Pattern mutations?

Are there any pattern mutations out there besides Calico/ Sugar/ Bubblegum etc. that wash away/ blow out the pattern? I’m still trying to figure out what is going on with a few holdbacks from last year.

Here is a pretty good example of what I’m looking at:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ebe652c111.jpg
The side pattern is there, then just washed away. It’s like this in multiple places on her.

Here is another from a different clutch:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c49d0900dc.png
Maybe just extreme flames going on??
Hard to capture how orange they are and getting brighter every shed.
No Orange Dream or Enchi in the pairing. First pic I believe is a Firefly Yellowbelly Het Pied. Second pic should only be a Firefly YB or Superfly YB.

Any input/pics are appreciated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It seems pretty common among ball pythons. I’ve seen all kinds of morphs that get faded, pixelated or washed out on the sides. It’s one of the things like about them, how their crazy colors fade to white belly.


Sent from my iPhone using Crapatalk.

Pretty common?? I’ve been searching for months trying to find matches or something close. These started super blushed/ washed out, just turning more orange as they age.

They look nothing like what they are “supposed “ to look like. Any comparison pics would be greatly appreciated.

Just looking at MM I came across this from NERD. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...194ce2aa4d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

are you just talking about high flames washing out pattern?
here's a low exp pastel het pied I produced in '17 with high flames washing out color, not sure if that is what you mean? If so, I suspect it's the het pied influence
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...EmUuziqIga.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jbabycsx

Just looking at MM I came across this from NERD. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...194ce2aa4d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Yeah check out all the genes involved to make that snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

are you just talking about high flames washing out pattern?
here's a low exp pastel het pied I produced in '17 with high flames washing out color, not sure if that is what you mean? If so, I suspect it's the het pied influence
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...EmUuziqIga.jpg

---

What I’m looking at is the “alien head” patterns get cut off halfway to the belly. Yours is very beautiful with consistent flames and alien heads. On some of the babies I produced last season the pattern is all over the place. It’s there, then erased and back again.

Het pied could be the main influence in the first pic, but no het pied in the second pic.

Here’s another pic. No het pied influence. Pairing was what I believe to be a Firefly Yellowbelly x Pastel.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...82c59db649.jpg
See how the spots at the belly from the YB influence are there, then erased and back again. Just seems odd to me and haven’t found really anything else out there that’s similar.

Just looking for insight/answers. The sire that produced all my clutches this season was sold to me as a super pastel yb, but proved last year not to be the case. I’m not exactly sure what all he’s carrying. Hopefully this season I’ll have some answers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I remember this post from a while back. The last reptile expo I attended I saw this same patterning effect at one of the tables and made a mental note based on the previous questions/photos you had shown.

Working 60+ hrs/week for many months--I can't remember much of anything now: I do remember it was an odd two gene interaction and one of the genes was one that I had no interest in. It may have been Specter, but, I cannot recall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

I remember this post from a while back. The last reptile expo I attended I saw this same patterning effect at one of the tables and made a mental note based on the previous questions/photos you had shown.

Working 60+ hrs/week for many months--I can't remember much of anything now: I do remember it was an odd two gene interaction and one of the genes was one that I had no interest in. It may have been Specter, but, I cannot recall.

---

That’s what I’m wondering. Maybe the sire is not a YB, but something in the same complex?? I heard a lot of the YB’s where I got my sire from were produced from puma’s, so he could be a spark instead.

I have him paired to a Puma, Enchi, and a dark normal this season. Really hoping the Puma lays this season. It would really help me with some answers, or confuse me even more......

Champagne can have some interesting pattern effects.

Cinny or black pastel + fire can also give you that look.

SPARK!!! Not Specter. That was the one I was trying to remember.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Champagne can have some interesting pattern effects.

Cinny or black pastel + fire can also give you that look.

---

I don’t think the sire is carrying either of those. He produced 27 babies last season with only one normal. No champagne, black pastel, or cinnamon popped up.

These guys should only have a few genes at play:
Pastel/Super Pastel
Fire
YB
And het Pied in the first pic

Why they are so orange is another question.....

You are just seeing the synergistic effect of combining Fire, Pastel, and YB. I have and have made numerous Firefly, Superfly, Bellyfly, Superbellyfly, etc and they all tend to have some level or other of that floating/warping/wiping on them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asplundii

You are just seeing the synergistic effect of combining Fire, Pastel, and YB. I have and have made numerous Firefly, Superfly, Bellyfly, Superbellyfly, etc and they all tend to have some level or other of that floating/warping/wiping on them

---

Thanks for the input! Definitely appreciated.

Any of those you produced turning orange in the flames and/or blushing? These really don’t have flames, they are just orange between the pattern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asplundii

You are just seeing the synergistic effect of combining Fire, Pastel, and YB. I have and have made numerous Firefly, Superfly, Bellyfly, Superbellyfly, etc and they all tend to have some level or other of that floating/warping/wiping on them

---

Also the heads on these are all wrong for them to be superfly, at least from what I have seen. Everything I’ve seen the heads are almost completely white. Maybe the YB is darkening up the head??

Pastel YB 100% Het Pied
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...83e0a53876.jpg
Add Fire
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e732e8f521.jpg
Seems pretty extreme for just adding fire??

Both are from the same clutch. I though Fire is a highlighter gene, not whacking out the pattern and turning orange. Combination of fire and yb??

Here is my sire. What I believe to be a Firefly Yellowbelly
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...33303655e7.jpg



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MS2

Any of those you produced turning orange in the flames and/or blushing? These really don’t have flames, they are just orange between the pattern.

---

Depends on your definition of "orange"... Nothing that is OD level "orange" but some have a slight umber undertone to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MS2

Also the heads on these are all wrong for them to be superfly, at least from what I have seen. Everything I’ve seen the heads are almost completely white. Maybe the YB is darkening up the head??

---

This kind of depends on age and expression levels. I have had a few Superflies that had fairly pigmented heads and some that have been nearly "bald"-looking. And yes, YB can influence this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MS2

Both are from the same clutch. I though Fire is a highlighter gene, not whacking out the pattern and turning orange. Combination of fire and yb??k

---

Fire does have a pattern distortion effect. If you look at single gene Fire animals you can see that their patterning is atypical. When combined with Pastel and YB, which are also both pattern impacting mutants, you get synergistic effects

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MS2

Here is my sire. What I believe to be a Firefly Yellowbelly

---

Looks like my Bellyfly breeder male so I would agree with that ID

Thanks for the reply. Here are a few other pics with my definition of “orange”. The ones that have it are dominated by it. I wouldn’t say they are your normal flames/blushing.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...19f9f96ef5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...29b90607b5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ba593a42b3.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8ef1f29021.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e64abd3fc6.jpg
All pics are related by the FFYB sire.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk