Some feeding confusion

Hey guys! I'm facing a bit of a quandary here and am not sure what to make of it. My 5-month-old BP Iggy had been feeding on frozen/thawed rat fuzzies every 7 days without issues ... until today, when he's doing something weird. He is readily striking and wrapping with no problem at all ... but then I come back to check on him roughly 30 minutes later, and he's ditched the rat and is roaming around, still in "hunting" mode, clear on the other side of the tub. He did this twice with the first rat I offered him, so, thinking there might be something off about the rat itself (too big and difficult to swallow? too squishy and not fresh enough?), I thawed out a smaller, cleaner-looking one and tried it instead. Same thing - seizes and wraps it promptly, but then drops and completely ignores it after that.

The second time I blow-dried and re-offered this rat, I stuck around to observe what he was doing. After several minutes of constricting the rat, he released it from his mouth, but kept the rest of himself coiled around it. He then just sat with it like that for a while, head lifted up a bit, not really paying attention to the rat he was holding (honestly, he just looked like he was going "did I leave the stove on?"). Then he yawned, presumably to reset his jaw after the strike bite, and sniffed around for a bit, both at the rat and just his general surroundings. However, he never opened his mouth onto the rat at any point, the way he usually would when searching for a starting point to swallow from. He eventually uncoiled completelyCurrently, he's cruising around his tub again, completely ignoring the rat sitting next to him that he just "hunted" down earlier.

What do you guys make of this? There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with his ability to sense the rat's smell or temperature, since he's striking reasonably accurately. It doesn't seem like he's just not hungry, otherwise I don't think he would bother grabbing the rat in the first place. His movements don't look sluggish or abnormal, so he shouldn't be having any trouble orienting himself. I've given up on further feeding attempts for tonight, and will probably try again Monday or Tuesday night, but honestly I'm a little stumped right now.

Might be going into shed cycle. Snakes know before we see any signs of it, fyi. I wouldn't lose sleep over it...watch & wait a few days, bet you see some
cloudiness. Don't offer food to snakes in shed. (some will eat anyway, many won't) Just wait until he's done shedding...he won't starve...& offer when he
again seems ready for food. (lying in wait in the evening hours, peeking out of his hide) Don't keep offering more than once per week in any event, as it
only stresses a snake & makes them less likely to eat.

The shed cycle is a good thought, except that he JUST finished shedding earlier this week, around Monday. I offered today both because it was due according to his 7-day schedule, and because I was seeing those signs of readiness, namely sitting in wait with his head poking slightly raised out of his hide. You do make a good point about making a feeding attempt only once per week though, and that is what I intend to do.

It's unusual but I've seen snakes do a quick turn into another shed shortly after completing one. Sometimes it's because they're trying to heal from something.
And maybe it's NOT that he's going into a shed at all.

How has his "output" been?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's unusual but I've seen snakes do a quick turn into another shed shortly after completing one. Sometimes it's because they're trying to heal from something.

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That's certainly interesting! I didn't know that was possible. Iggy hasn't had any kind of injury to heal from, as far as I know. His very first shed with me was messy, but ultimately completed with some assistance (warm water soak and gently wiping off the stuck shed with a damp towel). The shed from last week was his second shed with me, coming a little over a month after his first shed. It went much better in that he got the majority of it off in one piece this time, but there was a patch under his neck and chin that he still needed help with, so that wipe-down took place 5 days ago.

Oops, didn't see your additional question. He's usually been pooping every 1-2 weeks. The last time he pooped was 1/7/19, so 11 days ago. It is notable that his last meal 7 days ago was a bit on the larger size. Also, I have not yet seen any pee/urates from him this week.

Well, if his most recent meal was somewhat larger than usual, that's probably "it" right there...he's simply still digesting it.

You won't necessarily see any "output" after every meal, but if you hadn't seen any for quite a few meals, that could have been another possible explanation.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Well, if his most recent meal was somewhat larger than usual, that's probably "it" right there...he's simply still digesting it.

You won't necessarily see any "output" after every meal, but if you hadn't seen any for quite a few meals, that could have been another possible explanation.

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I hope you're right, and it does make sense. I'm not seeing any "sausage butt" and it hasn't been that long, so I'm not too worried about constipation/obstruction just yet. Do you reckon I should step down a bit in prey size, in case it's currently too big for him to digest easily? He's on medium-sized rat fuzzies and they approximately match the width of the thickest part of his body, but I do notice that he has to "wrestle" a lot more to swallow them down compared to when he was on the smaller fuzzies.

Also, if constipation does end up being an issue, what would you recommend to help him out?

He doesn't sound constipated to me, so don't worry about a problem you don't have. He's just not that hungry. You don't need to step down his prey size...
just give him a few more days to digest it. You probably need to offer food (of the current size) about every 10 days, no big deal.

Constipation in snakes can be the result of poor hydration (not drinking enough water & humidity too low), so you can offer f/t that are thawed in water &
not dried (if he'll take them that way) or inject water into them. To help a snake that is constipated can be a soak or preferably a swim in the bathtub, as
that combines water and motion. (totally supervised of course) Snakes don't usually get constipated, or if they do, it can also be the result of having formed
marble-sized urate stones (also called "cloacaliths") that literally get stuck blocking their cloaca, and once those are removed, you wanna duck. ;) You'll
probably know if your snake has a urate stone...you can gently feel around the area just above their cloaca...they feel like a marble has lodged there. Best
to see a vet for help with this issue.

I’ve got an albino female that will strike and constrict, and when they rat is dead, she will release it and cruise the tub for several minutes, every once in a while sniffing the rat then continuing to cruise around, only to start eating when I’ve just about figured she was the rare animal (besides humans) that kill for sport!

About two months after I got my banana BP I had the same thing happen. She was out looking hungry and was very eager to strike at the rat... but after a few minutes she would drop the rat and look at me expecting another rat to fly into the cage. I left the rat overnight and she never ate it.

The next week the exact same thing happened. Eager to strike but wouldn't eat. I left the rat in the cage again and two hours later it was gone, she finally decided to eat.

After that everything went back to normal, late night feeding. She would strike and eat right away. I have no idea why she did that.. but it passed and I've had no issues since.

All that said... hopefully it's the same deal with you and things will go back to normal soon.

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Originally Posted by SquirmyPug

About two months after I got my banana BP I had the same thing happen. She was out looking hungry and was very eager to strike at the rat... but after a few minutes she would drop the rat and look at me expecting another rat to fly into the cage. I left the rat overnight and she never ate it.

The next week the exact same thing happened. Eager to strike but wouldn't eat. I left the rat in the cage again and two hours later it was gone, she finally decided to eat.

After that everything went back to normal, late night feeding. She would strike and eat right away. I have no idea why she did that.. but it passed and I've had no issues since.

All that said... hopefully it's the same deal with you and things will go back to normal soon.

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I wonder if snakes get "hormonal" or "growing pains"? :confusd: Years back the unwanted yearling BCI that I took in went thru a phase for about 2 mos. where she was
like that, & it's really weird for a BCI to NOT want to eat. At the time I chalked it up to stress from all she'd been thru before I got her (multiple homes, each time
given up because of her "aggressive" biting). She seemed to outgrow whatever it was after that, no further issues. (she also totally calmed down with me & gave
up biting altogether) All we can do sometimes is to "read between the lines". :snake:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He doesn't sound constipated to me, so don't worry about a problem you don't have.

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Hahaha, you got me there. I've chilled out after reading the responses here and having a night to sleep on it, but yesterday my mind was going full throttle when it came to excessive/irrational worries. At some point I even started fixating on whether he was "moving funny" and wondering if I'd somehow pinched a nerve or broken a bone when I was handling him on Monday to remove the stuck shed under his chin. Or if he'd gotten brain damage from last weekend's Provent-A-Mite treatment and suddenly forgotten how to eat! (Don't worry, I've talked myself out of all of these, but it was only getting increasingly stupid from there.)

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Originally Posted by bhsurf4

I’ve got an albino female that will strike and constrict, and when they rat is dead, she will release it and cruise the tub for several minutes, every once in a while sniffing the rat then continuing to cruise around, only to start eating when I’ve just about figured she was the rare animal (besides humans) that kill for sport!

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Oh man, she sounds like a character! Iggy never came back to the rat even after giving him a couple hours total; I would have left the rat overnight just to see if he eventually took it, but I had to leave and won't be back until the end of the weekend, and that would be very nasty to return to if he never ended up eating it.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Hahaha, you got me there. I've chilled out after reading the responses here and having a night to sleep on it, but yesterday my mind was going full throttle when it came to excessive/irrational worries. At some point I even started fixating on whether he was "moving funny" and wondering if I'd somehow pinched a nerve or broken a bone when I was handling him on Monday to remove the stuck shed under his chin. Or if he'd gotten brain damage from last weekend's Provent-A-Mite treatment and suddenly forgotten how to eat! (Don't worry, I've talked myself out of all of these, but it was only getting increasingly stupid from there.)

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My favorite (& very vintage) note-paper has a cartoon of a snake that is stiff as an arrow, balanced on top of a rock, & the caption says "Relax!" :D

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Originally Posted by SquirmyPug

About two months after I got my banana BP I had the same thing happen. She was out looking hungry and was very eager to strike at the rat... but after a few minutes she would drop the rat and look at me expecting another rat to fly into the cage. I left the rat overnight and she never ate it.

The next week the exact same thing happened. Eager to strike but wouldn't eat. I left the rat in the cage again and two hours later it was gone, she finally decided to eat.

After that everything went back to normal, late night feeding. She would strike and eat right away. I have no idea why she did that.. but it passed and I've had no issues since.

All that said... hopefully it's the same deal with you and things will go back to normal soon.

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That sounds exactly like what Iggy did! Same expectant look for a second rat and everything ... but just ditched the second rat anyway when it came. I guess we'll see if he follows suit next week like your BP did. Here's to hoping!

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

My favorite (& very vintage) note-paper has a cartoon of a snake that is stiff as an arrow, balanced on top of a rock, & the caption says "Relax!" :D

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Pfft, I need this cartoon taped to my wall.

Hmm ... it's now been 10 days since he last ate, and 3 -- well, heading into 4 -- days since the last feeding attempt. Still no poop yet, and still just hiding in his rock cave all day and night. Do I try feeding him again around now, or give him a few more days?

I tend to leave a week or so in between 'attempts' ..




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Feed evenings ... low / dim light .
You know about the hairdryer trick but have you tried waiting until it's settled under a hide then dangle the warm rat/mouse in front of the hide entrance..


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Right then, I'll probably wait until Friday night. And yes, I always feed in the evening in low light (just enough so I can see what I'm doing). If he's in his hide, then I dangle the rat a couple inches in front of the hide. In the past, I've offered while he's cruising around too, and he has still taken it.

So the good news is, he ate normally last Thursday evening. The less encouraging news is, he still hasn't pooped, and as far as I can tell, I haven't seen any liquid urine or solid urates from him either. So last poop date was 1/7/19, and it's also been around 2 weeks since I've seen any pee from him. The latter is probably what's worrying me more, because I don't want to be late in detecting anything affecting kidney function. However, when I've brought him out to handle him, he's still been alert and moving normally, and I cannot feel any kind of obstruction at or near his vent. The vent area itself looks unremarkable. Still no sausage butt either, but I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for to assess whether he looks overall "bloated" or not. At this point, what should I do?

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

So the good news is, he ate normally last Thursday evening. The less encouraging news is, he still hasn't pooped, and as far as I can tell, I haven't seen any liquid urine or solid urates from him either. So last poop date was 1/7/19, and it's also been around 2 weeks since I've seen any pee from him. The latter is probably what's worrying me more, because I don't want to be late in detecting anything affecting kidney function. However, when I've brought him out to handle him, he's still been alert and moving normally, and I cannot feel any kind of obstruction at or near his vent. The vent area itself looks unremarkable. Still no sausage butt either, but I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for to assess whether he looks overall "bloated" or not. At this point, what should I do?

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Could be like my male he never poops or passes urates until he sheds


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I wouldn't worry at all about the not pooping. My BP poops on average maybe once every third meal, and that's when he's eating regularly. When he goes on his winter fasts, he can go a while without pooping, simply because he doesn't have anything in him. I don't really worry about constipation unless I can feel a blockage, or see a particularly large buildup near the "poop chute"

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

It is notable that his last meal 7 days ago was a bit on the larger size.

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I had a snake do the same thing once. I might have been wrong but at the time I wondered if it had hurt it's jaw biting a rat. Anyway I sized down to smaller size. I think I even tried large mice for a while. It eventually went back to small rats.

I would do a large mouse to see what happens. If it don't swallow the mouse than I'd say it might not be hungry. But usually when a snake isn't hungry it avoids the meal or just smells it and goes away from it.

Or maybe this is just a weird type of winter fast and it wants to keep them squeezing muscles in shape. :confusd:

Opps I missed where you said it ate last Thursday. Glad for that anyway.

Thanks for the reassurance, guys. It's good to know that it's not uncommon for BPs to go for several weeks without needing to pee or poop. I think I just need to keep reminding myself that I can't set my expectations for urine output and bowel movements based on what would be "normal" for humans, or even mammals in general.

Dropping in for another update on Iggy - still no poop or pee, but he once again ate promptly yesterday evening. He's looking pretty plump, but quite honestly I don't know if this is bulk he's expected to put on as he grows, or just a whole lot of poop, lol. At any rate, he looks reasonably comfortable and alert, so I'll give him until next week before worrying again about if any further intervention is needed. In the meantime, here are pics of him just for the heck of it! First one is from a couple weeks ago, second is from the day before yesterday. (No handling on feeding day, of course.)

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...bonus_iggy.jpg


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...130_201753.jpg

Great looking snek!

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Originally Posted by MR Snakes

Great looking snek!

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Heh, thank you!

I am exasperated but relieved to report that, after a whopping 37 days, Iggy FINALLY pooped. He continued eating like clockwork the whole time, so he had 4 or 5 feedings' worth saved up. At around the 30-day mark, his butt was looking very sausage-y so I tried the warm water soak, but all that came of it was some pee and three large urate blobs. It reassured me that his vent wasn't obstructed, but that was about it, and then it was back to the waiting game.

What finally worked? The "darn it, I JUST cleaned that!" technique. Yep, I decided it was time to deep-clean his enclosure anyway, so he went into a little temporary tub while everything was getting washed and wiped. Right as I picked him up to put him back in his fresh and pretty home, I got a funny feeling and eyed his rear end. Sure enough ... his tail started lifting up. I immediately pulled him back towards the temp tub, just barely in time for the tub to catch a powerful JET-STREAM of pee, followed immediately by a poop pile bigger than anything my DOG has ever produced. I don't think there's a moral to this story, but ... hooray?

Nothing like the magic of a clean cage to "inspire" a snake! I believe they'd laugh if only they could... :rofl: Congratulations!

He's a really pretty snake, btw...and he looks very healthy. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Nothing like the magic of a clean cage to "inspire" a snake! I believe they'd laugh if only they could... :rofl: Congratulations!

He's a really pretty snake, btw...and he looks very healthy. :gj:

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I'm sure they view a freshly cleaned cage as if it's a blank canvas, just waiting for some malodorous creativity ... :D

And thank you! He's pretty enough to be forgiven for a lot of the things he puts me through, haha.