I Need Help (Unplanned rescue)

Okay so I agreed to adopt a normal BP girl that's around 4-ish years old. Her old owner said she shed a month ago but she looks to have extremely wrinkled skin vertically, and she looks small and thin to me. I've seen other pictures of this snake where she looks. So much better. I'm honestly stumped. She has some blisters too on her rear underside. She was on aspen which we took out and put her on paper towels. Her heat's fine- so I'm fairly certain they aren't burns. I'm freaking out a little bit and I don't know what info I need to include here. She ate Sunday, apparently but she doesn't look it. I haven't gotten a chance to examine her blisters myself since I'm reluctant to move or disturb her. Her breathing seems much more labored than my boy BP, and he seems bigger than here despite the fact that he's 6 months old and she's apparently 4 years.

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense I'll try and get pictures in a second.

I was thinking about switching her over to coco fiber over aspen, since that's what I use for my boy. I live in Florida so the humidity is generally fine with just a waterdish. She's in a plastic tub too. I'm gonna double check her temps with my surface heat gun.

I just don't know what to do.

first thing's first: please quarantine the new animal away from your established one.

I don't really have... a separate area to quarantine her in. The opposite side of the room is the best I can do but if you think it's nessicary I will find another part of the house to keep her in for a few months. My family probably isn't going to be happy.

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

I don't really have... a separate area to quarantine her in. The opposite side of the room is the best I can do but if you think it's nessicary I will find another part of the house to keep her in for a few months. My family probably isn't going to be happy.

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it is extremely important you keep this animal away from the one you currently have, especially since it came from such an unfortunate situation and could be harboring an illness or disease. keeping the other animal in a separate room is the bare minimum to ensure the health of the animal you already have.

let your family know it is imperative to the health of both animals and it is only temporary (3mo.)

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

it is extremely important you keep this animal away from the one you currently have, especially since it came from such an unfortunate situation and could be harboring an illness or disease. keeping the other animal in a separate room is the bare minimum to ensure the health of the animal you already have.

let your family know it is imperative to the health of both animals and it is only temporary (3mo.)

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Tell your family to Chill. Tell them you are the Snake Whisperer and that what ^^^^^she^^^^^^ said is spot on.

Okay. I've placed her in a room on the opposite side of the house. Far from the air intake. It's a little colder in that room than I'd like but I'll work something out there. Next?

Edit: Do you think having her in the same room as my BP might have spread something already? She's only been in there for a couple of hours and I hadn't cross contaminated any of their equipment. The weren't near each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

Okay. I've placed her in a room on the opposite side of the house. Far from the air intake. It's a little colder in that room than I'd like but I'll work something out there. Next?

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good! next would be ensuring the husbandry is spot-on.

just some anecdotes from what i do when i have animals in quarantine (QT) as i currently have two:

• i never deal with my established collection and QT animals one the same day (with feeding day the exception, which i explain below); QT animals always get dealt with the day after dealing with the established collection. this gives you time to clean any tools or things like that.
• i feed all my animals on the same day; QT animals get fed last.
• keep the enclosure as simple as possible: paper towel substrate, water dish, two hides, one leaf vine to help with security.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

Edit: Do you think having her in the same room as my BP might have spread something already?

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only time will tell, but the less time they were near one another, the better.

1. How long have you had your ball python?

Two hours

2. How old (or how big) is your snake?

She is said to be 4 years old but I have my doubts about that. I'd say she's about 2.5' long.

3. Does it eat on a regular schedule?

She ate on sunday

4. How long since its last meal?

see above

5. What type/size prey is being offered?

rat pups according to her previous owner

6. How often do you offer food?

I plan to weekly

7. What type and size of enclosure does it live in?

it's about 2.5 x 1.5 feet long. Which seems overly large for her size.

8. What are you using as substrate? If it has depth, how deep is it?

Currently paper towels. She was on absen of about an inch. Plan to switch to coconut fiber.

9. What type of heating do you use?

UTT. Two mats sized for 10 gal enclosures to cover the larger tank size.

10. Do you use a thermostat to control temperatures?

Yes.

11. What do you use to measure/monitor temperatures?

Laser surface temp reader and a thermostat.

12. What are the surface and ambient temperatures in the enclosure?

surface is 70 on the cold end and 87 at the high end. I've bumped up the temperature as well as the room's thermostat.

13. What is the average humidity level?

I have no way of knowing. She didn't have humidity gauge and I'm in the process of acquiring one cause I assumed she would come.

14. How many and what type of hides does the snake have?

One is corkbark half and the other is... a shoe. I'm not sure about the shoe folks.


15. Is water readily available at all times?

Yes.

16. Does the snake live alone or does it share the enclosure with anything else?

Alone.

17. How often and for how long is the snake typically handled?

Infrequently but she's not shy.

18. Does the snake have any medical history (old injuries or illnesses)?

Not that I know of.

19. Do you have any other reptiles? Have you brought in any new reptiles recently?

She is the new one, I have one other BP boy and she's in a separate room.

20. Is there anything specific or unique about your situation that we should be aware of?

I think her container is too large for her size.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...377&height=671
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...377&height=671

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

20. Is there anything specific or unique about your situation that we should be aware of?

I think her container is too large for her size.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...377&height=671
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...377&height=671

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i agree that is very large enclosure for such a small thing. i recommend a 12qt plastic storage tub or smaller.

okay, that is the smallest ~4 year old ball python female i've ever seen... she does not look too terribly thin/skinny tho, so that's a good sign. she does, however, look incredibly dehydrated to me. make sure your humidity is ~60%.

have you weighed her yet?

I haven't yet. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking her enclosure is way too big. The closest thing I have to that right now is a 20 qt sterelite container that I can convert into a cage. Which I think will work better than what's she's in now and at least let me quarantine her better. It'll also be easier to keep humidity up in a smaller space. I'll set to washing the container and drilling the holes right now. (I was using this to hold some supplies for my tarantulas, just some empty never used breeding boxes and the like.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

I haven't yet. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking her enclosure is way too big. The closest thing I have to that right now is a 20 qt sterelite container that I can convert into a cage. Which I think will work better than what's she's in now and at least let me quarantine her better. It'll also be easier to keep humidity up in a smaller space. I'll set to washing the container and drilling the holes right now. (I was using this to hold some supplies for my tarantulas, just some empty never used breeding boxes and the like.)

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sounds like a plan! keep us posted. :gj:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...736&height=415

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...736&height=415

okay this is the 20 qt sterelite container I have here. would that be okay or do I need something larger/smaller.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...736&height=415

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...736&height=415

okay this is the 20 qt sterelite container I have here. would that be okay or do I need something larger/smaller.

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my only concern is that, with so much height, it might be hard to heat/regulate temperatures. besides that, it's definitely the right step!

Would it be better if I placed it on it's side?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

Would it be better if I placed it on it's side?

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if you can make it work, absolutely! just be sure the tub is escape-proof!

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...736&height=415https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...377&height=671

She seems to be inquisitively poking around now. I'd put some cover in but I want to clean it first and I wanted to get her into a sterile environment asap. They had the thermometer probe taped to the BOTTOM of the heat mat outside the tank. OTL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

They had the thermometer probe taped to the BOTTOM of the heat mat outside the tank. OTL.

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the thermostat probe should not be in the enclosure; the thermometer probe can be inside, however.

the thermometer probe and thermostat probe placement should look like this:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...9edbeefb34.jpg

Ah! Gotcha! I use a rheostat with my other so I'm new to the thermostats.

Okay since husbandry is out of the way right now (I just need to add a thermometer/humidity gauge tomorrow after the shops open). She's got stuck shed and also what looks like a scratch from trying to rub against something to get the shed off. I'm leaving her in a high-er humidity enclosure for now and hoping it might loosen enough for her to get it off on her own since I don't want to cause her any more pain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

1. How long have you had your ball python?

Two hours

2. How old (or how big) is your snake?

She is said to be 4 years old but I have my doubts about that. I'd say she's about 2.5' long.

3. Does it eat on a regular schedule?

She ate on sunday

4. How long since its last meal?

see above

5. What type/size prey is being offered?

rat pups according to her previous owner

6. How often do you offer food?

I plan to weekly

7. What type and size of enclosure does it live in?

it's about 2.5 x 1.5 feet long. Which seems overly large for her size.

8. What are you using as substrate? If it has depth, how deep is it?

Currently paper towels. She was on absen of about an inch. Plan to switch to coconut fiber.

9. What type of heating do you use?

UTT. Two mats sized for 10 gal enclosures to cover the larger tank size.

10. Do you use a thermostat to control temperatures?

Yes.

11. What do you use to measure/monitor temperatures?

Laser surface temp reader and a thermostat.

12. What are the surface and ambient temperatures in the enclosure?

surface is 70 on the cold end and 87 at the high end. I've bumped up the temperature as well as the room's thermostat.

13. What is the average humidity level?

I have no way of knowing. She didn't have humidity gauge and I'm in the process of acquiring one cause I assumed she would come.

14. How many and what type of hides does the snake have?

One is corkbark half and the other is... a shoe. I'm not sure about the shoe folks.


15. Is water readily available at all times?

Yes.

16. Does the snake live alone or does it share the enclosure with anything else?

Alone.

17. How often and for how long is the snake typically handled?

Infrequently but she's not shy.

18. Does the snake have any medical history (old injuries or illnesses)?

Not that I know of.

19. Do you have any other reptiles? Have you brought in any new reptiles recently?

She is the new one, I have one other BP boy and she's in a separate room.

20. Is there anything specific or unique about your situation that we should be aware of?

I think her container is too large for her size.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...377&height=671
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...377&height=671

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Glad to see you are getting things dialed in. But I think you might have a first with one of your other BP's!

Sounds like you’re getting everything dialed in. The only observation I can make on size is that if the previous owner was subsistence feeding (meaning just enough to maintain life), that will significantly stunt their growth. When I got Eli, my adult normal bp, he was 2 years old but wasn’t as large as my current yearlings and very thin and weak. His prior owner didn’t want a 6’ monster snake, so she fed him “lightly” to keep him small. :disbelief He is now better than three feet long, too wiggly to measure very well, and been with me for 26 years.

As for breathing issues and blisters, I’d let her settle for a bit to calm down (a day or so) then try to gently examine her. You may need a vet visit if it appears she has a respiratory infection and to determine what the blisters may be caused by. A clean environment and correct husbandry can go a long way towards improved health.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

She's got stuck shed and also what looks like a scratch from trying to rub against something to get the shed off. I'm leaving her in a high-er humidity enclosure for now and hoping it might loosen enough for her to get it off on her own since I don't want to cause her any more pain.

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just keep the humidity high and leave them be.

Okay so I've been keeping her humidity high. She fed on a f/t rat pup for me on last Saturday and today. I think she's looking better. Her scales are a little sleeker (less porcupine like) and she looks glossier. She's still wrinkly which I think is because she's very. Very underweight for how old she is. She's eating though, so I want to see if I can just feed her back to health.

She was being given freezer burned mice pinkies for her food. Like. That's it. She's taken to the fresher thawed rats with gusto. I'm gonna move her up to small rats on her next meal because she's woofing these down and I want to get some good nutrition in her.

She still has 2 largish oval blisters on one side near her tail end. I haven't lanced them or anything because I've been wanting to leave her alone. (Plus I had to go out of town for 5 days.) I'm hoping those might shed out without me having to do anything.

Her breathing doesn't seem as labored as it was when I got her. Maybe that's the higher humidity helping her or the fact that she was starving before I took her. IDK.

TL;DR I think she's on the up and up.

I wouldn't lance any blisters without her being on antibiotics. Still probably not a good idea. Snakes that have been chronically starved can end up with permanent
skin damage (or very slow to improve), sometimes with fluid under the skin. Vet visit to very experienced herp-vet would be your best bet. Might also ask about
supplementation with Vit C...that has been discussed here in a couple past threads with similarly rescued snakes. For the moment, just work on building up her
health with decent food.

Just from the pictures she looks too small to eat small rats. Have you weighed her yet? Glad to hear things seem to be improving.

When I got my BP she was two years old and only around 240 grams. Once they start getting what they need they grow fast. I've had her about 4.5 months and she's around 700 grams now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I wouldn't lance any blisters without her being on antibiotics. Still probably not a good idea. Snakes that have been chronically starved can end up with permanent
skin damage (or very slow to improve), sometimes with fluid under the skin. Vet visit to very experienced herp-vet would be your best bet. Might also ask about
supplementation with Vit C...that has been discussed here in a couple past threads with similarly rescued snakes. For the moment, just work on building up her
health with decent food.

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Do you have any links to other threads with some information on starved snakes and the problems they face? Reading through some of those might clear things up for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

Do you have any links to other threads with some information on starved snakes and the problems they face? Reading through some of those might clear things up for me.

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I would send Deborah a PM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razzledazzy

Do you have any links to other threads with some information on starved snakes and the problems they face? Reading through some of those might clear things up for me.

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As a matter of fact, this one (kinda long) & I think somewhere in this thread was the reference to a much older thread on the Vit C question.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-back-on-track

Actually, as far as blisters, I wouldn't be in any hurry to have her on antibiotics either (to deal w/ blisters)...let her body get get better nutrition & hydration
going first, before you throw any sort of medications into the mix *as long as there's no critical need*. When in doubt with snakes, easy does it- be patient
with their healing. Meds add their own kind of strain on a snake's body...I've seen bad outcomes with overly-vigorous veterinary interventions, no matter how
well-meaning they were.

OKAY. SO. IT'S 3AM BEAR WITH ME. She went into blue about 4 days ago and then I noticed her rubbing her nose on her paper towel substrate earlier tonight. She went in for it and shed almost completely in one piece! She has some stuck to her tail and some stuck to the top of her head I'm gonna investigate that tomorrow when MY eyes are working right to see if they've cleared off. I wanted to stay up in case she had like. Sepsis problems where her skin came off with her shed or something? I don't know man I've been worrying to hell and back since I can't afford a vet visit right now.

She's been eating every Saturday since I've gotten her, and never once refused. I'm hoping she feels up to eating tomorrow.

When she shed... some of the blisters seemed to leak a clear fluid. There were also a few- they look like whorls of scars? Where her shed seemed to have trouble. There's a few spots of blood on her paper towel that seem to come from scars coming off or healing. None of the blood spots on the towel are larger than like, a sesame seed.

Since she's eating and not averse to being touched when I have to shift her around and clean her paper towels or change her water (like picking her up and moving her) so I'm not thinking she's critically in need... I mean I may be completely wrong, bas long as nothing drastically changes after this shed then she seems to be doing fine. Her blisters and such only seem to be bothering ME lol.

She also smelled like, awful when I got her. Like when you walk into a reptile shop? But very concentrated. It's lessened a lot since I put her in a sterile environment hopefully it fades with this shed.

I'm gonna lower her humidity a little. I've been keeping it high eighties or above for her shed/dehydration. I don't want to throw a respitory issue on top of whatever she already has going on. I still need to read through that thread about snakes with poor nutrition since I had a trip that took me out of town for a week.

4am edit: she shed her eyecaps! Im so proud of her. Its very late and im sleepy but she peed so i had to clean it. Didnt want her laying in pee in her brand new coat.😥

Im just so glad she seems to be okay and her shed went well

Sounds like she's slowly improving...it will take time for sure. It's good that you didn't have more than a few specks of blood from the shed process, and that she
did nearly a full shed on her own is great! Take a bow, both of you! ;) Not surprising about blisters leaking some either. So glad she's been eating!

Not all reptile shops stink...only the dirty ones, the ones where they tease & mishandle snakes into musking, the ones that should be out of business... I have
rescued just such a snake (that stunk) many years ago and yes, shedding, clean caging & time will help the "smell" go away completely. :gj:

Good luck, thanks for the update...keeping you & this snake in our good thoughts! :)

She ate a rat pup with no problems! I could tell some of her blisters continued to leak, but she does look much better after the shed. The liquid from the blisters is still clear. As long as she's eating. I'm gonna just continue keeping her in a clean environment.

Sorry to necro the thread but this same snake is now having problems two years on. She recovered amazingly well with food and care! The blisters went away and things were looking great but in the past month the blistery things have come back with a vengance. We're going to be taking her to a herp vet ASAP but in the mean time if anyone has any tips or anything we'd appreciate it. The only thing we can think of is she might have had a whole body stuck shed we didn't even know about or it's something to do with her past malnutrition.

This is her about a year ago looking fine!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...102_222608.png

This is her about a month ago, then her tonight. You can see the problem seems to be getting worse.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...428_003744.png
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...512_000830.png

I already consulted with a zookeeper I know that works herps to doublecheck her tank set-up, and she agrees it's likely due to something from her history and not so much her environment considering my other ball is getting the same care and is totally fine.

No need for apology- we love updates to threads- always wonder "what ever happened to...?"

Your best bet is to get her to an experienced herp vet- how sad that this issue returned, especially after so long & so much improvement. I hope you'll update us again & I really hope she gets healthy again once & for all. I'm very curious as to what's causing this- I've never dealt with anything like this, & that's a huge change from the earlier photo.

okay, it's been a few more days and she's looking much the same. only she has a few beads of clear liquid coming out of a few of the blistery things now. the nearest non-emergency apt with a herp vet we could get was this coming tuesday. it's saturday right now and my mom is considering whether we should drive her down to the emergency small animal hospital down in gainsville (a like 4 hour drive) i think the drive would be too stressful. she hasn't shed like we hoped she might, but she does still move around in her hide every so often. any insight would be appreciated.