SD Retic

Hi, I was wondering if dwarf retics usually like sit on your lap and will sit with you or are they constantly on the move. My boa would sit for a long time with me. I know they won’t be like a boa but do they never sit still?


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Retics are pretty much going to be on the move. I would not consider them a 'lap snake' like a boa. Usually when I have a retic out, they want to move around and check stuff out and go exploring. I've had some of my boas fall alseep while being held before. Different for sure!

No experience with Dwarf or super dwarf but my 2 mainlands don't stop for anything. They do seem to slow down a little after 5-10 minutes. They are not a relaxing snake to work with they sure are fun.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Retics are pretty much going to be on the move. I would not consider them a 'lap snake' like a boa. Usually when I have a retic out, they want to move around and check stuff out and go exploring. I've had some of my boas fall alseep while being held before. Different for sure!

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Yeah, I agree from my experience with Boas and what I know of retics.

I have zero interest in retics because of how active they are and how big they get. Not the combo I want. My corn snakes give me a workout at 4FT and thin.

Both my boas have fallen asleep on me and often. If I had a dollar for everyone my Ghost BCI Female, Behira, fell asleep on my lap, I could pay for her tank!

Ugh that sucks. I always have loved the way they look but I want something that could hang out with me like my boa.


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I have an SD retic. He is MORE active than my mainland retics and much more of a jerk. Definitely not a lap snake. My 50% SD females are much more chill and even they won't sit still.

If you want a large lap snake look at a Dumerils boa.

Boa constrictors are great, carpet pythons can be great as well as far as chilling out. I usually will bring out a chair or put one bar stool on top of another seat to seat and let the snake climb around next to me while I sit.

My SD X Dwarf retic is somewhat annoying to handle and deal with. I have had him sit in my lap, but I had him wrapped him in a blanket and just had his head peaking out.

I usually touch him from time to time while I have him out to make sure he still knows we are interacting.

He's a great display snake and is fun to watch in the cage. I'd consider him a little large for something that only has 18% mainland in it's genetics but I can still handle him solo. He's between 8 and 10 feet from what I can tell.

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

Ugh that sucks. I always have loved the way they look but I want something that could hang out with me like my boa.


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If you're looking for something big and impressive but not as active, I've heard burms are more "relaxed".

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Originally Posted by Treeman

If you're looking for something big and impressive but not as active, I've heard burms are more "relaxed".

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Way bigger than a SD Retic. Your talking about a 13-16 foot 150lb snake now hahaha


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Yeah I think it would be cool to see him actually move around the cage (unlike my boa) but I want something I can hold too. I can hold my boa for hours and he’s very docile but he’s always in his hides. I guess that would asking for a perfect world [emoji23]. Unfortunately, I don’t want a huge snake so I don’t want a Burmese. Thanks everyone, I think I’ll stick to boas unless I just want a display animal.


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Originally Posted by bcr229

If you want a large lap snake look at a Dumerils boa.

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My Borneo STP is a perfect example of a lap snake. Bloods and STPs may be worth checking out too.

Don't have a SD or D but my retics are energetic and fun experience to have out. They have a mind of their own and are determined sometimes to do what they want. Love them though. Would not change a thing.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

My Borneo STP is a perfect example of a lap snake. Bloods and STPs may be worth checking out too.

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I was going to suggest this as well. My blood is more sedentary than my BPs!
They are a great heavy bodied snake that doesn't get *too* big to handle alone

I’m not really a fan of blood pythons and that type of look. I love retic faces, they’re so beautiful. I’ll think about it but I think I’ll just stick to boas.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

I’m not really a fan of blood pythons and that type of look. I love retic faces, they’re so beautiful. I’ll think about it but I think I’ll just stick to boas.


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There are plenty of Borneo and Sumatran morphs out there now too. Not sure if you meant bloods specifically or short tails in general

Sorry I meant short tails in general. [emoji23]


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Originally Posted by svtvenom

Yeah I think it would be cool to see him actually move around the cage (unlike my boa) but I want something I can hold too. I can hold my boa for hours and he’s very docile but he’s always in his hides. I guess that would asking for a perfect world [emoji23]. Unfortunately, I don’t want a huge snake so I don’t want a Burmese. Thanks everyone, I think I’ll stick to boas unless I just want a display animal.


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I concur on Carpet Python. Some get big, but several species stay small.

Irina Jaya's (IJ's) stay small as do Darwin's.

Yafe, is a mix of both. He shouldn't be longer than about 5-6 feet and probably will be noticeably less thick than a Ball Python. Being a male, 5ft is probably more reasonable. I was told by multiple people that a IJ/Darwin mix could live it's whole life happily in a 3X2' tank. However, they need height as they like to climb and love perches.

My Boaphile for him is a 4X2X1.5' with 2 perches (2") running from side to side on the tank. He went on a 4X2' tower so I gave him a little extra room. He does use the room and spend 75% of his time out and about as a display snake. At night he's all over the tank and during the day, he's usually on his warm perch.

Darwin's are know as the most arboreal carpet and IJ's the least. He's pretty arboreal, but will spend time in his hides.

Of note, Darwin's are more expensive. Both are known to be more docile/placid species even as young ones. However, Carpet's are known to be bitey when young. Yafe hasn't nailed me yet, but likes to his, especially when I try to get him off his perch!

I've heard 90% of them grow out of it.

Yafe loves to wrap around my arm and chill, but is more active than a boa by a little bit, I'd say. That doesn't mean he doesn't like to chill, but when he moves, he tends to move faster and a little less relaxed than my two boas.

Yafe's thread is below, if you want to see what he's about. You can skip more towards the back, as the beginning has a lot of drama. He was very sick when I got him.

I have heard that Carpet's are not as hardy as Boas, but get a captive bred individual, and meet husbandry requirements, and you should be fine. I don't think they are any worse than a BP, but Boas are pretty tough, especially BCI.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ression-Thread

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Originally Posted by dakski

I concur on Carpet Python. Some get big, but several species stay small.

Irina Jaya's (IJ's) stay small as do Darwin's.

Yafe, is a mix of both. He shouldn't be longer than about 5-6 feet and probably will be noticeably less thick than a Ball Python. Being a male, 5ft is probably more reasonable. I was told by multiple people that a IJ/Darwin mix could live it's whole life happily in a 3X2' tank. However, they need height as they like to climb and love perches.

My Boaphile for him is a 4X2X1.5' with 2 perches (2") running from side to side on the tank. He went on a 4X2' tower so I gave him a little extra room. He does use the room and spend 75% of his time out and about as a display snake. At night he's all over the tank and during the day, he's usually on his warm perch.

Darwin's are know as the most arboreal carpet and IJ's the least. He's pretty arboreal, but will spend time in his hides.

Of note, Darwin's are more expensive. Both are known to be more docile/placid species even as young ones. However, Carpet's are known to be bitey when young. Yafe hasn't nailed me yet, but likes to his, especially when I try to get him off his perch!

I've heard 90% of them grow out of it.

Yafe loves to wrap around my arm and chill, but is more active than a boa by a little bit, I'd say. That doesn't mean he doesn't like to chill, but when he moves, he tends to move faster and a little less relaxed than my two boas.

Yafe's thread is below, if you want to see what he's about. You can skip more towards the back, as the beginning has a lot of drama. He was very sick when I got him.

I have heard that Carpet's are not as hardy as Boas, but get a captive bred individual, and meet husbandry requirements, and you should be fine. I don't think they are any worse than a BP, but Boas are pretty tough, especially BCI.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ression-Thread

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Dakski, you may be slightly mistaken about a couple of points.

IJ's are quite similar (habit wise) to Darwins. IJ's are the only carpet species that don't live in Australia (New Guinea). Both however display semi arboreal characteristics so do coastals and jungles. The whole species in general is semi arboreal.

Python Spilotus Imbricatus (Southwestern carpet python) inhabits treeless areas with just thick shrubs about half a meter high for cover. They nest and live in rock crevices. Mostly a terrestrial carpet python in many areas. So they would be considered "less arboreal". That is likely due to habitat not because they won't climb.

Another common mistake people make about carpets is in regard to sexual size dimorphism. Male carpets, in the wild, will be the larger of the two sexes generally, in the species that engage in pre-mating combat. In captivity things likely will even out, but a male coastal or Darwin doesn't guarantee it will be smaller than a female.

If you are into carpets, read THE COMPLETE CARPET PYTHON by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander. It is a fantastic book.

I also find carpets every bit as hardy as boas, with the exception of the diamond which has some specific care requirements that need to be met.

Back to topic, OP, you certainly can find a SD that will behave differently than mine, as every individual is different.

A total lap snake is probably less of a display snake so you have to think about what you want most.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Dakski, you may be slightly mistaken about a couple of points.

IJ's are quite similar (habit wise) to Darwins. IJ's are the only carpet species that don't live in Australia (New Guinea). Both however display semi arboreal characteristics so do coastals and jungles. The whole species in general is semi arboreal.

Python Spilotus Imbricatus (Southwestern carpet python) inhabits treeless areas with just thick shrubs about half a meter high for cover. They nest and live in rock crevices. Mostly a terrestrial carpet python in many areas. So they would be considered "less arboreal". That is likely due to habitat not because they won't climb.

Another common mistake people make about carpets is in regard to sexual size dimorphism. Male carpets, in the wild, will be the larger of the two sexes generally, in the species that engage in pre-mating combat. In captivity things likely will even out, but a male coastal or Darwin doesn't guarantee it will be smaller than a female.

If you are into carpets, read THE COMPLETE CARPET PYTHON by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander. It is a fantastic book.

I also find carpets every bit as hardy as boas, with the exception of the diamond which has some specific care requirements that need to be met.

Back to topic, OP, you certainly can find a SD that will behave differently than mine, as every individual is different.

A total lap snake is probably less of a display snake so you have to think about what you want most.

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Gio,

I read that book and have it, but I thought I remembered, apparently wrong, that IJ's were more ground dwelling and Darwin's more arboreal. My apologies if I mixed that up. Yafe spends a lot of time, as stated earlier, in his perches. So I am not sure what that means regarding the differences between the two.

Thank you for the correction.

I also agree that display and lap snake don't necessarily go together, but find, with my limited experience, that Yafe, my carpet, is happy to be some of both.

Regarding health, I've heard numerous stories from different breeders about Boas, especially BCI, being quite hardy and have been told by others, including the breeder I got Yafe from, that Carpets can be less so. I am biased as Yafe was very sick when I got him after getting lost by fedex for 14 hours.

The breeder swore he was fine when he left and I am inclined to believe them for a variety of reasons.

That breeder said that with the morphs and hybrids (IJ/Darwin for example) they have found that some tend to be weaker immune wise.

Again, not trying to be argumentative, but rather, explaining my perspective.

Regarding size difference between male and female, I appreciate the clarification.

Take care and be well.

David

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Originally Posted by dakski

Gio,

I read that book and have it, but I thought I remembered, apparently wrong, that IJ's were more ground dwelling and Darwin's more arboreal. My apologies if I mixed that up. Yafe spends a lot of time, as stated earlier, in his perches. So I am not sure what that means regarding the differences between the two.

Thank you for the correction.

I also agree that display and lap snake don't necessarily go together, but find, with my limited experience, that Yafe, my carpet, is happy to be some of both.

Regarding health, I've heard numerous stories from different breeders about Boas, especially BCI, being quite hardy and have been told by others, including the breeder I got Yafe from, that Carpets can be less so. I am biased as Yafe was very sick when I got him after getting lost by fedex for 14 hours.

The breeder swore he was fine when he left and I am inclined to believe them for a variety of reasons.

That breeder said that with the morphs and hybrids (IJ/Darwin for example) they have found that some tend to be weaker immune wise.

Again, not trying to be argumentative, but rather, explaining my perspective.

Regarding size difference between male and female, I appreciate the clarification.

Take care and be well.

David

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Excellent response! The reason I said you "may be mistaken" was because I figured you mixed things up and just posted wrong.

No worries, I've made mistakes here and the fact you have the book, makes me fairly sure you are pretty well versed on the species.

Boas and carpets are 50-50 for me. I love both species and find the care requirements daily similar.

Unfortunately you had a rough go to start off with your carpet, however they tend to be a pretty easy keep.

You guys are right about either it being a lap snake or a display snake and that it can’t really be both. Thanks, that really helped me make a decision!


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Originally Posted by Gio

Excellent response! The reason I said you "may be mistaken" was because I figured you mixed things up and just posted wrong.

No worries, I've made mistakes here and the fact you have the book, makes me fairly sure you are pretty well versed on the species.

Boas and carpets are 50-50 for me. I love both species and find the care requirements daily similar.

Unfortunately you had a rough go to start off with your carpet, however they tend to be a pretty easy keep.

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Thank you for understanding and giving me the benefit of the doubt.

I love both boas and carpets too. However, OP has a boa, I believe. Therefore, I would recommend a carpet.

Also. Zero issues with Yafe since he’s been healthy. However. The same goes for all my reptiles. Rarely does husbandry equate to problems as I am pretty meticulous.

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

You guys are right about either it being a lap snake or a display snake and that it can’t really be both. Thanks, that really helped me make a decision!


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And.........

what did you decide?

I decided I will stick with boas. UNLESS I see a dwarf version of this... then I’m definitely getting it [emoji23]. Are they even producing these in dwarf retics?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f1d7851dfb.jpg


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That's an albino goldenchild tiger retic. Both albino and tiger come from mainland populations and goldenchild (I believe) comes from dwarf populations. It would have to be heavily crossed with dwarf (or SD) lines to stay smaller. So you're probably sol for a while at least.

That’s unfortunate [emoji24]. Are there any other morphs that are similar that come in dwarf that are yellow with the silver eyes?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

I decided I will stick with boas. UNLESS I see a dwarf version of this... then I’m definitely getting it [emoji23]. Are they even producing these in dwarf retics?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f1d7851dfb.jpg


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Sticking with boas or carpets isn't a bad idea. I actually find them easy and rewarding. My retic displays a bit better and is more fun to watch in the cage. But my boa and carpet are fairly active in the evening.

I wouldn't consider a dwarf retic small or anything "easy" to keep or handle. For instance, this is my SD x Dwarf X Mainland Tiger's spec sheet.

https://i.imgur.com/c4KtPpc.jpg

He doesn't have a huge percentage of SD or dwarf separately in his genes, but combined the dwarf and SD make him only 18% mainland. On paper he should be a smaller snake since he's male. The male/female sexual size dimorphism concept doesn't always apply or work out the way people imagine. There are male mainland animals that are 18 feet long.

Wallace will be 3 years old the first of June. As I stated earlier in the original post, he is larger than I was anticipating and I really would like to see his growth slow to a trickle soon.

This was a few months ago and he's grown since the photo surprisingly, longer and much thicker. While not huge or even big by retic standards, folks that are looking at SD X dwarf crosses should think hard about their potential size and plan for it.
https://i.imgur.com/ldb0YAO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/IV9O1PV.jpg?1

I'd say by now Wallace is 9 to 10 feet. He's nice and lean and much larger than he is in these photos. I usually feed every 3 weeks and the meals are not larger than a large rat or quail. He still grows even with moderate feeding levels.

This is NOT a lap snake. He's very active, relatively strong and somewhat irritating to handle. I will let him go over my shoulders and the back of my neck occasionally but I don't like him up by my neck when I'm solo and I never let him get even a loose loop by my neck. I'm not small and I'm very capable of taking care of myself, but snakes don't always broadcast their intentions. A little slip, or a bout of nerves and they can tighten up quickly. It's something you have to be ready for.

He's not a bad snake, I'm just reiterating what others have said here about their activity levels and handling characteristics. They like to move generally and the larger they are the more involved the handling gets.

This is the latest photo I have of him. The cage is 6' wide 30" deep and 2' tall. He's wrapped and spread out on the top perch system so you can't really see his length.
https://i.imgur.com/GrYM26O.jpg


If you have a passion for one of these go for it, but if you are on the fence stick with your boas, they are fantastic snakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

Sticking with boas or carpets isn't a bad idea. I actually find them easy and rewarding. My retic displays a bit better and is more fun to watch in the cage. But my boa and carpet are fairly active in the evening.

I wouldn't consider a dwarf retic small or anything "easy" to keep or handle. For instance, this is my SD x Dwarf X Mainland Tiger's spec sheet.

https://i.imgur.com/c4KtPpc.jpg

He doesn't have a huge percentage of SD or dwarf separately in his genes, but combined the dwarf and SD make him only 18% mainland. On paper he should be a smaller snake since he's male. The male/female sexual size dimorphism concept doesn't always apply or work out the way people imagine. There are male mainland animals that are 18 feet long.

Wallace will be 3 years old the first of June. As I stated earlier in the original post, he is larger than I was anticipating and I really would like to see his growth slow to a trickle soon.

This was a few months ago and he's grown since the photo surprisingly, longer and much thicker. While not huge or even big by retic standards, folks that are looking at SD X dwarf crosses should think hard about their potential size and plan for it.
https://i.imgur.com/ldb0YAO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/IV9O1PV.jpg?1

I'd say by now Wallace is 9 to 10 feet. He's nice and lean and much larger than he is in these photos. I usually feed every 3 weeks and the meals are not larger than a large rat or quail. He still grows even with moderate feeding levels.

This is NOT a lap snake. He's very active, relatively strong and somewhat irritating to handle. I will let him go over my shoulders and the back of my neck occasionally but I don't like him up by my neck when I'm solo and I never let him get even a loose loop by my neck. I'm not small and I'm very capable of taking care of myself, but snakes don't always broadcast their intentions. A little slip, or a bout of nerves and they can tighten up quickly. It's something you have to be ready for.

He's not a bad snake, I'm just reiterating what others have said here about their activity levels and handling characteristics. They like to move generally and the larger they are the more involved the handling gets.

This is the latest photo I have of him. The cage is 6' wide 30" deep and 2' tall. He's wrapped and spread out on the top perch system so you can't really see his length.
https://i.imgur.com/GrYM26O.jpg


If you have a passion for one of these go for it, but if you are on the fence stick with your boas, they are fantastic snakes.

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Very well said, Gio!

I still have a deep appreciation for retics, but I must say mine were the combined equivalent of caring for probably a dozen boas. NOT a lap snake by any measure.

OP, I’d turn my back for two seconds cleaning cages and find the big girl (pure SD and still hit 10’ in under three years) tearing the blinds from the windows, knocking pictures off the wall, climbing my bookshelf... they’re an all attention all the time snake when handling. And don’t get me started about the amount of cleaning they required. Piss about every other day, would paint the walls with excrement, tear the cage apart regularly. Also, do some serious research into their “pushing” habits. NO. FUN. AT. ALL.

Amazing snakes, but I may have just been dealt the wrong hand in terms of high maintenance animals. I still love the species but for me, for now, I’m finding much more enjoyment from boas. Much more laid back so far, though my Argentine is a mouthy little thing when I first get her out hah!

I sincerely hope not to come across as discouraging. I just feel that folks interested in retics should know as much as possible, both good and bad, before taking the plunge. Cheers!


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I sincerely hope not to come across as discouraging. I just feel that folks interested in retics should know as much as possible, both good and bad, before taking the plunge. Cheers!

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I really appreciate people sharing stories of the issues that can and do arise with retics because they ARE different than keeping other snakes and there are good and bad points to it. People should be aware of both sides and I'm glad that you and others here share all their stories and issues for people to read and learn from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

While not huge or even big by retic standards, folks that are looking at SD X dwarf crosses should think hard about their potential size and plan for it.

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Agreed. A 9' dwarf retic (still not full grown usually) is so much different than a 9' boa, while both are strong animals, the retic is really a handful. I'm hoping to get some size comparison photos of the ones here so people have an idea of the diff between adult female mainland, 50% dwarf and 75% SD.

ps Wallace is looking great!

Thanks jmcrook, that really puts it into perspective. I can literally visualize myself cleaning the cage and turning about the blinds are ripped off my window [emoji23]. I love how my boa will just chill on my bed while I clean his cage. He’s actually really lazy and as long as he’s holding on to something he will usually stay in place. He does have his moments when he’s active but he literally exactly what I want temperament wise. I guess I’m just addicted to the look of retics and I am trying to tell myself that maybe he will magically turn out to be calm like my boa. I think I have made up my mind about not getting a retic even though they are beautiful. I don’t think I would enjoy holding a retic much and it would probably just be annoying. I might try to hold one at the next expo I go to. I have thought about it in the past but I don’t want to seem like I wasn’t interested in actually buying the animal and just wanting to hold it. Every time I see other people holding them they always seem to be trying to wrangle them compared to the people holding boas. I have also read about the pushing and that definitely doesn’t seem like fun. Ugh I couldn’t imagine cleaning the walls covered I feces. My boa is such a neat pooper lol. He always poops in the same spot and never sits near it.


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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

That's an albino goldenchild tiger retic. Both albino and tiger come from mainland populations and goldenchild (I believe) comes from dwarf populations. It would have to be heavily crossed with dwarf (or SD) lines to stay smaller. So you're probably sol for a while at least.

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You are correct. Love the GC on its own. Don't have room for one though. Such a beautiful animal.