Pueblan off food?

Do Pueblans go off food? Eeden didn't eat this week. He has been hunting all week since he came out of a shed. The barometric pressure did drop from the cold front and snow that moved in. The mouse smells fine. He also used to take it off the tongs and now I have to leave it in the cage for him to eat. I don't understand what is going on.

Any ideas?

Probably sensing it's winter. He was eating quite regularly & has good body weight, right? I wouldn't worry...
And he probably wasn't "hunting" for food, but for a place to brumate.

My male was voracious when young but now he really has backed off of food over the winter and whenever he is in shed.

You can also try moving yours from a 7-day to 14-day feeding schedule if he's no longer a growing juvenile.

He is 10 and was kept very small. I beefed him up from 68g and now he is the size of a boom handle at his widest point and 247g.

He used to be a great eater. Now he won't take food of the tongs. It's like he is scared. And now he didn't eat. He has done a 180. His tank has cooled a little and when he is out he wedges himself up between the screen and top of the tank (then falls).

10 years old? He shouldn't be eating weekly & he (or rather his body) is trying to say it's too much. I'd only feed him every other week (q. 10-14 days).

A broom handle is pretty thick...how long is he? These are supposed to be slender snakes, not like BPs. ;) I wouldn't feed him large mice either, mediums
at the very most and preferably small mice.

You said "he was kept very small" so it sounds like he got off to a rocky start in life....it's possible he is showing signs of age* faster than others might have.
*like needing less food. But I still think he wants "out" to find a place to snooze for a month or so. If his body weight is good, why not let him? If he hasn't
eaten lately, gradually (over about 10 days) lower his cage heat until it's off. Put a towel over his cage to darken it. In another week put his cage in a cooler
location (floor of closet maybe?). Only check now & then to refill his water bowl...let him sleep (brumate) for a month or two, then gradually do all in reverse.

When he gets up against the top of his cage & keeps falling, it's not good for him and he's telling you he needs out, that his cage is too warm for what he wants
& needs right now. I know it's unsettling to consider brumating a snake, but as long as he's not showing any signs of illness it's just nature's way. I suspect
that since he "was kept very small" that maybe it has taken him this long to fully mature. Adult snakes instinctively go off feed in winter not only to survive
the cold, but because they NEED the cool down for reproductive success (fertility). Listen to what he's saying. :snake:

And when a snake that would normally brumate in the wild is offered food in late fall or winter, it's NORMAL for them to "act afraid of it" and reject it.

They instinctively know that to eat at the wrong time of year can mean death (in the wild), since getting caught with a belly full of food when there is no hope
of digesting it means it will spoil in their stomach & can kill them. Over many years, natural selection has killed off those that didn't "listen"...and you now have
a snake that "knows" how to survive successfully.

Not all colubrid pet snakes are this adamant about not eating in winter, but when they are, you need to listen. I have corn & various rat snakes that eat all the
time. I also have a Western longnose snake (similar to a small king snake, from TX) and a rosy boa (native to CA deserts) that do exactly what your milk snake
is doing. I do not brumate these 2...they go about 3 months without eating & are fine. But I have brumated a number of snakes in the past when I also bred a
few & they required fertility. Based on the behavior you describe, I would personally brumate your Pueblan.

FYI, my longnose snake is now 16 years old, and my rosy boa is 16 years old too. Both have good body weight & do this every year. ;)

One more thought:

When snakes awaken in spring, their first thought is usually NOT food. So don't be shocked if your snake isn't interested in food for a while, he or she will
likely be thinking about a mate, first & foremost...only later, about food. It's we humans that are food-obsessed, lol...it sure makes it hard to see it the way
our snakes do, but eventually we "get it". :D

Is there a way to put something in the gap between the screen lid and the edge of the tank so he can't wedge himself in there and keep falling?

Do do you think also he has out grown his tank! When I got him he was slightly longer than a 20 L. Now he is a lot longer.

And i I will feed him every two weeks as well.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Is there a way to put something in the gap between the screen lid and the edge of the tank so he can't wedge himself in there and keep falling?

Do do you think also he has out grown his tank! When I got him he was slightly longer than a 20 L. Now he is a lot longer.

And i I will feed him every two weeks as well.

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Sure: go to a hardware/home improvem't store & buy some narrow wood molding to fit the gap, & glue it in place with silicone seal or other glue that dries safe, no VOC.
(or if you can find plastic in the same shape to fit the gap...many things can work, maybe even some rope glued in place)

A 20L is 30" long, right? If he's a lot longer, you might think about an upgrade, but the other thing you can do is make his home a "2-story" for now: I sometimes cut
down a large cardboard box for custom cage "furniture"- milk or king snakes enjoy feeling underground & if you can find cardboard to modify & fit, make it so he can be
"underground" with substrate to burrow in under the "false floor", & cut 2 holes so he can go up to the 2nd floor with hides & water. It might help him settle down too.

He should be fine with feeding every 2 weeks, especially in winter. You might need to go a bit shorter in summer when he has more appetite, but not weekly. 10+ days.

Anyone have a mock up of this condo idea? Love it just can't picture it lol. And going back and looking at the care sheets his temps are 10 degrees lower than they should be. As soon as I get back to work I will get a larger watt bulb to raise temps. He is sitting at 75 on the warm side and no uth. Bad mommy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Anyone have a mock up of this condo idea? Love it just can't picture it lol. And going back and looking at the care sheets his temps are 10 degrees lower than they should be. As soon as I get back to work I will get a larger watt bulb to raise temps. He is sitting at 75 on the warm side and no uth. Bad mommy!

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No wonder he's not eating...:colbert: LOL -I would recommend using UTH, regulated down to about 86*...these are not snakes that bask, they prefer to burrow.

I don't have pics, but just picture using a cardboard box* like a hide that covers the whole cage floor, open to the bottom. And cut a few holes so he can come up from
"the basement". *I've made custom hides before too (waterproofed sides, tile board top)- cardboard won't last forever- & most other things that are moreless the right
shape (like a kitty litter box) won't fit in a 20L. If you manage to do this, the "upper floor" will be closer to the light also, making it warmer. (UTH is still best for milksn.)

*you can also use a large flat piece of corrugated cardboard cut to fit tank, only 6" longer & 6" wider than the tank- then cut the corners out & fold side flaps so it's about 3" tall. Does this help? :confusd: Or did I confuse you even better? hahaha

I guess you've never seen those cages like some pro-breeders use: where they have a wall of built-in cabinets separated into multiple snake enclosures with glass
front doors that open, but each enclosure also has a hole in the floor that goes into a drawer underneath? (the drawers can also be opened) Snakes like kings &
milk snakes love that..."a 2-story". :D

I have an uth but it is not plugged in because im waiting on another jumpstart.

Snowmageddin has begun so it will be tueaday before i get all his good stuff. I have firmed up the heat in the living room too.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I heard you all are getting slammed with another snow storm...:( Stay safe & warm...

This has been a great read and very helpful!

thanks for posting and thanks to boger for all the great insight and advice.

I have a male MBK who has been off feed since mid November. It had me very worried at first as he was a ferocious eater for 3 months prior.

Once tenps started to drop toward middle to end of nov he began refusing.

I think he’s 2-3 years old. I’m unsure as I purchased him in August as an adult. He’s a big boy too at 1,000g. He hasn’t really lost any weight and I pretty much stopped offering him. He has a UTH that I keep about 86 but no other heat so lately his cage is around 70 ambient but at night and cold days can drop to 67-68.

Im assuming hoping and praying that all discussed here is what applies to my guy and once the weather breaks he will snap out of it.

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Originally Posted by Phillydubs

This has been a great read and very helpful!

thanks for posting and thanks to boger for all the great insight and advice.

I have a male MBK who has been off feed since mid November. It had me very worried at first as he was a ferocious eater for 3 months prior.

Once tenps started to drop toward middle to end of nov he began refusing.

I think he’s 2-3 years old. I’m unsure as I purchased him in August as an adult. He’s a big boy too at 1,000g. He hasn’t really lost any weight and I pretty much stopped offering him. He has a UTH that I keep about 86 but no other heat so lately his cage is around 70 ambient but at night and cold days can drop to 67-68.

Im assuming hoping and praying that all discussed here is what applies to my guy and once the weather breaks he will snap out of it.

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Snakes that brumate in nature take their cues from the daylight (length of days are shorter in winter) and from the drop in temperatures. They also have improved
fertility with a winter cool-down, and brumation is how they not only survive the cold but actually thrive. When I've brumated snakes to breed in the past,
their temperatures were only down to about 50* to mid-50's*. If you're not breeding them it's better to avoid brumation if you can, since their immune system
virtually shuts off when they're cold, so anything they might have been carrying & fighting off (unknown to us) can make them sick. Rarely, some snakes will even
die during brumation, or awaken sick, so brumation is not without risks.

Phillydubs, keep in mind that the warmth in your MBK's enclosure will determine his metabolism & resulting weight loss, so since he hasn't eaten in a while anyway,
you might want to lower his UTH some to mid-70's (if you don't want to risk brumation) & let him snooze a while. Put a towel over half his cage to darken it. Then
in a month or so gradually warm him up...don't offer food until about 2 weeks after his cage temps. have been normal. (he'll be thinking about breeding too, sorry,
I can't help ya there, lol) MBK's are awesome, I miss the pair I used to have. Just when you wonder if a snake will ever eat again, they turn into a bottomless pit...;)

Eeden didn't eat again. I upped the wattage on his light so he is warmer. No dice at all! Odyn won't eat either. I'm about to cry! Do I just stop until spring....seriously!

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Eeden didn't eat again. I upped the wattage on his light so he is warmer. No dice at all! Odyn won't eat either. I'm about to cry! Do I just stop until spring....seriously!

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I'm not surprised. Once a snake gets the idea it's winter, you may or may not change their mind. I still suggest UTH heat...belly heat rises into cage, & puts the
warmth where they feel it best for digestion. Overhead lights less effective, since heat rises up up & away. Up to you...to keep trying or brumate a while. I know
it's frustrating, but he's just doing what evolution is telling him to do. You blew it, letting him get too cool, lol. But he might have gone off-feed anyway, just based
on day length. Try not to worry too much. If you can try belly heat &/or more warmth as he has now for another week or 2, that's probably what I'd do...& if that
doesn't change his mind, then slowly (over a week or so) cool him down & let him snooze a while. He'll probably be just fine...:snake: this is what real snakes do. ;)

And btw, crying won't change their snakey-minds, lol.

I'm just waiting on the thermostat and uth now. And I'm going to do the condo idea too. I don't have any place to bromate him.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

I'm just waiting on the thermostat and uth now. And I'm going to do the condo idea too. I don't have any place to bromate him.

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That's good. As far as any place to brumate, if you have a closet that's on an "outer wall" of your residence, it's likely cool enough: first, floors are cooler than
higher up, & I'd be surprised (with the weather you're having) if such a closet isn't fairly chilly. That's just if he doesn't respond & eat with additional heat...

Keep in mind (IF you do let him snooze a while) that he doesn't have to be fully cold enough for serious brumation, just on the lower end of room temps. & in dark will keep him from losing too much body weight. Remember, temperature determines a snake's metabolism...cooler = slowed down.
Good luck...either way, don't worry...this is all normal snake stuff. ;)

Take heart - my male Cali king and female MBK both went off food in Dec and each took a meal again this week.

They're adults, they will eat when they are ready.

Thanks you guys! I just get so worried since Eeden was my always ready to eat snake. And he was a rescue so I'm extra worried.

Odyn did eat after all. I got a small rat really really hot and he finally took it! After I offered Eedens mouse to him and he turned his nose at it!

See? At least Odyn ate for you. There really should be a "rule"...only one snake picking on mom at a time...;)

OMG he is rubbing scales off his head and some here and there on his upper body! Wth is he doing? I'm going to try to get a picture. I am assuming from trying to wedge up against the screen top!

Sounds like he's trying to escape his enclosure...maybe to find a place cooler to brumate? That would be my guess...what are his cage temps? Have you
lowered them at all? I assume you've been keeping them up & still hoping he'll eat? If his cage has been warm, you need to listen to what he's saying.

Actually he has calmed down a lot since I regulated his uth and got a new bulb. He used to constantly wedge himself now he only does it maybe once a day like he used to when I first got him. I was just talking to him because he was watching me and I noticed his nose.

a week ago I would hear flunk from him falling constantly. Now he stays on the ground.

Glad he's "calmer" but you sure didn't sound calm about it...pardon my confusion,

I'm not calm about his scales. That worries me.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

I'm not calm about his scales. That worries me.

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What kind of screen top are you using? Like sold in Petco etc? They are fairly abrasive...try lining it with nylon window screen. Not expensive, sold in hardware stores.

Ok. Will do and I'll get something so he can't wedge anymore.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Ok. Will do and I'll get something so he can't wedge anymore.

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That would help...

Well...two sheds in a month! I think that may have been part of the problem. Lol. He shed on 1/28 and again 2/28. And it takes two weeks for him to fully shed out. So he shed and immediately went into the next shed. Poor little Eeden.

As I recall, he was eating a lot, so that makes sense...his body had to "catch up". Hopefully he'll be back to normal soon.

He has t eaten in a month and he is hunting tonight.

Not eating for a month didn't hurt him one bit, not to worry...nice that he's acting normal again though, so you can stop worrying.

He is trying to eat now. He takes it then leaves it, then takes it and leaves it. Silly little snek.

and I will never stop worrying.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

He is trying to eat now. He takes it then leaves it, then takes it and leaves it. Silly little snek.

and I will never stop worrying.

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He's probably wondering why you keep giving him food when all he really wants is a cool nap & a romp with a mate, & not necessarily in that order... :D

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He's probably wondering why you keep giving him food when all he really wants is a cool nap & a romp with a mate, & not necessarily in that order... :D

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i don't even know Eedens gender so.....and no. I'm still trying to build his condo out. I'm also going to move him back down to hoppers.