?

20L is to small. I moved Odyn into his 40. 20 l and the hides (bean farm) were only 2 in from the front of the glass, and with all the plants and water dish it was a nightmare. Everything was cramped including him.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

Maybe, but what about people with giant constrictors? And breeders?

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As far as being able to stretch out...I know that when I had a special permit (re some hots) from CA Fish & Game, their stipulations included a formula (the details I
cannot recall exactly now but it's probably quite searchable) that had to do with the length & width of the enclosure compared to the length of the occupant. It wasn't
strictly that the length equaled the length of the snake, but it was far larger than what many if not most breeders provide: I thought it was quite fair, and they were
pleased with the housing that I provided (very large glass tanks with secure tops I made which couldn't be pushed off) per the required inspection. I'm pretty sure that
at least some other states have similar regulations, fyi. It's not something they go looking for, but if you're in violation of another thing, it's the sort of thing that adds to
whatever you're in trouble for. Happy to say F & G was always very nice to me, but that's what happens when you reach out to them first...it's different if they have to
respond to a complaint about what you're doing.

Thank you!

You are definitely right. I see what you are saying. I definitely will have a serious talk with him about it. I mean, I have been researching ball pythons for months. Him? A week or two. Thank you for the advice!

I don't think I will have to upgrade tubs for awhile once I get my ball python. I have a 25 qt sterilite tub. That will give me time to convince my dad about tubs. To clarify, my tub has lots of "decorations" in it. Two hides, water bowl, leaves, branch, wooden log, corkscrew wood. I have the majority of my supplies already. Just need cleaner (any suggestions? I was looking at F10SC), herpstat 1, a scale, substrate, and of course the ball python.

Another thing that kinda makes me upset - my dad wants me to get a bp from pet store because it's "cheaper." No way am I letting that happen. I look at quality of life, and I can tell you those pet store animals weren't bred from that.

I want to know more about snake lady at work and what spell she has over Dad? Tell Dad you're an adult and can determine what is best for your snek. You'll ask him if you need something. But someone putting up the money to care for a snake should do so then butt out. Just my $.02.

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Originally Posted by vrp98

Another thing that kinda makes me upset - my dad wants me to get a bp from pet store because it's "cheaper." No way am I letting that happen. I look at quality of life, and I can tell you those pet store animals weren't bred from that.

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I definetly don't recommend getting one from the pet store. They often have stuck shed, R.I, mites, or won't eat. They aren't kept in ideal enclosures so they get stressed and go off feed and I've heard a lot of pet stores tend to just force/assist feed instead of trying to actually fix the problem. Much better to get a quality animal from a reputable breeder. Reptile expos are nice cause you can hold the snake and ask a lot of questions about the animal and how the breeder keeps their snakes. But some people rather order from morph market etc. Think you're gonna go for a morph or a normal?

When I was 12, I bought a hamster from a pet store. He lived for three months. Ever since then, I promised myself I would never buy an animal from a pet store. I learned my lesson. I completely agree with what you are saying. Plus, according to the employees, the ball pythons there are really pissy.

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Also, I really want a pastel ball python.

Honestly, she had a ball python at her work and it was in a tank with only one hide and a water bowl. Concerning. She’s had some of her animals removed though because her boss concluded there was no need to have animals in there that aren’t native to our state.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5fb89b533a.jpg
Here’s a visual example of my adult male in a 40 gal. He’s actually on the smaller end too and the 40 still seems a little small. Although he doesn’t do much during the day and I frequently take him out to explore. He seems perfectly content but anything smaller would be detrimental imo. Hope this helps! A picture can speak a thousand words:)


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Originally Posted by MarkL1561

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...5fb89b533a.jpg
Here’s a visual example of my adult male in a 40 gal. He’s actually on the smaller end too and the 40 still seems a little small. Although he doesn’t do much during the day and I frequently take him out to explore. He seems perfectly content but anything smaller would be detrimental imo. Hope this helps! A picture can speak a thousand words:)

I’m just curious is that the same floor space as a forty breeder. I believe a 20 long and 40 breeder are the tanks I meant to reference, and I believe others were also referring to. Sorry to cause confusion. But thank you for sharing, beautiful set up.


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I messed up the quotes on my last post sorry.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

I messed up the quotes on my last post sorry.

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It’s a 40 gal exo terra, so 36”x18”x18”. I’m pretty sure it’s the same floor space as a “breeder”.


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It's funny that you sent that. It's the exact same tank I had wanted before. Is it possible you could take a full picture of entire tank?

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

I definetly don't recommend getting one from the pet store. They often have stuck shed, R.I, mites, or won't eat. They aren't kept in ideal enclosures so they get stressed and go off feed and I've heard a lot of pet stores tend to just force/assist feed instead of trying to actually fix the problem. Much better to get a quality animal from a reputable breeder. Reptile expos are nice cause you can hold the snake and ask a lot of questions about the animal and how the breeder keeps their snakes. But some people rather order from morph market etc. Think you're gonna go for a morph or a normal?

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We don't force/assist feed. It's against policy.

Please...if you dont work in a store keep it to yourself. My snakes eat, are healthy, and have a good enclosure because I make it proper for them.

Keep in in mind there are thousands of pet stores and thousands of breeders. There are bad eggs in both.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

We don't force/assist feed. It's against policy.

Please...if you dont work in a store keep it to yourself. My snakes eat, are healthy, and have a good enclosure because I make it proper for them.

Keep in in mind there are thousands of pet stores and thousands of breeders. There are bad eggs in both.

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Agree! Don't judge all pet stores by a few...and for that matter, check out the BOI (Board of Inquiry) on Fauna for some of the breeders out there.

If you want specifically not to get a ball from a pet store, I'm pretty sure a price comparison should be able to convince your dad. I've heard of people picking up normal ball pythons for like $20. I paid twice that and I bought mine during a sale with an employee discount. (But I adore her so I don't mind)
Just saying, petstores won't always be cheaper ;)

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

We don't force/assist feed. It's against policy.

Please...if you dont work in a store keep it to yourself. My snakes eat, are healthy, and have a good enclosure because I make it proper for them.

Keep in in mind there are thousands of pet stores and thousands of breeders. There are bad eggs in both.

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Sorry! I forgot to add that it doesn't apply to all pet stores. Some take really good care of their snakes. Just I've heard that some big box stores like Petco, Petsmart, Pet Land etc have protocols for snake care that you can't change even if you work there and see it's wrong. I've heard stories of snakes that could eat again if the husbandry was adjusted, but are assist fed because they can't break enclosure protocol. I've heard a lot of cases like this but I guess I can't confirm so I could be wrong.

Not all pet stores of course, it always depends on location. Some pet stores I've been to have great looking reptiles with nice and clean enclosures. Other pet stores, I have definetly seen some poor snakes with stuck shed, species being cohabbed that shouldn't be, dirty tanks etc. As I said it always depends on location.

Just in my experience I personally wouldn't recommend a BP from a big box pet store to a new keeper unless I knew for certain that it was eating well and had no problems. A high-quality, good eater is less likely to stress a new keeper out, and at a pet store you might not be able to find out the animal's history, genetics, and habits.


But you're right, I shouldn't make complete generalisations. Not all pet stores are bad, not all breeders are good. Just make sure wherever you get your snake from that it's healthy and eating, especially if you're a new keeper.

I am in no way an expert but in my research I read that as long as the snake can stretch long ways and one side width way, it'll be fine. That's roughly approx...42 inches.

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Originally Posted by vrp98

When I was 12, I bought a hamster from a pet store. He lived for three months. Ever since then, I promised myself I would never buy an animal from a pet store. I learned my lesson. I completely agree with what you are saying. Plus, according to the employees, the ball pythons there are really pissy.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I really want a pastel ball python.

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Not all pet stores are bad. I bought my hamster from Petsupermarket. He was about 6 weeks old when I got him. He lived to almost his 2nd birthday, an average lifespan of a golden hammie. What most people do with their hamsters (Not saying you did) is they either overfed/free feed those junk food that comes with seeds and crap, provide no exercise wheel or any form of exercise, stress and dirty cage (contributing factors to "wet tail" which can kill them without vet care) or nothing to chew on so that they can keep their scissors short or else it will grow to the extent it can't eat and starve.

Secondly, you may get lucky like I did and bring home a wonderful snake from a terrible pet store. Just make sure you check its health completely, including rubbing against the snake to feel for any bumps, check for mites on your hands as well as on the snake's eyes and its body and any sound it is making while breathing or mucous from anywhere. If you bring home mites by accident, it is annoying but fixable. Good thing is that this will be your first snake so you only have one to worry about.

Lastly, though they are few and far in between, there are good pet stores out there. It is good to start checking out different pet stores and find one you can trust, even if you don't buy your snake from there, in case you need advice, help with equipment or pick up a feeder. A good pet store will get to know you as well and some may even special order certain things for you (ie enclosures) whereas most online retailers won't do that.

Ps the 20 gallon is too long. My adult male bp is in a 56 qt tub and I want to give him more space in the future. It is awfully crowded after you out in the hides and water bowl.

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

Not all pet stores are bad. I bought my hamster from Petsupermarket. He was about 6 weeks old when I got him. He lived to almost his 2nd birthday, an average lifespan of a golden hammie. What most people do with their hamsters (Not saying you did) is they either overfed/free feed those junk food that comes with seeds and crap, provide no exercise wheel or any form of exercise, stress and dirty cage (contributing factors to "wet tail" which can kill them without vet care) or nothing to chew on so that they can keep their scissors short or else it will grow to the extent it can't eat and starve.

Secondly, you may get lucky like I did and bring home a wonderful snake from a terrible pet store. Just make sure you check its health completely, including rubbing against the snake to feel for any bumps, check for mites on your hands as well as on the snake's eyes and its body and any sound it is making while breathing or mucous from anywhere. If you bring home mites by accident, it is annoying but fixable. Good thing is that this will be your first snake so you only have one to worry about.

Lastly, though they are few and far in between, there are good pet stores out there. It is good to start checking out different pet stores and find one you can trust, even if you don't buy your snake from there, in case you need advice, help with equipment or pick up a feeder. A good pet store will get to know you as well and some may even special order certain things for you (ie enclosures) whereas most online retailers won't do that.

Ps the 20 gallon is too long. My adult male bp is in a 56 qt tub and I want to give him more space in the future. It is awfully crowded after you out in the hides and water bowl.

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Fix: 20 gallon is too short, not long.

As mentioned by everyone above, there isn't really a wrong enclosure as long as all the needs of the animal are met. Most BP breeders I know or have worked with will keep hatchlings in a 6 qt shoebox tub as it keeps them feeling secure and happy. On the other end of the spectrum I've seen people with newly purchased hatchlings that have gone into 20 longs or 32 quart tubs and they did fine as well.

That being said, I happen to have 2 Petsmart ball pythons in my collection, one is a lesser/butter and one is a normal, and they are both currently under 200 grams. Also both of them happen to be my angriest hissy pissy snakes that I have, as opposed to my super pastel female Cannoli who came from a breeder that's sweet as can be, if not a little shy at times. But all 3 are good eaters (now...the lesser needed live for a couple weeks before switching to F/T) and I'm sure the Petsmart snakes will calm down somewhat over time.

If I were in your shoes I would explain that at almost any reptile show you will find normal BP's for $20-40 and you'd have tons of other morphs to choose from. A pet store will be limited and if it's a big chain store it will be much more expensive. For simple proof just go to MorphMarket and search male BP's and sort by price, I just did and found plenty of normals, hets and base co-dom morphs for under $60-75. At my local Petsmart/Petco normals are $60 and "Fancy" BP's (which most of the time are pastels or maybe another basic co-dom morph) are $120!

So right there he'll see that a good breeder is usually the more affordable option, especially considering that a good quality breeder's animal will be much less likely to have problems eating, adjusting, or with their health immediately after purchase. Plus most chain pet stores that I've been to can't tell you the gender of the animal, so you may end up with a female, who will definitely outgrow a 20 long.

At the end of the day this is your animal, that you will be in charge of caring for, for many years to come, long after your father has any interest in how it's being kept. If he's not willing to allow you to care for your animal in a way that is conducive to it's long term health or even in the way you best see fit to maintain their needs, maybe allowing him to have any influence, up to and including any monetary input, is not in your or the animals best interest.



TL;DR: I've had BP's from both pet stores and breeders, I'd go breeder everytime. Also if your dad won't budge on enclosures because he's putting money in, don't take his money and do it your own way, especially if it's better for the animal.

Also I’d look around at breeders on morph market. I worked at a chain pet store during my undergrad and didn’t like how they care for the animals. The suppliers they get animals from essentially farm them like a puppy mill. As far as online purchases, I’ve had good experiences with Snakes at Sunset and Perfect Predators. There are tons of breeders out there though and that way you get to pick exactly what you want. Also shipping isn’t bad it’s usually around $30 for overnight. As far as the enclosure, it’s easier imo to get everything up front. Depending on where you live you could probably find some enclosures on Craig’s list but run the risk of mites. I’d probably get the enclosure and supplies at a pet store and the snake from a breeder. Although at the end of the day it doesn’t matter what any of our opinions are. Do whatever you want:)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...39da94cdf3.jpg
Here’s a picture of the entire tank like you wanted. I have a che but rarely ever use it because I keep my place pretty warm. I also don’t really use that thermometer anymore either lol I have a temp gun that works better. Those are bulbs on the side not garbage [emoji28]


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I'd do a PVC enclosure. Reptile Basics has a great one that is 2x3x1, big enough for almost any male BP. It isn't expensive and is easy to fit into your life.

One of the things that I dislike about tanks is that they require a dedicated space. In a part of you house there is a tank sized footprint. That can be a hard sacrifice if you don't have a big space.

But a PVC, that can fit on a shelf, and the other shelves can be used for things (like maybe other snakes!). Hell you can even stack things on top of the PVC itself. My wife does this all the time and I HATE it, but it is an option.

I've been looking at morph market and I'm interested in Breeders Circle. I've heard good things about them and they have Pastels for $50!

Just gonna chime in here for a moment because of the 20gal for males 40gal for females that popped up a few times.
As the owner of a 2400 gram male, please don't just assume they will stay smaller. Obviously over time you may need to upgrade regardless of what 'average' size is. Keeping my male in a 20 gallon tank is comical XD

Good news everyone! My dad said I can use tubs for my ball python and that it's up to me. I'm also slowly convincing him on getting him from a breeder. If you guys want, once I get him, I can post a picture! I am very excited and have wanted a ball python for months. Thank you guys so much for your help!