underground reptiles

I'm not trying to run them down. I've seen plenty of unboxing videos with good reviews. But just on my experiences with them. I have bought a Green tree python and an Indonesian tree boa from them about three years apart. They both stayed alive long enough to make it past the guarantee. Then died. I have had several snakes, lizards, and tarantulas. And none have ever died in my care. I'm not saying they shipped me an unhealthy animal. But...
And I still look at their website and there's a lot of animals that I look at and it says out of stock. But yet they post a ton of videos on Facebook. Pretty hard to sell if they're not updating the site to get rid of the out of stock sign.
But I don't really blame them. I'll maybe one day buy something from them again. And that Rian guy seems pretty cool. But who knows...

I've had no dealings with them at all, but just one thing comes to my mind: were the snakes you bought captive-bred, or wild-caught? Makes all the difference
in the world! W/C snakes are often heavily-parasitized, and if not treated properly & promptly, they're not going to thrive. :( In fact, when a snake comes from
the wild & you start feeding them better, their internal parasites do "better" as well. Even if they have a preliminary treatment before you get them, you need
to plan on doing lab work (fecals) to keep them clean.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I've had no dealings with them at all, but just one thing comes to my mind: were the snakes you bought captive-bred, or wild-caught? Makes all the difference
in the world! W/C snakes are often heavily-parasitized, and if not treated properly & promptly, they're not going to thrive. :( In fact, when a snake comes from
the wild & you start feeding them better, their internal parasites do "better" as well. Even if they have a preliminary treatment before you get them, you need
to plan on doing lab work (fecals) to keep them clean.

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They were claimed to be "farm bred".

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Originally Posted by Samurai

They were claimed to be "farm bred".

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How long was their guarantee? A necropsy would have been useful (esp. to argue for a refund).
"Farm-bred" from W/C animals perhaps? :confusd: Pretty sure I'd buy elsewhere in the future.

I live about 15 min away so I visit their store regularly for feeders in the past. I also bought my king from them.

I would not recommend them for anything.

Half of their staff gives out bad advice. Ryan is okay, probably one of their most knowledgeable employees but he was caught making mistakes too. Their animals are housed from okay to being outrageous. They sell domestic mammals as well such as pigs. The last time they tried to sell them, they housed the babies in one of their large reptile cages that is way too small for pigs, with no enrichment at all. They were immediately criticized for this and they moved them into the back, out of sight, which does not guaranteed the conditions were better. Their snakes in the display tanks mostly have no hides, some in not good condition either.

Their frozen feeders were mostly skin and bones, crushed against each other, and the incompetent staff always give me the wrong size. They breed and euthanize their own feeders.

I got lucky with my king. She was a surrender and lived in the back for 30 days, then put on display for awhile before I got her. It was a huge risk and I would never do that again.

A common complaint is if your animal is sick or dies, they are very reluctant to give you a refund, and will request for proof of the set up.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

How long was their guarantee? A necropsy would have been useful (esp. to argue for a refund).
"Farm-bred" from W/C animals perhaps? :confusd: Pretty sure I'd buy elsewhere in the future.

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More than likely going to stay with CV Exotics. Have thought about Dynasty Reptiles. But will do CV the most

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I've had no dealings with them at all, but just one thing comes to my mind: were the snakes you bought captive-bred, or wild-caught? Makes all the difference
in the world! W/C snakes are often heavily-parasitized, and if not treated properly & promptly, they're not going to thrive. :( In fact, when a snake comes from
the wild & you start feeding them better, their internal parasites do "better" as well. Even if they have a preliminary treatment before you get them, you need
to plan on doing lab work (fecals) to keep them clean.

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ALWAYS take a suspected wild-caught to the vet for a fecal

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

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I would not recommend them for anything...

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I think I remember others not happy with animals they bought from them too, but I was hesitant to say that...thanks for adding your personal experience w/ them.

As for the OP's bad experience with their animals, even "if" they were captive-bred they were likely exposed to other sick animals on the premises. :(

I was just trying not to make any waves with the people that had good dealings with them. They say the animals are visually healthy when shipped. So I didn't say anything to them either time cuz I know they are going to just find any reason to blame me. So I just take the $400 loss and move on.

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Originally Posted by Samurai

They were claimed to be "farm bred".

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You don't usually hear captive-bred snakes described this way & "farms" are generally outdoors: makes me wonder where the "farm" actually is & if one needs a
passport to see it. :rolleyes:

And "visually healthy" is only as good as that person's "vision". It takes lots of experience to recognize a healthy snake with any degree of accuracy...just saying.
Sorry about your losses.

I have no experience with them, but I've heard quite a few bad things about them. I wouldn't put it past them to be drop-shippers. I once contacted them to ask when their garters would be in stock, and they were pretty quick and polite to respond. But I would be wary. There's just something suspicious about their website and their copied-and-pasted animal facts on each item.

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Originally Posted by Samurai

I was just trying not to make any waves with the people that had good dealings with them. They say the animals are visually healthy when shipped. So I didn't say anything to them either time cuz I know they are going to just find any reason to blame me. So I just take the $400 loss and move on.

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I have watched a transaction take place where the staff was selling a ball python that was underweight: saggy skin and portruding spine. They told the customer it had been eating very well, the customer who could not tell the difference between what looks normal and what does not.

I had also watched them sell the wrong UVB lights to bearded dragon owners as well as the owners coming back, with their beardie that they purchased from them, complaining that their lizard is not eating, etc. I had to step in many times to tell them that the cheap coiled UVB bulb is junk and a real effective one will cost them about $70-90, which the store does not carry or advice their customers about. Not enough UVB: no appetite plus MBD. The customers would always look at me in shock and the staff would look irritated that I butted in. Unfortunately, many more animals are being sold to unaware, new keepers who take their word as is. It really is also the fault of the owner for not doing their own research and take heed in the old warning: buyer beware.

Side note: similar thing occurs in The Jungle, another online retailer and pet store nearby. They list blue tongue skinks with MBD (The spine was curved) at full retail price and snakes with R/I for sale. You would think they would remove them from display or lower the price.

So I take good reviews from pet stores like that with a grain of salt. There's are times when they did deliver a healthy animal as promised. My king is an example of that. Surrounded by other cages where snakes had stuck shed and less than ideal conditions, she is healthy, free of mites and no issues. It is a roll of a dice depending on who picked out your animal for shipping.

Also keep in mind, were the reviews someone new to the hobby who can't tell the difference between a healthy or sick animal? Did the animal they purchased survived long enough just to die months later (Keep in mind it can take weeks until symptoms show) that may or may not have been sick the whole time? UG is known for blaming the customer, saying that you had the animal long past the return period so therefore it is your fault. But like I said, due to their staff's lack of experience and drives to make a sale, and that it can take weeks for symptoms to show, I would not rule out of being given a sick animal at all.

Farm bred means the animal in question was bred in the country where their parents (usually wild) are from. Then it is shipped over here for sale. They are not bred responsibly in terms of selecting and matching up healthy parents who may have no genetic defect and good temperaments. This is an option when captive breeding and hatching has not been established yet or the cost of captive breeding was more than the farm breds so there is a demand for the more affordable.

Since you brought it up earlier, I had met Chun from Dynasty Reptiles at an expo. I bought my woma from him (They breed their own womas). Sweetest little dude. Healthy with no issues. He was very nice, gives me all the advice without having asked for it, and even encouraged me to contact him should I have any questions later. I would highly recommend him.

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Originally Posted by Samurai

More than likely going to stay with CV Exotics. Have thought about Dynasty Reptiles. But will do CV the most

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I’ve not purchased from CV Exotics, but have bought from Dynasty Reptiles (Chun). Great experience and wouldn’t hesitate to buy from him again.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You don't usually hear captive-bred snakes described this way & "farms" are generally outdoors: makes me wonder where the "farm" actually is & if one needs a
passport to see it. :rolleyes:

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There are plenty of farm bred snakes in the industry. Simplified - areas set up in their wild habitats, the local keepers catch or keep WC, let them breed in the area (fenced off, building or what have you) and sell the babies. The babies are not specifically 'wild caught' as they were not caught in the wild, they were bred in an enclosed area (aka farm, It's just the terminology used) from WC parents in their native habitat. I hope that helps?

Yeah. There's is the only site I have ever seen animals described as farm bred. Well live and learn I guess. But I am seriously considering one from Dynasty. Even know which one too.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

There are plenty of farm bred snakes in the industry. Simplified - areas set up in their wild habitats, the local keepers catch or keep WC, let them breed in the area (fenced off, building or what have you) and sell the babies. The babies are not specifically 'wild caught' as they were not caught in the wild, they were bred in an enclosed area (aka farm, It's just the terminology used) from WC parents in their native habitat. I hope that helps?

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Yes, that's what I thought that meant...but I think many buyers aren't aware & equate "farm bred" with captive-bred. It's highly deceptive, IMO.

It's also pretty hard to verify...for all a buyer knows, they put a fence around some property & catch w/c to sell as "farm bred".

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Originally Posted by Samurai

Yeah. There's is the only site I have ever seen animals described as farm bred. Well live and learn I guess. But I am seriously considering one from Dynasty. Even know which one too.

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I've seen the term for fish or alligators, for example...but you don't usually see it used for snakes. It implies captive-bred, but it's a world apart, & more like wild-caught.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yes, that's what I thought that meant...but I think many buyers aren't aware & equate "farm bred" with captive-bred. It's highly deceptive, IMO.

It's also pretty hard to verify...for all a buyer knows, they put a fence around some property & catch w/c to sell as "farm bred".

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Exactly what I thought. I was thinking farm bred meant captive bred. Guess farm bred is underground's way of saying wild caught without just coming out and admitting it.